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  #1  
Old 09-10-2012, 01:37
MayCauseAddiction MayCauseAddiction is offline
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"Bizzaro" blend

Has anyone here tried this yet? It's like a bowl of salvia with a crack rock on top. Cpuple hits and you're tripping dick. But of course, only for about 15 minutes, them you're stone cold sober and your like "more!" Interesting how these things nowadays appear to be geared towards shorter more intense highs. I duppose it's good business, stronger high with a short half-life will lead you to re-dose, to buy more, etc.

MayCauseAddiction added 2 Minutes and 13 Seconds later...

Also if anyone has an idea as to the chemical in question, that would be interesting...AM-221(?), UR-144 maybe

Last edited by MayCauseAddiction; 09-10-2012 at 01:37. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #2  
Old 09-10-2012, 02:09
iR Caru iR Caru is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayCauseAddiction View Post
Has anyone here tried this yet? It's like a bowl of salvia with a crack rock on top. Cpuple hits and you're tripping dick. But of course, only for about 15 minutes, them you're stone cold sober and your like "more!" Interesting how these things nowadays appear to be geared towards shorter more intense highs. I duppose it's good business, stronger high with a short half-life will lead you to re-dose, to buy more, etc.

MayCauseAddiction added 2 Minutes and 13 Seconds later...

Also if anyone has an idea as to the chemical in question, that would be interesting...AM-221(?), UR-144 maybe

My recent dive into cannabinoids left me buying this, as well as another blend called Avalanche, Sonic Zero, and (very recently released) Orgazmo. They're marketed by the same company, usually Zencense, but there's next to no info about them. From experience, they're all about the same potency, just priced differently because of aroma/quality of material used.

Around here, the Sonic Zero is the most expensive, and contained almost no wood chips or twigs, and was almost all fairly decent plant substrate.

Do note that blends are often marketed by the same people, however aren't always produced by the same people. 'copy cat' bends or imitation brands are common.

Please be careful with this blend. In my experience, it has developed really miserable withdrawals at times.

I too will agree with there being something odd about these blends, though, in my experience. From older blends, these are much more hallucinogenic. Very strong, even for an experienced synthetic cannabinoid user.

It lasted about 20-30 minutes, had a very strong ability to cause visual perception change(a few people have described it as "cartoon-like"(one compared it to Archer, and another to Family Guy) and "like a video game), very small threshold between a good and bad experience, as well as skewed auditory perceptions. That lasted for about 15-20 minutes, with another 15 or so afterwards of a decently relaxed "stoned" feeling that sort of slowly lets off shortly after.


Let me ask you something, though.
When you take the first hit while sober, does this blend cause extreme nausea/stomach cramping for ~30 seconds?
From everyone I've asked about this specific blend(and among the other products the company sells - even from a few different areas), they all agree with me that it does, which I find very odd as other blends(from other distributors) tend not to produce this effect.
  #3  
Old 09-10-2012, 02:19
MayCauseAddiction MayCauseAddiction is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

Quote:
Originally Posted by iR Caru View Post
It lasted about 20-30 minutes, had a very strong ability to cause visual perception change(a few people have described it as "cartoon-like"(one compared it to Archer, and another to Family Guy) and "like a video game), very small threshold between a good and bad experience, as well as skewed auditory perceptions. That lasted for about 15-20 minutes, with another 15 or so afterwards of a decently relaxed "stoned" feeling that sort of slowly lets off shortly after.

Let me ask you something, though.
When you take the first hit while sober, does this blend cause extreme nausea/stomach cramping for ~30 seconds?
From everyone I've asked about this specific blend(and among the other products the company sells - even from a few different areas), they all agree with me that it does, which I find very odd as other blends(from other distributors) tend not to produce this effect.
How much of it do you smoke on average?
In regards to visuals. SWIMs strongest visuals came from literally just two hits (probably hit a hotspot) while on some shitty acid...most likely about 70-100 ug in subjective estimation. Everything was pastel colored, he was straight up seeing things that weren't there (for example, a third eye in the middle of the head of the people on TV---ha ha third eye...), stuff was warping, twisting, melting and he got that weird "folding in on itself" salvia experience (mixed with the 'click click' dxm visuals), everything seemed to be folding in on itself and everything had a triangular sort of view to it...if that makes sense. It was absolutely nuts, no other way to put it.

