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  #1  
Old 14-03-2013, 08:25
Li2CO3 Li2CO3 is offline
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Curcumin as a kratom potentiator?

Hello,

I have only a very basic knowledge of pharmacology and have a question regarding the potentiating of kratom..

I've read that turmeric is a known potentiator of kratom through inhibition of the CYP3A4enzyme (and possibly others, I don't even really know, maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong). I've had a small amount of Circumin capsules for around half a year and only just realized that Circumin is one of the main chemicals in turmeric...

Curcumin is the principal curcuminoid of the popular Indian spice turmeric, which is a member of the ginger family. Turmeric's other two curcuminoids are desmethoxycurcumin and bis-desmethoxycurcumin

Does anyone know whether using circumin ( not the full turmeric spice) would work as a potentiator? I'm going to attempt it now anyway, but I don't know what the dosage of each circumin capsule is and don't even know how much is supposed to be effective.

Just wondering whether anyone has had any experience/success with this

Li2CO3 added 146 Minutes and 8 Seconds later...


edit--a few hours later:
well, I answered my own question........

i swallowed two circumin capsules, waited about an hour, and had 7 grams of kratom (Green malaysian/Red thai) on a semi-full stomach. talked to my girlfriend on the phone for about a half hour while lying down (it had partially kicked in) and then sat up/went back onto the computer...

...i should have taken less! the effect is much stronger than what a 7 gram dose would usually give me; this is also the first time I have felt any negative physical side effects from kratom (aside from nausea). it was harder to take deep breaths, it felt like I had to tell myself to breath (would this be considered respiratory depression?), my body was shaking while I was breathing, and my jaw was clenching/chattering. this has never ever happened to me before on kratom. the side effects started to cause me anxiety, even though I know there are no reported deaths relating to a kratom overdose. this is ironic because a couple of hours before dosing I had posted in another thread saying I couldn't imagine kratom causing any anxiety.........

I realize now that the shaking was partly due to me being cold - I took a hot shower (to calm my nerves about the side effects) and the feelings have somewhat dissipated...the trouble i had breathing was pretty freaky though. the high is still the strongest kratom has ever given me....

so, this thread is now both a tip for anyone wishing to get the most out of their kratom, and a warning...take less than you usually do, because circumin capsules definitely work for this cause!!

Final edit:

smooth sailing now, all negative side effects are gone - was the initial strength that kicked my ass. will be repeating but with less kratom and possibly only one circumin capsule...

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Thank you for sharing your exp, but please be more careful in the future.
please ensure proper spelling of substances in thread title, great work otherwise!

Last edited by Li2CO3; 14-03-2013 at 08:46. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #2  
Old 15-03-2013, 01:51
Netizen Netizen is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

Interesting. Thanks for being the guinea pig! How does it compare to Tagamet (Cimetidine)? Do they work on the same principle?
  #3  
Old 16-03-2013, 00:27
DiabolicScheme DiabolicScheme is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netizen View Post
Interesting. Thanks for being the guinea pig! How does it compare to Tagamet (Cimetidine)? Do they work on the same principle?
I believe the method of action with Curcumin is not through "overloading" enzymes causing a delay in the removal of kratom but rather its actions on the NMDA receptor, which has been a interesting target for scientists to delay/reverse opioid tolerance.

I can't be certain but this chemical is believed to prevent NMDA induced excito-toxicity. This would lead one to believe that it does interact with the NMDA receptors through antagonism. DXM is another well known NMDA antagonist that is known to delay/reverse/sensitize effects to opioids or drugs that act on opioid receptors (such as kratom).

Also has some mild MAO-A inhibition which might lead to a positive boost in mood, which could indirectly enhance kratom's enjoyment.

Interesting OP I might have to try this, DXM works but it kinda makes me feel "blah", perhaps this could be used to enhance kratom without giving me the "blah" feeling DXM gives me.

