Dose - Magic Mushrooms and Overdosing

[Fantasian]

After much argument with some friends of SWIF, i decided to come onto here to finalise this.

I am sure that by eating mushrooms one cannot overdose to a point where his body is put in physical danger. On the one hand i understand that there are dangers psychologically to massive mushrooms dosages. Could someone finalise this for me, what happens to one when a massive dose is consumed ie 10-15g dry for example. Please included all dangers and adverse effects.

Thanks

[raven3davis]

When a massive dose is consumed, you usually lose complete touch with reality. Physically, you will be okay, but you may experience complete hell and chaos for a few hours. A bad trip like this might leave behind some residual psychological effects. SWIM has known many experience trippers who took the equivelant of 15g+ and they were all fine afterwards. Not all of their experiences were enjoyable, but they all came back alive and fine as ever.

A bad trip could cause severe or mild post tramautic stress disorder, also known as flashbacks. Again, SWIM does not know anyone who has experienced this kind of flashback, but it is a possibility. PTSD is not just caused by hallucinogens, it is mainly a disorder which is triggered by a traumatic event in one's life. Witnessing the death of a family member could cause PTSD.

Shrooms are a very powerful hallucinogen and 15g is considered a heroic dose by most people. Only a true psychonaut should venture that deep. 3.5g is a sufficient dose for most people. To avoid a bad trip, plan out your trip and surround yourself with good vibes in a good enviroment. Relax your mind and float down stream. Dont let the effects of hallucinogenic drugs get to you that much. You must be prepared for a wild ride though. Strap on your seatbelt and you should come out okay.

If you experience ptsd from taking hallucinogens you should consult a physician. SWIM has only heard of one death from shrooms and the dose was an ounce dry. The report had sketchy details though, therefore its validity cannot be proven. There really isnt a lot to argue about though. Can a huge dose of shrooms kill you????? Most people would say know, but SWIM sure as hell isnt going to eat 1/4lb dry to find out. In most cases, shrooms are very safe, but if you try and push your limits you may find yourself in a sticky situation.

cool
someone else take it from there.....

[WinterTree]

SWIM didn't know you could have flashbacks from (that would explain when SWIM everyonce in a great great while will see walls moving or lights brighter then they are. So one could get permanent psychological problems from too many ? SWIM didnt know that, SWIM doesnt know whats worse, having physical problems for the rest of ones life or psychological ones. Basically its not really smart to overdose on any of those things. No one wants to end up like Sid Barret(R.I.P.) he basically ended up with permanent psychological damage, that was from but a hallucinogen is a hallucinogen(as far as SWIM knows.)

[bewilderment]

Originally Posted by WinterTree

SWIM didn't know you could have flashbacks from (that would explain when SWIM everyonce in a great great while will see walls moving or lights brighter then they are. So one could get permanent psychological problems from too many ? SWIM didnt know that, SWIM doesnt know whats worse, having physical problems for the rest of ones life or psychological ones. Basically its not really smart to overdose on any of those things. No one wants to end up like Sid Barret(R.I.P.) he basically ended up with permanent psychological damage, that was from but a hallucinogen is a hallucinogen(as far as SWIM knows.)

That could also possibly be Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder otherwise known as HPPD. Here is a brief rundown of the differences between HPPD and flashbacks:

"Flashbacks are normally thought of as occasional reoccurences of a drug-like state. HPPD differs in two ways:

1. HPPD is recurrent or ongoing.
2. HPPD is purely visual. HPPD subjects have full reality testing, meaning that they are aware that what they are seeing is not real.


Flashbacks consist of acute events where the individual experiences significant alterations in their thoughts, feelings, and/or perceptions which are reminiscent of earlier experiences. Other characteristics of flashbacks can include resurfaced memories, depersonalization or extreme detachment, altered sense of reality, re-experiencing thought-loops similar to a previous experience, visions of former experiences or traumatic events, anxiety or panic, and the like.

