Meditation

[robin_himself]

I'm interested in Meditation but I read and heard that there are lots and lots of techniques and styles where in one can meditate. So what is your "meditation religion"? Or do you have your own? What is your daily routine in meditation? How do SWIY meditate on drugs? Do you have advice for the meditating newb?

[djama]

Originally Posted by robin_himself

Do you have advice for the meditating newb?

The simplest form of meditation involves directing your attention. For this purpose it is useful to divide the function of the mind into 2 parts: one processing information and one receiving.

In meditation you try to direct 100% of your attention into the receiving function, ie perception. Try not to process any info at all simply perceive.

Often people turn their perception onto the sensation of the body or the process of the breath since these things are always with us and it has a beneficial side-effect of stabilising the breath and harmonising the body.

One of the great difficulties in the beginning often comes after some success. Once your mind thinks that you know how to meditate it will try to replicate the process. That is processing not perceiving and a hole almost everyone falls in.

Good luck - remember perception only.

Reputation Comments on this post:

great advise... thank you!

[Alicia]

It all takes practice, there are many different ways of doing. I myself prefer staring at a candle, not focusing on anything else but the flicker of the flame. (This is obviously placed somewhere where there is no risk of fire).
Some people close there eyes when they meditate as the environment comes of as to distracting, for me it works. Boyo will sit cross legged, eyes closed, listening to a slow and surreal vocal song as he his breathing in, ignore all thoughts and feelings letting it flow through u.

Regarding using meditation with substances, swia can say that weed is a great start. There are specific religious uses for weed with meditation . also stimulant drugs would be silly to try it on. psilocybin mushrooms even if the dose is low, can greatly enchance and allow ego loss to follow much more quickly. then afterward the mushroom experince, next not condoning of course peyote buttons,or mescaline. LSD is possible on but much more stimulated swia herself has'nt tried.

Learn how to meditate, in which form suits you best. then practice that same technique with the substance you choose to use. have fun

floatation tanks are also fun for exploring... hmmm wonder what dolphin taste like?

Reputation Comments on this post:

good advise thank you!

[robin_himself]

Originally Posted by djama

The simplest form of meditation involves directing your attention. For this purpose it is useful to divide the function of the mind into 2 parts: one processing information and one receiving.

In meditation you try to direct 100% of your attention into the receiving function, ie perception. Try not to process any info at all simply perceive.

Often people turn their perception onto the sensation of the body or the process of the breath since these things are always with us and it has a beneficial side-effect of stabilising the breath and harmonising the body.

One of the great difficulties in the beginning often comes after some success. Once your mind thinks that you know how to meditate it will try to replicate the process. That is processing not perceiving and a hole almost everyone falls in.

Good luck - remember perception only.

The problem I have is that my mind really keeps on clenching onto processing of my thoughts... for example when I realize that i'm pretty far I start processing and then i'm back at the beginning...

Or when I try to get my mind calm and concentrate on my breathe... A thought somehow slipps into the mind and I try to ignore it but then I'm already processing again... its like a cycle..

[djama]

Originally Posted by robin_himself

A thought somehow slipps into the mind and I try to ignore it but then I'm already processing again... its like a cycle..

That is well described and it is a cycle. If you endeavour to push the thought from your mind or 'ignore' these are both processes and again you are trapped - the trick is to place your attention on some perception - it doesnt have to be your breath, it can be the sky, candle flame, whatever but you focus your attention on the perception of something not on the repression of the process.

There is a Greek Myth about a creature called Medusa who turns people into stone when they look at her. This is a poetic representation of this process - if you turn to face the process and deal with it directly you are hooked - it is by turning away and placing your attention on something else that you are invulnerable.

There is also in this myth the tale of the slaying of Medusa wherein Perseus uses a mirror but this refers to a much more advanced stage which is both separate and engaged - for the time being just try to practice keeping the attention focussed on perception. Everytime you find your attention has been attracted away gently return it. And dont be drawn into the process of beating yourself up because you fail - that also is a process - being drawn into process happens to everyone, it is natural.

Meditation at this stage is largely a rest and respite from the rut running of habitual thought although all such respite starts to weaken the walls of the ruts.

