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Opiate addiction Support for coping with Opiate addiction and Opiate addiction treatment.

 
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  #1  
Old 01-03-2013, 02:08
Nostalgic Nostalgic is offline
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How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

This is the only thing I care about. I can take all the physical withdrawal symptoms. In fact, I'm already over all of them. Today is day 10 I'm clean and I don't feel anything physical anymore. But now I'm once again depressed and unmotivated. I take blues on and off as a form of self medication for just being unhappy all the time.

It's very hard for me to distinguish if I'm still "down" because the roxys messed up my brains natural dopamine transmitters, or if I'm just naturally depressed. If I'm still depressed because the of the whole dopamine thing, then I'll be more motivated to wait it out. Otherwise, I just want to do one once in a while - like today when I have a craving. And I have the self control to only do one once a week or so (I've gone months doing that, and I can have self control to keep it that way).

So do you think it's alright to take one on the weekend when I go out to improve my social life? Or should I wait because it takes more than 10 days for my brain to naturally produce dopamine? And does doing one completely reset the replenishing of dopamine or does it barely effect it? To give you an idea of the amount I'm taking - it's been very inconsistant over the past 3 years or so. I'll go months without doing any, then a month doing 1 a day, then a month doing 1 a week, then a month doing none. It's very sporadic but it's never been very bad.

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Great work on 10 days clean and honesty about post withdrawal depression
  #2  
Old 01-03-2013, 02:20
Diabolicaldoll Diabolicaldoll is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

It takes a lot longer than ten days before you start feeling "normal" happy feelings. Just because you don't use everyday of every week of every month doesn't mean you're going to recover quickly.

If you're so desperate to feel normal again, to acatually be happy and satisfied with the small things in life without drug use then it's quite simple, there should be no drug use. Not even one pill of a weekend. You seem as if you're wanting to be happy with life naturally, so I'm not going to advise you to "just use at weekends". It never really just works like that though does it? I know it and you know it. More often than not those "just weekends" slowly start spreading into Monday, then eventually Tuesday or you may even have a "long weekend" by starting in Thursday.

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Excellent point. Feeling "Normal" (without drugs) includes swings in mood and emotion. Happiness is also in constant emotional flux.
  #3  
Old 01-03-2013, 02:41
Nostalgic Nostalgic is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diabolicaldoll View Post
It takes a lot longer than ten days before you start feeling "normal" happy feelings. Just because you don't use everyday of every week of every month doesn't mean you're going to recover quickly.

If you're so desperate to feel normal again, to acatually be happy and satisfied with the small things in life without drug use then it's quite simple, there should be no drug use. Not even one pill of a weekend. You seem as if you're wanting to be happy with life naturally, so I'm not going to advise you to "just use at weekends". It never really just works like that though does it? I know it and you know it. More often than not those "just weekends" slowly start spreading into Monday, then eventually Tuesday or you may even have a "long weekend" by starting in Thursday.

Thanks.

If you had to guess, how long would you think it takes for your brain to be completely back to normal in terms of naturally producing chemicals after you take the last pill? I'm a very analytical numbers guy, and knowing an amount like say "21 days" will help me and motivate me and will definitely make me stick to being clean.
  #4  
Old 01-03-2013, 02:46
Frmrjunkie Frmrjunkie is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

According to Dr. Richard Rosenthal (internet source - pain management doctor in Provo, UT)

"Some people recover fairly quickly (as soon as 2 weeks). Some take longer, up to 6 months. It depends on the medication taken, the dose and how long it was taken"

linked to: https://www.healthtap.com/#user_ques...ter-opiate-use

Stick it out Nostalgic, it WILL get better! Try taking up some exercise & even hobbies that you enjoy to supplement your own, natural dopamine levels.