Quote:
RESULTS:
Curcumin dose- and time-dependently protected both retinal and hippocampal neurons against NMDA-induced cell death, confirming its anti-excitotoxic property. In primary retinal cultures, in line with the observed reduction of NMDA-induced [Ca(2+)](i) rise, whole-cell patch-clamp experiments showed that a higher percentage of retinal neurons responded to NMDA with low amplitude current after curcumin treatment. In parallel, curcumin induced an increase in NMDAr subunit type 2A (NR2A) level, with kinetics closely correlated to time-course of neuroprotection and decrease in [Ca(2+)](i). The relation between neuroprotection and NR2A level increase was also in line with the observation that curcumin neuroprotection required protein synthesis. Electrophysiology confirmed an increased activity of NR2A-containing NMDAr at the plasma membrane level.
Department of Cell Biology and Neuroscience, Istituto Superiore di Sanitā, Rome. andrea.matteucci@iss.it



Quote:
Curcumin is a widely consumed component of the spice tumeric, commonly used in India and other parts of Asia. One of its important properties is functioning as MAO-A (Monoamine oxidase A) inhibitor that may help with certain neurotransmitter imbalance conditions that often manifest in a diagnosis such as depression. Some research shows that MAO-A levels in the brain are higher in many people with major depression and sleep disorders. This is probably why MAO inhibitor drugs have often been helpful for such conditions.

As an inhibitor, curcumin can lower MAO-A levels.
-http://emediahealth.com/2012/01/17/curcumin-and-the-mao-inhibitor-cheese-effect-from-tyramine-triggered-hypertension/

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thank y ou for the sourced pharmacological information!
Cool info! TY for putting in the effort.
  #4  
Old 16-03-2013, 23:39
billbryan billbryan is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

I have been taking ~1g of tumeric with my kratom lately and have noticed possibly a slight increase in effect. I can say that it will prolong the duration of my kratom experience for sure though.

I am using pure tumeric powder from a good source using only the best organic ingredients. I'm sure that you can find a product just as good in your local natural food shop.

I have also been having good results adding in ~1g of Cat's Claw (have used Peruvian and Chinese varieties with good results). The CC will make the kratom effects more pronounced and slightly more relaxing. Cat's Claw also has NMDA antagonist properties.

From my experience using DXM in the same way just doesn't work out well. I have tried 30mg and 15mg on a few occasions and every time it will cuase unwanted negative effects. Although it will potentate the kratom and lengthen the duration, I find that the negative effects (headache and overall 'weird' feeling in head) outweigh the positives. Everyone is different so you might find it to work for you but this is my experience.

An addition herbal teas such as chamomile, passion flower, damainia, etc can be good to make it more relaxing while yerbe mate can be a great addition for a more stimulating experience.

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good information, thanks for sharing!
Thanks For Posting This Experience
  #5  
Old 19-03-2013, 22:24
PhiPack PhiPack is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

Here is a list of known Kratom and opioid poteniators that I put together for another board. These arent all but some that I have used and some that other people have used that I know work well. They all either inhibit the P450 enzymes or impact the acidity level of your intestinal track.

Hello! I have been browsing the forums for a bit reading info about Kratom. I saw this thread and thought I would contribute. I took opioid pain killers for years and spent a lot of time researching potentiators from them. I am using Kratom to get off them and manage my pain a healthier way So, here is some info:

1) Grapefruit juice is a decent inhibitor but it is not even close to the top. It is actually pretty weak compared to many. Also, taking grapefruit juice with or shortly before your Kratom is going to do very little. I would suggest drinking it 45 minutes to an hour beforehand. Your body needs to start processing the chemicals in GFJ before inhibition takes place that will slow the processing of the Kratom. You need the white kind and from concentrate is much more effective. I also hear that eating the peel of the fruit is more helpful as it has more of the chemicals that you need.

2) DXM is a very high potentiator but it is also a good way to turn your experience into something unpleasant. If you are like me, it makes you loopy and feel kinda dirty. It just makes me want to lay down. If you are going to take it, Coricidin Cough and Cold for people with High Blood Pressure is a good way. It's a small dose and shouldnt make you too drowsy. I personally am not a fan but my body doesnt do well with DXM.

3) Watercress which is a semi-aquatic plant that acts as a mild stimulant and also is a source of a lot of vitamins and minerals. So, it is actually good for you. It inhibits the CYP2E1 enzyme pretty well.

