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Beta-Ketones Mephedrone, Methylone, Butylone, Methedrone, Ethcathinone, 3-fluoroMethCathinone (3FMC), Methylenedioxypyrovalerone (MDPV)

 
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  #1  
Old 10-09-2012, 22:09
GentlemanTom GentlemanTom is offline
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RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

Mr.X (man i sometimes meet at bars) was making a chart comparing some beta-ketones (substituted cathinones) and several other novelty chemicals that to his knowledge are legal here and there. Mostly, he was doing it for research purposes, to help him decide what chemical he could try next, and comparing which of them had effects he could need at the certain moment.

Chart's based mostly on experience of others and information he collected from wikipedia, erowid, this forum and sometimes on his possible own experience. It's like a short summary of effects, highlighting the most noted parts. As most of these are stimulants with very common side effects, he decided to outline only the special ones. So keep in mind that most of them causes some level racing heart, tachycardia, nystagmus, vasoconstriction, decreased appetite, insomnia, jaw tension.

Well, for the time being i've put all the information that Mr.X had gathered. Any comments, additional information or suggestions are welcome - hoped to get some by the time, but.. Anw, here's the table:

NAMECLASSCOLOR, FORM, TASTE, IN BURNMAIN AFFECTED NEUROTRANSMITTERSDOSE, DURATIONGOODDISTINCTIVE BADAFTER EFFECTSHARMPRICE/DOSE RATIO
4-MEC, 2-(Ethylamino)-1-(4-methylphenyl)propan-1-oneSubstituted Cathinone, phenethylamine, Amphetamine, Stimulant, EntactogenWhite small even crystal shards, no clumps.?50-250 mg. I: 100 mg main effects lasts 45-60 minutes. Wakefulness persists 1-1,5 h more. Decent euphoria (high doses), Increased sociability, Some energy, Spaced out and relaxed feeling (higher doses), relatively easy body loadUncontrollable wish to redose, Clogs nose, Forces to toilet, Anxiety on coming up, Relatively painful on insufflationLittle to none?Average
Methylone, 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylcathinoneSubstituted Cathinone, Phenethylamine, Entactogen, StimulantBrown sugarish crystal cubes, no clumps. Bad taste, soft burn.RI&R: Serotonin (3x smaller affinity than MDMA), Dopamine, Norepinephrine (similar to MDMA)100-350 mg. I: 250 mg main effects lasts for 60-90 minutes. Wakefulness persists 1-1,5 h moreStrong euphoria, increased sociability, tenderness towards others, increased awareness of senses, increased empathy, mood lift Dripping nose, moderate wish to redose, increased sweating, change in perception of time, short euphoria is followed by hours of simple stimulation Unpleasant emotional crashNeurotoxic at larger quantitiesLess than average
Pentedrone, 2-(methylamino)-1-phenylpentan-1-oneSubstituted Cathinone, StimulantPerfectly white fluffy powder, sticks to each other, hard to make a line. ?10-150 mg (tends towards smaller ones) I: 50mg lasts for 60-90 minutes Pleasurable rush, clean potent stimulation, concentration, boring tasks become interesting, Increased mood, Strongly increased sociabilitySide effects quickly add up with redosing, moderate wish to redose, heavy body load on larger amountsSleep deprivation, racing heart, chest pains, strong fatigue, concentration is difficult?Good
Ethylphenidate, ethyl 2-phenyl-2-piperidin-2-ylacetateStimulantPure white transparent crystals, Very strong burnRI: Norepinephrine (weak), dopamineI: 25-100mg. average dose lasts 1 hour, followed with 2-3 hours of stimulation.Soft euphoria, increased sociability, light similarity to cokeRestlessness, medium urge to redose, side effects add up quickly redosing, unpleasant body load, short memory span moderate to low ceiling effect, Hard to concentrate, Very strong burnStrong tiredness after the effects fades away, long lasting sleep deprivation, quite fast achievable stimulant psychosis?Good
2-DPMP Desoxypipradrol, (RS)-2-benzhydrylpiperidineStimulant?RI: norepinephrine, dopamine (compared to coke on rats: 3x times re-uptake half life, 2,3x peak dopamine levels)1-5 mg, max 20 mg. I: 12 mg lasts more than 24 hors.No appetite supression, ultra strong long lasting stimulation, clear head, increased sexual desire, Erection problems, little to no euphoria, small recreational use, ultra long half-life - up to 48 hours, redosing could lead to fear and panic attacks, serious psychosis and delirious stateSleep deprivation, easy to overdose, easy to reach psychosisDoses needed to reach LD50 in rabbits and mice were from 1,5 to 7 times smaller than Amphetamine's, while in rats - from 1.1 to 6 times bigger. Orally mice 50mg/kg, rat 80mg/kg. Greatest
AMT, α-MethyltryptamineTryptamine, Stimulant, Psychedelic, Entactogen?R: Serotonin, Dopamine, Norepinephrine A: SerotoninO: 15-60 mg works for 7-13 hours I: 3-6 hoursMood lift, Euphoria, Stimulation, Increased sociability, some visualsUnpleasant body load, nausea, vomiting, duration can be tiresomeLess than MDMANeurotoxic at large doses (no direct research, yet its analogue is such). LD50 is orally mice 38mg/kg, rat 22mg/kg.Great
MPA Methiopropamine, 1-(thiophen-2-yl)-2-methylaminopropaneStimulantWhite, a bit off-white flour, clumpy, has an impression to be a bit wetR: (speculated) Dopamine (weak), Norepinephrine 10-100 mg, I: 20-50 mg main effects up to 1 h, comedown 1-3 h O: 35+15 bump acts for 5h + 4h increased alertness Clean stimulation, energy, sexual arousal, motivation to do tasks, possible ritalin replacement, study help, increased concentration, soft comedown Little to none euphoria, unpleasant tension in the body on insufflation and higher doses, sweating, little recreational value ??Great
MDAI, 6,7-dihydro-5H-cyclopenta[f][1,3]benzodioxol-6-aminePhenethylamine, EntactogenBrown crystalline powderR: Serotonin100-200 mg O: 1,5-3h Soft euphoria, peaced out feeling, some empathy and music appreciation, sexual arousal, mood lift No stimulant action, possible sleepiness, strong nose burnLittle to noneNon-neurotoxicLess than average