Last edited by Frmrjunkie; 01-03-2013 at 03:02.
  #5  
Old 01-03-2013, 03:07
Nostalgic Nostalgic is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frmrjunkie View Post
According to Dr. Richard Rosenthal (internet source - pain management doctor in Provo, UT)

"Some people recover fairly quickly (as soon as 2 weeks). Some take longer, up to 6 months. It depends on the medication taken, the dose and how long it was taken"

Stick it out Nostalgic, it WILL get better! Try taking up some exercise & even hobbies that you enjoy to supplement your own, natural dopamine levels.

Thanks. I work out every day. It's just a bug out not knowing if I'm depressed cause of this chemical shit or if I'm depressed because of other reasons.
  #6  
Old 01-03-2013, 03:23
outside365 outside365 is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

Your thingy up there says your 22, so your young. Your body can still bounce back. If you eat and get exercise. Btw sex is good exercise. Anyway all I'm saying is I bet in 30 days, maybe less, you could be getting into that normal range. Maybe be prepared for the occasional depressed feeling. Once one enters opiates' lovely, warm house, its almost impossible to not come back to visit once more. Expect to maybe, have cravings indefinitely. My advice, stay out of that house. It will get better. Maybe, look at the big picture too. Example if you stay clean, in one year you'll be proud and back to normal. I can tell you, first hand, long term opiate abuse is ugly and it Fucking sucks. Sorry to swear but I'm being honest about things. These are only suggestions man. Hope you stay clean. Good luck.
  #7  
Old 01-03-2013, 03:28
Nostalgic Nostalgic is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by outside365 View Post
Your thingy up there says your 22, so your young. Your body can still bounce back. If you eat and get exercise. Btw sex is good exercise. Anyway all I'm saying is I bet in 30 days, maybe less, you could be getting into that normal range. Maybe be prepared for the occasional depressed feeling. Once one enters opiates' lovely, warm house, its almost impossible to not come back to visit once more. Expect to maybe, have cravings indefinitely. My advice, stay out of that house. It will get better. Maybe, look at the big picture too. Example if you stay clean, in one year you'll be proud and back to normal. I can tell you, first hand, long term opiate abuse is ugly and it Fucking sucks. Sorry to swear but I'm being honest about things. These are only suggestions man. Hope you stay clean. Good luck.
I appreciate it, this is motivating. I think the only way to not have cravings anymore is to maybe forget what it feels like which may take 3-4 years.

Anyway, I'm gonna set a mark of 30 days for myself until my brain is totally replenished (true or not) - today is day 10.
  #8  
Old 01-03-2013, 03:47
Frmrjunkie Frmrjunkie is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

Do not intend to be Debbie Downer" here, but I'm 2 months shy of three years & have yet to forget. Although I'm a hell of a lot older than you. There is some new speculation that long term, low dose Naltrexone can repair opiate receptors back to zero.

All in all, you're doing fantastic & you should keep your resolve...stay away from that dope man! You'll get better every day. Took me a couple months, but I got there; got my energy back & ability to be happy sans opiates. If a 38 year old (then) fart can do it, so can you

Will edit in thread about Naltrexone shortly...
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=137577

Also searching for supporting articles

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Wise advice for a young user - good that you are devoting time to find information and links for the poster

Last edited by Frmrjunkie; 01-03-2013 at 04:02.
  #9  
Old 01-03-2013, 04:16
outside365 outside365 is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

You can do it. Frmjuncky is right, it will always be a part you. All I'm saying is once you have a plan go for it. I some did h for a few years and quit. And haven't looked back. For me, dwelling on the facts of withdraw, made me more depressed. I think you have a great head start and keep going. You got ten days, that's great. You won't always be up but the end game never changes. Good job man.
  #10  
Old 01-03-2013, 04:24
imquittingforgood imquittingforgood is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

