Edgy as hell, but why?

[hh339]

I'm quite new to pharmacology, but I know there are some educated persons here that may be able to answer my question and guide me in the right direction. Here it goes...

SWIM has always been extremely tense and edgy, like walking on egg-shells really. Fear would be a good word for it, as would anxeity. He's got nothing in particular to afraid of though, and the feelings are mostly present in the body and not in the mind, if that makes any sense. He's quite shaky. He has used benzodiazepines and alcohol (not at the same time), with very good relief and relaxation as a result.
Now since he is in a different position in life where he can/will no longer use benzos, and doesn't want to drink a lot of alcohol, I wonder what other alternatives there are for him, as well as I am very interested in the pharmacology behind this condition.
The drugs that has helped all affect the GABA receptors in the brain, but which neurotransmittors could be responsible for these unwelcome feelings? Norepinephrine? If so, what can be done to reduce it? Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

[bewilderment]

It sounds like generalized anxiety disorder. Take a look at this and see if it fits your symptoms:


"Physical manifestations of generalized anxiety may include headaches, trembling, twitching, irritability, frustration, and inability to concentrate. Sleep disturbances may also occur. Elements of social phobia and/or panic may sometimes be present, such as high levels of self-consciousness in some situations, and fear of not being able to escape from enclosed spaces.

It is also common, but not universal, for people with generalized anxiety to experience other problems, such as a quickness to startle from it, a lack of ability to fully relax, and the propensity to be in a state of constant motion. It is difficult for some people with generalized anxiety to settle down enough to have a quiet, reflective time where they can calm down, relax, and feel some peace and tranquility. Strategies to peacefully calm down and relax are one part in overcoming this problem.

Normal life stresses aggravate generalized anxiety. The person who typically performs well at work and receives a sense of accomplishment from it, all of a sudden finds that work has become drudgery. If work is perceived as a negative environment, and the person no longer feels fulfilled, then considerable worry takes place over these situations. As a result, the anticipatory anxiety about going to work can become quite strong.

Generalized anxiety has been shown to respond best to cognitive-behavioral therapy, an active therapy that involves more than just talking to a therapist. In CBT, the person gradually learns to see situations and problems in a different perspective and learns the methods and techniques to use to alleviate and reduce anxiety. Sometimes medication is a helpful adjunct to therapy, but for many people it is not necessary. Research indicates that generalized anxiety is fully treatable and can be successfully overcome over the course of about three to four months if the person is motivated and works toward recovery."
From: http://www.anxietynetwork.com/gawhat.html

If it is GAD, then this is the current theory on what neurotransmitters are involved:

"GAD is associated with irregular levels of neurotransmitters in the brain. Neurotransmitters are chemicals that carry signals across nerve endings. Neurotransmitters that seem to involve anxiety include norepinephrine, GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid), and serotonin.

Norepinephrine is concentrated in the locus ceruleus (nerve cluster that lies near the brain’s fourth ventricle). Increased activity in the locus ceruleus is associated with anxiety, and decreased activity in the locus ceruleus diminishes anxiety. Increased levels of GABA and serotonin seem to reduce anxiety. All of these neurotransmitters interact during heightened anxiety.

The psychodynamic theory of psychology sees anxiety as an alerting mechanism that arises when our unconscious motivations clash with the constraints of our conscious mind. This conflict is intensified in people with GAD. Behavioral theory holds that anxiety results from not knowing how to behave in a given situation. The possibility of suffering negative consequences because of inappropriate behavior may result in hesitation and inaction. The anxiety may be generalized to similar situations. For example, anxiety over taking a particular test may be generalized to taking all tests in the future."

From: http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Anxiety/gad.asp

If the situation is making your life very difficult and if you can afford it, I'd suggest going to see a doctor. It's thought that SSRI's help with GAD and speaking from experience (I don't have GAD but I do have social phobia) SSRI's do help with anxiety generally although everyone will have different reactions to different SSRIs and some will be better than others. Also, there is an anti-anxiety drug called Buspar which is not a benzodiazipine nor is it habit forming. I've been prescribed buspar before, but had a bad reaction although I'm sure there are many who could benefit. Cognitive-behavioral therapy could also be quite useful. I've been in a few different typs of therapy and found cognitive-behavioral therapy to be the most useful so far. It's not about laying on the couch and talking about your bad childhood, but instead focuses on the present and observing oneself and one's behavior. It's basically training to make a person think differently which in turn improves one's mood.