[robin_himself]

A new question that I have come across is: "what's a good daily meditation routine?" when does is it really get effective for you guys? I know that it depends on the person and there really isn't a fixed time you should practice it...

and also Djama... I'm really interested in your "meditation carreer". I find your posts to be enlighting and really great. Which spiritual path did you walk? If i'm getting to private... i'm sorry. (not PMing this because others MUST find it terribly interesting!)

[Silence_Inc]

my meditation is -

anything you think or say can and will be used against yourself.

so choose well!

and don't bother any mistake ...

acctually - my meditation = don't bother!

i heard some young kid say this somewhere ...

" mind over matter - if you don't mind it, it doesn't matter "

[djama]

Originally Posted by robin_himself

"what's a good daily meditation routine?"
Djama... I'm really interested in your "meditation carreer". I find your posts to be enlighting and really great. Which spiritual path did you walk?

Generally, Meditation is most beneficially practiced upon awakening in the morning. The idea is to get in before ‘The Commentator’ is fully enthroned. I would recommend a range of 10-20mins starting toward the lower end and working up. Be wary of the common tendency to substitute pleasant dreams for unfiltered, uncontaminated, open-ended perception. If you find your personal limit is about 12mins then that is what you do and try to increase.

Like most things a middle-ground is most productive, so you do not let yourself off too easily nor demand too much. 10 minutes of unsullied perception is much better than 20 minutes of daydreaming. And expect it to be a process of falling down and getting up again just like the processes of learning to walk or riding a bike were.

It is also a good complementary practice to take some quiet time in the evening to just look back on the day and, in a journal, record the significant events of the day faithfully, ie without inventing, avoiding, exaggerating or diminishing anything.

Meditation is an exercise – just like any other exercise it is designed to liberate and strengthen a function for life. Its aim goes beyond the meditation room – we do it so that we can be more free, more controlled and more intelligent in life. There is limited value in it if it only ever gives a person liberation while they are meditating but that is where everyone has to start – liberation, even is the quiet conditions of a private space is difficult enough. My teacher used to say, ‘you must learn to handle the canoe competently in still water before you can hope to keep it afloat through the rapids.’

Personally, I spent 18 years in an esoteric yoga school. These are quite different from the yoga schools that operate in almost every sizeable town in the West. They do not advertise, they have no listing in the phone book, no web page, there are no signs on the buildings – even our next door neighbors did not know we were a yoga school. Most people who attend such schools stay for 20-25 years so it is fundamentally different from the local yoga classes where different people may come and go each week. While rare, such schools do exist in the West although only major cities are large enough to support them.

My line goes back through Gurdjieff who called his form ‘Haida Yoga’ or often just ‘the Work’ – although it needs to be understood that true esoteric work is always changing its form and particularly its name. Whenever a great breakthrough is made, a teacher naturally attracts ‘followers’ who by their nature seek to describe, define and codify the system which inadvertently rigidifies it. I liken this process to people being shown a cloud of wonderful butterflies, so they catch the butterflies, put pins through them, arrange them in alphabetical order and exhibit them under glass. The butterflies are still the same butterflies – the colors are the same but the spirit of the cloud is gone.

True esoteric work is a living thing, it propagates in generations and evolves like all other living things, therefore it is always being reinvented, being re-liberated and almost always being ‘renamed’. The regular renaming is almost universal because follower-types are usually very aggressive when it comes to protecting their the form and the name is the most obvious piece of form that can be ‘protected’. On the other hand the people who truly understand are much more concerned with protecting the spirit of the work.

If you would like some recommended reading a good start is P D Ouspensky’s – In Search of the Miraculous although a good deal of that material (especially the scientific analogies) are now quite dated. Ouspensky was as student of Gurdjieff (my teacher was a student of both Gurdjieff and Ouspensky).

I think the best representation of the modern generation of this work is found in the books of Robert Martin Duff who, among other things, ties the experiences of mystics and the effects of modern synthetic drugs like LSD and MDMA together. I particularly recommend A Different Future although The End of All Evil is much more accessible. Good luck.

