Ethics of sharing drugs.

[dr.gonzo]

Swim has been doing heroin for about a year now. He has pretty much kept his usage down to only once or twice a week, with only a few exceptions. The thing is, he has never done it with anybody else; that is, until recently.

Some experimental friends have asked Swim if he would be willing to let them try the stuff, but Swim has always been able to talk them out of it. However, a good friend of his (I'll call her Amy) convinced him to let her try it. For the first time, Swim had brought somebody else along for the ride, and it felt really good. It felt so much better, not having to hide the fact that he was on junk, and being able to be completely open with somebody... Although, much of this probably has to do with the fact that Swim has had an infatuation with this girl since his sophomore year of High School, four years ago. But doing it with her really made Swim not feel like such a junkie.

I believe that Swim and Amy's common friends would be very pissed at Swim for doing what he did. And in retrospect, Swim is a bit ashamed for doing it as well. I can't really tell what Swim's motivations actually were. Were they simply to offer Amy a safe and comfortable environment to experiment with some drugs? Or did Swim have more selfish reasons? Having her there certainly enhanced the experience, but is that all Swim was looking for? Was she merely the living equivalent of drinking grapefruit juice to potentiate the effects?

Well, the way she convinced Swim to let her do it with him was by saying something along the lines of, "It would be cool to try it with you, and I could probably try it myself, but I would might have to go through some shady people." I guess I would rather her do it with me than have to go out and score for herself, and risk getting ripped off, or worse. She has told Swim that she wants to do it again, but she only wants to do it with Swim. So I guess Swim is going to let her, as she is an adult, and can make her own decisions. Still, if anything were to happen to her, Swim would never be able to forgive himself. He still feels bad about giving some coke to a girl back in senior year, and she didn't even really like it.

And Swim can't really talk to any friends about this, as they would probably just not understand, in the same way that they don't understand why he does these substances himself. Even though they are probably going to find out anyway, as secrets are not kept well among Swim's circle of friends.

So I was wondering if anybody else had any such moral dilemmas or insights concerning "taking others for the ride", whether it's heroin, cocaine, or whatever.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good question
	Good thoughts.

[quili]

Certainly swiy's usage will make it easier and more accesible for Amy. Swim would not want anyone to tell her what to do because she trusts herself and all of her experiences confirm that her trust in herself is valid. But she does sometimes not encourage drug usage with some of her friends because she has seen them let things get out of control. Swim hasn't dealt with h, but has had issues with her friends and coke. It's always a fine line. And swim has felt very conflicted about similar issues. Swiy can't be her parent but swiy can't deny that you will be her enabler either. Swim thinks that it is okay to do it with her for now, because like you said, she is an adult. But still keep a watchful eye on her perhaps? Make sure she is educated and careful, etc.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very helpful comments.

[Psych0naut]

SWIM had some guys in his class he hangs out with once in a while.
While they drink SWIM does hard drugs;E,Speed,GHB..
Some of them wanted to try it, and SWIM rather wanted them to do it with him than someone else who doesn't know as much about drugs as SWIM.
Now the number of friends he introduced to E, GHB and the rest is more than he can count on one hand, but none of them comes to SWIM to asker for it, nor do they buy it somewhere else.They aren't adicted.
SWIM rathers want them to do a drug that is less damaging then alcohol as SWIM knows alcohol is the most devestating of all hard drugs.
SWIM doesn't have any moral problems with it because he thinks he is doing a good thing, what does SWIY think about it?
By the way, SWIM never let them do very addictive drugs like coke,meth or hero, and he never will.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great contribution to the topic, and I agree with your view.

[Voices]

Swim is sometimes amazed at the number of people who answer their own questions.

Swim did something that s/he feels ashamed about. So swim should not repeat said behavior.

If swim is asking this question because he wants to get permission to feel better or dump the quilt, then maybe it would help if someone TELLS you not to repeat this behavior. Swim should not hook his friends up with H.

[IHrtHalucingens]

Using drugs with others is very frequently more fun. SWIM says that when people share a great experience it brings them closer together and allows both parties to enjoy the experience more. Theres someone there to talk about it with and someone there to enjoy it with. Dont feel guilty, as you said shes an adult and can make her own decisions. And with her only doing it with you, you can make sure she stays safe and doesnt take advantage of it.

As long as you pass on the real facts of the substance and teach her to be safe with her use and teach her of the dangers and beneifts of the substance you have absolutely nothing to be shamed of. In fact in SWIMs opinion your helping to spread understanding and acceptance of new experiences and beliefs.

[klaatu]

In answer to Dr G's question I will relate the following...

