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  #1  
Old 31-10-2012, 21:41
MrMunchies MrMunchies is offline
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Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use.

Well, ever since I picked up my last bag of herbal incense, I have noticed a couple of problems. Weird problems that I DO NOT like having. The weird thing was, that when I smelled this bag upon being opened, I noticed that it just smelled 'toxic'. Not sure exactly what toxic smells like, but it just smelled toxic. Just like straight chemicals.

Well, the first problem I noticed upon exhaling on this blend, was that right when the high came on I was greeted by a pain in the middle of my right leg, and it just felt like my leg was 'shutting down'. Which was strange. After the first couple of times smoking this blend, I then noticed another negative symptom which was that now after every hit I was taking from this blend I was greeted by gas, bloating, and had to use the bathroom. This was happening after each hit from the blend I took. I want to also add, that my body waste was not solid what so ever.

Another problem I have noticed is that this particular blend and a few others that probably use the same chemicals make me do this strange thing where after I smoke it a few time I just start nodding and passing out, and ill just stare off until I do so.

I would just like to know why these blends do this? The older synthetic blends did not, just these newer ones.

I understand that they have to go through the GI tract, but do you think these newer ones could put more of a toll on it?

What other parts of my body am I hurting with these blends?
  #2  
Old 01-11-2012, 00:21
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

Well coming from someone who is mid taper this shit is hands down more addictive then heroin 10x. Stop ASAP can cause bad long term problems can't eat sleep always sad feline of dread and doom basically a living hell. Good luck brotha we are the front lines of this battle & there is always casualties in war.
  #3  
Old 01-11-2012, 10:36
MrMunchies MrMunchies is offline
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

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Originally Posted by barndtman84 View Post
Well coming from someone who is mid taper this shit is hands down more addictive then heroin 10x. Stop ASAP can cause bad long term problems can't eat sleep always sad feline of dread and doom basically a living hell. Good luck brotha we are the front lines of this battle & there is always casualties in war.

I am actually very surprised no one has directly died from this shit. The feelings I get when using I can only describe them as my body shutting down. Now, this may or may not be happening, but I do not like it.

Why are these blends so addicting? It is almost impossible for anyone I know or myself to use them in a responsible way.
  #4  
Old 01-11-2012, 11:16
ianzombie ianzombie is nu online
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMunchies View Post
Why are these blends so addicting? It is almost impossible for anyone I know or myself to use them in a responsible way.
This thread might help
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=196042
  #5  
Old 01-11-2012, 14:55
MrMunchies MrMunchies is offline
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianzombie View Post

I have read this thread, but I still just cannot wrap my head around the whole thing. I used to smoke the older blends, the original ones, for a long time too. I would also binge out on these blends, the difference was I did not get an EXTREME mental/physical addiction, I also did not get the shits and body cramps, nor did I pass out.

Whats the deal? What exactly makes these blends different from the others? Why does one canabinoid last fifteen minutes and make me shit my pants while another lasts an entire hour and produces only positive effects?
  #6  
Old 01-11-2012, 17:10
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMunchies View Post
After the first couple of times smoking this blend, I then noticed another negative symptom which was that now after every hit I was taking from this blend I was greeted by gas, bloating, and had to use the bathroom. This was happening after each hit from the blend I took. I want to also add, that my body waste was not solid what so ever.
I smoked one of those blends for a week and stoppe two month ago. I still have permanent bloating, I hope it will eventually stop. I guess it is from a destroyed gut flora....
  #7  
Old 01-11-2012, 17:19
iR Caru iR Caru is offline
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMunchies View Post
I have read this thread, but I still just cannot wrap my head around the whole thing. I used to smoke the older blends, the original ones, for a long time too. I would also binge out on these blends, the difference was I did not get an EXTREME mental/physical addiction, I also did not get the shits and body cramps, nor did I pass out.

Whats the deal? What exactly makes these blends different from the others? Why does one canabinoid last fifteen minutes and make me shit my pants while another lasts an entire hour and produces only positive effects?


This is because you're consuming different chemicals, with different effects.

Just because the chemicals that were in the older blends are cannabinoids, and as are the new ones, it doesn't mean they'll demonstrate the exact same effects.

While they may bind to the same sites, they bind differently. They bind much stronger, on both CB1 and CB2. There are tons of different places where cannabinoid receptors are located(there's a TON peripherally in the gut).