Reputation Comments on this post:

[hh339]

I have not been meditating for very long, but lately I have been having some outstanding experiences. Now what I don't know is if I'm doing it right, or if the things I have been feeling is something other than what I'm supposed to feel. I can say for certain that I have managed to stay clear of thoughts most of the time, and that I have been "focusing" on perception. After maybe 15 minutes I feel like my mind is melting into different shapes, but no symmetric ones, and it never really stops moving. It almost feels like a roller-coaster ride in my head, and my body feels extremely light and calm. It actually is quite trippy, and afterwards I feel so good that I almost dance around instead of walking around. I kind of doubt that this is how it's supposed to be, but whatever the hell I'm doing it is AWESOME! Now what am I doing, am I meditating? Or am I getting myself in some other sort of state? I'm quite new to this, so a few words from someone experienced would be nice. Oh, robin_himself, I put this question here intentionally because I reckon you could perhaps benefit from it as well, otherwise I would not have broken into your thread. lol

[djama]

Originally Posted by hh339

am I meditating?

Concentration on perception is a form of meditation - if you are doing that you are meditating. The effects are subjective not everyone will get the same effects that you do and you will not get the same effects every time.

Release from the rut running of usual thought can bring a kind of joy as the weight of imaginary negatives evaporates however it is important to realise that it is unlikely that you will continue to get this effect long term and be ready for when it becomes more challenging. I advise you to concentrate your perception on your breath - this will tend to condense the energy inside you and make your spirit stronger. At the moment is sounds as if the energy liberated is spent in exuberance - which is not bad but you may have a better use for it.

Also there could be residual effects from psychoactive chemicals still lingering in your system which require little to trigger. I cannot comment on that as I dont know you well enough but if you indulge it is a definite possibility.

I hope this has been of assistance.

[bewilderment]

Alright, I have returned to this practice after dabbling in it about two or so years ago. I've only begun practicing for a few days now, but feel sort of bored with the whole meditation on mindfulness and concentration. I have a pretty good handle on my mind and find it easy to clear my head and relax. I'm on the third day and prefer to go about an hour with this. I still have some problems with keeping posture perfectly up, slumping a bit when at time and then notice my breathing is not as open as usual...anyway, I intend on doing a bit better in the next week or so, but would like to try something a bit more interesting, perhaps visualizations or guided meditations. I've tried to find guided meditations online to download, but most seem mainly toward relaxation and probably has a target audience of those trying to reduce anxiety or maybe deal with stress and high blood pressure. I'm more interested in expanding consciousness and getting in touch with the more spiritual side (which is undefined) of myself. Does anyone have any recommended reading? websites? places which allow download of media concerning such online?

What I'm doing now is pleasant enough, and I enjoy it but I'm looking for something a bit more than a relaxation technique. I mean, I do experience the feeling of oneness, tranquility, see the pretty colors on my eyelids, and feel better and more centered throughout the day which is all wonderful but I'd like to have a more thorough tour through consciousness and have no teacher.

[Solidly-here]

Robin_himself wants info: "I'm interested in Meditation but I read and heard that there are lots and lots of techniques and styles where in one can meditate... Do you have advice for the meditating newb?"

1) Find a Meditation group you are interested in joining;
2) Discover their particular thoughts and methods;
3) Do that.

Beyond that, your Post is silly.
Do you REALLY want to know each of the 500-or-so variations on Meditation? OR, do you actually want to Meditate?

Spiritual practice is personal. You are asking us personal info.

You ask: "Do you have advice for the meditating newb?"
But, you have never meditated. So, you are NOT a newbie, you're a None-ie

[BEEKSc1]

intolerance will not be tolerated.

i think finding your particular style is part of one's Process of Becoming. Mediation involves deep breathing originating from one's stomach. Mediation is the bridge connecting mind and body.

about your inquisition about psychoactive substances and mediation.
SWIM gets much more stoned off cannabis when he mediates or vibes a trance for a half hour before smoking the sacred herb

You are seeking information pertaining to consciousness; and, there is nothing NONE about that.
We should be promoting an amicable environment, even if one has triple the posts as compared to others!

[Solidly-here]

Beeks, who are you Posting to?

"intolerance will not be tolerated." Well, who is being intolerant?

"We should be promoting an amicable environment, even if one has triple the posts as compared to others!" Aren't we promoting an amicable environment?

"You are seeking information pertaining to consciousness; and, there is nothing NONE about that." What you are saying?

"Mediation involves deep breathing originating from one's stomach." Well, that is True is some disciplines (but not in most of them). The breathing does not need to start in the stomach. In fact: Light, easy breathing is often used (including by me).