4) St. John's Wort isnt a top inhibitor but it is useful because it inhibits about 5 of the enzymes in the family of enzymes you need to inhibit. Edit - is a CYP2D6 inhibitor which cleans Kratom out of your system, probably want to avoid)

5) DLPA - wonderful potentiator and has a lot of positive effects. For it to be real useful, you need to take it regularly though. It takes a couple of weeks before you truly start to see the impact. I take 1000mg a day and usually about an hour before I take Kratom.

6) Quinine via Tonic Water - if you can get actual quinine, thats great but most people cant so tonic water is a source although it doesnt have much. Again, 45 minutes to an hour beforehand to truly see the effects. Edit - is a CYP2D6 inhibitor which cleans Kratom out of your system, probably want to avoid)

7) Tagamet - it's one of them but overall pretty weak unless you take a few but you arent suppose to take more than like 2 a day so be careful with that.

Tums and other antacids - not necessarily an inhibitor but it does raise the Ph in your stomach which increases absorption.

9) turmeric - not sure about opioids but this has been known to work with Kratom. I've read about a lot of people using it. You can just add it to your Kratom and it has some positive health benefits.

10) Cayenne pepper - same impact as tums. You can actually put this in your kratom powder. DO NOT USE TOO MUCH!

11) Valerian - yep, the plant. It is an inhibitor as well but I have never used it.

12) Magnesium - mag oxide, citrate, taurate, glycinate and others work. However, like mentioned, they have a tendancy to act as a laxative. So, I suggest Magnesium Salicylate Tetrahydrate which is a pain reliever. You can find it at CVS via their CVS Backache pills which have 580mg which is about what you need. You want to take this about 30 to 45 minutes beforehand. It's an NMDA antagonist which means it will help reduce tolerance.

13) Caffeine - it's not really an inhibitor or a potentiator but it works well against fighting the drowsiness effects of some of this stuff. I personally dont like feeling sedative so a cup of coffee or a nice tea can do wonders about making you feel better.

14) star fruit, milk thistle gingko and peperine are all potentiators but level in which they do so is unknown.

15) Dramamine - this is a good one and the best advantage to it is that it helps reduce the chance of nausea. I suggest Dramamine 2 which is the non-drowsy formula. Edit - is a CYP2D6 inhibitor which cleans Kratom out of your system, probably want to avoid)

With all that said, the best inhibitors are prescriptions. HIV and other STD medications are the highest inhibitors. A lot of anti-depressants like Wellbutrin are inhibitors and so. I wont go into those though.

Something that is important is that taking potentiators with or right before your Kratom isnt going to be very effective.

Personally, I drink a glass of GFJ about an hour beforehand along with my daily dose of DLPA and a Tagamet. 15 minutes later I will drink some Tonic Water along with my CVS backache and my dramamine. Alot of what I mentioned I either dont use because I dont like the way it impacts my body or I havent gotten around to using it. I do take a couple of tums during this timeframe too. I then usually have some coffee while I am waiting to take my Kratom dose. Also, these will not necessarily make the effects of Kratom stronger but maybe just last longer. Also, they may not work at all. It all depends on our body.

I want to make it clear that I do not suggest using all of these or even more than a few. One or two might be enough. I also HIGHLY suggest looking into these things before just using them and also see how they interact with any medications you are taking.

The Wikipedia site for the Cytochrome P450 enzyme has a lot of good info and this is the enzyme you want to slow down to make your experience last longer.

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thank you for the detailed potentiation information!
A Lot Of Potentiation Information Here
Amazing work writing this up. I tend to get shit for saying things without including sources, so I'd recommend keeping references handy when posting...

Last edited by PhiPack; 22-03-2013 at 07:08.
  #6  
Old 22-03-2013, 05:18
Li2CO3 Li2CO3 is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

thank you PhiPack for the detailed potentiation information (will have to experiment with a few of your methods I haven't yet), and everyone else for their input...I have much to learn.......

thought i'd pop back into this thread with a report of my second experience with circumin/kratom (it is happening in the present).

i did not use kratom yesterday and the day before used 5.6 grams, so my tolerance (which isn't prominent to begin with) may be slightly down. stomach was not very full prior to dosing but not completely empty, either (as is usual for me).