I have a friend who was introduced to "hard" drugs (actually he found they were pretty easy in reality) by a young, female friend of his. She kept on saying how guilty she felt about that fact. On the other hand, he just said he was glad she had introduced him to them.

Draw your own conclusions.

Klaatu

[fatal]

buy the ticket take the ride. dont blame the conductor for getting on the wrong train.

[motorhead]

You say you feel like a junkie? Well if the frequency of your use is what u say and you have an otherwise normal life then by no means are you a junkie, using a needle or not. Search for woodmans thread on what a junkie really is! So stop feeling guilty for your own use first of all. But i cant really blame you for that, H has one of the worst reps out there and many people hide their use from close ones, especially if they use a needle.
But in the end she is an adult, and, by your post, was going to use anyways so you probably would have hooked up and gotten high together eventually. Ya it is good to have someone to share drug experiences with, plus it sounds like you two are into each other. Just dont end up like Sid and Nancy! cheers

Reputation Comments on this post:

Probably should swim... peace.

[Voices]

How romantic and tragic. I guess that makes it alright then.

I believe that Swim and Amy's common friends would be very pissed at Swim for doing what he did. And in retrospect, Swim is a bit ashamed for doing it as well.

No need for concern at all.

[Sky Walker]

Tell Amy that safe drug usage comes from knowledge and respect of the substance in question then write up a detailed test of everything you think is important to know about safe heroin usage, then tell Amy to go do some research and when she comes back give her the test, don't shoot up with her again until she passes the test with say, 90%, this should help alleviate any remaining guilt or shame, not that you should really have any anyway.

[dr.gonzo]

Thanks to all, you've been really helpful. If she does wish to continue, I'll teach her to be as safe as possible, and leave the decision to her. Quili, you are right, and I shouldn't act as a parental figure, but will most definately watch out for her.

So has anybody been in any similar situations such as Swim's or Psych0naut's?

[Alfa]

A good friend of SWIM was addicted to heroin quite heavely. He met this beautifull young girl and they soon became lovers. She was one of the most innocent girls SWIM ever saw. Naive as well. She adored SWIMs friend. And even his free and independent lifestyle. (as she saw it) After living with him for 6 months and seeing him use, she decided from his example to try heroin. She had no clue what she was getting into. It didn't last long before she got hooked. Her will was no match for the strength of heroins addiction. Within a year she looked like shit and at 15 she was a hooker. 10 years later, she still was at rock bottom.
And yes, SWIM blames his friend for ruining this life.

[jonny thaiwongy]

Swim first did this about a year and a half ago with a friend who asked him if he wanted to try it. Swim said yes, so they were goofin soon after. Swim had a decent idea of what to expect(as much as you can w/o experience). Soon after a group of six of them were taking it every 1-2 weeks. Swim remembers the euphoria after every time when he leaves and realizes why its addictive. 3 out of 6 are potential junkies. I am sure 2 will have extreme difficulties with not getting addicted as they have said they realize thye have to stop but they dont. It is a beautiful thing in moderation, but to good to moderate its use. A few people have said to me they want to try it to see, cuz they wont get addicted. i say why risk it? all you can do is explain the risks and that you could get addicted. of course some people wont listen...like me but i was lucky.

[The Doors]

SWIM is very conscious on the drugs he tries and he knows that the odds of him getting addicted to a substance are slim, except if it would become physical but SWIM doesn't any drugs daily for the exception of marijuana.

SWIM is also cautious as to who he lets do certain drugs with him(MDMA for one...)

SWIM firmly believes that there are people out there who simply shouldnt be experimenting with drugs until further maturity is reached... though he can't stop them from getting it from other people.

[El Calico Loco]

Swim's mother is a lifelong drug addict. He had his first amphetamine experience at the age of six months...from breast milk.

He saw the way his mother lived as he grew up. It was a better "Don't Use Drugs" lesson than any condescending PSA on television.

When he was in his teens, his mother asked him if he used drugs. He told her no, and it was true - he had no interest. She was glad to hear it, but told him that if he ever wanted to that she wanted him to come to her - because she would make sure he had pure stuff and a safe environment.

He never took her up on the offer, but he always had a strange respect for his mother's realism.

Fifteen years later, he would be the one to introduce her to a drug; a good friend called 2C-E. "You once told me that you'd done every drug in the world," he said, "but I bet you've never done this one." She hadn't. And it helped her, in a small way.

Every adult has to be responsible for their own decisions. If one has drugs and is willing to share with others, one should do everything one can to make sure they know the risks involved. One should try to make sure they aren't taking any medication that could interact badly with the drugs offerred.

Ultimately, however, the responsibility lies with the individual who chooses to take the chemical.