[BEEKSc1]

Solidly Here, you referenced A as NONE-ie; that tone is not tolerated here

I'm saying any awareness is good.

And for clarity, I was just atemtping to relate to others Solid. One type of mediation that has done me well is from the stomach, deep breath; yet there are other ways of mediating. I stated nothing absolutely.

[Trebor]

Swm find the best way to meditate is to go to the middle of nowhere and just empty your head of all thoughts and pick something to stare at and just relax.

[BEEKSc1]

Trebor, so the Swym finds it easiest to meditate w/ their eyes open?

I find it easiest to meditate w/ my eyes close. Less stimuli; more focus and concentration.

[FrankenChrist]

When I used to meditate, I often came to a point where I had to decide.

1) Allow myself to dissociate. Do I let myself go and lose myself? This feels to me like the most "hedonist" of these two choices.

or

2) Do I stay focused on myself? I focus...on the focus. I do this to get more energy

The serene, calm euphoria is great. I wish it was easier to attain.

Any thoughts?

[bewilderment]

Originally Posted by FrankenChrist

When I used to meditate, I often came to a point where I had to decide.

1) Allow myself to dissociate. Do I let myself go and lose myself? This feels to me like the most "hedonist" of these two choices.

or

2) Do I stay focused on myself? I focus...on the focus. I do this to get more energy

The serene, calm euphoria is great. I wish it was easier to attain.

Any thoughts?

I think it depends on what your aim is (although I've heard sometimes that one shouldn't have a goal in meditation) or your reason for meditation. If it's more spiritual then that sort of meditation seems to go more for ego loss and thus one should try to "let go" and realize the unity of things. But, if it's for stress reduction or something of that sort with not so much of a spiritual side then it may be better to go with the second option as one can become better at focus and concentrating during daily life while staying calm and centered.

For me, I'd aim for the first option. But, it varies individually. Both options can be hedonistic I suppose. I think the first option may be even less so if one can get to the ego loss (or "ego-lesser") state and try to keep part of that throughout the day. I try to keep that thought and feeling with me throughout the day in order to act less selfishly when I have to do things that benefit others but that I don't necessarily want to do because I have to recall that we're all part of the same fabric and by showing favor to someone else it benefits me as well.

[Solidly-here]

Oh, Beeks, who are you, my Mother?

Don't you have anything REAL to do?

You said: "[ I ] referenced A as NONE-ie; that tone is not tolerated here."

What is wrong with this?

A person who does it all the time is an Old-hat.
A person who has only done it once or twice is a Newbie.
Someone who has NEVER done something is a None-ie (experience = NONE).

So, when you say: "that tone is not tolerated here" . . . it is NOT True. What IS true is that you are too intolerant of what I am saying.
If the OP had a problem, he could say he was offended.
But WHO ARE YOU?

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by robin_himself

I'm interested in Meditation but I read and heard that there are lots and lots of techniques and styles where in one can meditate.

Try chanting... it seems sort of ridiculous from a Western perspective, but there's nothing like it (in conjunction with really LISTENING to yourself as you chant) to bring you into the moment and quiet the so-called monkey mind.

Just plain old "OM" works fine... drawing out either the "O" or the "M" depending on desired effect. Finding the right vocal level takes a bit of practice, but is easy after awhile. Later it can be "chanted" mentally without actually vocalizing.

[Trebor]

Originally Posted by BEEKSc1

Trebor, so the Swym finds it easiest to meditate w/ their eyes open?

I find it easiest to meditate w/ my eyes close. Less stimuli; more focus and concentration.

Yeah, but with open eyes I find I get more stimulation and that encourages thoughts. Which in turn encourages ideas.

[BEEKSc1]

Interesting, so do you utilize free-association when seeking to stimulate thoughts via external stimuli?

One reason I enjoy having my eyes closed is because I usually start with the question, Why I am sitting here, in this position, doing this cognitive-exercise? and that usually starts something I can work with.

[Pinkavvy]

Originally Posted by Trebor

Yeah, but with open eyes I find I get more stimulation and that encourages thoughts. Which in turn encourages ideas.

Which chases away a meditative state of "clearing ones mind."

Do you know what meditation is Trebor?

[Alfa]

The word meditation means two contradictonary things:

1. thinking & contemplating
2. non-thinking.