About an hour and a half ago I swallowed one circumin capsule.

roughly fifteen minutes ago, 3.6 grams of Green Riau kratom (somewhat weaker but similar qualitatively to Green Malaysian) were weighed out and shaken up in a water bottle with cranberry cocktail. I chugged down around 5/8 of the mixture, probably only containing 2-2.5 grams or so of kratom.

I have to say that, incredibly, the effects are quite strong. my typical dose range is around 5-8 grams, and right now it feels like I've taken at least 7 grams.

at first I thought I noticed a trace of the negative side effects I mentioned in my above post; however, I'm pretty sure it was just slight anxiety(possibly due to the association between taking the circumin capsule + kratom and the negative side effects I experienced last time), because really I just feel good now...

I'm really in awe of how little I took and the effects I'm experiencing. not even sure that i'll finish the bottle, or might when the feeling starts to taper off.

I'm not sure whether taking circumin capsules would be a money-saver in the long run - I didn't purchase the capsules myself (they were given to me by a friend after breaking my wrist trying to defend a belligerently drunk First Nations Canadian from being hog-tied...but that's another story....) and so am not sure how much they would cost to use on a regular basis. I buy my kratom in bulk and so each dose is extremely cheap already. However, for those who don't buy in bulk, so far this has proven to be an excellent potentiation method, far exceeding my expectations!!
  #7  
Old 22-03-2013, 07:06
PhiPack PhiPack is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

I am been doing some specific research on potentiators for Kratom. That list is a list I have accumulated for Opioids over time with tumeric and cayenne pepper added in. My ex-wife has been trying my Kratom and not having any luck at all with it like I have. So, I was looking into the specific metabolism of Kratom and found that it is similar to Hydrocodone so I need to add some things and also correct some info above.

The CYP2D6 enzyme processes the Kratom into an active metabolite that will give you the effects such as analgesic, euphoric, nootopic, etc. So, you do not want to inhibit this enzyme and may even want to induce it, especially if you are one of the 6 to 10 percent who have problems with this enzyme working (some dont have it and they are going to struggle feeling anything from a lot of different substances). However, there are not many inducers that are not rare prescriptions such Glutethimide which is a hypnotic sedative. But, Valerian Root is an inducer that you can get. The problem is that it has sedative properties as it is used to treat insomnia and anxiety. You can probably pick it up at an herb shop or vitamin store. I've read about people using it and getting the liquid you put on your tongue with good results.

If you have a good work CYP2D6 enzyme and very little tolerance where Kratom hits you fast and strong, you may want to inhibit a little so the come on is more gradual and the overall experience from start to finish goes longer. If you do that, I would suggest you do twice as many inhibiting of the following enyzme.

CYP3A4 is the enzyme which cleans Kratom out of your system and will allow the Kratom experience to end sooner. So, you want to inhibit this guy so more of Kratom is processed as an active metabolite and it stays active for as long as possible.

The good thing is that CYP3A4 has a lot of inhibitors. Although some of them are also inhibits 2D6 so you have to be careful. The following are easy to get things that inhibit 3A4: Black Pepper (at least 4 grams), Green Tea, Clove essential oil, Dillapiole (this is suppose to be one of the most potent inhibitors of 3AF and comes from a plant related to Watercress listed above but apparently is very hard to find. ), ginger (probably make some ginger tea and ginger is cheap at the grocery store), Glabridin which is found in licorice, milk thistle which is listed above, peperine which is found in black pepper and you can get an extract of it, Callumus Oil, Cinnamon (Sticks or Bark is best), Curcumin (found in tumeric), Kava, Quercetin which is found in many fruits and vegetables (wiki it to get a list), Tagament (also dose 2D6), Prozac, both star fruit and grape fruit but it also does 2D6 as well as does Goldenseal.

Dramamine, St. John's Wort, and tonic water are 2D6 inhibitors so you may not want to use them for Kratom unless you get your desired effects easily and quickly already. GFJ and Tagament inhibit both but I am not sure if it does one more than the other.

I am going to keep digging and come up with a better guide along with some stats on the inhibition levels. Many of the other things listed in my previous post are potentiators for other reasons than enzyme interaction so they may still work. Everyone is different so you never know.

