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  #1  
Old 15-03-2013, 01:45
whit424 whit424 is offline
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What are some substances (any at all) that meth is cut with?

I know that meth can be "cut" with things similar to what cocain is cut with. What are some examples? And what are the risks/effects/taste etc of those substances meth is cut with?
  #2  
Old 15-03-2013, 02:41
trailerparkplumber trailerparkplumber is offline
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Re: What are some substances (any at all) that meth is cut with?

The most common thing we used to use about 10 years ago was vitabland, I think that's what it is called. But we were cutting the powdered version we called crank.

This new crystal meth, if it's in the shard form, I don't know that there is anything you can cut it with. Maybe rocksalt, but you would know it pretty fast.

If you are buying crystal meth in powder form, stop. I specifically tell my guy to give me big shards. Have gotten the best results that way.
  #3  
Old 15-03-2013, 03:24
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Re: What are some substances (any at all) that meth is cut with?

The powdered version would best be cut with substances that are water soluable, like powdered baby formula or vitamin b12. That way your nose doesnt get clogged up.
  #4  
Old 15-03-2013, 03:51
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Re: What are some substances (any at all) that meth is cut with?

Unfortunately such information revealed here would potentially give too many sellers ideas about cutting their product. Perhaps you might get a serious answer by PMing someone, but just freely posting such information on the forums would be a bad idea. Please don't ask. Cutting agents for cocaine are more commonly known, and there is an argument for revealing them for the sake of user safety, but novel ideas about cutting meth are not appropriate here.

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Appropriate Information - Thanks For Stating
Assuming the OP has ill intentions and telling them, "please don't ask". Advise to to get a serious answer by PMing someone is more likely to make the person seem as though he/she is looking for ideas, which might turn out worse for the user.
There is a reason why discussions on cutting substances are heavily restricted, you are quite right in pointing this out
  #5  
Old 15-03-2013, 04:25
BitterSweet BitterSweet is nu online
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Re: What are some substances (any at all) that meth is cut with?

EDIT: I don't think listing this information should be avoided because a lot of people do wonder what exactly is in meth (me for one) and the dangers. If a person wanted to figure out how to make meth an easy internet search could assist them, so I don't see that information posted here alone only serves the purpose of helping someone make meth. Information is information - how it is used varies, but there is nothing wrong with posting information that has a variety of benefits like warning people about the dangers associated with the ingredients. There is a wealth of information that inherently exists around here seeing as it is a drug forum that one could argue could be used for ill purposes. I think PMing someone could be worse because how does the person know who to PM? And the person getting the PM would probably not be too keen to direct message a bunch of meth ingredients back to the person, considering the OP is new here. That would look really bad on the OP and whoever receives the message would probably be a little apprehensive.

Meth is rarely pure and is rarely not cut with other ingredients. It can be cut with anything really, since the person making it wants to dilute the drug to have more of it to sell. It can be cut with "chalk", this is just a nickname for dry wall or sheetrock that has been grinded, and it turns into a white powder, and is not friendly to your lungs if your snorting meth.

It can be cut with talcum powder because it is closely related to potent carcinogen asbestos (a carcinogen is any substance that's directly involved in causing cancer). Asbestos used to be really popular for use in electrical insulation and it has tons of other uses for manufacturing purposes, but the EU has banned all use of asbestos products because prolonged inhalation of asbestos fibers can cause serious illness like malignant lung cancer, mesothelioma, and asbestosis. Anyway, back to talc - talc particles can cause tumors in the ovaries and lungs of cancer victims. Apparently scientists have found talc particles to be dangerously similar to asbestos, but even cosmetic grade talc (talc without any asbestos-like fibers) has been shown to cause tumors. But with or without asbestos-like fibers, cosmetic grade talcum powder is a carcinogen (A carcinogen is any substance that is directly involved in causing cancer).

Talc is toxic. Talc particles cause tumors in human ovaries and lungs. Numerous studies have shown a strong link between frequent use of talc in the female genital area and ovarian cancer. Talc particles are able to move through the reproductive system and become imbedded in the lining of the ovary. Researchers have found talc particles in ovarian tumors and have found that women with ovarian cancer have used talcum powder in their genital area more frequently than healthy women.