The different chemicals have different structures(some of the newer ones are looking even further from the original cannabinoids). The different structures effects how your body handles it. It's very possible that some cannabinoids will demonstrate other effects, as well, on other receptors(for example, they could effect serotonin or otherwise just slightly). The human body is so complex; imagine all the different emotions, thoughts, ect, that are possible. There's tons of slightly varying receptors in your body to make these possible, and different drugs will effect them in different ways. On top of that, the different structures means different metabolism. THC, for example, metabolizes into a chemical psychoactive in it's own right.

The lack of knowledge we have on these compounds means that no one knows what exactly is causing these body cramps, and other side effects. It could be the chemical's itself and the way our bodies react, just like most drugs as simple withdrawals, or there could be toxic metabolites causing your body to shut down. The sky is the limit.

Personally, these recent blends, I have found, do very much the same. My first hit, I get horribly, uncontrollably nauseous for about 30 seconds. From there, I normally throw up most mornings I go without, and have an extremely uncomfortable pain in my left side(my lower ribs are very tender for some reason), and I often get a cramp over my left hip similar to when you do physical activity after eating.
  #8  
Old 01-11-2012, 19:14
MrMunchies MrMunchies is offline
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

Quote:
Originally Posted by iR Caru View Post
This is because you're consuming different chemicals, with different effects.

Just because the chemicals that were in the older blends are cannabinoids, and as are the new ones, it doesn't mean they'll demonstrate the exact same effects.

While they may bind to the same sites, they bind differently. They bind much stronger, on both CB1 and CB2. There are tons of different places where cannabinoid receptors are located(there's a TON peripherally in the gut).

The different chemicals have different structures(some of the newer ones are looking even further from the original cannabinoids). The different structures effects how your body handles it. It's very possible that some cannabinoids will demonstrate other effects, as well, on other receptors(for example, they could effect serotonin or otherwise just slightly). The human body is so complex; imagine all the different emotions, thoughts, ect, that are possible. There's tons of slightly varying receptors in your body to make these possible, and different drugs will effect them in different ways. On top of that, the different structures means different metabolism. THC, for example, metabolizes into a chemical psychoactive in it's own right.

The lack of knowledge we have on these compounds means that no one knows what exactly is causing these body cramps, and other side effects. It could be the chemical's itself and the way our bodies react, just like most drugs as simple withdrawals, or there could be toxic metabolites causing your body to shut down. The sky is the limit.

Personally, these recent blends, I have found, do very much the same. My first hit, I get horribly, uncontrollably nauseous for about 30 seconds. From there, I normally throw up most mornings I go without, and have an extremely uncomfortable pain in my left side(my lower ribs are very tender for some reason), and I often get a cramp over my left hip similar to when you do physical activity after eating.
May I ask then, why do you continue to use these blends? For me, it is the high. The high is down right amazing. But I have to stop, I'm trying to get into the 'I will NEVER be high from a synthetic noid again' mood.
  #9  
Old 02-11-2012, 02:08
Yet Another Junkie Yet Another Junkie is offline
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

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Originally Posted by MrMunchies View Post
May I ask then, why do you continue to use these blends? For me, it is the high. The high is down right amazing. But I have to stop, I'm trying to get into the 'I will NEVER be high from a synthetic noid again' mood.
Well, my donkey applies the same theory to smoking blends as he uses for buying salsa at the supermarket. He loves salsa very much and is a great treat from time to time. The salsa that is at the supermarket, costs more, and sometimes gets donkey very ill. So, donkey begin making his own salsa, with fresh ingredient. Donkey is much happier now because of paying less, better results, and doesn't have to make a trip to the store as often.
  #10  
Old 02-11-2012, 02:13
Paranoia-Agent Paranoia-Agent is offline
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

Hello Mr.Munchies.
A friend of mine has developed a brain tumor because of his incense use.
I urge you to not use the stuff as well as see a doctor if any thing happens after quitting.
I know many people who are going through long-term issues because of it.
Another friend of mine pukes and gets migraines because of it.
  #11  
Old 02-11-2012, 05:31
iR Caru iR Caru is offline
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMunchies View Post
May I ask then, why do you continue to use these blends? For me, it is the high. The high is down right amazing. But I have to stop, I'm trying to get into the 'I will NEVER be high from a synthetic noid again' mood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMunchies View Post
May I ask then, why do you continue to use these blends? For me, it is the high. The high is down right amazing. But I have to stop, I'm trying to get into the 'I will NEVER be high from a synthetic noid again' mood.

