Opinions - Looking for OTC energy (not ephedrine)

[Nahbus]

So SWIM is looking for some kind of energy (diet/body building blend?) to get by his workday. He enjoyed Redline for a bit, but isn't really doing much anymore. Thinking about Hydroxycut Hardcore:

Pyroxyclene™ Fat Loss Blend 742.00 mg
Green Tea extract (as camellia sinensis) (leaf) Standardized for 90% polyphenols
Caffeine Anhydrous
White Willow Extract (Bark) Standarized to 25% Salicin
aspidosperma quebracho-blanco extract (bark) standardized for 0.3% alkaloids

Norepidol™ Intensity Focus Blend 171.00 mg
Deanol acetamidobenzoate hydrogentartrate
Xanthinol nicotinate
Evodia rutaecarpa (as Tetradium ruticarpum (fruit) Standardized to 10% evodiamine
inula recemosa extract (root) Standardized for 2% alantolactone
codonopsis pilosula extract (root)

Lasidrate™ Delivery Blend 55.00 mg
troxerutin (as Sophora joponica) standardized for 97% trihydroxyethylrutoside
Inositol Hexaphosphate
cnidium monnieri extract (seed) Standardized for 20% osthole
black pepper extract (as Piper nigrum I.)(fruit) Standardized for 95% piperine

Yohimbacore™ Yohimbine Blend 4.50 mg
Methyl 17 alpha-hydroxy-yohimban-16alpha-carboxylate hydrochloride
---------
description:
"Hydroxycut® Hardcore

• Decrease Bodyfat By 7.9%
• Increase Norepinephrine by 40%
• Maximum-Strength Thermogenesis
• Liquitech™ - Rapid ReleaseLiquid Micro-Dispersion Technology
• Based on Research Conducted at The University of Laval

Team Muscletech researchers have invested in clinical studies to discover the most powerful formula ever to alter the way you burn fat. Hydroxycut® Hardcore makes all other fat burners obsolete. It is the most extraordinary powerful fat burner ever developed.

Hydroxycut Hardcore utilizes an exclusive liquid Micro-dispersion Technology to deliver fat burning components immediately to the body. Hydroxycut Hardcore attacks the fat-burning process through a proprietary 5-step process to ensure maximum-strength fat loss. First Hydroxycut Hardcore elevates levels of norepinephrine - the key fat burning hormone - by 40%. The second step involves ensuring norepinephrine levels remain elevated longer by drastically increasing cAMP levels. The third step involves alpha-receptor inhibition to ensure the fat-burning signal remains uninterrupted. The fourth step involves inhibiting the enzyme COMT, to ensure the fat-burning signal grows in strength. The fifth step involves producing heat (thermogenesis) by accelerating the breakdown of released fats in the mitochondria.

In a clinical study conducted at the University of Laval, subjects using the key components in Hydroxycut Hardcore burned significantly more calories per day than those using a placebo!

In a second clinical study, at a different institution, subjects reduced their bodyfat by a shocking 7.9%. In this study, subjects visceral and subcutaneous fat levels were measured. After 12 weeks of treatment with the Hydroxycut Hardcore components, subjects experienced a 7.9% drop in
bodyfat. That's astounding!"

Not sure if this will give SWIM the energy he needs. He saw some intriguing things at GNC, but most are expensive and he doesn't want to trial and error them all. Any suggestions? (I'm sure GNC should have SOMETHING!)
Thanks

maybe something with euphoria as well. Is SWIM asking too much here?

[jesusfreak666er]

in all honesty swim has not tried those products but you are asking for an orange to become an apple. there is a reason those products are OTC, swim might try some and get back to you but other than kratom (nice) and yohimbe (havent tried yet) there is not a valid alternative to ephedrine that I know of... If there is id love to hear about it. Swim uses dextroamps but would much rather use a legal substance that gives the same feeling... there is always propylhexadrine.. it is legal and quite euphoric. Use the search engine and there is a thread on it by nahbus I believe.

[sterling77]

Look up the products AMP and HEAT. Haven't tried them out yet but they're supposed to be kickass.

[Nahbus]

<---- Nahbus
Thanks, I'll check those out. They in the US?

[Bajeda]

Swim isn't sure why swiy is looking at body building products just to get by his work day. Swim would think adderall is a perfect candidate for swiy. It keeps you energetic, alert, and focuesed, and depending on whether its XR or regular and what the dosage is you can get euphoric effects. Swim usually feels quite happy and upbeat when taking adderall. The down side is the tolerance that builds, though this can be solved by taking sabbaticals from use or just not using it every day.