As to the stomachache....I personally haven't noticed it but my friend who was smoking it kept claiming of stomach pains all night (he was chiefing it all night as well), so that makes sense now. Eerie, huh?
  #4  
Old 09-10-2012, 06:48
iR Caru iR Caru is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayCauseAddiction View Post
How much of it do you smoke on average?
In regards to visuals. SWIMs strongest visuals came from literally just two hits (probably hit a hotspot) while on some shitty acid...most likely about 70-100 ug in subjective estimation. Everything was pastel colored, he was straight up seeing things that weren't there (for example, a third eye in the middle of the head of the people on TV---ha ha third eye...), stuff was warping, twisting, melting and he got that weird "folding in on itself" salvia experience (mixed with the 'click click' dxm visuals), everything seemed to be folding in on itself and everything had a triangular sort of view to it...if that makes sense. It was absolutely nuts, no other way to put it.

As to the stomachache....I personally haven't noticed it but my friend who was smoking it kept claiming of stomach pains all night (he was chiefing it all night as well), so that makes sense now. Eerie, huh?

I had probably been smoking about a 3.5g packet per night. Quitting the stuff came surprisingly easy, but I had been having horribly miserable withdrawals before I had stopped it all together.

In regards to the stomach problems, it was never a problem for more than 30 seconds. This effect would only occur during the first hit WHILE SOBER. No matter how many bowls or joints are smoked after the first hit, the stomach problem never happens after the first hit. The severity of the stomach cramp at the beginning normally had a strong correlation to how hard it was about to hit. Sometimes it can be really sickening and I may actually spit up bile if I hadn't eaten all day(and subsequently had an empty, unsettled stomach).

Unfortunately, Salvia's been illegal in my state for quite some time, so I've never had the pleasure of experiencing it and confirming such comparison.
  #5  
Old 09-10-2012, 18:27
MayCauseAddiction MayCauseAddiction is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

iR, you seem pretty knowledegable as to synthetic cannabinoids....are there any others which are similar to "Bizzaro" which might lend a clue as to the general chemical composition of the blend?
Re: stomach...I'm going to have to pay attention next time I hit it.
Shame, salvia's absolutely nuts.
  #6  
Old 09-10-2012, 22:47
iR Caru iR Caru is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

Quote:
Originally Posted by MayCauseAddiction View Post
iR, you seem pretty knowledegable as to synthetic cannabinoids....are there any others which are similar to "Bizzaro" which might lend a clue as to the general chemical composition of the blend?
Re: stomach...I'm going to have to pay attention next time I hit it.
Shame, salvia's absolutely nuts.

Unfortunately, no. And even if I were, many products get marketed by by a specific vendor, but in reality produced by an imitation.
  #7  
Old 11-10-2012, 20:23
Carminius Finger Carminius Finger is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

Swim has been smoking a 1.5g bag of bizarro every day for a couple months. Swim thinks swim might be withdrawing from this shit sometimes.

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  #8  
Old 12-10-2012, 04:04
P1-O2 P1-O2 is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

@MayCauseAddiction, you should be much more careful with the blend you are smoking. Visuals and distortions are not very common with cannabinoids from my experience. You can "trip balls" (paranoia, racing thoughts, and closed eye visuals), but even with the heaviest doses the most experienced is like... Looking at a corner and thinking it is flat, seeing shapes as different things. This comes from personal experience and from my associates.

I wish you good luck. Be careful and remember that a little extra self control early on will save you a lot of headache later!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carminius Finger View Post
Swim has been smoking a 1.5g bag of bizarro every day for a couple months. Swim thinks swim might be withdrawing from this shit sometimes.
Speaking from experience, I've never been able to smoke more than 1g/day and not feel it. There is typically a window between 1g and 2g per day where withdrawals start to set in. Pushing 3g-3.5g is just asking for a withdrawal, but it does not *always* happen. Everything depends on when and how you consume the cannabinoids.

