I think I fried my brain

[Ataraxia]

I had a dream last night that this happened to me:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Okay, I'll start from the beginning...

I was an 11 year old kid, hanging out with one of my friend's older brothers (I'll call him L), after school in October of '97. We ended up at the home of one of L's friends playing some Goldeneye on the 'ol N64. While we were playing, this friend of L's went into the kitchen and walked out with something bulging out of the pocket on his hoodie. He motioned us to follow him outside, and I found out the bulge was a huge bong he was hiding from his little brother (who was older than me).

At this point I had never tried any drugs, just an occasional cigarette with L. L's friend packed the bong with what they called "some killer weed." Like I said, I never tried marijuana at this point, but I knew that it was supposed to be green. It was what I now know to be some of the cheapest commercial pot I've ever seen, but with a kicker. It wasn't green. From a few feet away it looked like a dark yellow to light orange leaf, but close up it looked like pot with a HEFTY layer of some sort of powder on it. It looked like it was probably 80% pot and literally 20% powder. It was almost exactly like that yellow salt stuff you pour on your home made popcorn.

He packed the bong, took a rip, passed it to L, and packed it up again. Probably feeling the peer pressure and wondering what it would do, I took the bong. Not knowing how to use it, I had to pass it back to L so he could fill it with the cloud for me. I inhaled probably the biggest cloud I've taken to date, just about tearing my young lungs apart. A minute or two passed by and I didn't feel anything, so I took another rip, about half the size of the first one because my throat hurt so bad. 5 minutes went by, and I didn't really feel much. Just a little light-headed and had the worst cotton-mouth of my life. I told them that their weed sucked and started riding my bike home.

About a block and a half of riding my bike I felt this wave hit me. It literally hit me out of the blue with hardly any onset, and it hit me so hard I fell flat off of my bike in the middle of the road. As I tried to get up I realized that my whole world was fucked. It felt like the whole sky was falling down on me, pulsing in very quick waves right after another. I heard a ringing in my ears and then all I could hear was WOMP WOMP WOMP WOMP WOMP pulsing with each of these waves falling on top of my head. Disoriented and not knowing what was happening to me, L started walking towards me. To this day I can remember the grin on his face, just stunned not knowing what was going on.

I realized that it just started kicking in for him too. This grin is forever etched into my memory because it was my very first visual. His head started warping, almost melting but not quite. His head would stretch to what was probably about 2 to 3 feet in width, and whenever it would stretch in width it would shrink in height. His head just kept warping back and forth back and forth. I then tried to look around, and everything started doing this. Not everything, but certain objects just seemed like they were warping in waves. I never saw any hallucinations, just these objects totally changing shape. On top of that, there was that feeling of the sky falling down on you, as well as total loss of my being. I felt like I was dying at first, and then it felt like I was just totally gone. The best way to describe it is that I just felt like I was actually in a dream, like I wasn't really here. I know a lot of drugs can make you feel like that, but that's the best way I can put it into words.

L (handling it much better than I was) tossed my bike to the sidewalk and started guiding me towards his house. L, his friend, and I all lived within a few blocks, so where I fell off of my bike was only a 1 minute walk to his house. It took us probably 2 or 3 minutes to walk up his driveway. It wasn't a long driveway, but maybe at a 20 or 30 degree angle. We were walking against this force that was pulling us to the ground, so it felt like we were inching up an almost vertical ground. When we got to the level ground we walked to his bedroom window. He lived in a tri-level house, so his bedroom was kind of in ground. He opened it up and I just fell in head first. It felt like I floated right through a cloud or something, just like it would feel physically if you were dreaming it. After that I plopped onto his bed and I guess I either blacked out or just totally lost memory of what happened over the next hour or two.