Talc poses a health risk when exposed to the lungs. Talc miners have shown higher rates of lung cancer and other respiratory illnesses from exposure to industrial grade talc, which contains dangerous silica and asbestos. The common household hazard posed by talc is inhalation of baby powder by infants. Since the early 1980s, records show that several thousand infants each year have died or become seriously ill following accidental inhalation of baby powder."

Since meth is made by "cooking down" pseudoephedrine (found in allergy and cold medicine pills), additional chemicals are used to isolate the ephedrine or pseudoephedrine. Usually these chemicals are cheap commonly found household items - ammonia, lye, and red phosphorus scraped from matchbook covers. During the heating process tons of toxic fumes are produced too. Depending on the recipe, other ingredients can be from lithium camera batteries, tincture of iodine and hydrogen peroxide. Some recipes use charcoal lighter fluid, paint thinner, gasoline, kerosene, rubbing alcohol and mineral spirits. Corrosive products are used during the cooking process like sulfuric acid in battery acid or sodium hydroxide from lye-based drain cleaners.

The added step to convert powder meth to crystals usually involves dissolving the powder with a solvent like methanol, acetone, ethanol or isopropanol. Just how meth is made leaves it vulnerable to having damaging ingredients in it. The information I've provided also shows that there are some ingredients that will probably be in meth whether or not it is cut with some other stuff, because of how the whole process works. Here is a pretty extensive list of chemicals that can be found:
  • Alcohol
  • Ether
  • Benzene or (gasoline)
  • Toluene/Paint Thinner
  • Acetone
  • Chloroform
  • Starting Fluid
  • White Gasoline
  • Phenyl-2-Propane
  • Phenylacetone
  • Phenylpropanolamine
  • Iodine Crystals
  • Red Phosphorous
  • Black Iodine
  • Lye (Red Devil Lye)
  • Drano
  • Muriatic/Hydrochloric Acid
  • Battery Acid/Sulfuric Acid
  • Epsom Salts
  • Batteries/Lithium
  • Sodium Metal
  • Wooden Matches
  • Energy Boosters
  • Rock Salt
  • Diet Aids

Instead of isolating the health effects associated with each ingredient, it's easy to see that even the ingredient of draino, for example, is going to bring the presence of damage even if a lot of the other toxic ingredients aren't present. Meth is known to have a neurotoxic effect, damaging brain cells that contain dopamine as well as serotonin, another neurotransmitter. Over time, methamphetamine appears to cause reduced levels of dopamine, which can result in symptoms like those of Parkinson’s disease. Dopamine- and serotonin-containing neurons do not die after methamphetamine use, but their nerve endings ("terminals") are cut back, and regrowth appears to be limited.

I suppose if you really wanted to get detailed you could look up each ingredient individually to see how it affects the human brain/body. But meth is hardly ever pure so some of these are guaranteed to be involved. Here is where I found some of this information: http://www.7-star-admiral.com/0031_f...meth.html#KJR8

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Thank you for understanding that some people use this site to expand their knowledge! I was not trying to cook meth or cut meth. I simply wanted to know what it could be cut with!
I couldn't agree more, i learn new things every day!
Very informative. And helpful to the op

Last edited by BitterSweet; 15-03-2013 at 04:45.
  #6  
Old 26-04-2013, 14:16
hotdogfrenchfries hotdogfrenchfries is offline
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Re: What are some substances (any at all) that meth is cut with?

When a compound is crystallized, purification occurs. Crystallization occurs slowly, and during that process, molecules will arrange themselves in a tight pattern, excluding impurities.
Unfortunately a lot of "rocks" out there are not true crystals, they are simply "blobs" that were heated past their melting point and allowed to cool down.
Some meth is also made up of smaller crystals of unadulterated meth, that have been dipped in another compound which then recrystallized around the meth.

As a general rule, though, crystals will include very little if any of the above chemicals.

Also, I'd like to set the record straight, as the "war on drugs" has resulted in a lot of propaganda about meth, which is highly inaccurate, and sometimes a downright lie.

For example, drain cleaner (sodium hydroxide, also known as lye) is a base. The same product is also used to make soap, for example, by mixing it with essential oils.

Sulfuric acid.... hmmm. Clar.....-D anti-allergy pills, are pseudoephedrine sulfate.... that is, freebase pseudopehedrine that has been exposed to sulfuric acid.

Also, note that it is unlikely that you will find toluene,benzene,diethyl ether and naphtha at the same time.They are non-polar solvents, and typically the "cook" will choose between one of these and use that one only.