For all blends, my general rule is ~500mg/day to avoid bothersome withdrawal.
Past that, there is not much advice you can rely on. Even when talking about specific blends, there is a chance you are smoking an imitation, so cross-blend discussion is just guessing.

In the best case scenario, you will be able to find a specific daily intake that allows you to enjoy the cannabinoids without feeling handcuffed or miserable. Good luck!
  #9  
Old 18-10-2012, 01:40
Earlocybin Earlocybin is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

Personally, Bizarro and Sonic Zero are my favorites of anything that's been available lately. However being that New York banned it, and now Vermont has banned it, it's not easily available anymore I really enjoyed the strawberry and blueberry, they have a much better taste than most other blends I've tried, and as mentioned a couple hits will get you where you want to be at. Hayze is the only one I know of with a better flavor but that's all gone too. I would get a 10 gram bizarro and it would last about a week to a few days
  #10  
Old 27-10-2012, 15:09
TheBedslaya TheBedslaya is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

bizarro is a quality blend, id honestly be interested to learn what chemicals are in the strawberry scent, because that one is like meth to SWIM.

TheBedslaya added 2 Minutes and 51 Seconds later...

Oh and P.S.: Not for beginners, thats for sure, bizarro is a potent blend, make sure people know that before they partake. it can be pretty intense. SWIM has had full on hallucinations of people and things that werent there at high doses. It was nuts lol.

Last edited by TheBedslaya; 27-10-2012 at 15:09. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #11  
Old 29-10-2012, 17:12
Quijibo Quijibo is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

I'm not so sure the Zenscense blends are a cannabanoid RC blend. Cannabanoids are illegal here in Florida and headshop owners are necesarily paranoid since cops do whatever they please here. I don't know for sure what RC it is in Bizzaro/Sonic/Avalanche but it has an effect similiar to some benzo's (i.e. Xanax). I have been smoking Zencense brand for about 4 months now and I have noticed if smoke heavy for a few days I get pretty bad witdrawls. I suggest rotating blends/brands with every purchase to help avoid addictive properties and tollerance build from some of these blends.
TheBedslaya is right about these being potent blends. They're strong but short lived and that can be a pretty crappy experience for first time users.
  #12  
Old 31-10-2012, 22:47
TheBedslaya TheBedslaya is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

First time users almost NEVER enjoy the bizarro blends, ive noticed that inexperienced and novice synthetic smokers get intensely paranoid or have panic attacks when they first try bizarro.

And yes, Quijibo, most definitely withdrawal symptoms from Bizarro. I've been smoking it for maybe 3 months now on the regular, but i have to go out of state for it, so usually only able to smoke a joint or 2 a day, but lately ive been getting 10gram bags for just myself, and i smoke atleast 1 bowl every hour (I take a one-hitter every 5-10 minutes to remain high through-out my intended relaxation time) ... anyway after my bag ran out i found myself searching my rug for tiny bits, scraping the empty bags, etc. etc. trying to get another hit, i found myself fiending pretty badly.

I've scraped the resin from my glass bowl, can i just say bizarro is a million times more intense as a tiny piece of black tarry resin? One resin hit is like 5 regular hits, lol. Incase anyone is curious to try that out, its worth the effort of scraping the bowl. I scrape my bowl after every gram i smoke and get about 3-4 hits of resin (probably a bad sign about the damage its doing to our lungs)

But again about the withdrawals, i found myself feeling anxious, and fluctuating temperatures
  #13  
Old 31-10-2012, 23:30
GeographyGeography GeographyGeography is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

I just have to bump this thread, as I have caught hype about Bizarro being 'the latest great shit in XXX state' more than twice since I started paying attention over a week ago.

Whatever is in Bizarro seems to me to be either a potent short acting cannabinoid that people are basically having mild overdose experiences with at first, or it is something else entirely. From the looks of people's subjective experiences with the drug, I'd say the intoxication looks more like a brief deliriant experience than anything else.
Thinking your friends are in your room with you? Smoking fake cigarettes and drinking/eating imaginary drinks/food? Talking to objects? Hallucinations? What the hell is in this stuff.