Flashbacks are associated with traumatic experiences and are generally considered a symptom of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Flashbacks are also known to be caused by non-psychoactive drug related experiences. Any type of powerful experience can potentially lead to memories and feelings from that experience intruding into one's thinking. HPPD is not necessarily associated with any traumatic event and does not usually elicit acute panic attacks, but may accompany them."

You can find out more here: http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/...ppd/hppd.shtml

Reputation Comments on this post:

informative!

[Fantasian]

SWIF has experienced Mushrooms many times now but wishes to delve deeper and he believes that his trip to AMsterdam in september suits this. His plan is to consume between 5-7g dry. He is used to the usual rules in relation to setting etc is there any other advice with tripping to a new level by any of the older more experienced guys out there.

On a side note: i Plan to have 2 sitters, one also tripping.

[prescription]

Positive mind before the trip can help as much as a friendly setting but u probably allready know that. Wow 15g of dried mushrooms SWIm cant even begin to imagine that trip, the potency of the mushroom may be quite important as well fantasian make sure u have an idea of how much psilocybin the mushies contain otherwise the trip could become a bit messy
.P

[hh339]

This is highly individual. SWIM never had a bad experience, not even way beyond 10 grams of dried mushrooms.
Extreme yes, unpleasant no. SWIM's friend on the other hand, completely lost it on 2 grams of the same shrooms
and was in such a horrible state that he was actually considering suicide.

Psilocybin LD50's from erowid:

LD50 285 mg/kg i.v.(mice)
LD50 280 mg/kg i.v. (rats)
LD50 12.5 mg/kg i.v.(rabbits

Psilocybin levels vary greatly from shroom to shroom, so it can not be fairly measured that way.
Rough estimations would suffice though, as noone (I guess) would eat such a large amount that it could be fatal anyway.

[Nature Boy]

SWIM's highest dose brought him to a dissociative state where he was unsure what was going on around him. Full-blown visuals were experienced and it felt quite close to an outer-body experience. No doubt massive doses of mushrooms are not to be taken lightly. HPPD, flashbacks and carelessness while tripping (considering you may have no grasp of the real world when on a massive dose) are probably the main risks associated with a massive dose.

[Fantasian]

What dose did SWIY use when he achieved this state?

[Nature Boy]

Originally Posted by Fantasian

What dose did SWIY use when he achieved this state?

Over 40g of fresh P. McKennai in tea followed by a unknown amount of Hawaiian Copelandia in some more tea.

[Trebor]

The only thing I don't like about LD50's is that I've never heard of one for humans.

[dzc18l]

Originally Posted by Trebor

The only thing I don't like about LD50's is that I've never heard of one for humans.

Hard to get one for humans. LD50 = the lethal dose of XXX that will kill half of a test population.

[matti_2003]

Yep and there is a very big difference between the LD50 for Rabbits and Mice, it would be very difficult to try and make a prediction for humans.

[Fantasian]

IS there a trip report on this somewhere?

IM very interested in exposing SWIF to this kind of experience.

[Nature Boy]

Originally Posted by Fantasian

IS there a trip report on this somewhere?

IM very interested in exposing SWIF to this kind of experience.

The trip in question might be reported in this thread though SWIM's not sure whether he actually recorded the trip in question. He doesn't recall writing up on it because he was away from his computer for several days and possibly forgot.

http://drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10650

[pjbth]

Well i'll tell a little story about some guy in a place, but it isn't me, just written in first person for effect.

During a stupid mushroom binge I had a great day of picking liberty caps. I had no scale and a very sketchy memory of the events of that day, but when put in a regular ziploc bag it was full to the point of it being difficult to close. Pictures of this event exisit but cannot be shared across the net. To this day I don't understand the thoughts going on in my head that day, but i took the bag, the whole bag.

