Mother.

[_caesar_]

Hi All,

SWIM has had a massive interest in the psychedelic state since his early teens, with experimentation reinforced by PIHKAL bought soon after its publication.

SWIM never hides anything to his mother and never has done. SWIM is in his late 20s. SWIM has always discussed altered states with his mother since his teens - who never really discouraged them, only abuse of any kind.

SWIM has considered how much he wanted to share many of these states with his mother.

SWIM had recently delved into RC's, and the first tested was 2-ci, the experiance was truely enjoyable. it was decided by SWIM and his partner that this would be suitable for SWIMS mother.

SWIMs mother (57 Years) has agreed to test some with SWIM and his beloved.

SWIM wants to know peoples opinions on this (not that it will change his opinion on what should be done.)

SWIM would also like to hear of know any other experiances of pet monkies mothers etc.

SWIM will post all the details.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Finde ich toll, gratulation

[Jatelka]

SWIJ thinks it is marvellous (and very brave) for SWIY to be planning a journey of this kind with their mother. It says a lot for their relationship that they could contemplate this: She knows that there is far too much "baggage" for her to even think about such an undertaking with her mother.

SWIJ has taken LSD with her little sister (it was M's first time) and she can honestly say that, although the anticipation and run-up to the event was initially very anxiety provoking it has added an astonishing new dimension to their relationship, and has provided them with a unique bond that could not have been created otherwise.

SWIY does not say what experience (if any) mother has with psychedelics. She assumes mother will research 2CI thoroughly before experimenting.

In many ways SWIJ thinks 2CI is a perfect "first choice": It has a lightness and joy of feeling, with little in the way of anxiety or paranoia (providing the set and setting are right). At roughly six hours the time scale is manageable also. Some do find the body load tricky to deal with though.

SWIY is obviously comfortable in their relationship with their mother to consider this in the first place. Just carry the love, respect and comfort you feel with her into the experience and SWIJ imagines SWIY will be fine.

One thing else: Will SWIY's girl be present also? Are she and your mother also completely comfortable and non-judgemental with each other? That is something else that needs to be borne in mind.

Let us know how it goes.

[_caesar_]

Thanks for the input and your experiances

SWIMS mother has no experiance with psychedelics, though in a way SWIMS think's it won't be alien to her.

As far as research - she'll trust her sons word and has confidence in it.

SWIMS girl will be present and all relationships are close.

Keep you posted.

[Jatelka]

Thanks for feedback. SWIJ is concerned re SWIY's statement that "she'll trust her sons word and has confidence in it". This is comforting in some ways and alarming in others.

There is NO excuse for researching for oneself. Psychedelics can be alarming. The first time SWIJ took LSD (age 15) she went on other peoples word, having done no research for herself: The result, an astonishingly freaked out bunny.

At the very least SWIY's mother should visit the erowid 2CI vault and read some trip reports: This way she is taking an active part in her choice/not to indulge, otherwise the decision seems kind of passive (which for SWIJ is always a very bad thing)

Although 2CI is generally regarded as "mild", bad trips can result (even for experienced psychonauts) see J's post here...

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...79&postcount=6

J would like to stress that the feelings re body image engendered by this trip were some of THE most upsetting hallucinations she has ever experienced. Despite years of experience with psychedelics there were some very dicey moments, which took a lot to get through, and even more to integrate.

She is glad that mother and girls relationship is strong: The idea of tripping with her mother-in-law is even scarier than that of tripping with her mother!

[podge]

swim wishes caeser good luck in this venture....it would be very liberating to trip with a family member swim would imagine.but swim would agree with jatelka ....swiys mother should do some independant research just to make sure she really wants to go through with this.

[nanobrain]

it was not until a certain age that i realised that a radical challange to the reality construct of an older nonuser of psychs (parent), while could prove to be 'enlightening' may not be a beneficial or even an ethical thing to do to said person.

this after much consideration.

[Nagognog2]

After being howled at by his mother about all the little, brown vials in the freezer, Bongo suggested to his mom that she try some and determine if it (LSD) was as dangerous as the media scare-stories she was influenced by. She agreed to do so.

She was given 75mcg. of Sandoz. Bongo didn't want to scare her - too much (evil Bongo-mode). And she sat in her favorite chair all night listening to her favorite records and seeing all the sparkling lights of the town down below.

Her only negative remark is that she wished she'd taken more. This was offered, but declined. She didn't bitch about the little, brown vials being in the freezer again.