Because of how powerfully addicting the substances can be.
While the side effects suck pretty bad, the mental high and euphoria are extremely strong.

But what keeps me smoking is fear of withdrawals, honestly. Withdrawals from these substances can be EXTREME, and as such, it's almost a scarey game of hide-and-seek.
I can honestly say I have been next to suicide because of how terrible I've felt withdrawing in the past.
When you wake up 3 hours after falling asleep, because your stomach is churning and then you start coughing so hard you vomit... When all you have to vomit is bile because your stomach is empty... And yet your stomach is still trying to vomit while you dry heave.. You lose strength. You lose your ability to say no when you're honestly afraid of dying or getting severely ill from malnutrition/dehydration.

As of right now, for me, it almost seems better to keep the addiction on it's edge until I can develop a better plan of kicking the stuff. Trying to closely monitor my use, and only dose when I feel I'm getting nauseous. I try not to smoke as much. Honestly, I wish I could just stop. It's not quite that simple.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoia-Agent View Post
Hello Mr.Munchies.
A friend of mine has developed a brain tumor because of his incense use.
I urge you to not use the stuff as well as see a doctor if any thing happens after quitting.
I know many people who are going through long-term issues because of it.
Another friend of mine pukes and gets migraines because of it.
As your name suggests, I feel as though there's a level of paranoia involved with this. How can your friend say for sure that the brain tumor developed solely from incense use?

Granted, smoking anything will raise your chances of developing cancer and I wouldn't be surprised if it were the cause. However, it's pretty hard to say as a fact that something specifically caused a brain tumor.
  #12  
Old 02-11-2012, 11:05
MrMunchies MrMunchies is offline
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

I am not going to quote your giant post and create another giant post haha..

But anyhow, thanks for that post. It is really making me think twice about venturing further into synthetic cannabinoids, make I should do as someone else said and make my own 'salsa'

I cannot honestly see though why you do not just quit. Quitting cold turkey is the only way to go, but man if your worried about the withdrawals just think about how much they will suck in a few months, or a year, or when you die. Think about that.

I am craving the synthetics VERY bad, but I am going to try to bunker down and the next time if there is one, maybe try a different blend and use it responsibly as possible.
  #13  
Old 02-11-2012, 13:37
iR Caru iR Caru is offline
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

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Originally Posted by MrMunchies View Post
I cannot honestly see though why you do not just quit. Quitting cold turkey is the only way to go, but man if your worried about the withdrawals just think about how much they will suck in a few months, or a year, or when you die. Think about that.

I am craving the synthetics VERY bad, but I am going to try to bunker down and the next time if there is one, maybe try a different blend and use it responsibly as possible.

Because of how severe the withdrawals can be, i'm merely attempting to avoid the withdrawals by dragging out my use until I can get a good supply of real marijuana, which I will try to use in baked goods to keep food down and to have the longest possible effects without redosing.

That's mainly the issue. For about 5 days, the entire sight of food makes me sick. Almost nothing will stay down well. Even most soup(if it was more than just broth) would come up. So after a few days, my body just wants to quit entirely because it's becoming malnourished. Orangle, apple, grape juices all settled very badly, as well. I was stuck to water and gatorade mostly(which was at least helping replenish lost electrolytes from vomiting).

The depression and cravings are bareable compared to how I feel after I throw up. It's a mixture of fatigue, exhaustion, pain, depression, anger, and desperation. It really isn't quite as simple as going cold turkey.

Actually, I do have a plan for quitting, though. When I can, I'll be buying an ounce of real marijuana.
I already decided how I'll be spreading it, too. I'll be using about half to make baked goods, which will be cut into 14 individual brownies(one for the morning, one for night). From there, I will roll seven 1g blunts, and separate the rest into 1g piles. This will give me 2 brownies, ~1g each(shouldn't get me stoned, but borderline enough to reduce nausea and vomiting and possibly assist in sleeping), 1 1g blunt, and another gram to use how I wish each day for a week.

While it's switching one drug for another, whatever is in these synthetic blends(assuming it's a cannabinoid at all) is a full agonist. Marijuana, though, is a partial agonist and has been shown not to have any major physical withdrawals symptoms. Theoretically, there will be a large tolerance to marijuana, but I can definitely go without feeling "high" for a week, if it means I can go without feeling like I'm honestly dying for that week as well. And I know real marijuana definitely helps with the nausea because a buddy smoked me out on some super-high quality the other day when I wasn't feeling well(and he felt like sharing with someone). We actually went to Taco Bell, and I got to enjoy a beefy 5-layer even with Tobasco sauce! If I can use real weed until the withdrawals stop, I can easily stop real weed to let the tolerance die down a little afterwards.