The next thing I remember was walking down my hallway looking into the the bathroom as my brother bashed L right in the mouth, knocking him into the bathtub. L, being kind of a hard knock of the neighborhood and a few years older than my brother, usually would have beat my brother to a pulp. I guess my brother saw how fucked up L got me and was scared my mom was going to find me like that, so he threw a punch at him. L didn't throw one back, he was just flattened out in the tub still feeling the "killer weed" quite a bit. I'm pretty pissed L got me into this nightmare, but I'm pretty grateful that he somehow got me home. Who knows where I would have ended up.

L finally left and I went straight for my bedroom. I took that first bong rip at about 7, and it was only 9 at this point. For the next 6 or so hours I just sat there in my bed feeling what was like the end of the world, a scared shitless kid having what was probably panic attacks. It was so overwhelming, I just wanted it to stop. The last time I looked at the clock it was 3 in the morning, still feeling it. I don't know if it was starting to wear off or if I was just getting used to it, but at this point I wasn't freaking out as bad. I must have fallen asleep between 3 or 4. I woke up the next morning disoriented, but back to earth. For some reason I decided to not stay home, and went off to school. That first day afterwards was the worst. I couldn't focus on anything, everything was foggy, and it seemed like my vision was totally out of whack. The numbers in my math book looked like they were popping out a little bit in 3d, and it was just a horrible day. The whole next week was like this, but not as bad as that first day.


Now this next part is what people roll their eyes about... To this day I still have negative effects from this experience. Immediately following this nightmare I thought I was going crazy. L said that he felt the effects for about a week after that night and then was fine. Since he was back to normal shortly afterwards, and I still felt like I was in a dream, I went to the doctor. I never told my doctor what I did because my mom was right there, but I described all of my symptoms. I still feel like I'm in a dream 24 hours a day. It has to do with my vision more than anything else. The best way to describe it is to think of a dream you had or a memory. The way everything looks to me is as if I'm remembering a memory, as compared to actually seeing everything around me in real time. It's really weird, but I don't know how else to say it. On top of that, my vision is all messed up in darkness. You know how when you were a kid, have you ever closed your eyes really hard and press on them, let go and you see stars? Well that's what everything looks like in darkness. I also feel really detached, sometimes more than others, from everything going on around me. Sometimes I can put myself into a semi-catatonic state in an instant, like I'm going into a deep meditative state in a few seconds.

I also used to get "flashbacks." I guess that's what you could call these episodes. I haven't had one of these for years, but they were horrible. They didn't bring me back to that night 100%, but I would have a sort of panic attack. Everything would echo, I would feel the WOMP WOMP waves, things would start to distort. They wouldn't totally warp like they did that night, just slightly start to warp or distort. My vision would go totally nuts, almost like things just wouldn't register. I could see, but it wouldn't register. I would get total tunnel vision. My whole peripheral would just be a blur. They could last up to 30 minutes, followed by a pretty harsh headache. These attacks would usually only come on if I was moving quickly. It happened probably 5 or 6 times while I was riding my bike through the woods. It felt almost like the trees surrounding me overwhelmed my eyes, and I just started to shut down. It also happened maybe 2 or 3 times while driving in the car. One of the times it happened in the car my mom was fighting with my brother. My mom thought that these attacks were just from stress, but I think it was more from the loud noise of their voices and the car moving. Sometimes the attacks would come when stress was involved, but it also occured when there was no stress.

For the next year I was shipped around from doctor to doctor who prescribed med after med. First they thought I was having some sort of migraine, so I was on just about every migraine medication there was. That didn't help, so they started putting me on anti-depressants like amitriptyline and prozac, saying that these will help my "migraines." These only made it worse, clouding everything up.

