How to use / extract morning Glory.

[Jimmeh]

So SWIM has decided he wants to do Morning Glory, but even by looking on Erowid and searching on this forum he finds information to be a bit muddled and confusing.

SWIM would like to know:

1)How many seeds to take(was thinking about 200?)
2)How to take them.

Regarding no. 2, SWIM has read of a couple of extraction methods but is unsure of which one to use(SWIM isn't going to just eat them since he's heard of the bad nausea which is probable). The petroleum ether and high proof alcohol method seems to be the best, but is it worth it? Does it tend eliminate nausea better than other methods? SWIM has also heard of doing a CWE, redissolving in alcohol, filtering and drinking which appeals more to him. Would this method be as effective as the first one SWIM mentioned? How much alcohol/water would be needed and how long would it take to dissolve both times? And if SWIM couldn't get a very high proof alcohol could he use a lower one, maybe 40%? If yes would he have to use more of it, leave it longer to dissolve etc. Any other methods people use to eliminate nausea that they'd recommend?(SWIM's heard of taking ginger or dramamine with the seeds).

[MrPissmister]

swims had loads of success with dramamine. he took 2 while his friend took none. after dosing on a HBWR CWE, swim burped a little but was cool, while his friend promptly puked his guts out. good ganja seems to be a good ticket to no nausea as well, although I would say you're better off not mixing drugs to begin with, especially coming up on lsa.

200 MGs is gonna do something for sure, but it's a small dose especially considering the unknown activity of the seeds which have often been poor in swims experience. dont EXPECT anything. It is recommended that you prepare them simply by thoroughly crushing to a fine powder, soaking in distilled or otherwise high quality water for 12 hours or more, then dosing as needed. this is simplest and effective. some form of nausea is defenitely going to occur but there are a few things you can do to fight that. dont eat before your trip, at the very least have an empty stomach. take dramamine. dose slow, like over the period of an hour or more. smoke weed if you have to. if you prepare a 1000 seeds in this way you'll be in for a wild ride for sure.

set and setting are also very important with any psychedelic, keep this in mind.

[gib]

Hello,
I'm thinking about extracting the LSA out of some Morning Glory seeds I bought (Heavenly Blue & Flying Saucers). I'm using the erowid.org website as a guide (http://www.erowid.org/plants/morning...faq.shtml#prep).

What I'm not sure about is what are the advantages/disadvantages of the two methods it suggest for the first filtration (petroleum ether vs. water). Why would they even bother siggesting petroleum ether when one could use water instead? I guess one disadvantage to using water is that you have to let it evaporate at low temperatures which might take some time. But so what? Water is much cheaper and much more readily available. Are there any other disadvantages I should know about (weaker brew, more nausia)?

Also, they list the ethanol-based liquids in order of preference? At the bottom of the list is water-based beverages, and they list it last because it causes nausia. Am I to assume that items closer to the top of the list don't? So if I drink something like EverClear (190 proof and not meant for human consumption) I'll be OK??? That doesn't make much sense, so I'm assuming that once the whole process is done and you have some kind of ethanol-based solution with LSA in it, you're supposed to mix it in with something like coke or juice - am I right? On the other hand, it says that the main advantage of this method is the instant high you get from simply holding it in your mouth for 5-10 seconds. Would I still get this instant high if I diluted it in coke or juice? Is it recommended to try this with straight EverClear, even if I spit it out after?

Another thing: it says that water is the least preferable of the ethanol-based liquids because it causes nausia. But I thought the petroleum ether was supposed to take care of this. What exactly does the petroleum ether do (or the water, if you take this route)? What exactly does the ethanol-based liquid do?