Sorry for the giant posts. Typing and having something to think about really helps occupy my time and mind, and keeps me from just hitting another bowl of synthetics. While the length is unnecessary, I probably spent 30+ minutes typing this because I'm watching TV, too, and keep getting distracted from typing(which, again, is good, lol).
  #14  
Old 02-11-2012, 13:47
ianzombie ianzombie is nu online
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

iR Caru, you might want to keep in mind that many, many people report that when they have gone to cannabis, after prolonged cannabinoid use, they do not get anything from it.
Not a thing, even with massive doses.

I think that you might want to look into packing in any blend use, finding the cannabinoid it is that you use most of and then switching to that. Smoking the minimum amount to keep the withdrawals at bay, but no more, and leaving the length of time between hits as long as comfortably possible to help slowly reduce tolerance.
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Old 02-11-2012, 20:36
iR Caru iR Caru is offline
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianzombie View Post
iR Caru, you might want to keep in mind that many, many people report that when they have gone to cannabis, after prolonged cannabinoid use, they do not get anything from it.
Not a thing, even with massive doses.

I think that you might want to look into packing in any blend use, finding the cannabinoid it is that you use most of and then switching to that. Smoking the minimum amount to keep the withdrawals at bay, but no more, and leaving the length of time between hits as long as comfortably possible to help slowly reduce tolerance.

You're indeed correct that many people get nothing from marijuana use after using synthetic cannabinoids.

However, that amount of real cannabis also isn't necessarily consumed either. Even using between 3 and 6 grams of these blends per day, after smoking a blunt of high grade marijuana -while I was sober and approaching extremely uncomfortable, I felt very relieved for much longer than if it had been synthetics. I was able to eat and no longer had to consciously control myself from dry heaving and vomiting. I will say I wasn't necessarily high, however the relief it brought, and a much "cleaner" feeling after in general(I don't really know how to explain this sensation.. I felt able to move around and enjoy things, my nose/sinuses were clear, breathing easier it seemed).

I think a large portion of it has to do with the individual themselves. I'd imagine it depends on how much, and of what, you smoked. How often you dosed, and time from last dosing with synthetics cannabinoids. The main goal at this point isn't even to get high anymore. It's to make cessation of smoking synthetics more bearable and ultimately less dangerous(Because your body trying to vomit nothingness from your stomach and being unable to stomach food is indeed quite unhealthy). If any user is at this point and still expects, or requires an actual high and honestly wants to quit, they are delusional. This is simply not practical. Using a drug to come off another drug(especially when using a weaker form) will in general not leave you high, but relieved, which is usually enjoyable in its own right, to not be feeling absolutely horrid.
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Old 03-11-2012, 00:07
Yet Another Junkie Yet Another Junkie is offline
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

You have to remember that the salsa at the supermarket may claim to use organic ingredients, no preservatives, and no high fructose corn syrup. Without having the lab equipment to verify these claims are true, you have to put faith into the relationship between the seller and consumer.

This is why donkey encourages that you make your own salsa. For the most part you know what's going into your salsa.

The problems you might have with WD might be increased because of additives to the product that you are unaware of. One of donkey's close friends use to work at a smokers shop. They sold many types of incense. Donkey was informed that some of the blends contained MDPV as an additive in hopes to increase sells. Food for thought.

Donkey is not encouraging the use of these products, but understands that you're wanting to find an alternative to store bought salsa. When donkey used to smoke tobacco, he purchased it through a local farmer. The tobacco was claimed to be organic, but that doesn't exclude donkey from developing health problems from tobacco use. Donkey found it easier to quit the organic tobacco vs. store bought cigs though.
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Old 06-11-2012, 14:41
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

