UK: Customs and dried mescaline cacti raid

[Akewstick]

Has anyone ever tried the kind of mescaline containing capsules SWIY can buy in headshops the UK? They look cool, but i'd like to see if anyone has had any experiences with them...

[matti_2003]

I'm sure mecaline containing capsules would be illegal in the UK since mescaline is class A. Maybe they could be dried cactus in a capsule? Swim would like more information.

[Abrad]

Originally Posted by matti_2003

Maybe they could be dried cactus in a capsule?

It would need to be some capsule... I suspect this stems from some unscrupulus head shop owner claiming his piperizine/lsa pills have mescaline in them.
Akewstick: Do you know whatthe brand name is?

[matti_2003]

Maybe the capsules contain a tiny amount of dried cactus that would have no affect. In doing so the shop can sell these claiming they contain mecaline without breaking the trade descriptions act. Chances are though that the shop keeper is bull shitting to sell more.

[Psych0naut]

The only way mescaline can be sold in the U.K. and the rest of Europe, is as a fresh cactus.
If it's prepared in any way to be consumed it's illegal, just as with mushrooms and some other plants.

[matti_2003]

Swim has seen dried cactus sold in a few online headshops in the UK sold as "dried samples of cactus" so surely they would not risk breaking the law. Swim thought that the cactus is only illegal if they can prove that it is to be used for human consumption.

[Abrad]

Wasn't there an online vendor busted in the UK a few months ago for selling dried cactus?

Found an article on it...

http://www.wb-news.co.uk/display.var.675583.0.0.php
Police seized large quantities of suspected endangered cacti, which can be taken as a hallucinogenic drug, when they raided a flat last week.

Wandsworth police were tipped off about the cacti and arrested a 33-year-old man at his home in Garratt Lane, Earlsfield, on Wednesday.

If the man is charged and successfully prosecuted the case could set a legal precedent as police believe it is the first time someone will be prosecuted for both illegally importing an endangered plant and therefore infringing licensing laws and supplying a class A drug.

Detective Sergeant Mark Taylor, who led the dawn raid in his role as the environment and endangered species officer in Wandsworth, said he had never seen anything like the amount of cacti seized from the man's flat.
continued...

He said: "We might be setting a legal precedent here we are in new territory."

The drug, which is prepared by boiling down the cacti to make a hallucinogenic tea, is called mescaline and is derived from the Peyote cactus, from Mexico, and Peruvian Torch, from coastal Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia and Mexico.

They were potted and on display in the man's living-room. Police also seized a variety of herbal powders and drug paraphernalia and a substance they believed to be cannabis. Officers worked all day and into the night to bag up the evidence and transport the plants to Kew.

The man has been bailed for two months pending tests by experts at Kew Gardens into the cacti and inquiries into their ancestry.

[matti_2003]

Swim's not sure but looking at a few online head shops at the moment and quite a few are selling the same dried samples of cactus. They are all packaged products that they have bought from the same supplier but swim doesn't want to go into too much detail about the originating company as it may break source rules.

[Micklemouse]

I'd be very surprised if a vendor was selling lsa pills, as prepared lsa is again a Class A drug. I'd imagine also that putting HBWR seeds or similar in a cap would cover preparation so far as the local DS are concerned.

[matti_2003]

Swim has never seen LSA containing pills in the UK. If it had been extracted from seeds theres no doubt that it would be illegal. Swim also sees no reason why a seller would put seeds in a capsule because they are pretty easy to consume anyway and it just leaves them open to a possible prosecution.

[Abrad]

There are several products which contain LSA including Space Cadets, Druids Fantasy and Purple Ohms although I have no idea if they contain extracted LSA or crushed seeds.

[Akewstick]

Well, thanks for all the input, it may well be the case that SWIM was a bit off his tits when the product was explained to him, and that he didn't actually go inside the headhsop himself.

I do know for a fact that you can get HBWR and morning glory in capsules from places like that, sorry for getting everybody excited.

Reputation Comments on this post:

please take the effort next time

[Evil GIR]

So a friend of a friend has ordered some dry cacti material and now ithis has become stuck at customs for about 7 days with the message AWAITING CUSTOMS CHARGING.

Now he has ordered certain amounts before in the past which have been held for about a day and then let through, so he was just wondering if anyone has got any idea for the hold up or should he be prepare for the knock on the door or a letter for charges.

As far as I know dry cacti should be legal to have and import or else you would be able to buy them from UK shops on and off line, but then again its my friend whos it effects.

