CWE question: amount of water

[ReynardTheFox]

Hi all, enough lurking, first post!

SWIM has a question about CWE. Most CWE references I've found recommend using a small amount of water for the extraction. Exact amounts vary, but a typical example would be 50ml for 20 tablets.

SWIM doesn't get this. Surely using MORE water would be better?

Once the solution has been filtered, some of the remaining sludge will contain X (where X is what you want to extract) - and surely the amount of X in the sludge is proportional to the concentration of the solution? So you would get a better % extraction by using a weaker solution, ie more water?

No? Barking up wrong fish?

Thanks!

Reputation Comments on this post:

You read the rules: Hallelujah!

[Forthesevenlakes]

well, swiy won't need a huge amount of water to dissolve tablets, and its desirable to use no more water than necessary because swiy will have to drink the solution at the end. less water to dissolve tablets equals less swiy would have to choke down. at least, thats swim's perception of why less is more in this case. if swiy is unsure that he/she has a desirable yield at the end, swiy can always run the CWE again on the remaining precipitate.

Reputation Comments on this post:

quick and good response

[acexnx316]

Actually,

What SWIY should do is take whatever pills it is and crush them up into a fine powder. If it is APAP (Tylenol) you are trying to seperate, then SWIY should mix the powder into say a 100-125 F degree water. APAP is more soluble in cold water (Thus CWE), however when it is mixed with warm water first, it is allowed to expand more since that is how the warm water is structured compared to cold. Anyway, SWIY should start with warm-hot water, disolve the powder, then place the liquid in a freezer for 30 minutes or so, right before it freezes, (Although letting it freeze may allow for even more solubility for the APAP). Then once it is a liquid again (At the coldest point possible), filter it with a coffee filter or whatever SWIY wants to use that is efficient. Repeat the process as necessary, and then SWIY can drink the filtered liquid or can plug (Release the liquid in your anal cavity) it with a needle-less syringe for an even more euphoric effect. The liquid requirements obviously vary as in how much APAP there is in a pill. For instance if SWIY is talking about Hydrocodone, SWIY is going to need more liquid for extracting 10 Vicodin (7.5mg Hydroconde/750mg APAP) than SWIY would need for extracting 10 Norco (10mg Hydrocodone/325mg APAP); obviously. More powder = more liquid. Just experiment. Obviously SWIY wants more liquid than powder, even more than what would make a sandy mixture since SWIY wants the APAP to be able to dissolve in the liquid as much as possible. SWIM would say maybe 1/4 cup of liquid per 1 gram (1000mg) or powder. Maybe more, maybe less, just experiment. SWIY isn't really going to end up ruining anything, if worse comes to worse, SWIY'll just have to do a 2nd or 3rd extraction. If it is something other than APAP that SWIY is trying to extract, then the process may vary. Please specify. HTH! Feel free to ask or PM SWIM any more questions!

Pz.

[buzzed64]

Newbie question:

If you stick whole pills (uncrushed) in hot water and swirl them around with a straw or spoon they will dissolve just the same.
If pills can be dissolved in water why do you have to crush them first?

[Wehr]

Originally Posted by buzzed64

Newbie question:

If you stick whole pills (uncrushed) in hot water and swirl them around with a straw or spoon they will dissolve just the same.
If pills can be dissolved in water why do you have to crush them first?

My inflatable sheep would think it would take considerably longer for a whole pill to disolve than powder would.

SwiYour reply to this thread is a little off topic from the ops original post and my sheep apologizes to anyone that may be concerned for replying to it.

[Stimulants]

Assuming the separation is of opiod salt from acetaminophen, ibuprofen or aspirin

SWIM saw a solubility chart somewhere that solubility increase of opioid is greater than APAP as a function of temperature, so room temperature water may actually provide better degree of isolation.

Either way, multiple washes increase the yield with the final wash having the greatest volume. APAP is not appreciably soluble in water, so using too much water is not particularly a great concern. Using minimum water decreases yield. The extract should be refrigerated to protect against spoilage. The binder contains corn starch and such, therefore it is subject to spoilage and molding.l

[porchy]

There are a lot of posts about this. Small amounts of water are used to minimize the amount of paracetamol/other undesirable compounds being dissolved in the water. Also warm/hot water is even more undesirable than large amounts of water as that would increase the amount of paracetamol dissolved in the water. There is no reason not to follow the sticky CWE tek exactly.

[Stimulants]

Originally Posted by porchy

There is no reason not to follow the sticky CWE tek exactly.

SWIM would hope not. We need more members here who think about what they're doing and understand it. We have too many who follows it to the text blindly and not understand why.

[nevelshaze]

swim doesnt know where sum ppl got their facts. but 1/4 of a cup for a gram? WTF? Omg lol. the more water the more apap. 100ml is 1 gam apap. 1g is a large dose and not good to take at once. thats why less amounts of water equal less apap.

keep the water cold if youve crushed it into power as more codeine will dissolve and less apap will be soluable. swims warning new cwe'ers to be very careful . IF you are going to be useing alot of water, then dont try and be fast about your cwe process.
more water should be filtered more times. with less water less filtrations are needed since your not filtering as much and its easier to see if your end result it murky or clear. if your useing more water and your end result is a bit murky or blurry. FILTER AGAIN. theres alot of apap that can get in there. be careful.

from swims experiance 50ml is fine for up to 35 pills and 60-75 ml is enough for 40-50 pill but even these measurments are from swims cwe's and other ppl's advise and they too arnt proven or certain to be the best or safest. just aa guideline.

swims still not sure about whats the minimum water required for 300-350 mg of codeine to be dissolved completely at a temp of around 10-5 C