Hydrochloric acid is used to process sugar cane into sugar. Su..fed is pseudoephedrine hcl, which is freebase pseudoephedrine that has been exposed to hydrochloric acid. Muriatic acid is simply a form of hydrochloric acid (which is a gas dissolved in water) that contains more water, and less hydrochloric gas.

Alcohol... well, you know, people drink it. It is probably one of the ingredients you are most likely to find trace amounts of in street meth as it is used as part of the crystallization process... but the amounts of it are so small they are insignificant, and putting on deodorant probably results in more alcohol absorption than ingesting a large amount of meth.

Water may also be found in meth.
  • Ether
Specifically diethyl ether. Was used widely everywhere in hospitals for anesthesia. Trace amounts in meth.
  • Benzene or (gasoline)
Almost never.


- Toluene/Paint Thinner: Trace amounts. That one isn't very good for you, agreed. People do get high by sniffing toluene.



- Acetone: (from wikipedia) Acetone can be found as an ingredient in a variety of consumer products ranging from cosmetics to processed and unprocessed foods. Acetone has been rated as a GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe) substance when present in beverages, baked foods, desserts, and preserves at concentrations ranging from 5 to 8 mg/L


Acetone evaporates so quickly that it is very unlikely that more than insignificant amounts will be found in meth.



  • Chloroform
Very rarely in street meth, if ever. Again, trace amounts. Compare that to the amounts used in hospitals for anesthesia.

  • Starting Fluid
Same as diethyl ether.

  • White Gasoline
This is misleading. White gasoline is a naphtha, which is used as lighter fluid, bbq starter fluid (you put it uinder your food...)
Trace amounts may be found in meth, if any.
  • Phenyl-2-Propane
  • Phenylacetone
A precursor for meth, and sometimes found as an impurity, depending on the method used to mfg the meth. Worth noting that amphetamine turns into phenylacetone in the human body.

  • Phenylpropanolamine
You probably will not find that in meth.



  • Iodine Crystals
Iodine is necessary for human life, IIRC. It is also used to purify water. Either way, iodine itself is not likely to be found in street meth.

  • Red Phosphorous
Most likely not found in street meth these days. Rarely found in meth because it is filtered off after the reaction. The production method that uses red phosphorus is not popular anymore for meth, anyway.
Cooks will recycle and re-use the red phosphorus though, so it is valuable, and that is why you are not likely going to find it in meth.



  • Lye (Red Devil Lye)
  • Drano
Drano is not used anymore. Red Devil Lye is a base used to lower the ph. Your body is made up of mostly water, and it would take large amounts of lye to hurt you. Either way, trace amounts might be found in meth, but most likely not.



  • Muriatic/Hydrochloric Acid
Answered this early on. Methamphetamine freebase is an oil, when it is treated with hydrochloric acid, the Hcl molecule binds to the meth, turning it into a salt. Pseudoephedrine Hcl is produced the same way and it is sold as decongestant pills. Excess hydrochloric acid may be found in dirty meth, but it is a liquid and it evaporates. Quickly rinsing meth in acetone will remove any excess hcl, and acetone evaporates very quickly and crystals can be dry in less than a minute. Ingesting acetone is not toxic anyway. (Acetone is a great disinfectant if you have nothing else aroiund, by the way)



  • Battery Acid/Sulfuric Acid
answered above

  • Epsom Salts
used as dessicant, it is also used to help with constipation, or to prevent wrinkled skin during a long bath. pretty safe, even beneficial in some cases.



  • Batteries/Lithium
This one is too complicated to explain here, but there will not be any lithium in street meth, I've never seen it anyway.



  • Sodium Metal
This one could be used instead of lithium... won't be found in the end product. Also, from Wikipedia "In humans, sodium is an essential nutrient that regulates blood volume, blood pressure, osmotic equilibrium and pH"
  • Wooden Matches
that's a lie. The strike pad on some matchbooks is made up of red phosphorus, so cooks would scrape the matchbooks to get the red phosphorus required. This method is not popular anymore today, but the impurities that would carry over into meth were not the phosphorus, but the glue used to attach it to the matchbooks.




  • Energy Boosters
? What? Like jumper cables? No. Caffeine, phentermine... maybe, but these don't burn clean on foil, so very unlikely that meth has been cut with these unless the dealer knows that no one will smoke his product in a glass pipe.