If you don't want to go through the rigamarol of docs and such then I suggest supplements such as Sam-E or 5-HTP. GABA may help as well, but I've never tried it so I'm not sure.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Great help!
	This kind of well informed posts are what make this forum such a great place
	Good info and research

[hh339]

Whoa, that was more than I had been expecting, thank you bewilderment.

"Physical manifestations of generalized anxiety may include headaches, trembling, twitching, irritability, frustration, and inability to concentrate. Sleep disturbances may also occur. Elements of social phobia and/or panic may sometimes be present, such as high levels of self-consciousness in some situations, and fear of not being able to escape from enclosed spaces."

You basically just described SWIM in a nut-shell. I will join SWIM and discuss this with his doctor next time he goes there. He does have AD(H)D, so that would be responsible for the inability to concentrate, but methylphenidate takes care of that. The main problem is that he is forced to give urine samples 3 times a week due to his former benzo abuse and cannabis habits, and that will get in the way of his credibility considering that benzos are widely prescribed for anxiety disorders. Another problem is that when his doctor evaluated his ADHD, SWIM made it clear that he did not have any anxiety, because he though that they were talking about "mental" anxiety, and he did not speak much of the physical feelings he was/is having because he simply thought they were quite normal. What a mess...

Great help bewilderment, many thanks.

[bewilderment]

No problem

Actually my wife also has ADD and GAD so perhaps there's some sort of inclination towards comorbidity there. However, she also has bipolar disorder and thus cannot take SSRI's because they cause her to be manic or psychotic. Instead this is her regimen: wellbutrin, lamictal, clonazepam, and adderall. But, it seems that her anxiety and ADD isn't terribly severe (it still interferes with day-to-day life but I usually don't notice symptoms occuring with high frequency). In fact, she usually doesn't take her adderall or klonopin most days which is actually good because they are quite a pain to get refilled and also it keeps the tolerance down so she doesn't have to up the dosage, especially with klonopin.

[Micklemouse]

Hh, are you sure SWiM isn't just over-tweaked from his adhd meds? I seem to remember (but could be mistaken!) you mentioning Concerta in another thread somewhere.

From Concerta.net...

CONCERTA should not be taken by patients with: significant anxiety, tension, or agitation;

Also reported to increase nervousness, disturb sleep & cause headaches, much like any other stimulant will do, & much as GAD will also do. Anxiety, even at a strictly physical level will also play havoc with your ability to concentrate.

As ever, speak to the doc with Mr SWiM, as this sounds like yet another piece of bs diagnosis/prescribing, probably not helped by the doc not asking the right questions.

Best of luck.

[hh339]

Interesting... When googling a bit, it seems as these conditions in combination are very common. I really should have known that. Here in Sweden the doctors are very very paraniod when it comes to prescribing these types of substances. SWIM had a hard time getting his concerta in the first place, and is very afraid of losing it. Anyway, this can't be ignored.

Btw: Any idea which OTC (or not-so-hard-to-get-prescribed) medicine would be generally most effective and also least risky to combine with methylphenidat? Remeron helped quite a bit, but also made SWIM gain weigh very fast. That's not acceptable.

EDIT: Oh, Micklemouse: These feelings have been there the whole time when SWIM has been off drugs, the methylphenidate actually relieves them somewhat, but far from completely. This is what SWIM is scared of, losing his concerta due to some rule saying that his disorder and concerta is a no-no. He would not want to go back to benzos again if it also means losing the concerta, as he would not trade his current concentration for the benzo type of relief.

[bewilderment]

Originally Posted by Micklemouse

Hh, are you sure SWiM isn't just over-tweaked from his adhd meds? I seem to remember (but could be mistaken!) you mentioning Concerta in another thread somewhere.