After going to a neurologist and many other doctors, they thought something with my eyesight was causing these symptoms. The furthest I've ever gotten with these doctors was the conclusion that I have ocular migraines. I went to an opthamologist and they ran a bunch of tests, concluding that either my rods(light photoreceptors) and/or my cones(color photoreceptors) were not working properly. This was then causing these ocular migraines that are causing the tunnel vision and other odd symptoms. Their cure was giving me a small rectangular lens, and picture of a cat. I taped the picture to a wall and put the lens over my eye for 10 seconds, switched eyes, and then looked at something through my window across the street. I was supposed to do this exercise twice a day. This did nothing for me at all, so after a few months I stopped and went back to the doctor. They basically said they didn't know what was wrong with me, and that I was either going to have to take some more anti-depressants or just learn to live with it.

Well, I decided to learn to live with it, and my life hasn't been the same since that night. I experimented with MANY different drugs during high school trying to self medicate this feeling out of me(staying away from orange powder of course). The only thing that seemed to make it worse was pot. Once in a great while, smoking a little cannabis could bring on a semi-flashback. Out of my drug experimenting phase, I ended up trying oxycontin. It was the most wonderful thing in the world. Not because it totally rocked my world, but it seemed to make those odd symptoms go away a little bit. When I was on opiates it felt like I wasn't as detached as I used to be. Under the influence of opiates doesn't usually make the average person more focused, but it did for me. To make a long story short, I ended up with a nasty 5-year long heroin/any opiate I could find addiction. After a year in the methadone clinic, and a few months tapering off of that with suboxone, I'm now opiate free.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~What a weird dream

Now that SWIM is totally off of opiates and other drugs, except for his occasional ayahuasca brew, these symptoms are starting to come back. They were always there(especially the weird vision), even when on opiates, but just not as bad. The heroin seemed to dull these symptoms away. Now that SWIM is totally detoxed, everything is starting to get cloudy again. SWIM hasn't had one of the panic attack flashbacks for a few years now, but he's starting to feel the cloudy head and disassociative states again.

I guess why SWIM is posting this in this forum is because he still don't know what happened to him. To this day he doesn't know what was on that pot. By looking on erowid the closest thing he can compare his experience to would be PCP, but he's not totally convinced. First of all it was an orange powder. On erowid it says PCP comes in liquid or white powder. PCP would be a good candidate being a disassociative, and looking up on disassociative brain damage I read that it can cause problems with "certain aspects of visual perception." I also read that the longer a person is feeling the effects from disassociatives, the higher the risk of permanent brain damage. I was freaking out from 7pm to 3am in my dream, so that makes sense. PCP isn't supposed to last that long, but whatever was on it was a much higher dose than what it was supposed to be. But the rest of SWIM's symptoms don't really tie in with disassociative brain damage. L was fine after that first week, but SWIM is still screwed up. L said it wore off for him by 10 or 11 o'clock. I was 11 years old who had never tried anything in my dream, and L was 15 or 16 who had tried quite a bit for that age, but still. I'm not totally convinced that SWIM has disassociated brain damage and there's nothing he can do.

Why do the opiates seem to have such a positive effect? What in the hell is wrong with SWIM? I know this all sounds like a cliche, don't smoke weed kids it will mess you up, but it happened. SWIM knows he did this to himself, but unfortunately it happened. Any opinions would be appreciated.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	self incrimination
	interesting and informative post
	Should have gave this one rep earlier, very nice read.

[Powder_Reality]

Sorry for your misfortune. From what you've written, it seems like the most likely substance that could've been in that weed was PCP. I've heard of weed laced with PCP being called "killer weed" in some areas, and your experience seems to confirm that that's probably what was in the weed. But the fact that it was an orange powder is odd. I know that in Australia, some DMT is an orange coloured crystal, but the primary effects of DMT should wear of within 30 mins. SWIM had a slight case of HPPD (Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder) from partaking in mushrooms, ketamine, MDMA, and various other substances when he was younger. HPPD is when a person experiences perceptual disturbances and/or flashbacks due to the use of pychoactive/psychedelic substances. SWIM's HPPD only lasted about a year, tapering off more and more every month. His symptoms included a layer of static over his field of vision, escpecially in dark areas, as well as pulsating "splotches" of neon greens and purples on light surfaces (such as walls, ceilings, etc.) SWIM still sees the splotches sometimes, as well as eye wiggling. The visuals aren't as apparent as they would be if they were drug induced, more like they're lightly overlayed over his field of vision. My guess is that since you were so young when this happened to you and your mind was still developing, it may have affected you more than someone who was older. Of course, I'm no doctor, it's just my educated guess. For more info on HPPD check out this site: http://hppdponline.com/index.php