  • Rock Salt
That's just salt. It's not bad for you.



  • Diet Aids
I won't even dignify that one with an answer. I mean... really?




That said, the process of producing meth generates fumes that aren't good for ya... but these days cooks know howto contain them. You are not likely to suffer pain because your neighbor used to cook meffs.
Meth labs explode because cooks sometimes stay up for too long and start doing weird shit wihtout planning it out, and they screw up, from overconfidence, perhpas...)
They could also blow themselves up while working on a car. It's not the act of cooking meth, its the act of being careless.



Hope that clears up some.


Now as to cutting agents that are safe to mention here:
MSM (not used anymore, everyone knows how to tell it)
isopropylbenzilamine (DEA microgram talks about this, I've seen it first hand, it's all over the place... chemically almost identical to meth, but it does nothing except maybe keep you up, sort of.... effects on human body and CNS are unknown att this time. Some samples of street meth have been found to be 100% IPBA, and mexicans were found using it first. I've seen it in white people dope, too.
I have not found any references to a simple way to remove it from meth.
This, and closely related cuts, are what is mostly found in meth these days. No studies have been published concerning their neurotoxicity that I could find.


I will add a chemical that may be found in steet meth (but rarely) and is actually cause for concern: perchloroethylene, aka tetra, aka TCE (it isn't TCE, but it is often called TCE)
At higher temperatures (300C) it turns into phosphene gas, which is toxic.
Used in some purification tetchniques from pills. Typically not found in street meth these days, though.


Aziridines and CMP are impurities that are more likely to be found in street meth. They are not cuts per se, but depending on how well the reaction went, they may be present in the end product. There are others, as well.

I may come back and clean this up and fix the formatting, if this post gets any attention.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Excellent sum of information to dispel potential myths about meth ingredients
Wonderful info. Many here have been looking for this exact info.

Last edited by hotdogfrenchfries; 26-04-2013 at 14:21.
  #7  
Old 26-04-2013, 17:18
BitterSweet BitterSweet is nu online
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Re: What are some substances (any at all) that meth is cut with?

hotdogfrenchfries, that was very interesting to read. Just wondering, where did you find all that out? Like somewhere online or just from personal knowledge (not saying you are a meth cook but some other source of personal knowledge like school or what have you). I agree that there are a lot of "war on drug" myths about meth, after seeing people on this board who use meth and aren't all withered away with picked at skin and broken teeth, and whose brains aren't mush by now. But there is a lot of information about the impact meth can have on the brain, even changing it in irreversible ways, which is something that scares me. Even if these facts are overstated, it is enough to scare people off of meth I think - well, at least in my hometown, we "learned" about meth in this light so no one ever touched it because it was seen as a dirty drug with undesirable effects in the grand scheme.

I was just thinking as I was reading that that sure, each ingredient in and of itself is probably not immediately harmful, but all of those, or at least most of those, ingredients combined, taken at once, and repeatedly over binge periods or over the period of time someone is using, is probably where the real danger is presented. Like you said, in small amounts, those ingredients aren't as bad as they sound, but if you are smoking a lot of meth, you are getting much more of those ingredients than from a single use. Maybe that is why over time meth is said to change the brain. And of course not every person is getting the same meth, so some may be purer over others. I know of someone very close to me who actually had rat poison in her crack; I don't know the full story, but it was a pretty big deal at the time. It just goes to show though that even one batch could have some shady shit in it, especially when the cooks are high and careless themselves.

As for the danger of meth labs, there must be some toxic ingredients that are expelled during the cooking process, so is being exposed to the cooking process probably more dangerous health wise than the actual product? Because if you think about it, you are sitting around breathing in whatever ingredients are being cooked. I don't know how long the actual cooking takes place. I mean, the only tangible knowledge I have of cooking meth is from breaking bad lol.
  #8  
Old 30-04-2013, 23:15
hotdogfrenchfries hotdogfrenchfries is offline
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Re: What are some substances (any at all) that meth is cut with?

I've never watched the show and only heard about it, so I can't say how accurate it is, but my guess is that it has to have some hollywood sparkle added to it to be interesting, as cooking meth is generally a boring process. Think "How do they do it" on SciFi.

I know these things from memory. Most of these chemicals are over the counter and have legitimate uses.

Of course chemicals react and form other compounds which are much more toxic.