From Concerta.net...


Also reported to increase nervousness, disturb sleep & cause headaches, much like any other stimulant will do, & much as GAD will also do. Anxiety, even at a strictly physical level will also play havoc with your ability to concentrate.

As ever, speak to the doc with Mr SWiM, as this sounds like yet another piece of bs diagnosis/prescribing, probably not helped by the doc not asking the right questions.

Best of luck.

That could be a factor, although, many people with ADD or ADHD feel calmed by such drugs and not necessarily stimulated. My wife says that adderall makes her feel "zen", no euphoria or anything just that she's more calm and collected.

HH, have you noticed an increase in symptoms since you began your medication? How much stimulation does it provide? It could also be that your dosage is off. I'm also thinking that the restlessness could possibly be ADHD although one would think that if it were being treated then you'd be calm. Do you think you fit the profile more for ADD or ADHD?

It is more than possible that it is indeed GAD combined with ADD, but it could also simply be, as micklemouse suggested, some sort of misdiagnosis. That is, either GAD seeming like ADD or ADHD or attention-deficit seeming like GAD. Or it could be something completely different, perhaps even a different sort of anxiety disorder although GAD was simply the first thing that sprung to mind. There may also be something out there characterized only by physical symptoms such as what you suggest, although if there is then I haven't heard of it. It's quite possible though. For example, I have restless leg syndrome which means that there are certain times when my legs feel extremely uncomfortable and this discomfort can only be relieved by movement. It becomes more pronounced at night and I could not tell you how many nights of sleep I've lost simply because I could not stop moving my leg back and forth. The current theory is that this is related to dopamine deficiency, but for some reason mine seems to become worse when I am on SSRI's.

Although, it is common for disorders such as ADD and GAD to come in pairs. I mean, having an imbalance of chemicals in the brain has many effects. Psychology can be very fuzzy, there are so many disorders which only have subtle differences and overlooking what seems to be a minor detail can easily result in misdiagnosis.

Oh, and in addition to the supplements I've already mentioned, you could give kava kava a go as well. Good luck!

[VincentVan]

Dear hh339
I have been reading your posts for a few days now and it struck me how you seem to be focused only in finding one "magical" substance ,( be a psychoactive, an illegal drug, a research chemichal , or whatever),capable of solving some problems caused by some side of your personality that you describe as negative for you.
Of course I know nothing of you. Things like your age , your sex, your social position, etc. are necessary for getting an idea of your situation, and this is why I don´t feel like I can give you any useful suggestion.
However I don´t think that you should imagine that all you need is to identify the right molecule and then all your problems would suddenly vanish.
I have noticed that many of my american friends seem to think that every condition can be cured with a pill and that all you need is to hit on the right pill for your needs.
There is a "Happiness pill" if you are sad, a sleeping pill if you are nervous, an attention pill to stay focused, one if you are shy and one if you´re overconfident.
Now, it may well be that a pharmacological solution exists for whatever is ailing you at the moment but it is a fact that the production and activity of neurotransmitters and receptors are influenced by a number of activities that do not involve taking drugs, or at least that can be practiced as coadiuvants during a drug theraphy.
A friend of mine, who is a yoga instructor, entertrained me some evenings ago with tales of how he´s teaching yoga classes for depressed people, people with eating disorders, and kids with attention deficits.
I know for a fact that a period of skiing can boast my endorphines to the point that it makes it much easier for me to kick an opiate habit.
The one suggestion I feel comfortable in giving you is this: don´t put all your eggs in one basket; not in the drug basket anyway.

VV.

[hh339]

Originally Posted by bewilderment

HH, have you noticed an increase in symptoms since you began your medication? How much stimulation does it provide? It could also be that your dosage is off. I'm also thinking that the restlessness could possibly be ADHD although one would think that if it were being treated then you'd be calm. Do you think you fit the profile more for ADD or ADHD?