The first half hour was very usual except I felt very sick but didn't puke (unfortunately) then the visuals started coming in. the walls, floor, ceiling all were undulating at least 3 to 4 feet from my view in the chair, this lasted for about another half hour. Then the shit hit the fan. I looked up and could see my room one floor above me in perfect detail, then as if i was sitting on my bed. I looked out the window, then i became the window. I could see inside and outside at the same time. I felt out of my body as if i was being privaleged to see something beyond what regular people are allowed to see and expierence. I could see, taste, smell, hear all of time, all places at once. My friends were at the house and said during this time i sat there completely silent staring at the window and looking around the room, but with that look in your eyes that not really seeing anything in the room, that your staring beyond it i guess. This lasted for about half an hour apperently and then one of my friends came over to talk to me. I thought it very strange, i could recogonize the person talking to me, but in the strangest sense, i couldnt tell you who he was, but I could have told you every memory i had in my brain about the times we'd had together.

Reality was gone even the most basic connection to reality was impossible I couldn't tell if he was standing 2 feet from me or if he was yelling aross a football field, but to my mind it seemed such things were trivial. I had to go outside as i feeling like the house was shrinking, my friends thought it a bad idea for me to leave the house in the state i was in, but trusted that i knew what i needed (good friends) so we went outside. I wanted to cross the road but there were cars- this was one of the few things my mind could actually recogonize as dangerous it seemed like my mind had reverted to like a 2 year old child. I knew not to burn myself with my lighter, knew cars were dangerous, knew not to go swimming in the river across the street. Anyways i sat on the grass by the river and could feel each blade on my legs like it was a tiny suction cup holding me to the ground, i stayed in this one spot until i could begin to recogonize reality about 10 years in mushroom time or about 3 and half hours. I dont remember much about outside i remember the river seemed to represent time for me flowing by, but i wasn't on the river i was outside it, outside of time, and existience just an observer of life from a what i feel to be higher perspective.

I don't know where i was on that trip but it seemed i was far beyond planet earth or viewing it from some perspective other than our own. i'm not sure to this day and i can still feel some odd things. I hate time now, watches and clocks the mechanical time is fine but i disagree with the concept of time or maybe the keeping of time itself. I feel forced into it, I actual tried to devise a way of living without time in the days after this trip. I was never a religious person, but now i scoff at the idea of religion. I don't want to insult anyone here but from where i went on this trip it didnt feel like a higher power was present, it felt more like i was seeing things like a higher power, that anyone and everyone is a god when they want to be or something like that its hard to describe. Whenever i smoke pot even the smallest ammount can cause me to see halo's around lights and objects will "breath" as i've come to call it. The other thing is mushrooms have lost there magic for me. This trip was about year and half ago and about a month ago i tried doing 3.5g and it was just sadness and depression i lost the mushroom feel only the negative aspects come through. (I was psyched for this trip too because i had been planning it for about a month

I hope this will caution anyone against dosing something retarded like this guy did, keep it under 7g dry even that is a serious damn dose. Mushrooms aren't linear a 7g trip is not twice a 3.5g trip its much more "powerful" than that.

[Phungushead]

15g... well, do not try this or else you run a good chance of having to do
some major cleaning. Anyway, here's SWIM's story.

SWIM's highest-dosed mushroom experience was 15g. Dried. Although
SWIM did not have a bad trip mentally (in fact, that part was actually
kind of nice), the physical side of it was absolutely terrible. Everything
started out fairly normal, and SWIM was eating these raspberry sour Altoids
to help with nausea, which was pretty bad. All of a sudden the Altoids
started tasting way too strong, it seriously felt like they were burning holes
in SWIM's mouth. So SWIM spits it out, and out of the blue gets the worst
hot flash ever. It was like being in hell, all SWIM could think about was
getting outside where it was a little cooler. SWIM unlocked the door, and
then couldn't figure out how to open it and sat down on the floor.