R – Releaser, A – Agonist, RI – reuptake inhibitor, I – Insufflation, O – oral.

Table's posted under beta-ketones because they make up majority of it at the moment and I couldn't find a better place for it.
Table presents only general information-summary of facts and experiences, its purpose - to quickly provide basic information and help person to choose a specific chemical on which to continue further research.
Empty cells means lack of data. If it's empty cell near "harm" it doesn't mean drug is harmless.

Source List:
This forum
Another forum
Erowid
PubMED.govHomeoffice.gov.uk
  • "ACMD report on desoxypipradrol"
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc

Post Quality Evaluations:
Great post, sums it up quite nicely
Excellent! Nice work there DorianBlack.
Great chart, definitely very useful
Great compiled information, very neat

Last edited by GentlemanTom; 31-10-2012 at 08:58. Reason: additional info
  #2  
Old 12-09-2012, 17:16
GentlemanTom GentlemanTom is offline
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

I hope i can the post update as a comment? (cause now it has double the amount of information it had at start)

The table's filled with all the information Mr.X could give me, so i hope it can be useful (and updated with additional info or chemicals)(if anyone has any specific info to share)
  #3  
Old 20-09-2012, 09:15
Boltzmann Boltzmann is offline
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

Very informative and well-made. Thanks!
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Old 22-09-2012, 00:08
MtCt MtCt is offline
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

Yeah, thanks a lot!)