There are less symphtoms with medication, and it only stimulates attention and concentration when taken as prescribed (which it is 98% of the times), as well as it is somewhat calming and provides better sleep. I would say SWIM has mostly ADD, but mild ADHD as well, and so does his doctor, which by the way is considered one of the top ADHD doctors in the country. May not mean jack, but sounds promising anyway.

@VV: I don't know what post(s) you are refering to, but I'm not that naive. I know there's not a miracle-pill that makes everything OK. I get what your'e saying though, and I agree with you. I'm interested in not only "drugs", but also vitamins, proteins etc, as well as other contributing factors that does not have to do with medicine. Understanding of what changes in the brain (substance-induced that is) that could make certain effects occur/dissapear is highly interesting of course, but I do understand that there are most likely much more to it than that.

[hh339]

Bewilderment, may I ask how you reacted to Buspar? SWIM's doctor is currently considering what to do next, and I mentioned Buspar to her. She was going to get back to SWIM in the near future, and I would like to discuss possible side-effects with her.

Was it anything serious?

[bewilderment]

Originally Posted by hh339

Bewilderment, may I ask how you reacted to Buspar? SWIM's doctor is currently considering what to do next, and I mentioned Buspar to her. She was going to get back to SWIM in the near future, and I would like to discuss possible side-effects with her.

Was it anything serious?

It wasn't anything serious physically, but psychologically it was intensely negative. But, I believe that was simply my own biochemistry and other medications reacting with it. I was also on Remeron and Paxil at the time and I disliked both of them greatly. Zoloft was my savior when I was in the depths of of a very serious and severe depression. It lifted my moods and gave me energy whereas Paxil made me completely numb so I was neither happy or sad then on top of that it made my insomnia SO much worse to the point where I was delusional. Also, I believe that I was taking too many anxiety meds at the same time. My anxiety was already greatly diminished by the Paxil and I was doing just fine in that area when out of the blue my psych decided to try something else out on me (he wasn't a very good doctor) because he asked me about anxiety and I recalled an episode where I had a paper due the next day but I had been too depressed to get started on it. I freaked out completely that night and basically threw a tantrum like a little kid and was banging on things and crying hysterically...this was also late at night around 11pm and it woke my mother up (I was just 16 at the time). Anyway, I mentioned that incident (this was just a singular incident, and not any sort of regular occurance) and the next thing I knew I was given Buspar.

I believe I had a very abnormal reaction to it so this probably won't happen to you, but this is what happened to me: I believe it was the second day that I took the medication (I found it strange for the side effects to begin so early because I figured it would take awhile for the medication to do anything at all) and I became EXTREMELY depressed, like catatonic depressed. It happened all of a sudden too, and it didn't feel at all like my normal depression. I was having an okay day and was trying to behave because my grandmother had come to visit us and was staying a few days. All of a sudden, I felt that black wave wash over me that is depression which is not uncommon because frequently my moods change rapidly and when the depression hits I basically have the sensation of falling, like I'm dizzy and everything. So, the Buspar seemed to make me delusional or something (I don't know what the word would be for it, I suppose delusional fits) and also extremely depressed for a short period of time before it got out of my system. I felt like I couldn't move any of my limbs...leaden paralysis is typically associated with depression but I'd never experienced it to this degree. I could barely bring myself to walk across the room. Then, I sat in the living room and just stared off into space. I refused to utter a single word. I had convinced myself that communication was completely futile and told myself that I would never say another word again. This was especially embarassing with my grandmother there, and I would never in any normal circumstances act like that in front her. She kept talking to me and I kept staring and wouldn't talk and my mother kept talking to me and I wouldn't talk either. They had no idea what was going on because I wouldn't speak. This was until finally my mom threatened to have me admitted somewhere unless I could tell her what was going on and I really didn't want to be hospitalized or even see a doctor so I mumbled a few things to her about how talking was useless and I wasn't going to do it anymore and I mentioned how I felt like I could barely move and she did notice that I was being extremely slow. I didn't immediately attribute this to the Buspar, but my mother immediately jumped to that conclusion and insisted that I not take it again so I didn't. And after that night, when I woke up in the morning I was completely fine and never had anything quite like that happen to me again so I'm almost certain it was the Buspar.