[snapper]

There are many people out there that should never touch psychedelics. In fact, SWIM does not know ANYONE in SWIMs circle who does not shun them or is too emotionally fragile to handle them without the potential for problems. SWIM has always found it strange that SWIM is the only experimenter SWIM knows, but then again, SWIM has a very limited social group and is generally a hermit.. Good thing SWIM likes to trip alone.
It's nice to hear that some have that kind of relationship with their family. SWIM has learned to get along with mom, but that's about where it stands.
SWIM wishes that there were little brown bottles of sandoz in SWIMs freezer. All that's there last time SWIM checked were old frozen pizzas and an ice cube tray.

Snapper

[nanobrain]

^look harder, Sandoz vials tend to be behind the cobwebs back in that there converted missile silo...

[_caesar_]

Originally Posted by jatelka

Thanks for feedback. SWIJ is concerned re SWIY's statement that "she'll trust her sons word and has confidence in it". This is comforting in some ways and alarming in others.

Originally Posted by podge

swiys mother should do some independant research just to make sure she really wants to go through with this.

SWIMS mother will do some research, but because she's not internet savvy it wont be on her own. SWIM understands that research is important, but knowledge can be gained from other sources, SWIM has in the past, many times discussed altered states and layers of conscience with SWIMS mother and leading up to this voyage there will be a lot more dialogue.

SWIM wouldn’t be considering this only that he knows it will be a good thing, SWIMS major concern is the first hour or so as the altered state takes effect.

[_caesar_]

Originally Posted by nanobrain

it was not until a certain age that i realised that a radical challange to the reality construct of an older nonuser of psychs (parent), while could prove to be 'enlightening' may not be a beneficial or even an ethical thing to do to said person.

this after much consideration.

Nanobrain, SWIM does understand where you are coming from, but in this case he really does believe that this is indeed most ethically acceptable, it may be wrong not to do down this path.

Why should SWIM with this knowledge let it not pass to one that is so close?

SWIM realizes that there are some risks, these are all been taken into account as of course this is a major event that may well be life/conscience/spiritually changing/developing on some level. Let’s all just hope that it is beneficial

[illuminati boy]

While SWIIB would not recommend anyone break any rules; in a true hypothetical, SWIIB would probably be inclined to recommend a low dose of mushrooms as a first entry into the world of psychedelic compounds. While 2C-I may be non-threatening to many, it in no way has the degree of real world safety testing that mushrooms have had over the millennia.

Any of the so called ‘research chemicals’ (i.e. read ‘little known chemicals’) could present risks to physical safety that would likely not be present with some of the better understood agents that have psychedelic effects. Further, depending on SWIM’s mother’s physical health situation, stimulation (however mild) might be ill advised.

As a general rule SWIIB would probably council against anyone distributing any so called ‘research chemical’ to any person not moderately well educated on theoretical psychopharmacology or experientially familiar with psychedelic drug effects. Little known drug + little theoretical knowledge + 0 experience is probably ≠ to a predictably good outcome.

Whatever course SWIM and SWIM’s mother plot, one hopes it goes well.

I B

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good advice

[fatal]

swim thinks that 2C-I or 2C-B are perfect introductory psychedelis. 2C-I being the less powerful of the two. morning glory seeds are also but they do make some peple suffer terribly. mushrooms seem that they are actuallly a little much for some. 2C-I is underwhelming and even at unreasonable doses it doesnt get too scary.

[Nagognog2]

Bongo would agree that better known and researched psychedelics such as psilocybin, and even LSD, would be better in this situation. Picture this:

"Here ya go, Mum! Here is a chemical that is called a research chemical because we don't really know a lot about it! It probably might be sort of safe to experiment with!"

Or:

"Here Mum. Here is the well-known LSD (or psilocybin) that countless people have experienced and written about afterwards!"

Set is part of set and setting. Giving Mum a unknown, but for a brief time, chemical could raise the level of anxiety for both Mum and her sitter.

[nanobrain]

mum, have sum of this here god transistor analog and pls disregard the disheveled appeaence of the dosing administrator, that harmless combo of a pentan-v-phenone and acacialoids may have contributed to the mismatching of ocular dilation and static electricity emanations are frying the electronic equipment, but hey - should be alright as people on the internet said research chemicals are as safe as RC Cola! /[darkasm]

what i meant was that if a parent has been busily creating his life and worldview in accordance with apriori mistaken principles, when the realisation of the illusory nature of years spent in vain become unsuppressable under the inflence of a particular catalyst, the end result may be acute and lasting depression or worse - when you realise all you gone and done w/your life was based on a particular version of a consensual hallucination we call reality, propageted and reinforced by the mass media / mores / trends of the time - and you are now too old to do anything about it....