My dog just wants to tell you that he used pills for the same reason as you. He was able to use controlled for two years until one day it started to be all the time. It sneaks up in you and then your screwed. If I were you I would just not use them.
When my fig only used them on the weekends if he skipped a weekend he always seemed to get his spark back in about ten days.
My dog has depression/anxiety though And that is something he will always deal with. It is one if the main reasons the pills did so much for him.
If my dog could go back in time he would punch himself in the face before letting him try one of these horrible life suckers!!! The Hugh is not worth the road it can and sooner or later will bring you down ..
  #11  
Old 01-03-2013, 04:38
c4nucKsens8tioN c4nucKsens8tioN is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

One of the times I rehabbed I went to a counselor that I knew on a personal level very well. We trained in martial arts together. He worked with many addicts over the years. He told me 3 months, that's the point when your brain either starts to really heal or is healed depending on how much you've used.

I used for 10 years and it took about 6 months before I felt like a human being again. And about a full year before I could say I felt "normal". Still think about opiates, its just finally gotten to the point where its not all day every day.

Hope this helps man.
  #12  
Old 01-03-2013, 05:12
BitterSweet BitterSweet is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

Congrats on the physical accomplishment. But with any drug, I feel like holding the thought of just doing it once in a while in your thought process is not going to end up anywhere good. It seems you have established you are not able to be a recreational user, and your use has ended up getting to the point where you are extremely depressed. Although this is largely a result of the brain's chemical process, and that there is a finite time for the brain to get back to normal, there will still be depression past this time, except that it might be more manageable since your dopamine levels aren't as depressed during your heavy use.

It sounds like you are falling into the pitfall that many of us, including myself, have when we think we have managed our drug use very well and that in your example, this 10 day progress and mental progress may seem like you can be at a point to control the use. You are better off just making a once and for all decision that you won't need to touch the stuff again. There are other ways to be social on the weekend (although I am not sure how it can make you social, but I suppose drugs really do affect everyone differently). I think you should look at the risk-reward side of trying to use once in a while. The risk, based on past behaviour, is high for developing extreme dependence again (they say the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour; makes sense). The best way that helps me to cope is taking it one day at a time - probably the only good piece of advice that came out of the 12 step program for me. When you look at the word forever, it's daunting, to never do something again. Also, if you give yourself permission to use once in a while, I can't imagine how you won't be counting down the days until you get to use.

This is how recreational use turns to something worse. You will be thinking about it so much if you tell yourself that on the weekend you will do it. Eventually you'll just tell yourself you can do a little bit before the weekend comes. For the social factor, the only "reward" from the risk-reward concept is being more social, but there are so many other ways to be social, and I think you are trying to find something good that can come out of the drug when deep down you know it is an excuse. And the risk side of it, like I said, is high. So if we were talking about investing in stocks, you could be a conservative investor, which would be ideal if on limited funds, or an investor that is not risk-adverse, who might end up losing everything.

I used dilaudid recreationally for 2 years before I started using opiates a lot more. After being a heavy user, there is no way a person can return back to the state of recreational. That one time on the weekend of feeling the euphoria of the drug will be enough to destroy a lot of your progress.

Do you know why your use pattern has been so strange? Such as using it sometimes for every day in a month to not using at all for a long time? I have a friend like that with alcohol - he will go a month without drinking, but when he does, he goes on a weekend bender. I don't really know what to make of such a use pattern. He knows he is an alcoholic, and he is depressed even if he isn't drinking. I suppose it just comes down to wanting to be happy. The way he abuses alcohol is a sign that something in his life needs changing.

Also, a lot of opiate users are honest about the amount of time it has taken them to really get back to normal, sometimes taking months or years. I say it is different for everyone in that don't get too consumed with the idea that it will take a very long time for you to get to a good state, but just taking it day by day is a mental process I like. Instead of looking at what you have to give up, look at what you are gaining. Addiction is always about quitting this and not having that; perhaps look at the things you can have now, regardless of how big or little you think your drug use is. I think the fact that there have been times where use has been up to daily use is enough evidence to see that happening again if you don't avoid this drug completely.