A nice addition would be MDPV, if someone has information on this... Mephedrone also...
  #5  
Old 05-10-2012, 19:45
toxigal toxigal is offline
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

1) seretonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, etc. are not hormones, they are neurotransmitters
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Old 05-10-2012, 20:10
GentlemanTom GentlemanTom is offline
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

thanks for good words. MtCt, Mr.X had told me he won't add mephedrone because it's illegal, and he'll think about mdpv when he'll have time.

toxigal, thanks for pointing out the mistake - fixed it.

if anyone else see some mistakes or have info to add up, don't be shy

Last edited by GentlemanTom; 09-10-2012 at 13:50. Reason: adding more text
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:11
toxigal toxigal is offline
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

any chance you can add more specific references? it would be great to see what is in the peer reviewed literature (and yes, i am trying to get someone else to do my job for me).
  #8  
Old 10-10-2012, 05:03
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

very interesting.
It has us wondering if MDAI is what is currently going around here as 'molly'. Now we must research how MDAI reacts for reagents....
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:59
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaleidoscopeEyes View Post
very interesting.
It has us wondering if MDAI is what is currently going around here as 'molly'. Now we must research how MDAI reacts for reagents....
Its doubtful that MDAI is being sold as molly at the moment... because it has recently become hard to come by.. there had been a lot of 4-MEC, bk-mdma, and even 4-FA sold as molly around the US though
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Old 15-10-2012, 21:14
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

just wanted to add that the pentedrone my cat got comes in nice big crystals and feels similar to smoking mephedrone
  #11  
Old 19-10-2012, 11:47
GentlemanTom GentlemanTom is offline
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

Toxigal, actually, i didn't save the links and papers, just wrote down the info and only in the end thought about listing sources, so sorry, but have little to share at the moment.

Cibulla, was that from a trusted vendor? are you sure it was pentedrone? What's the color of the crystals? Are they opaque or transparent?
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Old 20-10-2012, 13:45
Boltzmann Boltzmann is offline
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by DorianBlack View Post
Toxigal, actually, i didn't save the links and papers, just wrote down the info and only in the end thought about listing sources, so sorry, but have little to share at the moment.

Cibulla, was that from a trusted vendor? are you sure it was pentedrone? What's the color of the crystals? Are they opaque or transparent?
AFOAF will have some data for you on that one (within a week). Two sets of eyes see clearer than one. And AFOAF is confident in this vendor. Pictures will come. I'll have photographs of the material and also some pictures of reagent tests. (Reagent tests will be another month due to supply.)
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Old 24-10-2012, 23:22
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

I am brand new at this site and am looking for information on 3,4 DMMC for SWIM. They have had it from several different RC suppliers and are having different results from the most recent shipment.

My first question is, would 3,4 DMMC belong on this chart? how would it compare with the other chemicals listed?

The latest shipment produced a euphoric, tactile, experience, similar to MDMA for the SWIM. However, this time, they were unable to sleep for 24 hours after a similar dose that with another shipment only lasted 3-4 hours. A friend of SWIM has had an adverse reaction 3 times now as well, including rash, welts and painful, swollen eyes (they take ritalin for narcolepsy). Although SWIM could not sleep they experienced no jaw clenching AT ALL and no real speedy effects. They are perplexed....

the SWIM is really looking for an alternative to MDMA that produces similar experiences including heightened sexual stimulation (the 3,4 DMMC, while tactile, effects function pretty severely)

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggested RC's?

Thankful for any information and guidance.
  #14  
Old 29-10-2012, 12:41
GentlemanTom GentlemanTom is offline
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

Well, Mr. X had never tried 3,4 DMMC so it's hard for him to comment.

It could belong to the chart, as the chart is not based on specific structure or properties of the chemicals - it was made by Mr. x, when he wanted to sum up the effects and properties of chemicals available to him at that time. Then later, he shared it with me.

you should research more on 3,4 dmmc in this forum - use the search engine, cause it must bring you at least several descriptions, comparisons and experience reports. Or you can sum up your experiences and compare them to the properties of chemicals listed in the table above.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:15
Boltzmann Boltzmann is offline
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

Ludwig Boltzmann tried bioassaying these, even though a physicist.