Hope things get better for you.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great info

[IHrtHalucingens]

The thing that gets me about the whole thing is that it took over 5 minutes for the effects to be felt. Usually when smoking something the effects are felt within 7-10 seconds.

SWIM has smoked "boat", pcp laced weed, before but felt none of the effects given. He just felt the normal dissociation. However he has never done a large dose of PCP before so he is not sure what those effects would be.

SWIM has done a large dose of ketamine before and felt a dream like state and often when people k hole they have a near death like experience, but SWIMs never experienced visual distortions like you mentioned with any dissociative. And smoking ketamine is very inefficient i would think you would need a very large dose to feel effects liek the ones you described.

PS. Read the rules on self incrimination and SWIM.

[Ataraxia]

The layer of static over my vision field is a lot better way of describing it than the stars. I don't really get the splotches, but sometimes I do perceive what it looks like after you stare at a light for a while. I get the static much more than splotches and trails, thought I sometimes do get those.

I really appreciate that link. HPPD describes my symptoms perfectly. Even though it's kind of scary, I feel relieved to finally put a name to what I'm dealing with. The visuals I experience are definitely HPPD. On the site it said that it usually wears off within a year, but can last for over 5 years in extreme cases. On the board over there there are people who have had it for as long as I have. Since my brain was underdeveloped, that's probably why I still feel it just as much as I did 9 years ago. As for my other symptoms, they can be caused by depersonalization/derealization that come with extreme cases of HPPD.

Now that it's pretty clear I have HPPD, what could have been in that weed? I thought it was PCP because of the disassociative symptoms I have, but it sounds more like DP/DR from the HPPD.

[Powder_Reality]

Your description of perceiving what it looks like after you stare at a light is actually a better description of the splotches that SWIM sees. I guess the effects can be quite similar between people. SWIM knows what you mean about feeling better knowing what you're suffering from. Being able to put a name on it and knowing that other people are experiencing the same thing can be comforting, as opposed to thinking that you quite simply just "messed yourself up" and don't know why you feel the way that you do. HPPD hasn't been studied very extensively by the medical community, although it seems to effect quite a lot of people. More research should probably be performed on it to try to help extreme cases, as the effects can be quite disconcerting. As to what could've been in the weed, I'm still baffled. Of course everybody reacts differently to different chemicals, but you described some pretty extreme effects. The fact that it was an orange powder really stumps me. Maybe somebody else on the forum might have a better idea of what it could've been.

[psyche]

My friend(I mean it) familiarized himself with weed about two months ago and smoked it a few times. He almost always gets (at least according to his testimony) what would almost be called a trip. After he had his first anaesthesia in dentist, he started having these weird feelings. For example, when he touches his face, it seems like it happens 30cm from his head. He has those same effects when he's up in smoke. It seems unpropable to me that it could be triggered by weed, other option is him being allercig to anaesthetics. Any ideas?

[Forthesevenlakes]

Originally Posted by psyche

My friend(I mean it) familiarized himself with weed about two months ago and smoked it a few times. He almost always gets (at least according to his testimony) what would almost be called a trip. After he had his first anaesthesia in dentist, he started having these weird feelings. For example, when he touches his face, it seems like it happens 30cm from his head. He has those same effects when he's up in smoke. It seems unpropable to me that it could be triggered by weed, other option is him being allercig to anaesthetics. Any ideas?

swim has similar feelings when he smokes, his face always seems about that distance from his head. never had that happen with anesthesia though. its possible that it could be triggered by weed, and just a rather rare and specific effect.