Best of luck, and best to do this when you are young.

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Excellent advice that gives the OP a lot to thing about, another perspective & real life examples
  #13  
Old 01-03-2013, 07:15
halo99 halo99 is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

also keep in mind that its not just dopamine but also serotonin that gets out of whack... the problem is that newest studies seem to point that opoid, dopamine and serotonin systems are interconnected and long term opiate use tends to throw everything out of whack to a certain degree...

the other thing that people dont really want to talk about is that fact that many people that use opiates may have actually gone to opiates *because* of pre-existing issues with their dopamine/serotonin pathways (e.g. depression)
  #14  
Old 01-03-2013, 14:33
oxyblue30 oxyblue30 is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

Dear sir or Ma'am,

Your brain is always producing dopamine as long as you are eating some very basic nutrition. That doesn't mean your baseline brain-dopaimne levels will make you feel normal.. I would recommend 3 months drug-free before expecting baseline dopamine levels to be sufficient to your liking (depending on which drug you are taking, as well as the equation (dose taken)*(time taken). But 3 months often does it. Great job on getting the first 10 days right. Great luck in the future!!! You're on the right path

-BLD

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Do not misrepresent your credentials. You do not possess a doctorate degree in pharmacology.

Last edited by Phenoxide; 28-04-2013 at 00:41.
  #15  
Old 01-03-2013, 16:31
Diabolicaldoll Diabolicaldoll is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
Thanks.

If you had to guess, how long would you think it takes for your brain to be completely back to normal in terms of naturally producing chemicals after you take the last pill? I'm a very analytical numbers guy, and knowing an amount like say "21 days" will help me and motivate me and will definitely make me stick to being clean.
I'm sorry but it would be stupid f me to give you n exact number of days, I simply cannot, nobody can.

The good thing is though you'll gradually start feeling better, it's not like you just wake up one day "cured", it's a progress. You'll slowly see yourself improve which in itself will give you motivation.
  #16  
Old 01-03-2013, 19:50
Jumpbunny Jumpbunny is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

As very newly recover my friend JB wants to say:

I find this topic interesting, not wondering specifically the number of days before your dopamine and seratonin replenish, but the roller coaster effect I seem to get - one day I'm depressed and moody, the next I'm laughing and happy. I'm sure it's probably because my system is just trying to get "reset" so to speak but you'd think your body and mind would just get slowly better instead of experiencing such highs and lows. I wonder what part of the process of getting clean controls that and why it fluctuates?
  #17  
Old 01-03-2013, 20:07
Frmrjunkie Frmrjunkie is offline
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Re: How long does it take to restore natural dopamine neurons?

If you're having days of happiness already then your brain is doing well to recover! I had fleeting moments of happiness the first few months without heroin with a lot of depression & lethargy the rest of the time. Little by little I noticed changes in my demeanor & really one day I hopped out of bed with a brand new outlook.

I'm no neuroscientist. It has something to do with the opiates flooding our brains with endorphins & seratonin, artificially. It just takes time for your brain to adjust to making & dealing with its own natural levels. Everyday your brain heals a little more. Though I'm not sure it ever completely recovers. 2 months shy of three years clean & I still occasionally think about getting high & I think if I were to relapse it wouldn't take long for my tolerance to become astronomically high again. Hopefully I'll never prove this theory!

Help yourself & brain produce & learn to love it's own feel good endorphins. Get exercise, eat well, pick up a hobby (as dorky as it is, a good crossword or jigsaw puzzle makes my day,) have sex, get a pet, go hiking, fishing, shopping...whatever piques your interest & makes you feel good. Look into the past, farther back than drugs, remember what you did for fun? Try it out again, you might be surprised how fun a snowball fight can be! Have also heard 5-HTP helps stimulate your brains natural healing process.

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dopamine, dopamine and addiction, dopamine and serotonin, heroin, serotonin, serotonin depletion, serotonin levels, withdrawal

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