These included Dimethocaine, ethylphenidate, 2-dpmp, 4-MEC, and Pentedrone.

Dimethocaine was enjoyable but required large doses and was not useful for getting things done

Ethylphenidate seemed very subtle. I didn't really feel much from it.

2-DPMP gave me the biggest rush I've ever had when I took it the fiirst time, and it was never again even close. It's very dangerous in my opinion because it lasts so long *and* it's so potent. So your compulsion to get another rush 30 minutes later? You'll be regretting it for 12 hours.

If administered by doctors and planned, it could be useful.

MPA mostly provided jitteriness, suspecting adrenergic activity to be primary.

Favorite so far is pentedrone. Motivated, euphoric, lasting a few hours of euphoria and then 3 -4 more of being generally stimulated. Moreish, I'd say, but it was quite functional and wasn't very jittery.
Also, I noticed that it had a ceiling effect.

To balance out the dopamine/serotonin (assumed) preferential activity for the Pentedrone, small amounts of MPA were added. This made tasks seem more urgent, not just more doable.

My two cents as of yet.

Post Quality Evaluations:
interesting comparison of the testing results.
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Old 07-11-2012, 13:59
GentlemanTom GentlemanTom is offline
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

I've posted an summary on ethylphenidate at its "drug info" topic - Boltzmann should check it, as it could be interesting to compare the results of the tests. Summary claims ethylphenidate is quite away from "subtle" and barely felt.

It's strange how Pentedrone lasted so long for the Ludwig, what was the dose and ROA? As far as i know, both Pentedrone and especially MPA have no or very little activity affecting serotonin. Is it Ludwig's experience and thoughts, or has he found proof or some trustworthy source claiming, that one of these have impact on serotonin?



Also, another topic, but the strange thing, i've stumbled upon 4-mec in wikipedia and found some very strange info:

"4-MEC is not linked to any deaths or adverse medical phenomenon and has been shown by acute oral toxicity tests in rats to have an LD50 of 300 mg to 2000 mg per kg of body weight (making it equivalently harmful to table vinegar or paracetamol)"

I'm not adding it to table, because something seems fishy - i've spent 20 minutes and didn't found any original source or study to back such a claim, and the sentence itself sounds too much like an ad (especially comparison to table vinegar). Anyone has any comments or a link to study maybe?

Last edited by GentlemanTom; 07-11-2012 at 14:56. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #17  
Old 10-11-2012, 02:11
Boltzmann Boltzmann is offline
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by DorianBlack View Post
I've posted an summary on ethylphenidate at its "drug info" topic - Boltzmann should check it, as it could be interesting to compare the results of the tests. Summary claims ethylphenidate is quite away from "subtle" and barely felt.

I have read the Drug Info pages for all of these that are available on relatively large forums. Ludwig was surprised by the lack of expected activity. Perhaps it was the amount that was never high enough or some temporary elevated tolerance due to desoxypipadrol.

It's strange how Pentedrone lasted so long for the Ludwig, what was the dose and ROA? As far as i know, both Pentedrone and especially MPA have no or very little activity affecting serotonin. Is it Ludwig's experience and thoughts, or has he found proof or some trustworthy source claiming, that one of these have impact on serotonin?

[i]Ludwig claimed that he felt a "rush" for a few minutes insufflated, but when taken orally, it was a slowly increasing feeling of "whoaaahhhhh" (He said to use precisely 3 a's, representing safety, not AA which represents something else that he admires, but feels his actions whould he affiliated with.