Anyway, all of a sudden SWIM is sitting there completely wet. SWIM
doesn't even remember puking... all of a sudden, everything was wet.
Then SWIM puked again, and it was the worst ever. Massive amounts out
both the mouth and nose, SWIM thought they were drowning. SWIM was
all thinking about the shower, but couldn't remember where the bathroom
was, and also couldn't remember how to work the shower anyway so that
screwed that idea.

The worst part about this trip for SWIM was this though - after the whole
puke drama, bodily overstimulation kicked in. All over SWIM's body, esp.
the arms and legs. It was to the point of actual pain. It was so bad that
between that and the hot flash (which was being alleviated by SWIM
becoming drenched in puke), SWIM thought they were going to die.

So, SWIM crawls/drags self into the kitchen somehow. Where SWIM
doesn't totally remember the events that occured. SWIM remembers
thinking just completely insane thoughts, calling out for help even though
no one was home, seeing CEV's in dark brownish colors, and once having
what SWIM is pretty sure was a seizure. Even though all this was intense,
SWIM was not scared at this point at all. In fact, SWIM was very
disassociated and didn't know who they were.

Next thing SWIM knows, they are waking up. It is now light outside (prob.
around 7AM or something). SWIM laying on the kitchen floor by the sink.
Who knows what SWIM was thinking at the time, but they just got up and
went into the bedroom and fell back asleep.

Around 10AM, the garbage truck wakes up SWIM. SWIM feels completely
normal at this time (BTW, SWIM took the mushrooms at around 11PM the
previous night). SWIM is thinking about what a weird dream last night was,
and is wondering what the fuck stinks so bad. SWIM then goes out into
the hall still half asleep and walks into the kitchen and notices that the
rug that's usually by the sink is all screwed up. SWIM's all like WTF, and
takes a better look around. Most of the entire house is smeared with this
nasty ass bluish brownish sticky shit. The door was ajar, and somehow
SWIM had broken an electrical outlet cover. SWIM realizes why they
stunk so bad, and goes to take a very long shower. SWIM's entire body
was bruised. Every bony area - wrists, ankles, knees, hips, shoulders,
spine, etc. was a huge bruise. SWIM looked like they got the shit kicked
out of em. SWIM doesn't even remember moving around all that much
during the time on the kitchen floor, but judging by the mess had somehow
flipped around the entire kitchen area which is a damn good size. Other
than that though, SWIM had no physical or emotional problems.

So, basically SWIM spent the rest of that day cleaning up the house before
the roommates got home.

This happened a long time ago to SWIM, and still really sticks out in the
memory... SWIM hasn't done a dose over 5g since then.

Reputation Comments on this post:

interesting night you had there ;) Great trip report.

[Nature Boy]

^^^

Absolutely nuts! SWIM can relate to the hot flashes and vomiting on shrooms. They can both be quite nasty. Those are probably the main reasons why it's very difficult to handle extremely large doses of mushrooms. SWIM remembers throwing up in the toilet before when tripping on a fairly large fresh dose (which of course meant his stomach was in bits). He was amazed at how much vomit was coming out and was wondering when the hell the vomiting would cease. It was as if he was puking all his insides out. Crazy at the time but quite funny in retrospective.

[Herbal Remedy]

Swim hasnt tried 15 grams, but his highest dose was between 8-10 grams. He found making a tea (or kool aid) out of the mushies and extracting the goods really helped. He had an amazing trip and did not get sick the whole time.

His trip started within 10-15 minutes, and had only about 15 minutes of minor naseau and his head felt extremley airy for the first half an hour or so. Swim finds that when drinking tea (or kool aid), the trip comes on much faster but doesnt last quite as long, so he had a very intense peak only after an hour and half, and the trip lasted about 5 hours altogether. It was a great time, swim had a few friends over and some girls and everyone felt the vibes. It was a first time for a few girls and it was beautiful for them and swim, they shared and learned and opened up so much. Swim played some guitar for the girls and they were brought to tears by the trip (though they each only took about 2 grams).