[oldman]

okay, swim knows the method of which you speak. apparently yhe water does not separate the ergot whatever that will make you nauseated. don't think that pet ether will exempt you from all nausea though. there's a reason lsa is still readily legal okay.

swim will also tellyou he read that part also about the holding the everclear in your mouth, he strogly suggests that NO ONE try this. it will blister your mouth. the first time he did this he pannicked because he didn't know if it was the everclear or the lysergides that caused the blistering. it takes a few days to get over this. infact he recommends that one even cut the everclear with their favorite fruit juice. like a cocktail.

in another post on this topic here someone said that everclear and all alcohols kill the lysergides. this is not true. swim can only attest to this by experience and not his chemistry background. but of all the LSA assays he has done (a few with water, once or twice just crushed them and ate em). bottom line is it probably won't kill you but there did seem to be more tension and heavy feelings when he did not prep with the pet ether and everclear. so there have you. the pet ether and everclear will set you back maybe ten bucks dude, do it.

swim always purchased organic non treated seeds too. this is important dude. if you bought those ones at home depot better off putting them in the ground. seems like 300-400 seeds was a fair enough ride, not too uncomfy. not lsd either though. some guys here love the stuff though. good luck.

[gib]

OK, so let's say I spring for a petroleum ether product. How do I know what I'm looking for. I know not to get Naptha products, but how do I recognize it? If it's Naptha, will it say so FOR SURE. What kind of product names can I ask for? And what kind commercial outlets would sell such stuff? Remember, I live in Canada (i.e. stores like K-Mart don't exist here).

Thanks for the help

[CrookedEye]

Varnish Makers & Painters Naphtha.. It's a mixture of alkanes of approximately the following: 10% pentane, 20% hexane, 40% heptane, 20% octane, 10% nonane. You can find it in the paint section.. It's used to thin varnishes..

It's also sold as Zippo lighter fluid, Amsol 10, Kensol 10, White Gas, VM&P Naphtha, Ozark Trail, Camp Fuel, and Coleman Fuel. These products are complex mixtures of light hydrotreated petroleum distillates containing up to 25% n-hexane, 15% cyclohexane, and less than 0.001% benzene by weight.

When trying a new source of Naphtha, it's good to take a nice amount and evaporate it, to see if there is any residues or smells.. Some naphtha has rust inhibitors added, which could ruin the final product..

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Very helpful post

[gib]

Originally Posted by CrookedEye

Varnish Makers & Painters Naphtha.. It's a mixture of alkanes of approximately the following: 10% pentane, 20% hexane, 40% heptane, 20% octane, 10% nonane. You can find it in the paint section.. It's used to thin varnishes..

It's also sold as Zippo lighter fluid, Amsol 10, Kensol 10, White Gas, VM&P Naphtha, Ozark Trail, Camp Fuel, and Coleman Fuel. These products are complex mixtures of light hydrotreated petroleum distillates containing up to 25% n-hexane, 15% cyclohexane, and less than 0.001% benzene by weight.

When trying a new source of Naphtha, it's good to take a nice amount and evaporate it, to see if there is any residues or smells.. Some naphtha has rust inhibitors added, which could ruin the final product..

Ah, but the erowid site mentioned above says that Naptha is a poor substitute for petroleum ether. That's why I asked about products OTHER than Naptha. Thanks anyway.

[oldman]

listen to crooked eye, just get the VM&P. not all naptha is good though. swim found it in a paint store not a hardware store, but figures Home depot (canada?). it was a country paint shop he got it at, nothing fancy.

[Alfa]

This thread will be expanded.

[Trebor]

Wouldn't taking petroleum ethanol kill you?

[Nagognog2]

Do you mean petroleum ether? Pet. Ether, not actually an ether at all, is a mixture of aliphatic hydrocarbons usually from pentane (C5) up to heptane (C7). Using such as a solvent to extract alkaloids is done by removing the solvent afterwards by evaporation - leaving behind the desired molecule(s). The solvent itself is not consumed. If it were, it could indeed kill you.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Trebor

Wouldn't taking petroleum ethanol kill you?

yeah, you must allow the filtered contents time for the pet ether to evap off. probably it's out in a day but 2-3 wouldn't hurt as long as you keep it in a dark, moderate temp, dry space. anything else and you risk losing some lysergides and avtive material. when it no longers smells of pet. ether it's proably out. wait another day still though.