I found this about Buspar: "The anecdotal evidence amongst people we know who have taken BuSpar is it works fine, as long as you're taking an antidepressant along with it. By itself it did nothing. But there was a noticeable effect when BuSpar is added to an antidepressant. It doesn't seem to matter which neurotransmitters are getting messed with, as long as it's an already working antidepressant. BuSpar blocks the 5HT 1a receptor, which is believed to help block anxiety aggravated by antidepressants."

So, my theory is that because my Paxil was not working as it should...I still felt depressed but just a bit calmer about it (this is what leads to the suicides when using an antidepressant, the person is still depressed psychologically although their physical symptoms are subsiding so they have the energy to plan out the act and make decisions like that and decisions like that aren't as hard to go through with when one is numb). I'm not exactly sure about the mechanism of Buspar although since the quote above says that it blocks a certain serotonin receptor then I suppose that would lower the amount of serotonin which made my mood take an even deeper plunge. You don't happen to have depression, do you? If so then I'd definately get on a good antidepressant first or you may have a bad reaction. I'm not sure how it reacts with those who are not prone to depression. I think the reason why I reacted so badly was simply because my neurotransmitters are quite out of whack...it's never situational depression (well, not usually) it always just pops up out of nowhere. It's hereditary. It's also possible that it could be something more than depression or perhaps one of the disorders that occur later in life. Serious mental illness runs on both sides of my family. My father was actually born in a mental institution because his biological mother was hospitalized there...his aunt and uncle had to adopt him. I don't know what her diagnosis was (and people were hospitalized for mental disorders much, much more frequently back then but I have a feeling it was more than depression although I think that if I lived back then and didn't have the option of present-day medication that I would've ended up in the loony bin some time ago) or else that would really help me figure out if there is some other illness that may be trying to poke through. I also know that my dad has an illness, but he refuses to see doctors of any sort much less a psychiatrist. I'm not sure what his diagnosis would be although I would suspect something like bipolar or schizoaffective...something of that nature although he also does a great quantity of drugs so it's difficult to tell what his natural disposition is as I'm sure the drugs have messed him up a lot more, I swear he sounds more like Ozzy Osbourne every time I speak to him, which is not frequently at all. He also talks about visions and things and would sometimes go around the house mumbling to himself and cursing himself (I don't recall this, but my mother does quite vividly) but again I don't know if these visions were while under the influence or while sober and I wasn't really in a good position to ask such things when I was younger because I always pretended as if I were ignorant of the drug-use when I was younger. I also have illnesses such as schizophrenia, GAD, and perhaps one cousin who is bipolar or something (she's been diagnosed with so many things, I really don't know what it is officially although my opinion is that she has borderline personality and I have numerous reasons for believing this after growing up with her, she was basically like my sister because I was only child and she was only one year older than me so there were actually many summers growing up where she lived at my house and I have always noticed a certain pattern of strange behavior but didn't know the name for it).

Anyway, I didn't mean to tell you my life story above I was just trying to provide back-up for my statement that I'm as certain as I am of anything else that my chemistry is quite messed up and thus it's certainly possible that I had a bad reaction to Buspar because of this.

In any case, give the Buspar a try to see if it helps. If it does cause a bad reaction like the one I had then I would imagine this would happen early on when you begin taking it which means that there will be less of the chemical in your system (since things accumulate over time) so if something bad happens then you can chalk it up to the medication and just wait it out until the next day when you should be fine. I suppose I could liken it to a bad trip...if something bad happens just keep in mind that it's just the drug and it's not permanent. I didn't have that advantage in my situation because I didn't even link the negative state to my medication so I thought I had just gone completely nuts. I'm sure I would've felt much better if I had been able to put two and two together and realize that it was just the drug.