Last edited by GeographyGeography; 01-11-2012 at 23:01.
  #14  
Old 31-10-2012, 23:48
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeographyGeography View Post
Whatever is in Bizarro seems to me to be either a very potent short acting cannabinoid that people are basically having mild overdose experiences with, or it is something else entirely.
What you are reading, about people looking like family guy characters is nothing new to the synthetic cannabinoid scene. Atomic, another very popular brand in NY, gave such effects when the user hit a 'hot spot" in the bag. A hot spot is basically a concentrated area of the substrate/foliage.

The feeling/experience is incredibly scary the first time it happens to you, and even the second time. By the third time, you realize what has happen, and know it will pass. It still isn't fun and ultimately you realize this stuff is garbage and not healthy and you move on, looking forward to greener days.
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Old 01-11-2012, 00:14
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

Hooked, no I am not talking about that or any visuals, but about the experiences I have read in these forums and elsewhere where people have 'real' hallucinations on it. "Where you realize the cat you are talking to is actually the shirt you don't remember taking off"

Another person claimed that they watched an entire movie with a group of friends and realized that they were never there an hour later, running through the house yelling for them. Those aren't really visuals. Maybe extreme paranoia or something, but I think there are very different biochemical mechanisms at work during patterning or color intensifications and during being involved with non-existent people. Maybe I've just read too many deliriant type trip reports, but it seems to me that there is a certain switch getting thrown, almost like the one for dream disbelief suspension or falling into salvia. Its like how you kind of gradually realize you are doing/believing something that doesn't make sense. Perhaps these things are being exaggerated as per the hype, which you are right, wouldn't be unusual... It just seems like the people who smoke it their first time have some pretty intense experiences, far beyond what I would say is normal for even some of the stronger cannablends.

Last edited by GeographyGeography; 01-11-2012 at 22:58. Reason: clarifying
  #16  
Old 01-11-2012, 21:44
TheBedslaya TheBedslaya is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

bizarro definitely causes deliriant like effects, end of story

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Old 01-11-2012, 22:53
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

slaya would you elaborate on how you came to think this? This is the perfect place for it.

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  #18  
Old 02-11-2012, 15:15
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeographyGeography View Post
slaya would you elaborate on how you came to think this? This is the perfect place for it.
I agree with him. I'll try my best to elaborate my reasoning:

I'm not sure whether it says it on your bags of Bizzaro/sonic zero/Zencense products, but it lists which type of cannabinoids aren't in the blends. The list covers most types(including two I've actually never even heard of, but are classified as cannabinoids), except the adamantylated structures, like STS-135 and AB-001. As far as I'm aware, as well, there's not a whole lot of currently existing alternative structures aside from the ones listed on the packages and the adamantylated cannabinoids. Hopefully that helps narrow the scope of what we're looking at.

The reason I bring up these structures, is because of the adamantyl part. Many basic adamantane(most basic form of the hydrocarbon) derivatives have NMDA antagonistic and anticholinergic effects, among others and are widely used as a range of antiviral drugs. Because of the... 'exotic?' nature of adamantane, I wouldn't find it odd that metabolism takes place there, thus producing another drug in it's own right. Many of these drugs can stay in the body for quite some time, too.

Having used anticholinergics recreationally, myself, I can definitely say some of the effects of the high(in dark rooms at high doses I see 'lightning flashes,' the way I nod when I smoke a lot which doesn't happen when I first start smoking) and withdrawal(mainly the mental fog, loss of some muscle rigidity) feel like some of my experiences with anticholinergics. The nod I sometimes get 10 minutes after I've smoked a fair amount is extremely reminiscent of a high dose of Diphenhydramine(Benadryl). Many people have also said that smoking the newer blends give them diarrhea, which anticholinergics can definitely cause. However, contradictory to that, cannabinoids generally slow gut motility, so one could assume this would mean the opposite of diarrhea. Endocannabinoids are used to tell your brain you're hungry, stimulating appetite and slowing gut function until nutrients trigger another response in the body that stimulates metabolism and shuts down appetite(to tell you to stop eating, or that you no longer require sustenance). So a marked increase in gut motility during the duration of the 'high' is somewhat unexpected, and as such, raises my eyebrows as to what may cause this.