[Alfa]

I assume you are in the UK and are talking about mescaline containing cactus right?
Mescaline is a controlled substance and dried mescaline cactus can be seen as an illegal preparation as defined in the misuse of drugs act 1971. 2 kg's of dried mescaline cactus would be an amount interesting enough for customs to prosecute for. However such a court case would most likely be won if one brings in the UN. Most people do not and therefore there have been confictions for dried/prepared plants with controlled substances in them. Same situation as with dried magic mushrooms, before the magic mushroom ban.
The fact that mescaline cactus is sold in UK headshops does not mean anything about their legality. They have been selling piperazines while they do fall under the medicines act and will most likely continue to offer products of undefined legality and products which are illegal, but the government has either not found out about or does not yet care about.

There may be other things at play depending upon the country the mescaline cactus comes from certain import licences are needed. From South america one would need a phytosanitary certificate, CITES import, CITES export and possibly some other licences as well, which all in all may tripple the costs of your mescaline cacti.

[Evil GIR]

So how would head shops go about importing the stuff as I am surer they would buy in bulk so to sell them off for a greater profit. So in my friends defence could he just claim I was selling them on for ebay ?

But the mostimportant thing I want to know is has anybody in the uk actually been prosecuted or had a package confiscated that contained such cacti, as he has never had any problems befoere even though customs had looked at it.

[Evil GIR]

Could there be other reason why it hasnt gone through and what exactly does AWAITING CUSTOMS CHARGING mean, as I have read other post where this comes up and its normally deliverd charge free where if it other package have had AWAITING CUSTOMS CHARGES then AWAITING CUSTOMS CHARGING, which have been released with a fine. So my friend is still unsure on what to think.

[Bikelbees]

Awaiting customs charging does not mean you are about to be charged with illegal importation - it means that they are assessing if duty is payable and its in a Q waiting to be cleared. There probably shouldn't be duty on this, but they may be on notice now to question such imports. Where is it from? Alpha is right, except I am not sure what he means about the UN - this seems confusing. The UN do not list cacti as drugs, but countries generally make their own laws. As far as I know it is possible to be charged with these offences for possession of such dried cacti for both CITES and MODA 1971 offences. It remains to be seen whether such a prosecution can be enforced at Court.

[Alfa]

Originally Posted by bikelbees

I am not sure what he means about the UN - this seems confusing. The UN do not list cacti as drugs, but countries generally make their own laws.

The Misuse of drugs act is an implementation of the UN convention on psychotropic drugs 1971. In other words, as the UN states no plants containing controlled substances are controlled by the convention, their word would overrule the UK's interpretation of the convention (misuse of drugs act)

Dib: if you rewrite your posts and PM me the text, I will edit them for you. Read the rules about self incrimination, before proceeding.

[Alfa]

Do you mean you have just written an confession to importation and distribution of 2 kg of a class A drug on an open internet forum? You might want to use a more hypothetical way of writing.

Maximum penalties are:

For Possession:
Magistrates court: 6 months / £5000 fine Crown court: 7 years / unlimited fine

Supply
Magistrates court: 6 months / £5000 fine
Crown court: Life / unlimited fine

As these are maximum penalties they do not represent actual sentences, but they give an indication of the seriousness of the crime. I do not know the maximum penalties for importation of mescaline cacti.

It doesn't matter which class A drug in in a dried plant. Any substance listed in the MDA will do. Customs will not give a shit if which controlled substance is in there. Wether mescaline of heroin. Illegal is illegal. Yes, people have been prosecuted for dried plants with controlled substances in them.

[Evil GIR]

Well he has ordered it from Peru and questioing them about the labels they actualy told him that they put green tea or herbal teas on there.

So hopefull customs wont realy have an idea on what to make of it.

[Bikelbees]

Lets hope so, but clearly as was the case with Mushrooms, the UK can bring in their own laws

[Alfa]

If I recall correctly a headshop was raided a while ago for mescaline cacti. I hear rumours there is some more going on in this regard.

[Evil GIR]

I have been adviced its all just a lable thing and now I am in the process of chasing up customs, so there should be no problems.

[Alfa]

You are?

Customs are border cops. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. Allthough it might just be the labeling, it might also be the contents. Now think of the punishment for a moment and then call a lawyer for your friend.

[Evil GIR]

something I did find

[B]Yes, in the UK san pedro will fall into the same grey legal area as mushrooms, as there are no laws which state what constitutes preparation for consumption. One judge may consider drying and slicing to be preparation, but another may not.

I would think that there is a more slightly more solid argument that sliced and dried san pedro would not constitute preparation than with mushrooms though, as it's highly unlikely that one would chew dried san pedro chunks, but dried mushrooms are often eaten straight. The most important part of this law is that they have been prepared for consumption.

There are no legal restrictions on simply having the dried cactus in your posession. If the case were to go to court, the prosecuting party would have to prove that you intend to consume the cacti for the effects of the mescaline it contains.

http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/vi...ight=cacti+law


Would this still hold true ?