As far as other more common side effects, I found this:

•If you experience any of the following serious side effects, stop taking buspirone and seek emergency medical attention:
· an allergic reaction (difficulty breathing; closing of your throat; swelling of your lips, tongue, or face; hives);
· chest pain or an irregular heartbeat;
· headache, dizziness, lightheadedness, slurred speech, confusion, or blurred vision;
· numbness or tingling in your hands, feet, arms, or legs;
· depression; or
· uncontrollable movements of your arms, legs, tongue, or lips.
• Other, less serious side effects may be more likely to occur. Continue to take buspirone and talk to your doctor if you experience
· drowsiness or fatigue,
· dry mouth, or
· an increase in nightmares or dreams.
• Side effects other than those listed here may also occur. Talk to your doctor about any side effect that seems unusual or that is especially bothersome.

And also, I just stumbled upon a really nifty site called "ask the patient" and it's just a compilation of reports about different medications and includes side effects, what the person was being treated for, and whether or not the medication was effective. That site is here: http://www.askapatient.com/viewratin...31&name=BUSPAR

It looks like the side effects people experience vary greatly and, indeed, as I had suspected it looks like my reaction was quite atypical. It looks like many of the people on there benefitted greatly and most of them didn't have bad side effects. However, it does look like it has a high tendency to make one dizzy for a little while after taking it which may not be so nice, but maybe you'll be lucky and that won't happen to you. It's definately worth a shot. I also wouldn't be surprised if the doc wanted to put you on a low dose of an antidepressant since it's been mentioned that it's usually used in conjunction with this. I don't think that would necessarily be a bad idea whether or not you suffer from depression since it would seem to balance out some of the more depressive side effects...that is just so long as it's a very low dose of antidepressant (assuming you don't have depression) because really a low dose usually doesn't do a whole lot that's noticeable...at least in my experience. Low doses do still tend to aggravate my insomnia, but it seems as if the Buspar is also prescribed to alleviate that side effect of antidepressants

Whoa, I wrote an essay. I always have a tendency to do that for some reason :P

Cheers and good luck with the Buspar.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Informative/Insightful post

[bewilderment]

Originally Posted by VincentVan

Dear hh339
I have been reading your posts for a few days now and it struck me how you seem to be focused only in finding one "magical" substance ,( be a psychoactive, an illegal drug, a research chemichal , or whatever),capable of solving some problems caused by some side of your personality that you describe as negative for you.
Of course I know nothing of you. Things like your age , your sex, your social position, etc. are necessary for getting an idea of your situation, and this is why I don´t feel like I can give you any useful suggestion.
However I don´t think that you should imagine that all you need is to identify the right molecule and then all your problems would suddenly vanish.
I have noticed that many of my american friends seem to think that every condition can be cured with a pill and that all you need is to hit on the right pill for your needs.
There is a "Happiness pill" if you are sad, a sleeping pill if you are nervous, an attention pill to stay focused, one if you are shy and one if you´re overconfident.
Now, it may well be that a pharmacological solution exists for whatever is ailing you at the moment but it is a fact that the production and activity of neurotransmitters and receptors are influenced by a number of activities that do not involve taking drugs, or at least that can be practiced as coadiuvants during a drug theraphy.
A friend of mine, who is a yoga instructor, entertrained me some evenings ago with tales of how he´s teaching yoga classes for depressed people, people with eating disorders, and kids with attention deficits.
I know for a fact that a period of skiing can boast my endorphines to the point that it makes it much easier for me to kick an opiate habit.
The one suggestion I feel comfortable in giving you is this: don´t put all your eggs in one basket; not in the drug basket anyway.

VV.

This is quite true Vincent, and I know for a fact that exercise does help with my depression and anxiety as does eating healthily and just generally taking good care of myself. The problem is that I often find this a difficult routine to keep up. I get busy and start slacking until pretty soon I find myself in my hole. It always seems to sneak up on me...I believe it was in the book "Prozac Nation" that described depression as something that first happens gradually and then suddenly. That's been my experience. I can keep up the healthy routine so long as I am also in good health mentally, but if I slack and fall into a depression then I lose all motivation to do anything, especially and most of all exercise which I despise. I find it hard enough to do the essential things like eating, sleeping, dressing, brushing my teeth, showering, etc. without throwing exercise into the mix.