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thanks for the correction; very important
  #8  
Old 22-03-2013, 08:25
Rob Cypher Rob Cypher is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiPack View Post
Here is a list of known Kratom and opioid poteniators that I put together for another board. These arent all but some that I have used and some that other people have used that I know work well. They all either inhibit the P450 enzymes or impact the acidity level of your intestinal track.

Hello! I have been browsing the forums for a bit reading info about Kratom. I saw this thread and thought I would contribute. I took opioid pain killers for years and spent a lot of time researching potentiators from them. I am using Kratom to get off them and manage my pain a healthier way So, here is some info:

2) DXM is a very high potentiator but it is also a good way to turn your experience into something unpleasant. If you are like me, it makes you loopy and feel kinda dirty. It just makes me want to lay down. If you are going to take it, Coricidin Cough and Cold for people with High Blood Pressure is a good way. It's a small dose and shouldnt make you too drowsy. I personally am not a fan but my body doesnt do well with DXM.
I would strongly recommend against using Coricidin for the purposes of administering DXM; the added antihistamine can make some delirious (especially if used more than once a week).

Otherwise, I see that you've done your homework (even corrected yourself on a few other entries). Nice job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiPack View Post
The Wikipedia site for the Cytochrome P450 enzyme has a lot of good info and this is the enzyme you want to slow down to make your experience last longer.
This is also a good list: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/loc...9&linkid=12477

(There was one already uploaded, but it was somewhat out of date [1999]; this one is a bit more up to date [2007])

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TY for mentioning safety concern!

Last edited by Rob Cypher; 22-03-2013 at 09:42.
  #9  
Old 22-03-2013, 23:48
PhiPack PhiPack is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Cypher View Post
I would strongly recommend against using Coricidin for the purposes of administering DXM; the added antihistamine can make some delirious (especially if used more than once a week).

Otherwise, I see that you've done your homework (even corrected yourself on a few other entries). Nice job.
That particular antihistimine is known to be a good combo for potentiation of opioids along with the DXM. I dont use it because I cant stand how any cold medicine makes me feel. I definitely wouldnt recommend making a habit of using DXM but for an occasional use for a good experience, I dont see an issue with it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Cypher View Post
This is also a good list: http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/loc...9&linkid=12477

(There was one already uploaded, but it was somewhat out of date [1999]; this one is a bit more up to date [2007])
I've seen that list but it is mostly pharmaceuticals. I prefer more natural things like supplements and I am building a pretty good list of stuff. I will post it when I am done. Most of the things you can order from Vitamin stores or herb stores.

Last edited by PhiPack; 22-03-2013 at 23:53.
  #10  
Old 26-03-2013, 13:50
seaturtle seaturtle is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

I took 1.2 grams of ground Circumin root powder (in 3 capsules) along with 4.5 grams of Kratom yesterday and it definitely hit me stronger than expected. I was aiming for only a moderate Kratom experience but ended up quite sedated. I had forgotten about Circumin being a Kratom potentiator at the time, I was taking it for its MAOI properties to enhance a mushroom trip. Will post details here once I experiment again, without mushrooms of course. Got a whole bottle of Circumin capsules for cheap.

Seems like this a very useful herb, it's an MAOI, acts on the NMDA receptors, and might potentiate opiates. Surprised I didn't hear about it until recently.

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TY for reporting your experience of using this combo!

Last edited by seaturtle; 26-03-2013 at 13:56.
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Old 27-03-2013, 23:28
seaturtle seaturtle is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

I took 0.4 g of Circumin root powder (1 capsule) before taking 9 grams of Bali Kratom today. 9 grams is a large dose for me, but I used to take 10-11 grams at a time until a month ago, so it isn't a crazy dose for me. I've also been chipping at Poppy Seed Tea again, so my tolerance ain't as low as it could be.

Anyways I was intensely sedated 2 hours after taking the Kratom, to the point that I had no choice but to lie down. It felt great though, similar to the first time I did Kratom. I went to sleep for 5 hours (in the middle of the day! but thankfully there's no work today), and still feel nicely opiated as I type this and it's been 7 hours. Not just afterglow, I am legitimately still high on Kratom, and I haven't even smoked Cannabis in many hours.