[Ataraxia]

Anything could be possible, but seeing that there was a pretty thick layer of something on some pretty cheap weed, probably not. SWIM has smoked a lot bigger quantity of much more potent buds, and it doesn't even touch the surface of what he experienced.

[psyche]

swim has similar feelings when he smokes, his face always seems about that distance from his head. never had that happen with anesthesia though. its possible that it could be triggered by weed, and just a rather rare and specific effect.

Ok I didn't put my words well. What I meant was that he now has these effects every single day without getting high. He's starting to be concerned.

[VincentVan]

Dear Ataraxia
I just read with great interest the story of your dream and it makes a lot of sense to me.
SWIM too has experienced reality distorting episodes and flash backs after assumptions of allucinogenic drugs. Luckily for him they always disappeared after a while and it all was a long time ago, but he still distinctly remembers how uncomfortable and scary it was.
Based on the informations you give, I also feel inclined to think that the substance that caused your problem is most probably PCP.
I have also heard PCP laced cannabis being referred to as killer weed , nor should you think that the colour has a great importance in identifing a substance; the effects of it are a much more reliable standard.
The colour could be influenced by a quantity of factors, prominent among which the storage of the substance, the rafination process, and the cut all come to mind.
I belive that due to your young age and to a neural structure that has been disturbed during a sensitive developing period, the substance has modified the delicate balance between neurotransmitters, receptors and the glandular precursors of some of those neurotransmitters.
This would also neatly explain why opioids,( with their well known action on mu , kappa, tau and other receptors) would provide relief from your symptoms.
This does not mean that you should resign yourself to live with these symptoms or to be a slave of medications.
There are many other ways to act on imbalances of neurotransmitters whose glandular precursor can be stimulated like most other organs of the body.
If , as you say, part of the symptomatology reflects on visual perception, a strong stimulation of those faculties associated to activities known to increase the level of specific neurotransmitters could be of great help.
For exemple: do you practice any physical intensive sports? Skiing or free climbing would seem specially indicated because of the spatial and coordination skills they involve, while the phisical activity they require at the same time, is intense enough to stimulate the production of the neurotransmitters in question.
OK, probably I picked those two because they are among my favoured activities,but other sports like judo or the martial arts, steplechase and other track and field and athletic activities may prove of great help.
Alternatively I know of some psychiatic specialists who racomand yoga for similar pathologies.
I would also like to suggest that you take a look to a little book that has been of some help to me and that contain some useful tips and suggestions.
It´s called "Relief without drugs" by Ainslie Meares , MD, DPM.

Let me know what you think.
VV

"My mind was like a stranger, a cold-hearted stranger with a gun in his hands"
(Jeff Noon. "Vurt".)

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good post. Very complete and helpful.
	I agree, you're a smart guy

[podge]

maybe the weed was laced in some strange research chemical ? iv heard about research chemicals that can be smoked and are powerful hallucinagens ......just a guess though.swiy has obviously asked " L " about this killer weed, or asked him to get onto whoever was his dealer at the time for further info?

[Nature Boy]

Dunno whether it's likely that weed would be laced with RC's. Wouldn't it be a little cost inefficient considering how much these RC's cost? Could have been PCP though.

[trip.more]

it might have just been cannabis in some people it can trigger panick attacks

[Powder_Reality]

SWIM has experienced panic attacks when he was sober and high. Although they can be quite unnerving, SWIM says they are nowhere near as intense as Ataraxia's account. Although their have been claims made that marijuana can be a factor is developing HPPD, SWIM doesn't think that a combination of a panic attack and being high would be the sole reason that someone develops HPPD symptoms. In SWIM's opinion, Ataraxia's experience lasted too long and had too varied effects to just be marijuana.