There are various ways to produce meth, and each general production method has as many variations as there are cooks out there, and each lab is set up differently, from high tech to one pot shake and bake while shopping at walmart backpack meth lab.

A way that was popular until a few years ago could produce phosphine gas, which is very, very toxic. However that would happen if the labware was not set up properly, and the cook decided to be lazy and not capture the fumes. It would also require accidental overheating.
Another method which is seen as small scale, ghetto and dangerous, produces ammonia gas, which is not good for you either.



But to get back to the OP's question, and without going into more detail than is necessary:
- Cat urine smell is usually a cut. People think link this smell to ammonia, which is linked to one route used to produce meth, but generally, it is actually the result of a cut being added, which smells like ammonia
- MSM, talked about widely, no need to explain
- ephedrine used to be a popular cut, and the reason for that was not cost of chemicals, but rather to reduce the potency of the product so more would be needed. these days ephedrine costs as much as meth itself and it is not used as a cut anymore. however ephedrine or pseudoephedrine can be found in meth, not as cuts that have been added, but because the reaction was not completed correctly.
- aziridines are not a cut, but impurities present mostly in another route used for meth. they can be found in various % in the end product. they are known to cause cancer.
- CMPs are another impurity, which is indicative of the (improperly named) "nazi" route to producing meth.

Some other ways to artificially increase the weight of the product are to not properly dry it, or to leave some solvents during the process that grows the rocks. Water, propylene glycol (common food additive) ethanol are sometimes found.

Recently seizures have revealed cutting agents that pretty much cannot be identified, if mixed with meth (marquis rageant will be positive because of the meth in the mixture, and marquis cannot be used to indicate purity) such as isopropylbenzilamine.

Last edited by hotdogfrenchfries; 30-04-2013 at 23:24.
  #9  
Old 01-05-2013, 00:00
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Re: What are some substances (any at all) that meth is cut with?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotdogfrenchfries View Post
Recently seizures have revealed cutting agents that pretty much cannot be identified, if mixed with meth (marquis rageant will be positive because of the meth in the mixture, and marquis cannot be used to indicate purity) such as isopropylbenzilamine.
Could you perhaps clarify and cite the quoted section? Do you mean people are having brain seizures as a result of unknown cuts only thus revealed but not otherwise traceable or do your mean that chemicals seized from meth labs have revealed cutting agents that cannot be identified after being mixed?

As for the non crystal variety of meth I will also add my voice to the warning to not buy any form of powder presented as meth as you can most likely end up buying something totally different and unknown if not lethal. I think I might have even ended with some old school PCP.
  #10  
Old 02-05-2013, 13:37
NEO999 NEO999 is offline
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Re: What are some substances (any at all) that meth is cut with?

If its ice,the most used is msn a dietary supp.
  #11  
Old 05-05-2013, 20:58
hotdogfrenchfries hotdogfrenchfries is offline
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Re: What are some substances (any at all) that meth is cut with?

Yes, by seizures, I meant arrests and seizures of product that looked like optically pure methamphetamine hcl, but turned out to be isopropylbenzylamine hcl or similar.

I'm sorry to break your bubble, everyone, but virtually all meth sold is cut. Even small time cooks will cut their product, because of the federal monthly limits on the purchase of cold/allergy medications. The exception would be the shake and bake, but due to the highly refined method used to produce that product, it does not need to be cut to be naturally adulterated. As a smoker anyway, SnB meth sucks.

First of all, cooks do not want to be caught with high purity meth, because the sentences are mush harsher for 80%+

Second, it is actually difficult to produce meth with 80%+ purity, and it takes extra time to recrystallize, etc. - why would the producers bother? more potent product = people will buy less of it, and why spend more time cooking it if the same weight can be achieved by cooking it fast?

There is a document called the "Bremer report" or something, where DEA chemists tried to reproduce clandestine conditions. Without going into too much detail.... they cooked up a bunch of batches, (these are trained chemists) and purity is all over the place, but mostly, it's not very good.

Also, getting rocks does not indicate purity. There is something called "co-crystals" and producers learned how to make these long ago. isopropylbenzylamine etc. will co-crystallize with meth, and there is pretty much no way to tell that the shit is cut, other than very subtle signs that aren't consistent.
Best way to tell without expensive machines, is to have someone who shoots up try it for you. Of course they need to know what good meth feels like... not seen much, if ever, on the street anymore.

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