[Alfa]

Is there any difference between Hawaiian baby woodrose extraction and morning glory extraction?

[oldman]

the only thing i've heard is that there are less toxins in the baby woodrose seeds. have read of similar extractions with them though. have heard of people taking them with only the skins soaked and removed. and removing the skins then doing an extraction. apparently (i have not personally seen HBW seeds) since they are larger and you only need maybe 5-6 (?) the skins are easily removed. I do not remember (reading) alot about them though so I may be wrong.

[Alfa]

Actually Morning Glory seeds contain far less toxins than Hawaiian Baby woodrose.

[dip]

[paranoid]

[tregar]

All varieties of hardware-store petroleum ether such as VM&P Naptha, Coleman fuel and zippo and other brands of lighter fluid will all dissolve a large portion of the LSAs, rendering the final 180 proof or better alcohol extract very weak. Only reagent grade petroleum ether from a chem supplier or lab will work. If you can't get it, then the next best thing to use is a cold-water extraction. With a cold-water extraction (the traditional method used by the Indians) the nausea will still be present (though not as bad as if you were to eat the seeds, and I have read that if you filter and re-filter the "strandy soapy" material out of the water with a wire strainer over and over you could arrive at ZERO nausea) but the "fish-eye" toxic effect will be low. For more complete explanations refer to this thread:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22501

Please note that the above paper is over 17 pages long--set aside some time when your not too busy so you can read it in its entirety.

And yes, morning glory seeds as mentioned by Alfa are less toxic than the BHWR or HWR varieties.

Baby hawaiian woodrose seeds also have no history of shamanic use while morning glory seed use goes back thousands of
years.

Also, some brands of morning glory seeds are very strong while other brands may be weak. Read the above link thread at the end of the post to find out what brand hermes found was strong. Seeds dated the present year are usually the best ones--some seeds sitting around in bulk for years may be weak.

Also keep in mind that heat and light has the capability to destroy the delicate amides (LSA's) quickly. Sunlight will destroy it in no time. Extractions should take place at night and in the bask of a red light (like the kind for reptiles while sleeping) when light is needed. When evaporating seed mush, this should be done in a dark light-proof box complete with brushless fans of the type used to cool cpu's, or in a place that has ventilation but will not be exposed to light or heat of any kind. A black light is used to test the final solution...if it still has amides in it, it will glow bright blue, easy and simple test.

It is possible to see visions of pyramids, Mayan/Aztec glyphics, grand architecture, animated geometric forms, and even open-eyed 4D lattice-like visuals and more if you do a correct extract. A correct extraction will also eliminate the "nausea factor" as well as the "toxic fish eye" factors from the trips. Nausea and other toxic factors will subtract significantly from an otherwise life-changing powerful psychedelic experience. There is also a new book with chemist Peter Webster that explains how he made a powerful morning glory extract remarked "as equally as powerful as high-dose LSD trips he has had." Refer to link above.

The book is called "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess and the Secrets of Eleusis" (May 2006) and no I do not have any affiliation with the authors of this book. Refer to chapter 15 to learn about the morning glory extract and a new theory that may expose just why these seeds are so powerful--a trio of drugs interacting together to enact the powerful psychedelic effects. Remember, we still don't know exactly how LSD works--it only has 25% activity at the 5HT2 receptor, but serotonin has 100%! It is a catalyst at many different places in the brain at many different receptors. Prof Nichols (who runs the Heffter Institute) has a research paper written in 2002 about this. I sure would like to see the secrets of the seeds unlocked--wouldn't you? Mr. Webster may have brought us one step closer.

