Piperazines compared to ephedrine.

[mala_22]

Ive tried epehedrine based ecstasy alternatives, which of course are nowhere near the real thing, but I find they give me lots of energy some very slight rushes and an increased desire to listen to music.

Ive considered trying something containing piperazines (which are legal here) but im wondering how they compare to ephedrine, a number of reports seem to give similar experiences to ephedrine.

What are the opinions of people who have tried both these types of ecstasy alternative. does piperazines give anything extra to ephedrine or have any othe advantages?

Reputation Comments on this post:

self incrimination

[Nagognog2]

Before proceeding to post in these forums, you MUST first familiarize yourself with the rules here. Pay close attention to the rules regarding self-incrimination and learn to use SWIM (Someone Who Isn't Me) or equivalent. Proceeding without abiding by our rules can and will get you banned.

The rules can be found here:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/a...t.php?f=43&a=1

[mala_22]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Before proceeding to post in these forums, you MUST first familiarize yourself with the rules here. Pay close attention to the rules regarding self-incrimination and learn to use SWIM (Someone Who Isn't Me) or equivalent. Proceeding without abiding by our rules can and will get you banned.

Apologies if I broke the rules, I did read all the rules before posting, but assumed it was impossible to incriminate myself if all substances discussed were legal where I live.

[robin_himself]

please read the forum rules before you post, you're violating our community's law of Self Incrimination.

As for the piperazine issue... Swim has tried pills containing piperazine and found the experience nothing like ephedrine or MDMA (swim encounters alot of piperazine pills sold as MDMA)

Swim his limbs felt very tired and with slight irritation, also swim hallucinated a bit which he didn't really expect to do.

If you compare the stimulation of both substances ephedrine comes out on top for swim, he didn't like piperazines much.

SORRY nagognog you are to quick :P


Damn right! LOL!

[Thirdedge]

Swim agrees, ephedrine is far superior to Piperazines, Piperazines just have too many nasty side effects. Unfortunetly its illegal here, most likely because its a precursor for meth.

[a-SalviaLover]

According to SWIM's experiences ephedrine is far worser than BZP based pills. Ephedrine produces more nasty side effects, such as tachycardia and increased blood pressure and not much motivation and alertness. BZP is surely a better stimulant from ephedrine and produces as whole far lighter comedown effects than a large dose of meth for example. The nasty side effects people get are mainly from TFMPP, which is a mild hallucinogen, put in combination to BZP to mimic MDMA's effects. SWIM hasn't tried this combo, yet, but he can assure you that if you seek sth psychoactive, these pills are a lot better from herbal ecstasies, though they are probably nowhere near to the one and only MDMA.

[a-SalviaLover]

According to SWIM's experiences ephedrine is far worser than BZP based pills. Ephedrine produces more nasty side effects, such as tachycardia and increased blood pressure and not much motivation and alertness. BZP is surely a better stimulant from ephedrine and produces as whole far lighter comedown effects than a large dose of meth for example. The nasty side effects people get are mainly from TFMPP, which is a mild hallucinogen, put in combination to BZP to mimic MDMA's effects. SWIM hasn't tried this combo, yet, but he can assure you that if you seek sth psychoactive, these pills are a lot better from herbal ecstasies, though they are probably nowhere near to the one and only MDMA.

[PhoenixOnPhire]

When you guys talk about the side effects and come down from the Ephedrine, you are refering to the large doses in the fake X right? (opposed to the small doses people take for weight loss and asthma control)

[IHrtHalucingens]

Just for good measures we like everyone to use SWIM all the time, it makes for more consistency in the threads and helps other newbies get into the hang of it. =)

[Nagognog2]

Also - what is legal where you may live may not be where others are located. You are aware this is an international community, yes?

[mala_22]

Of course, so people who live in different areas can use SWIM in their replies.

[Nagognog2]

Originally Posted by mala_22

Of course, so people who live in different areas can use SWIM in their replies.

No - we do not have the time or resources to make one rule for a person in the UK, and another for someone in Mongolia. SWIM, or equivalent, is to be used regardless of your laws where you reside. There is no exception. This is cast in stone. So get used to it. You can be creative and have fun with this, you know!

[mala_22]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

SWIM, or equivalent, is to be used regardless of your laws where you reside. There is no exception. This is cast in stone. So get used to it. You can be creative and have fun with this, you know!

Then this should to be stated in the rules, it currently states.-

"It is not allowed to post that you are going to do or have done any illegal activity"

While it should state something more like.-

"It is not allowed to post that you are going to do or have done any activity, relating to any substance discussed on this forum"

[PhoenixOnPhire]

I am well aware many need to get the hang of the rules, but this is also an informative forum, my question has been left unanswered

[blue_eyes]

My opinion on this one is that SWIY should stop trying to take various substances in an attempt to achieve the effects of a different substance, namely mdma in this situation.