Plus, if I'm maintaining any sort of responsibility at the time such as school work then I find that takes up virtually all of my energy because I have to spend so much extra time reading and re-reading things because my concentration is horrible when I'm depressed which is funny because otherwise I can focus solely on one thing for hours and hours. I focus very well under ideal conditions.

One of my docs when I was having a psychological crisis (I was extremely suicidal and was either failing or close to failing all but one of my classes whereas before I had always been an A and B student) was encouraging me to take a medical withdrawal and I was complaining that it was like failing and it would make me feel awful and all that so he offered some words of encouragement and said that I shouldn't feel bad because with serious mental illness it's like having a four cylinder engine and only being able to use two. I also had an extra-heavy load during this particular semester with Calc II, organic chemistry, botany (this was actually one of my hardest classes which came as much of a surprise because I picked it because I thought it would be easy), some stupid once a week course which was an intro to college (I had transferred so I had to take it), and then of course the labs with organic chem and botany plus the calc II class met four days a week instead of the typical two or three and then usually met at night time for tests. I was also involved in a few clubs on campus so needless to say my schedule was busy and stressful. The advice to withdraw for the semester was the best advice I could've possibly taken...I was reluctant and tried to stick it out for about two more weeks until I had another sort of breakdown and gave up and withdrew. After that, I immediately began to get better since all the stress was off of me, I was taking an antidepressant which actually worked, and I was also seeing the best therapist that I have met with yet. It was around that time that swim also began smoking pot regularly for the first time in her life and she believes it helped a great deal. Swim still continues with this practice and finds marijuana to be an excellent antidepressant. Swim hasn't even been taking her medication lately because the marijuana helps with the anxiety, depression, and insomnia. Although, it does have it's drawbacks such as price and also when swim runs out she gets quite irritable and has mood swings but these go away within a few days and when you think about it, the withdrawal from other antidepressants is usually much worse.

In essence, I do agree with you VV. It seems like over half of the people I know over here are on some sort of psychiatric medication and that's just way too many. I think too many people here (and in other places, but I can't speak for them) turn to medication as a first option and that's often a mistake. I tend to use medication as my last option. I absolutely hate the idea of antidepressants and that little Zoloft blob makes me sick. The doctors are also very pushy when it comes to psychiatric meds. When I visited my university health center and saw the counselor, the first things she did was ask me some questions and then she immediately wanted to put me on Zoloft. I refused saying that I had taken antidepressants in the past and they made me numb and I hated that. She kept insisting that I just give it a try until finally I gave in. Although, she turned out to be right in all of her suggestions (she also gave me the number of a good psychologist because she said that I wouldn't be able to meet with a counselor on campus often enough because my condition was quite serious) although looking back on things, I know it was a good idea in my case for the medication to be pushed on me and she had good reason to do so. For example some of the questions she asked regarded suicidal ideation (the morning I went to the center, I made a choice between either going to get help, which I REALLY did not want to do as I am someone who likes to think she can deal with everything alone, or simply killing myself...I had the plan for it and when I walked out of my dorm room that morning I didn't know whether I was leaving to go off myself or leaving to go get help and luckily it was the latter) and they say that the people most likely to commit suicide are those who speak very calmly about it since you can tell that it's been thought through and isn't just some emotional outburst. So, when she asked me the questions I replied truthfully. She asked did I have suicidal ideation and I said 'yes' and she asked if any of them involved a specific plan and I said 'yes' (apparently it's much more likely for a person to carry through with the act if they can actually visualize it in their head) then lastly she asked whether I believed I could ever follow through on this plan and I answered "yes, sometimes I do." I was very calm about it all also even though I had woken up that morning and within 3 minutes of being awake I was already crying in my bed. So, of course, it was her responsibity to immediately begin treatment as soon as possible with whatever resources were best lest she have it on her conscience that she lost a student that came in for her help. She also called my mother and told her to keep a close eye on me (these consultations remain private unless the counselor genuinely believes the person is very likely to harm themselves).