[Nahbus]

SWIM knows about adderall, and wish he could go buy them at the store. He's looking for an otc substitute.

[Bajeda]

Is swiy absolutely sure he doesn't have ADHD? He might need to go to the doctor and see if he is exhibiting the symptoms...

[sterling77]

Originally Posted by Nahbus

maybe something with euphoria as well. Is SWIM asking too much here?

Again, look up AMP by Ergopharm. This should fit what you want perfectly.

[thadj]

What ever happened to coffee?

[Senor Gribson]

amen to that, a pot of coffee in the morning and youll have energy all day

[snapper]

Chocamine (chocolate extract) combined with other light stimulants (ie-caffeine) seems to work well. There are many legitimate sources for ephedrine out there - one not watched is Sida cordifolia. SWIM does not like ephedrine at all though. Kratom in low doses is an excellent stimulant and motivator, but it is habit forming.
The chocamine can be found at the same sites that sell AMP, which SWIM has also heard is an effective product.

Snapper

[Nahbus]

Can't seem to find any stores that carry AMP. I should try a body building type store, if there are any around here.

[Nahbus]

where else would one find Chocamine?

[daeron]

i dont know why everyone is trying to complicate things, you have a quite common recipe for a LOT of stimulation: caffeine + piracetam. sometimes it tweakes me way too much too too too

[Nahbus]

Originally Posted by daeron

i dont know why everyone is trying to complicate things, you have a quite common recipe for a LOT of stimulation: caffeine + piracetam. sometimes it tweakes me way too much too too too

What exactly makes this combo better than taking a lot of caffeine? Can this combo be used with ephedrine? What exactly does piracetam do (I've heard many different uses)?
Please elaborate, and thank you for the tip. SWIM will try it.

[snapper]

Piracetam has not proven stimulating at all. Currently SWIM takes caffeine, chocamine, yerba mate extract, celastrus extract, aniracetam, pracetam, centrophenoxine, ginseng (siberian), tribulus, Rhodiola extract, +/- kratom, and occasionally some ephedrine (Sida). SWIM finds that this provides clarity of mind, not jittery stimulation and fast thinking. SWIMs work requires really fast thinking, so it works. However, on off times, this combo = drug induced ADD.
AMP and chocamine can be acquired from bodybuilding supply websites. Do a websearch and you'll find plenty.

Snapper

[Nahbus]

Originally Posted by snapper

Piracetam has not proven stimulating at all. Currently SWIM takes caffeine, chocamine, yerba mate extract, celastrus extract, aniracetam, pracetam, centrophenoxine, ginseng (siberian), tribulus, Rhodiola extract, +/- kratom, and occasionally some ephedrine (Sida). SWIM finds that this provides clarity of mind, not jittery stimulation and fast thinking. SWIMs work requires really fast thinking, so it works. However, on off times, this combo = drug induced ADD.
AMP and chocamine can be acquired from bodybuilding supply websites. Do a websearch and you'll find plenty.

Snapper

SWIM is very interested in this combo (haven't really gotten a chance to check out each item, though). At what dosages do you take of each, and do you take them all at the same time? Could you describe the effects a bit better? Would this be good for physical labor, would you say?

Also, yeah I know about the internet AMP, was wondering if any local stores had them. I suppose I would have to find a body building store.

[snapper]

Dosages tend to be individual depending on the quality of the botanical or extract and individual variation. Trial and error is the key. Smart drug dosages can be found on the net, ginseng, tribulus, and rhodiola are purchased precapped and taken at recommended dosages, look up kratom. Usually everything taken at the same time except the pracetam which is split into two dosages and the kratom which is only used if extra energy is needed. SWIM has found that low doses (2g-3g leaf) are far more stimulating than higher doses. Lastly, kratom seems to consistently make SWIM exhausted the day or two after usage. THe longer the run, the more tired SWIM gets. This has repeated itself enough that SWIM is convinced of it, and may be a reason SWIM will be losing interest in this botanical..
Remember that most body building supplements are also thermogenic, so they kill your appetite, make you sweat and lose weight. This combo is used by SWIM for a mentally taxing and physically laborious job and other such activities.

Snapper

[Nahbus]

That sounds perfect for SWIM. He has a physically demanding job, and he also needs more concentration and thinking (maybe even a creative boost) for his illustration and graphic design job. This seems to be a perfect one-two punch!
Thanks for the tip, SWIM will have to try this out in one of the upcoming weeks.