I have to say that making your own blends or switching to pure chems when already struggling with heavy addiction will not help. IMO this is baaaaaad advice.
It’s all well and good to say 'only use enough to reduce withdrawals' but if it was so easy to regulate use then there would be no problem in the first place. More importantly taking a drug is not a good strategy for giving it up. The only reason this helps reduce withdrawals is because you have satisfied your addiction and gone back to square one. Also by reducing use to a minimum you can re enforce your addiction by making the drug seem more precious and you can develop a mind-set of 'if it is this hard just to restrict use there is no way I can completely go without' so you stay in a miserable state of constantly withdrawing but getting nowhere. I appreciate that tapering can be necessary for heavy users but eventually you have to bite the bullet and stop.
Having said this I do think the idea of using cannabis to help has some potential. I managed to quit blends a week ago after several times trying. I wasn’t using as much as mentioned by other posters (around 10g per week) but it has not been easy. A couple of days after stopping I was given some decent weed and I found that whilst I hardly felt the effects it did help reduce withdrawals whilst I used it. Try not to rely on this for too long though.
I am not over my addiction yet but I know I will be soon. I could have easily ended up using much larger amounts and I can imagine stopping becomes exponentially more difficult with greater use so the previous posters have my sympathy.
When you are struggling try to remember it is because you smoked blends that you feel like this, it is not because you stopped. The only way to get rid of the withdrawals is to not smoke. If you do smoke you are causing them.
Try to think of the pain as your addiction dying, it is a good sign and won’t go on forever. When it is over you will be free.

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Old 06-11-2012, 22:40
Paranoia-Agent Paranoia-Agent is offline
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

No, a doctor told my friend that these blends have been suspected medical experts to cause brain tumors.
The doctor had asked him if he had been smoking the spice before he had gotten it.
Then the doctor proceeded to tell him that there have been reports (but not enough to prove anything, nor cause an up-rise yet) that they could cause brain tumors.

Yeah, doctors will try to scare teenagers out of doing drugs, but they aren't going to lie to a fully grown adult about drugs.
With that being said, who do you trust more; a doctor, or yourself?
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Old 06-11-2012, 23:17
MrMunchies MrMunchies is offline
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Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

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Originally Posted by Paranoia-Agent View Post
No, a doctor told my friend that these blends have been suspected medical experts to cause brain tumors.
The doctor had asked him if he had been smoking the spice before he had gotten it.
Then the doctor proceeded to tell him that there have been reports (but not enough to prove anything, nor cause an up-rise yet) that they could cause brain tumors.

Yeah, doctors will try to scare teenagers out of doing drugs, but they aren't going to lie to a fully grown adult about drugs.
With that being said, who do you trust more; a doctor, or yourself?

at the last part, I trust myself over a doctor any day.

MrMunchies added 0 Minutes and 53 Seconds later...

Ill do my research and everything and then consider taking the doctors word, considering most doctors love those vaccines and lots of pills, I do not trust those doctors.

Last edited by MrMunchies; 06-11-2012 at 23:17. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #20  
Old 22-11-2012, 14:45
CLICKHEREx CLICKHEREx is offline
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Join Date: 27-09-2012
Male from Australia
Posts: 70
CLICKHEREx needs to UTFSE some more before posting.
Re: Stomach problems, body cramps, and other problems connected to herbal incense use

Side Effects Associated with Synthetic Cannabis Use
Side effects may vary but tend to include any of the following symptoms:
Aggressiveness
Paranoia
Anxiety
Agitation
Nausea
Vomiting
Seizures
Syncope
Acute renal failure
High blood pressure
Heavy sweating
Heart palpitations
Irritability
Muscle rigidity
Convulsions

benchmarkcenter ~~~

"My experiences have been positive and negative.
Positives: Legality, availability, keeps me out of trouble, keeps me occupied, Helped me quit smoking cigarettes, boosts my creativity, boosts sex drive.
Negatives: Chest pains, Paranoia, Withdrawls, cough
Lets put it this way. I work in the Medical field, I know of how many patients have been seen (at least in the ER) for Synthetics in my area. We have had around 10-15 people in with chest pains and panic attacks and claiming they were dieing, heart beating rapidly etc. This is an average sized city. We have also had people taken to the psyche ward to keep them in hospital for rehabs/ Behavior health issues.
But, let me tell you, If I sit outside the smoke shop in town. Hundreds and hundreds of people flock in there every day. It has to be the most popular store in town! I have to believe of these few people having problems, are most likely the ones overdoing it! I can tell you with some of these SYnthetics, if I hadnt stopped when I know I should of, God only knows what would of happened. You have to know your limits!" from drugs-forum ~~~

Personally, I've been coughing up black gunk, which has worried me enough to switch from smoking to eating it in magic muffins or brownies.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Good/fairly accurate list of symptoms/pros/cons. Also nice personal experience to show *some* relevance, for whatever it is worth to others.

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