[Ataraxia]

SWIM never really smoked a lot of pot, because after that experience the weed would sometimes trigger a panic attack. It kind of felt like certain aspects of the nightmare, but not really. SWIM was probably having a 6 hour panic attack during the nightmare, on top of the effects from the killer weed, so that is probably why these panic attacks from the weed seem somewhat similar.

These weren't anything close to the full-blown flashbacks SWIM got out of the blue, but they were still pretty scary. Now SWIM can smoke cannabis with no problems at all, but the first 3 or 4 years after the nightmare it was not fun for him when those rare panic attacks kicked in. Even though the weed triggered these attacks, I'm more than positive it wasn't just pot. I doubt it was an RC, because SWIM has experience with those, and that nightmare felt nothing like a psychedelic drug. It was definitely hallucinogenic, because everything was melting and distorting, but other than that there was nothing else similar. Rarely on psychedelics SWIM feels like he's losing his mind, but it felt like his mind was far lost on this stuff. It was a really dirty and disturbing experience for SWIM.

Those first few years were the worst for SWIM. He doesn't have the panic attacks or flashbacks anymore, from pot or otherwise, but he does still have some of the same symptoms. Visual problems, mostly being the 24hour static, with some days having extreme feelings of depersonalization/derealization.

Now that SWIM is no longer on the opiates, he has started jogging to get back in shape, and this does seem to help the DP/DR a little bit, but the static/weird vision is still always there. SWIM will have to get into something that will help him with his spatial and coordination skills.

[eltimmy]

Ataraxia: Bill White (of DXM-faq fame) wrote this on another forum. You might find it useful --

What you're describing sounds like HPPD -- hallucinogen persisting perceptual disorder. Nobody's sure why it happens, but what's going on is you've become aware of the intermediate stages of visual processing. It's *not* brain damage, just a learned effect.

Normally we filter out the noise and weird patterns in our vision -- we grow up with it there all the time so we learn not to pay attention to it. My suspicion is that psychedelic drugs can make people notice it and pay attention to it, and the more you pay attention to it, the stronger it becomes (some psychedelics may enhance this learning process in the visual cortex). But the point is everyone *sees* this shit, it's just most people filter it out and don't notice it, the same way they don't notice seeing their nose (close one eye and you'll see it), or the white blood cells moving in their retinal capillaries (look up at a deep blue sky and you'll see them), or the scratches on their corneas (which most people have), or their retinal blind spot.

Some people think tinnitus -- ringing in your ears -- is the same way: everyone has ringing in their ears, most people just haven't paid attention and noticed it, but the more you pay attention the worse it gets.

There's no real treatment for it -- antianxiety meds for people who freak out about it -- except to not pay attention. I've had it, by the way. What I did was to pay attention to how it "feels" different to focus on the different layers of visual processing. For example when I'm paying attention to what I'm actually seeing it feels like my vision is "pushed forward", when I pay attention to the noise and afterimages and motion trails and wiggling walls and all that it feels like my vision is "in the middle", and when I'm seeing things in my imagination it feels like my vision is "pulled back".

Once I associated a feeling with the different attentional states, it was much easier to change where my attention was. After spending a few months training myself to move my attention, and then forcing myself to keep my vision "pushed forward" and pay attention to the outside world -- and it helped to avoid looking at certain things like even-toned walls, certain patterns, etc -- it got much, much better. Now I don't even notice it except when I want to.

I had to stay off drugs (all drugs including alcohol) for awhile, too, to make it easier to learn how to change it. Some people have to stay sober permanently, but once I learned how to consciously move my attention I never had a problem even after tripping again. Maybe I'm just lucky tho.

If learning how to move your attention through different stages of visual processing doesn't work, do everything you can to not pay attention to it. Listen to music. Watch TV or movies. Hang out with friends. Play video games. Read. Anything that makes it easier to keep your mind off it.

It's not usually dangerous, if you're ever in a situation where you *must* pay attention your brain will do its job. But it can be distracting as hell.