ECL

[Sky Walker]

Another risk associated with sharing drugs is that if you are caught you could be charged with supply (exact same charges as dealing). Not quite as dangerous as an overdose but still a very real risk, not sure what countries that applies to outside of the U.K though.

[frenchywife]

It depends on the friend - if it's someone you trust, and is cool, then I think it's ok. For example, SWIM introduced coke to her best friend and it was great, only because she was cool and could handle it - there was no drama or anything. Of course, this is just one experience - anything can happen. But like many other posts here, the person themselves who choose to try something is solely responsible for their own actions - no one is twisting their arm!

[dancingbear]

Good thread.

SWIM is quite experienced in psychedelics - shrooms, owsley, elf spice, etc. - and has had people come and ask him to take them along for a ride.

SWIM has most often said no. If SWIM thinks (and SWIM is always highly subjective in this, of course) that his friend/partner/whoever is too fragile, innocent or just "too good to put in any danger", SWIM will not give anything to the person. SWIM does not want to end up in a situation where a person is messed up badly because of SWIM's help.

A person who wishes to do a substance will get it from somewhere else if s/he wants it bad enough.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good post

[stoneinfocus]

Originally Posted by dancingbear

Good thread.

A person who wishes to do a substance will get it from somewhere else if s/he wants it bad enough.

Exactly , there´s no-one to blame, but the person who decided to do the drugs, because it´s this person´s will and one should know and take all the consequences.... one could t even tell me one were forced into drugs, becaus if you were, and didn´t want to and didn´t like it, you would for sure get clean within 1 months adn never do it again.

there´s no blaming others for the decision that one person makes to what she wants to do with her life.

[dancingbear]

there´s no blaming others for the decision that one person makes to what she wants to do with her life.

While this is ultimately true, there are times when a person can be at such an emotional stress, depression or just at a complete loss with their identity and direction in life, that it would be enormously irresponsible to arrange drugs for such a person. Even if it would appear to be their "own" decision, at times of personal turbulunce there are often forces behind these decisions that the person him/herself cannot comprehend.

So, SWIM would put the blame on just the person wanting the drugs, because in the end, there are more X's in the equation than just one's own will.

[stoneinfocus]

there are, but there´re too many variables, in the person, in you and the nubers of accessible drugs and in getting them, so it´s futile to pretend one´s morality issue with giving it away or not, in the end, it´s just a subjective decision and you can´t look inside a person nor into the future.

In a perfect enviroment, one would use a drug, knowing, that he already has one of the most precious states of mind, while being clean and doing what one likes, giving fullfillness, and drugs are just for diversity and gettting more out of the normal state of being, by this experience.

Variables and the cause for misuse are genetic, just plain accidents, or destiny, or caused by social problems, in which the drugs don´t play any direct rule in the genesis of these problems , and you, giving away a drug, has a much much much too little influnece on any of these variables, that´s all in the hands of the user
and his surrounding as a whole, in which you are just one little factor, for a tiny little percentage of the of this user´s lifetime.

So you´re just trying to be more important and pretending to know and rule more than you actually do, which is humanly, of course.

Dude, if one bartender was to think about morality in doing his job, there´d be no bar-tenders and I mean no.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great comments.

[JumpinJackFlash]

SWIM has had a similar dilemma, but the dilemma didn't occur till after SWIM did it. SWIM really wanted to get some of his school mates into the scene he was in, so invited them up and ended up introducing his friend to E and Acid in the same night, which fucked his friend up at the time. Although SWIMs friend said he enjoyed the experience afterwards SWIM still feels tremendous guilt for opening up the pandoras box of drug use, which as we all know has its highs and its lows, and there is no way that SWIM can possibly take this back all he can do is be apologetic and worry about it.

The moral of the story is THINK, just weigh everything up and don't rush into things, because once the substance has been administered you can't take it back.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good post

[bcubed]

SWIM understands. He has two younger sisters, four and 17 years behind him. While he didn't give his middle sister her first taste of alcohol, he did set a fairly wild example for her growing up. She went through a wild period herself in her teens and late twenties, but has seemed to settle down to "responsible" drinking (though she did pick up a DWI along the way). SWIM always felt a guilt about being a bad example; not just for the booze, but because (back when SWIM was in his early twenties) her boyfriend--a big pot enthusiast--was SWIM's source. SWIM felt as if he was remiss in some sort of duty to "just say no" or something in her presence (despite the fact she was living w/ him and smoking his stuff too).

Incidentally, the youngest sister got to see BOTH of them misbehave, yet she's virtually abstinent. (Different dad, though--if you knew him, you'd see why that might make a difference). So in this case, SWIM imagines they'd both have turned out like they did regardless of how SWIM handled it.