[snapper]

SWIM has used psychedelics all SWIMs life and is still trapped in that mass hallucination called reality slaving away for the man just to keep food in SWIMs stomach and drugs in SWIMs brain. This has not helped SWIM escape this reality at all, but has taught SWIM not to take it at all seriously. Such revelations can be difficult, but are necessary to one's maturation and evolution as a human being, as opposed to the herds of mindless sell outs which encrust this planet like barnacles on a sea cliff and are too cowardly and weak to face the truth. The depression will pass, but the wisdom will not.

Snapper

Reputation Comments on this post:

I agree with his views.

[_caesar_]

Thanks to everyone who has replied to this post so far.

It’s obvious from what I have read from many of the posts on this forum and especially now from the replies to this thread that there are vast differences in peoples opinions on attitudes to the psychedelic compounds and the administration of said compounds to oneself and others.

I’ve always known this, this is one of the reasons we have prohibition of sorts.

But there have been some new insights gained for me here.

I find it rather disappointing that some contributors here suggest an air of superiority; that SWIM is a reckless kid who enjoys a 'trip' and thinks it would be ‘cool’ to give some to SWIMS mom. It’s great to have that pharmachemical understanding that many do on these forums, but it does not in my opinion give them a right to be smug, nor to dictate to others that a lack of deep pharmacological knowledge forbids one from their experimentation with and travels to other states of consciousness.


I don’t have a deep understanding of chemistry nor psychopharmacology, neither do most users who have used LSD nor had the Neanderthal man on psilocybin.


SWIMS had a very close relationship with his mother and a very deep understanding of her, and I suppose her psyche. And this is why mushrooms would never be suitable; they would be too scary for one.

This is also why after SWIMS recent discovery of 2-CI SWIM now feels SWIM has found something that is suitable and hopefully beneficial.

Thanks again all.

_caesar_

[Nagognog2]

Nano:

What you describe is a possibility with psychedelics at any stage of one's life - regardless of their status as a parent. Even a teenager can trip into the land of unrelenting psychoanalysis and have a breakdown. And teenagers tend to believe they are immortal and timeless, so this can cause a psychic trainwreck just as profoundly as a 70 year old can have. It's always a roll of the dice.

So I agree with you. Mother could flip her wig. But mother could, and likely would, be just fine and perhaps be the better for the experience. But the son might, on the other hand, wind up in the land of dragons and man-eating accountants.

[glogga]

SWIM never hides anything to his mother and never has done. SWIM is in his late 20s. SWIM has always discussed altered states with his mother since his teens - who never really discouraged them, only abuse of any kind.

SWIM has considered how much he wanted to share many of these states with his mother.

SWIM had recently delved into RC's, and the first tested was 2-ci, the experiance was truely enjoyable. it was decided by SWIM and his partner that this would be suitable for SWIMS mother.

SWIMs mother (57 Years) has agreed to test some with SWIM and his beloved.

SWIM wants to know peoples opinions on this (not that it will change his opinion on what should be done.)

I wish you the best of luck. I wish my parents were so open minded. You should keep in mind though, that research chemicals are experimental, and at 57 years, your mother may be a little bit more negatively affected and put off by any 'body load' a research chemical might cause. Keep in mind when you use research chemicals, you are a guini pig.

[Beeker]

SWIMS mom was so brainwashed by the drug war that she went into a sort of psychosis when SWIM mentioned pot way back when.

SWIM travels alone; It wouldn't have mattered.

[nanobrain]

one of my deepest regrets is not giving my granfather LSD as as he approached Death.

[Alicia]

Originally Posted by nanobrain

one of my deepest regrets is not giving my granfather LSD as as he approached Death.

Thats only a good thing on set and setting thou, I know what you mean it can help people come to terms with there death. but on the other hand it can make there last moments even more unbearable and scary. of course with the right education it may be different. just my thought.. swia herself would prefer a nice fat joint and a i.m dose of ketamine.. before she fades away into the abyss

[nanobrain]

jeez-zus, in no way did i intend to imply that i wanted to blast granpa out of his skull prior to his appointment with his maker....best left at that.

[Alicia]

Originally Posted by nanobrain

jeez-zus, in no way did i intend to imply that i wanted to blast granpa out of his skull prior to his appointment with his maker....best left at that.

lol, I like your choice in words. i wasn't implying that. I know that lsd and psilocybin has been considered towards terminal cancer patients as way of helping them cum to terms with there aspects of dying. i did not mean any disrespect.