I'm not a doctor, chemist, pharmacologist, ect. These causes are purely speculative, and relative to my own personal past experiences. However, many people smoking these Zencense products tend to describe the effects quite similarly, so there is a level of regularity in the experiences. I can only speculate on the relation of anticholinergic effects, as I have a great deal of experience with them(it seems most people are unable to enjoy anticholinergics, and so experience in use is somewhat few and far between). If anyone could speculate on NMDA effects in relation, please, as I have limited experience with NMDA antagonists. NMDA antagonists are drugs like Ketamine, DXM, and PCP. Better speculation comes in comparison to purely NMDA-antagonistic drugs, as many have multiple effects, such as Ketamine binding to opioid receptors, and PCP binding to dopamine.



TL;DR
I think Bizzaro contains adamantylated cannabinoids, which, when metabolized, gives off semi-simple adamantane derivatives that effect the glutamate(NMDA) and/or cholinergic systems. Many adamantane derivatives have long half lives(usually a few days), and as such could be a major source of the brain fog and other certain 'withdrawal' effects shortly after discontinuing use.

While perhaps not an NMDA antagonist or anticholinergic, most adamantane derivatives usually have some sort of psychoactive effect. I speculate this strongly influences the high, and after effects that seem prominent in the gastric area.
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Old 03-11-2012, 00:53
TheBedslaya TheBedslaya is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeographyGeography View Post
slaya would you elaborate on how you came to think this? This is the perfect place for it.

Just personal experiences using the bizarro blend. I've felt almost dreamlike experiences at high doses of the stuff. When mixed with other psychoactives (like lsa, lsd, mdma or ketamine) the visuals can become pretty intense, although normally you can differentiate between real and unreal. Vague staticy visuals always show up even sometimes within the first hit or two, spotty staticy colorful dots that create patterns over my entire vision, and closed eyed become even more intricate.

There has been a few points when after using the product for long periods of time at once that I've entered into almost schizophrenia-like hallucinations, running through the house yelling for people who werent ever actually there, feeling and touching and hearing things that dont exist--but while simultaniously seeing and understanding my real surroundings.

10grams morning glory seeds, and smoking salvia and lime-scented bizarro mixed bowls once entered me into a out-of-body experience where i became god and could control all my surroundings with the wave of my hand, speed up time, slow it down, rewind, i threw my tv out my window and it exploded into a black hole, all without leaving my bed, i felt as if my body was flying across the room at high speeds and i saw video game characters burst into life all over the walls; shadows danced everywhere, life became static television, i closed my eyes and watched insanely intricate artwork shoot past my eyes at incredible speeds, spinning and spiraling into patterns--and whats interesting is when on this mix, the visuals would die down with the bizarro high, but when another bowl of bizarro was smoked the intense visuals and godlike feeling returned, but never with the same original intensity of course.

All i know is everytime i smoke a bowl i get more and more curious what im injesting and what it might be doing to me. But, health is not truly a concern with life at this point, im just curious what it does to my brain.



i

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Old 05-11-2012, 12:33
TheBedslaya TheBedslaya is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

Update: (Heh...) Just inhaled 2 large resin tokes, held in for 10 seconds each. I see shiny lights my face feels heavy and so do my extremeties, i have the urge to clench my jaw, static-like dots are covering everything but not obscuring view
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Old 05-11-2012, 13:45
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

Quote:
Hooked, no I am not talking about that or any visuals, but about the experiences I have read in these forums and elsewhere where people have 'real' hallucinations on it. "Where you realize the cat you are talking to is actually the shirt you don't remember taking off"
I shit you not, she is right!

I swear.

I've had basically every 5-meo, LSD, psilocybin, lots of blends, and dph and datura in my lifetime

The last time I smoked was much closer to datura then all of the rest.

It was a shock.. this may sound retarded, and if you look back at my history of reports here I am not one to exaggerate effects. After 3 hits of this blend a goddamn orange peel grew over the TV screen.. this was not psychedelic.. it was there and blocking the TV screen.. after a while I threw up.. and looked up and saw an unknown girl in the bathroom that just vanished. Had crazy spins , but not it a way where the world goes around you.. more of a shaking spin.