I've never had this much success with other potentiators, including cimetidine, grape fruit juice, DXM, and DPH. I will continue to use Circumin since it doesn't seem to deduct from the high or change it into something else, just makes it stronger and longer. Next experiment I'm going to try a 3-5 gram dose and around a gram of Circumin, and see if I can get a nod from what would typically be a small dose for me.
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Old 27-03-2013, 23:31
ratgirldjh ratgirldjh is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

Just wanted to add that turmeric also lowers blood sugar - and in some instances a lot. Kratom can also lower blood sugar by delaying the emptying of the stomach.

Perhaps this could be what led to the shaking and feeling cold when you tried it.

I have diabetes and actually use turmeric daily to help lower my blood sugar. I have to be very careful with it because even 1/4 teaspoon can send my blood sugar very low and shaking, feeling cold, sweating, etc. are all symptoms of low blood sugar.

Both kratom and turmeric lower my blood sugar remarkably and I have to make sure to eat enough carbs when I take kratom especially when I have taken turmeric.

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Good information, something to consider.
enlightening observation that may shed some light on which folks would best benefit from taking turmeric with kratom
  #13  
Old 28-03-2013, 02:19
ianzombie ianzombie is nu online
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratgirldjh View Post
Just wanted to add that turmeric also lowers blood sugar - and in some instances a lot. Kratom can also lower blood sugar by delaying the emptying of the stomach.

Perhaps this could be what led to the shaking and feeling cold when you tried it.
This is interesting.
It could have a lot to do with it.

On top of that too much kratom can produce 'jitters' which is a common side effect similiar to when someone takes too much caffeine.

Many people also go to extremes when it comes to taking kratom on an empty stomach, and they can be weak with hunger by the time the kratom has kicked in, and as kratom can suppress the appetite people often go even longer without eating.

I would imagine that a combination of two or more of the above could be responsible for a lot of the side effects such as shaking.
  #14  
Old 08-05-2013, 16:29
badman62 badman62 is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

I was using tagemet and grapefruit juice,and while the effects may have lasted a bit longer, i think i was loosing some of the euphoric feeling. I had thought maybe this was just tolerance, but i stopped using both, and instead went to black seed oil and turmeric.

I also used a bit of cats claw every 2-3 days which may have had an effect,
but i am much happier getting a much more euphoric feeling with my meds taking oxy 15mg,
- and 4-6 grams of Kratom between doses.

Turmeric is much stronger i think, than most people have been giving it credit.
Black seed oil also works VERY well, but is much more expensive.
taken together they are awesome!

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Thanks for sharing opinion (experience, right?) of using this combo, as well as suggesting a positive augmentation.
  #15  
Old 09-05-2013, 18:57
Rob Cypher Rob Cypher is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

Apparently turmeric does work well after all. Every kratom user I know who has tried it now swears by it - and some say it seems to relieve pressure off of damaged pancreases (they can actually feel something 'dislodge' itself over a period of time, although that just might be past damage-related persistent swelling that the turmeric might be reducing (perhaps it also works on pancreatic scar tissue? That was my first thought, to be honest). Frankly, it might be worth pursing on its own merits, kratom or not. And it's relatively inexpensive considering how much money it saves those who are persistent kratom users, IMO - it seems to allow folks to reduce their usage (and therefore cost) by 25-50%...that's a rough estimate based on folks who told me the difference between their pre and post-turmeric kratom-related bills, so YMMV.

I'm actually trying to get (non-kratom using) loved ones with diabetes to use it regularly, but they keep forgetting to do it even though they notice relief from high blood sugar within an hour or so.

Tolerance to its synergistic effects with kratom appears to be slow to develop, which is a good thing as well for some (most folks don't have to go over 2x their initial turmeric dose even after weeks to months of usage, it appears).
  #16  
Old 09-05-2013, 19:04
ianzombie ianzombie is nu online
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

Im not too keen on it myself (Tumeric).
It certainly lengthens the effect but i always feel that it puts a limit on the effects too. Its almost like it takes it like an elastic band and stretches it out, making it longer but not as thick.
  #17  
Old 10-05-2013, 00:04
DiabolicScheme DiabolicScheme is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

DXM can be a tricky beast, sometimes it will change the kratom high into a dysphoric experience and other times it will work great. I know I was recommending just 30mg for potentination but I actually find a mere 15 mg about an hour before kratom use to work even better.