The book above as well as the book "The Road to Eleusis" propose that the secret psychedelic potion drunk by the thousands of initiates at Eleusis (of our ancient culture none the less) is possibly very similar to LSD. This was a secret ceremony and the initiates could not talk of their experiences beyond the confines of the sacred place or they risked certain death. The potion was liked so much that some of the initiates snuck some off to enjoy at their versions of "modern day cocktail parties".

If you are interested in reading more about the cold-water method, check out the many very visual trips that user "hermes" or "EndlessSky79" or "Stretchman" or "pineal" have had over at the lycaeum forums. All of these people (except Stretchman) used cold-water extractions (and pineal would only soak for about 10 minutes) and had incredible visuals with low nausea. Stretchman had very visual trips but used a more advanced extraction, the exact same method used by trackman.du over at erowid in the morning glory faq at the top of the page on morning glorys. Checkout the posts by "Nogal" over at the nook who used the cold-water method and saw Mayan Imagery, animals, energy spheres, a female nymph that tried to communicate with him. You will be amazed.

The Indians knew very well what they were doing by using the traditional cold-water method. The cold-water extraction as well as methods that utilize extraction solutions that end up with a tincture solution in the end (not a solid substance or tar) are thought to create the trio of powerful equilibrium ergine/iso-ergine conformations theorized by Peter Webster to be the secret to these things. These very visual effects are made possible by drinking a cold-water extraction according to "hermes" at the Lycaeum. He has over 500 posts many on this subject alone.

And is this forum cool or what? Nowhere else will you find an entire forum devoted just to morning glory and HBWR.

Here is a short sample from the 3 page trip report by "EndlessSky79" -- quote:
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"The pine trees swayed and changed shape. The clouds above me were forming fantastic images (and I'm sure there weren't any clouds in the sky at the time). I saw dragons, nymphs, birds, all things from myth and fairy tale. I felt as though I was walking the line between where fantasy and reality meet, and it was wonderful. Despite all my prior experiences with good LSD, nothing even came CLOSE to this. I realized I should probably go inside, so I went back the to the "lightning lamp" and was mesmerized by the Mamas and the Papas while watching the colors pulse, and the bookshelves along the walls change shape slowly and majestically. One second they reached the ceiling--the next, they seemed two feet tall. My own feet seemed miles away. My statue of Ganesha danced, holding his tusk out, and growed an extra set of arms which seemed to hold a knife, a book, a flute, and an incense holder, which gently poured smoke out to vanish into thin air."
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"pineal" -- quote:
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"yeah, i second everything you said there, man. For me, along with the euphoric sedated feeling, the visuals are freakin beautiful. Open-eyed, things do the melty washy visuals you get from this type of chemical, and like prolix said, your ability to imagine things and whatnot is definitely increasd. And music sounds fantastic. good stuff. pineal"
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"hermes" -- quote:
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"If you perform a proper extraction using good seeds (and a large enough quantity), you will get strong psychedelic effects and no nausea without requiring any other substances."

"I see eyes, eyes in triangles, wings, eyes in triangles with wings, cherubim, seraphim, pyramids, pyramids with wings and eyes and caducea, utchats, lions, owls, cobras, and generally anything related to the Western Mystery Tradition. The first great "vision" I saw was while on Morning Glories and listening to Mozart's Requiem. When the Lacrimosa began, I saw incredible Angelic forms and felt this incredible awe and love for existence. I think I stole a glimpse of the Beautific Vision itself. I cried and sobbed for hours, in pure ecstacy. I knew, however, that I only encountered the very periphery of the "Inner Kingdom," since the cherubs revealed neither their hands nor their faces, just three pairs of wings. I had never seen them before this, in religious paintings or otherwise."
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*editor's note: hermes experienced strong open-eyed 4D lattice type visuals and melting & warping of furniture with a cold-water extract of 400 seeds of good quality.

*editor's note: If a long cold-water extraction is done and a "soapy stringy" type of material is present in the water--I have read that this can be re-filtered out of the water with a wire strainer or similar to possibly arrive at a ZERO nausea solution.

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