Nasty shit man
The spins made it chaotic as hell.. its the only blend I've ever puked on too
Hell I've never thrown up a tryptamine aside from eating peyote

I've overdosed on AM-2201.. what ever was in that blend is not in the same class of drug.. if it is its causing delirium.

Onset was just as she described.. I didn't feel anything until I noticed the orange peel thing then it got chaotic as shit
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Last edited by Basoodler; 05-11-2012 at 14:09.
  #22  
Old 06-11-2012, 06:25
TheBedslaya TheBedslaya is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

idk, for me the onset is incredibly noticable, a sudden heavyness of the eyelids and general change of physical sensations almost immediately after inhalation.

The orange peel hallucination you describe--(i read it from a different thread as well so i know more details) does not seem similar to my own experiences, regardless of my own experiences being pretty damn intense. Its never made me puke or even made me feel like puking--altho i will admit to my stomach sometimes grumbling and gurgling after a hit or two, but im not sure if thats connected to the blend or me just being a fat kid whos hungry lol.

Regardless , bizarro remains the only k2 i swear by as intense and euphoric and honestly i will admit to a moderate addiction and moderate withdrawal after not smoking for over a few hours. If i smoke a gram in like 2 hours, i will be fiending pretty badly for the rest of the day. but it tends to go away afterwards unless somebody brings the stuff up, then ill have some pretty strong urges but nothing too bad

TheBedslaya added 5 Minutes and 7 Seconds later...

sorry for double posting but this forum doesnt have an edit button for some reason =\ ....

the visuals are definitely deliriant like-----at HIGH HIGH HIGH DOSAGES----like smoking 2-3 grams within an hour. Otherwise its not as visual outside of weird staticy patterns spiraling across my vision, but as said before it doesnt really block my sight of anything real, its more like a background image.

Altho on the side of it being a deliriant, my friend dropped 2 hits of liquid acid and then we smoked maybe 5 grams of strawberry bizarro in joints, and he became intensely sure that our other friend had jus tpoisoned him when they shook hands with poison ivy and was convinced to th epoint where he almost fought the other kid, and then later fell back onto my table and emptied out his entire can of beer onto my kitchen floor without realizing he was doing it, we had to tell him about it 15 minutes later when the bizarro high died down.

Last edited by TheBedslaya; 06-11-2012 at 06:25. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #23  
Old 06-11-2012, 21:46
GeographyGeography GeographyGeography is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

Unfortunately, as iR Caru mentioned before, we have no idea or way to tell if the discrepancy between people's experience is due to a single supplier using two different products, or even one supplier changing the chemical in the one product, or there are copy cat products, and so on...

However, reading about this blend at first there was a very distinctive deliriant flair to most of the experiences I read. Who know's what it is now because there seems to be a lot of hype about it. Several states have expressly named this blend in their legal language.

Although honestly this is pretty much how it is with any illegal drug- minus the artwork..
  #24  
Old 07-11-2012, 04:53
opana_man420 opana_man420 is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

swim was living in San Francisco and was highly addicted to spice swim would buy multible bags a day and was allways getting free samples from swims headshop the resin is way more intense and adds to the feind i too have carpet crawled for bizzaro

opana_man420 added 5 Minutes and 46 Seconds later...

the bizzaro from zensence was allways the best strawberry and blueberry were bomb but cherry allways seemed to give first timers a bad trip many lol's at there expense

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Last edited by opana_man420; 07-11-2012 at 04:53. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #25  
Old 07-11-2012, 09:31
iR Caru iR Caru is offline
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Re: "Bizzaro" blend

Quote:
Originally Posted by opana_man420 View Post

the bizzaro from zensence was allways the best strawberry and blueberry were bomb but cherry allways seemed to give first timers a bad trip many lol's at there expense

The strawberry reminded me of the smell/taste of strawberry milk. It was enjoyable, but I felt it got old quick though.

The cherry tastes fairly decent, but it seems more harsh - which can add to the discomfort of taking a first hit(which some people can get really sick feeling on top of), and start having a bad experience.

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