Some others that haven't been mentioned here include:

Huperzine A - again, believed to work through NMDA receptors, albeit minor in comparison to some of the others but its definitely there. 400mcg recommended.

Piracetam - I could swear by this stuff but I'm not sure if it is because it just so happens to have anti-depressive effects in some people that can add to the enjoyment of kratom or if it has some sort of tolerance reducing actions on say the NMDA receptors. Doses I use here are pretty high, usually 3 to 4 grams twice a day. Choline may be required if you are sensitive to headaches

I am going to take a shot at circumin and take it a step further and add Biopernine which reportedly increases absorption of certain nutrients including circumin. I will update here to let you know my experience.
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Old 10-05-2013, 04:48
Rob Cypher Rob Cypher is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianzombie View Post
Im not too keen on it myself (Tumeric).
It certainly lengthens the effect but i always feel that it puts a limit on the effects too. Its almost like it takes it like an elastic band and stretches it out, making it longer but not as thick.
Hmmm. Could you elaborate on how it changed the tone of the kratom experience? I know somebody who got into the routine of taking turmeric before kratom and they noticed that going back to the pre-turmeric method seemed like it was a step down from what they had gotten used to.

I do believe that you aren't getting quite the boost some others have from it though, and I have a theory why; it must be somehow helping pancreases that are working at sub-optimal levels for whatever reason (disease, immune disorder, alcoholism, or just someone who had a penchant for drinking OTC stuff with tons of fake sugars that man probably was not meant to ingest in a 8-16 oz. concoction, much less enjoy doing so 2-3x a week). And we all know diabetes is also the sign of a pancreas that isn't quite working right for a number of possible reasons, although only 2% of it actually makes insulin. Which scares me because I'm pretty sure I've scarred up a hell of a lot more area than that in my dark times, but (knock on wood) my blood sugar has always been fine when sober.

Are there any kratom users with diabetes or some other pancreatic issues who have used turmeric and kratom and would like to weigh on their experiences and thoughts? For constrast's sake, what about you users that don't have recurring bouts of pancreatitis (from whatever) or diabetes in general.

Maybe we're on to something here. Of course, I'm sure the next two stories will be from folks who'll pop holes in my hypothesis until it sinks into oblivion. I'm just spinning my somewhat tired wheels here trying to find commonalities (where there may be none, really; but I'll be open to the idea of wrong so long as someone can find the right idea instead. I'm also trying to avoid conformation bias errors that one can easily make while defending their idea or looking for support without considering all other possibilities as well. So let's have at it with the numerous turmeric/kratom combo stories that are sure to come within the next 6 months or so as some people will find that a good way to offset the increased cost thanks to recent bans that prevent it from being exported from a major producing country. Don't be shy!

Last edited by Rob Cypher; 10-05-2013 at 04:53.
  #19  
Old 10-05-2013, 13:50
ianzombie ianzombie is nu online
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Cypher View Post
Hmmm. Could you elaborate on how it changed the tone of the kratom experience? I know somebody who got into the routine of taking turmeric before kratom and they noticed that going back to the pre-turmeric method seemed like it was a step down from what they had gotten used to.
Well for me when i take kratom on its own i get a slow onset that starts at about the 20 minute mark (toss and wash) with a feeling in my stomach that climbs up through my chest and into my arms and then my head, its a very relaxed sensation that is quite pleasant. There is very mild euphoria, unfortunately i no longer get the intense euphoria i used to when i started. It reaches a peak about an hour after this and remains like this for about an hour before it starts to subside slowly over the next 3 hours.

When i take Tumeric i never quite reach the same level before i peak, i get to about 80% of the intensity that i usually feel but when i do reach that level it lasts for longer.

The overall duration lasts maybe an hour longer when i have taken tumeric.
It is as if the reduction in intensity is a pay off for a longer experience.

Im not sure if i am explaining it well.
The analogy i used in my previous post of the elastic band sort of sums it up.

I suppose i could compare it to drinking.
If i had a small bottle of vodka and i drank them at once i would get pretty drunk.
If i took a shot every hour i would not get as drunk but i could remain on a level of drunkenness for a lot longer. Taking the Tumeric has the effect on me with kratom that it lasts longer but i dont get as high.