In this situation, the pill-pushing actually did work to my benefit because I had all sorts of extra energy and I no longer felt like such a loser, my anxiety went down, my mood went up, etc. I even had enough energy to exercise and all that good stuff. However, I know that many other people do not really need the medication, they just need to make a few changes. I, myself, had been trying desparately to improve my situation but nothing helped and with every failure I felt worse and worse so I felt like this was my last option. I would never go to a doctor for mild depression or anything else I could deal with on my own (that stubborness and ego) but many people do. I think this is largely due to the fact that pharmaceutical companies may now advertise on television. I'm torn about the commercialization of psychiatric meds because on one hand, I do think that people who actually have legitimate illnesses should be informed about new products and know their options. But, on the other hand, there are so very many hypochondriacs which become convinced that whatever illness they hear mentioned on the commercial is something that they have (and usually the symptoms of illness are described vaguely so that they could really be applicable to anyone or at least most people). And the majority of people simply aren't all that aware of what various psychological conditions entail especially those without internet access which can't simply "google it"...they just hear a vague description, go "oh, that's me" and go to the doc and ask for the medication and doctors are usually generous with meds which aren't scheduled and will give you whatever you want. Another mistake is that people often just go to their family doctor who generally knows little about mental illness (it's simply not their specialty) and will not properly evaluate them when chances are that if your performance is being impaired enough to warrant medication then one should also go to AT LEAST a couple of therapy sessions as often the milder problems can be cleared up with just therapy alone. The other problem with this is that it is much less expensive to go to a local MD and just get a prescription than it is to see a psychiatrist (who could properly assess and prescribe if he's good at his job) or a psychologist...especially when one does not have insurance. For example, right now I think I could really benefit from therapy regarding a few issues, but I don't have insurance at the moment and sessions run about $90/hour without insurance...this certainly is not a good thing when one of my biggest worries at the moment is finances.

So, once again I've given far too much information. Perhaps I need to stop posting while drinking my coffee in the morning

[hh339]

A little update: SWIM has been drinking protein shakes and eating various amino acids and vitamins for a few days now, and he is actually feeling a lot better. Less anxiety, more energy, and a pretty nice mood lift. It will be interesting to see where this is heading

Will report back with more details in maybe a week or two.

[London_Bloke]

Originally Posted by hh339

Will report back with more details in maybe a week or two.

I hope you do - I have been reading this thread, very interested in the different approaches everyone's doctors have taken. I took myself off Wellbutrin a few weeks ago and occasionally I feel like I'm going to fall off the edge of the world.

And as we all know, depression grants automatic membership in the Flat Earth Society.

[hh339]

As usual I forgot about reporting back. SWIM felt a lot better for a few weeks, and still do for that matter, but the anxiety is not so much better now I think. It's really hard to explain because feeling better is always feeling better. I guess SWIM has evened it all out a bit in a way. SWIM will keep on ingesting these supplements and see how it turns out in the future.

[nanobrain]

excelent. bodymind. use what you have learned. seek nonpharmacological routes. give consideration to reducing the causes of your stress which may be environmental, or to findng constructive outlets rather than masking the symptoms.

precursors, exercise, fresh air, and cardioload enough to cause diaphoresis of note. voila! keep us up to your progress pls.

[hh339]

Guess what... SWIM is feeling better than ever. Proteins, vitamins, aminoacids, omega 3 and various other health supplements from time to time has definitely turned SWIM's boat around. Life situation these last 6 months (in prison) has surely made a positive difference too, in retrospect that is. His ADD is still as bad though, but today SWIM decided to stop taking his methylphenidate medicine. SWIM will now go back to his old laid back lifestyle of cannabis, and when needed he will use small amounts of pure amphetamine from his personal supply. Tired of feeling like a slave, giving piss-tests 3 times a week just to get his pills, which he won't if he tests positive. Of course, weed-smokers don't get sick so they don't need medicine, that must be it! Fuck that, fuck it all, fuck the government, fuck piss-tests, and bless you all here at D-F. Love / hh