Swims other friend who took over a quarter had a very introspective trip, realizing a lot about himself and comming to grips with things between him and his father. He actaully had to leave for an hour and go off on his own and think, but it was good for him. All in all it was a great time and we were fine both mentally and physically. Perhaps making the kool aid allows for a greater dosage without as much of the physical side effects...

[bearded]

SWIM has known some people in his time, daring enough to eat 10+ grams at once. A 16gram dose left one of SWIM's friends curled in the fetal position on the couch for 18 hours. He survived, but had a period of two weeks afterwards of severe depression.

That dose also resulted in black outs (he remembers none of it), and he urinated/defecated himself. How was he gonna find a bathroom?

If given: LD50 280 mg/kg i.v. (rats), assuming that the LD50 for humans is similiar
P. cubensis carry on average .60% psilocybin
72kg person (160lbs)

Scaling up, that means 20160mg/72kg would give a 50% chance of killing this person. That's 20.16grams of psilocybin.

3360 grams of mushrooms with a potency of .6% would yield 20.16 grams of psilocybin. That's 3.36 kilograms of mushrooms, or 7.4 pounds.

That's a lot of mushrooms to eat in one sitting. It's possible all my math is messed up, I'm really sleepy, but I think it works out to be true.

[fatmanstan]

I've read many places that one would have to eat their own bodyweight in fresh mushrooms to overdose. Dried, this is still in the order of many pounds. However, I did find this article, which does cite references that I have not yet checked out. Just thought I would throw it out there.

http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/...al-report.html

[Fantasian]

Just to add to the convocation, SWIF used 12 grams of Dry Cambodian Mushroom each with another friend. His experience was intense, scary, enjoyable in parts, horrifying in others. When SWIF gets the time and can forumlate what happened well enough he'll write it up.

It was the first time he's ever experienced COMPLETE EGO loss

[Demonslayer]

In connection with a project (special report) we did during organic chemistry last year I found out that the estimated lethal dose of psilocybin was 6 grams for an adult of 70 kg. Given that Liberty caps contain just under 1 % psilocybin in dried mushrooms, I calculated that you'd need 6 kg of fresh Liberty caps or 600 grams of dried caps to reach the lethal dose which is estimated based on experiments with mice and rats. No human has ever physically overdosed on mushies. As a reference, caffine has a lethal dose of 10 grams. Mushies are as poisonous as coffee.
Anyway, you reach a certain point were more mushies don't make you trip any harder.

[fatmanstan]

Originally Posted by Demonslayer

In connection with a project (special report) we did during organic chemistry last year I found out that the estimated lethal dose of psilocybin was 6 grams for an adult of 70 kg. Given that Liberty caps contain just under 1 % psilocybin in dried mushrooms, I calculated that you'd need 6 kg of fresh Liberty caps or 600 grams of dried caps to reach the lethal dose which is estimated based on experiments with mice and rats. No human has ever physically overdosed on mushies. As a reference, caffine has a lethal dose of 10 grams. Mushies are as poisonous as coffee.
Anyway, you reach a certain point were more mushies don't make you trip any harder.

Not to be a stickler, but this should likely read that the main active alkaloid in mushies is as poisonous as the main active alkaloid in coffee (is caffeine an alkaloid?)

Just going by SWIM's experience, drinking too much coffee feels a hell of alot more toxic than too many shrooms.

[Clap!]

SWIM took approximately 3 grams on his first trip, with a bud who took 2. They weren't really sure how to split the 5 up 2 to 3, but they roughly split it up by visual size. SWIM felt a little woozy for about a half hour, then when in a bathroom with black and white tiles on the floor, looked in the mirror and realized his pupils had almost taken over his entire irises! Then the floor appeared to be a huge set of teeth chomping on me. The next 3 hours were hellishly scary for SWIM, and he even called friends to check if he was still "real." SWIM hears that 5+ grams is a normal trip, but 3 around his area is PLENTY for a heavy trip. It was scary for him, but still very fun.