Take ephedrine for what it is, and for what it does for SWIY.

Same goes for piperazines. SWIY should try them with the mind set that these pills give a high in their own right. They can produce effects like mdma. However, I suggest SWIY views this as a mere parallel between the two substances, not an actual reason for taking piperazines.

[a-SalviaLover]

Well, people everywhere on the world are responsible for what they are saying but that's a different matter.

[Nagognog2]

There is one common effect I have noted from those who use piperazine compounds: Being short-tempered. Anyone else ever noticed this?

[Forthesevenlakes]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

There is one common effect I have noted from those who use piperazine compounds: Being short-tempered. Anyone else ever noticed this?

piperazines work on the serotinergic and dopaminergic reuptake systems, much like amphetamines and cocaine, and to swim's understanding, mdma. most of these phamacologically similar drugs are capable of inducing a short temper and aggression, so it makes sense that piperazines would too. swim is guessing that it wouldnt be to the same extent as, say, meth, but its certainly a side effect swim has witnessed in lab rats. in swim's experience, use of these drugs in the wrong frame of mind can lead to aggressive thoughts, where only negative qualities of other lab rats are noticed, and this in turn creates short-tempered behavior. swim would be interested in finding out if anyone else has this cognitive aggression accompanied by the behavior as well.

[Alicia]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

There is one common effect I have noted from those who use piperazine compounds: Being short-tempered. Anyone else ever noticed this?

Bearing in mind piperazine is sold in different blends in variations. to swia and boyo's knowledge we haven't come across any aggressive or short tempered like behavior, maybe if they have been using for days on end and sugar levels depleted can cause that behavior. Nag are you referring to pure piperazine compounds or the products?

[blue_eyes]

swim hasn't noticed any increased agression or short-temperedness during or after her use of piperazines. I think those who are naturally predisposed to such moods/behaviours, are the ones who would be more likely to experience such side effects, as opposed to those people who do not have the tendency to behave in such a manner. This isn't to say that people who don't normally exhibit such behaviour WON'T be bad tempered, but just that they would be less likely to be, following the use of piperazines.

[Explosions In The Sky]

SWIM has a friend who took PEP pills for the first time and had nothing but agressive thoughts and impulses for the duration of its effects. SWIM has noticed his friend have similar reactions to cocain and speed. SWIM thinks that because his friend is always so 'up' and energetic naturally (without any substance), that when he takes something like PEP pills, the influx of extra energy manifests itself in aggression for release.

SWIM has noticed short temperedness for around 5 days following the use of piperazines. That and a general numbness to life.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good post

[a-SalviaLover]

Originally Posted by Explosions In The Sky

SWIM has a friend who took PEP pills for the first time and had nothing but agressive thoughts and impulses for the duration of its effects. SWIM has noticed his friend have similar reactions to cocain and speed. SWIM thinks that because his friend is always so 'up' and energetic naturally (without any substance), that when he takes something like PEP pills, the influx of extra energy manifests itself in aggression for release.

SWIM has noticed short temperedness for around 5 days following the use of piperazines. That and a general numbness to life.

A friend of SWIM is also energetic naturally and he said it made him more tired than rushing from energy.

There is one common effect I have noted from those who use piperazine compounds: Being short-tempered. Anyone else ever noticed this?

SWIM has noticed completely the opposite effect from BZP esp after a long break. Then the serotonergic effects are felt and they make him calm and happy. After use for several weeks, however, he get's really irritated and has no clear memories for the period he has been on the drug. However, he has noticed that Amino Acids (rich in tyrosine and tryptophan), vitamins and Ginkgo Biloba reduced to zero theese unpleasant side effects and helped him alot with his school exams. He got excelent marks in all subjects and he guesses he has ADD, the sluggish type.

This is SWIM's reaction to BZP. As for the other piperazines SWIM hasn't tried them, but they have a completely different pharmacological profile and it might be possible for them to cause such reactions.

[Thirdedge]

Back to the topic of dicussion: Piperazines compared to ephedrine - While the piperazines are no doubt far stronger, they have had very little research carried out on them, while ephedrine (brewed from the ephedra plant) has been used safely for many years. So at least with ephedra you know its not gonna make your dick drop off 20 years down the track.
Most ephedra side effects are experienced by those with heart problems, people who are obese, or bodybuilders doing heavy isometric exercise (placing double strain on the heart.) Whereas with Piperazines the side effects effect nearly everyone.

[Thirdedge]

BTW, it is swims personal belief that the negative effects of Ephedrine have been exagerated by the authorities, this is the norm when it comes to herbs with recreational potential and if its not the case with ephedra then the boy shouldn,t have cried wolf so much in the past.

[psyche]

Nag are you referring to pure piperazine compounds or the products?

I think nag is referring to mala's last post being annoying...