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Interesting stuff regarding your experience with turmeric!
  #20  
Old 10-05-2013, 23:34
badman62 badman62 is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

Rob Cypher

I think you are on to something with the sugar and pancreas.
I take coffee and sugar with my Kratom
(and turmeric and black seed oil)
I think when the sugar wears off, so does the euphoria.
and i think the black seed oil also helps with the pancreas and sugar regulation.
Maybe thats why those 2 seem to work so well for me together.

  #21  
Old 11-05-2013, 03:10
ianzombie ianzombie is nu online
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

Ive been talking to my local Asian shopkeeper about black seed oil and he swears that it is worth the money as it is an all around great thing. Its good for everything apparently.
Ill pick some up this week.
Maybe someone can recomed a good starting dose.
  #22  
Old 11-05-2013, 04:10
Rob Cypher Rob Cypher is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

This thread has been on fire so far with the supplement suggestions. Turmeric by itself seems to be helping reduce pancreas-related discomfort/pain...I use digestive enzymes for heavier meals as well to help ease pancreas discomfort; I'd use them daily but they give me the worst farts if taken daily, it seems.

Definitely will try black seed oil as well if it's relatively inexpensive (which turmeric has been, thankfully).

Last edited by Rob Cypher; 11-05-2013 at 04:59.
  #23  
Old 15-05-2013, 01:48
DiabolicScheme DiabolicScheme is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

Ok so its finally time to put my report in.

Male, 29 yrs, 160-170 lbs (fluctuates), 5'10"
Other drugs taken: Venlafaxine
00:00 - black pepper fruit extract (piperine) taken @ 20mg
+00:20 - Circumin taken @ 1000 mg
+00:50 - Bali Kratom taken at 12grams, actually cut down about 6 grams "just in case" it blows me off my rocker.
+01:30 - Kratom starts out its usual feeling of good feelings of well-being
+02:30 - Realized that kratom has not ran into its peak but is maintaining the feeling of well being but not full blown euphoria, it seems like Circumin has put a ceiling on the effect of kratom.
+04:00 - Still feelings of well being and a bit more talkative than normal, I feel the need to socialize which is a contradiction to my typical personality of being quiet. Always loved the talkative boost.
+06:00 - Effects feel like they are wearing down now, slowly going back down to baseline.
+08:00 - Kratom still seems to be active but not psychoactive, in other words I haven't started to experience typical withdrawal symptom of fatigue that I normally get. Which seems to support the idea that circumin may delay the elimination of kratom.

Conclusion: Circumin seems to moderate the high making the peak less but also making the kratom longer lasting. I actually liked the prolonging of the high even if it hurt the peak and it really seems that circumin boosts mood perhaps through its mild MAO-A inhibiting properties?

I ran a second test with Circumin @ 1.5grams and the experience was relatively the same as the first, a mild mood boost, elongated high of kratom but hurt the peak.

I may run a third test with 2 grams to see how it goes, unfortunately cutting out venlafaxine is not really a option right now both for my depression and the withdrawal syndrome that makes me highly agitated which would negate the test results anyway.

It didn't boost the high but rather seemed to change it. Some people will like it, others will probably hate it. Its worth the try. On a note I would recommend people get a piperine containing product in order to enhance the bioavailability of Circumin as it does have a relatively poor bio-availability on its own.

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Good experience report. Thanks for sharing.
  #24  
Old 15-05-2013, 01:51
ianzombie ianzombie is nu online
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

That seems pretty similar to my experiences, not sure if you read them above but would you say they are the same?

It seems to stretch the effects but i do not get as 'high' (hate using that word) as usual.
I almost feel as if there is something pushing it down.
  #25  
Old 15-05-2013, 01:59
DiabolicScheme DiabolicScheme is offline
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Re: Circumin as a kratom potentiator?

Yeah pretty much the same but I can't help to feel some sort of uniqueness with it, it seems to add a boost in mood, not necessarily more euphoric but less depressed if you get what I mean?

I'm definitely going to experiment a little bit more with this such as time adjustments and dose adjustments. Certainly like the aspect of the delayed withdrawals which could keep me from having to re-dose at work.

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