Also, another topic, but the strange thing, i've stumbled upon 4-mec in wikipedia and found some very strange info:

"4-MEC is not linked to any deaths or adverse medical phenomenon and has been shown by acute oral toxicity tests in rats to have an LD50 of 300 mg to 2000 mg per kg of body weight (making it equivalently harmful to table vinegar or paracetamol)"

I'm not adding it to table, because something seems fishy - i've spent 20 minutes and didn't found any original source or study to back such a claim, and the sentence itself sounds too much like an ad (especially comparison to table vinegar). Anyone has any comments or a link to study maybe?
A lot of these chemicals have a little quip on their wiki page: "No reported deaths". Doesn't mean that it's not dangerous.

With 4-MEC, i have a hard time understanding those numbers. But before you do human-mouse equivalents as just the same number (IE, the person who said that was doing original research... and did it wrong. The ratio (if you were to approximate it, is (varying by drug class) but around 20.
PMID: 17942826
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Old 11-11-2012, 16:12
Boltzmann Boltzmann is offline
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltzmann View Post
Ludwig Boltzmann tried bioassaying these, even though a physicist.

These included Dimethocaine, ethylphenidate, 2-dpmp, 4-MEC, and Pentedrone.

Dimethocaine was enjoyable but required large doses and was not useful for getting things done

Ethylphenidate seemed very subtle. I didn't really feel much from it.

2-DPMP gave me the biggest rush I've ever had when I took it the fiirst time, and it was never again even close. It's very dangerous in my opinion because it lasts so long *and* it's so potent. So your compulsion to get another rush 30 minutes later? You'll be regretting it for 12 hours.

If administered by doctors and planned, it could be useful.

MPA mostly provided jitteriness, suspecting adrenergic activity to be primary.

Favorite so far is pentedrone. Motivated, euphoric, lasting a few hours of euphoria and then 3 -4 more of being generally stimulated. Moreish, I'd say, but it was quite functional and wasn't very jittery.
Also, I noticed that it had a ceiling effect.

To balance out the dopamine/serotonin (assumed) preferential activity for the Pentedrone, small amounts of MPA were added. This made tasks seem more urgent, not just more doable.

My two cents as of yet.
After a period of time, I have changed my views on pentedrone. I do not recommend it. For details, see http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=126006. (Pentedrone info thread.)

Last edited by Boltzmann; 11-11-2012 at 16:24.
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:37
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What is ICE?

Something called "ICE" and touted as an "iPhone scratch cleaner" must surely be a RC. I am on a quest to find out what it is and, thru numerous trial and error (at an increasing expense) have not been able to find the exact substance. Can someone help???
  #20  
Old 03-12-2012, 08:10
GentlemanTom GentlemanTom is offline
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

You could buy some reagent test kits, these usually don't give accurate info on research chemicals, but people here put their results online so you'd have some resources to compare your results to.

But the only accurate way to find out for sure is to send a sample to the lab.
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Old 03-12-2012, 23:46
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

Alas, I am without an original specimen and the source has seem to have disappeared. I fear I must continue to wander in the dark for the characteristics "speedy, euphoric, desire to re-dose, increased libido but diminished physical performance, burning the preferred route of administration...". I am new here... should this be posted in an alternate forum?

Thank you for any guidance...
  #22  
Old 04-12-2012, 09:12
GentlemanTom GentlemanTom is offline
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GentlemanTom probably knows what they are talking about.GentlemanTom probably knows what they are talking about.GentlemanTom probably knows what they are talking about.GentlemanTom probably knows what they are talking about.GentlemanTom probably knows what they are talking about.
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

Well, it shouldn't be posted anywhere, because asking for identification is against the rules. No one could tell you which specific substance it is, as it would only be a guess based on vague description that could be matched by dozens of substances. And the wrong guess could lead to dangerous consequences.
  #23  
Old 21-03-2014, 10:07
Legalize Legalize is offline
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Re: RCs comparison chart: 4-MEC, bk-MDMA, pentedrone, MPA, AMT, Ehylphenidate, DPMP

How can you possibly compare ethylphenidate to cocaine?.. Ethylphenidate felt pretty weak to me nothing like coke and actually much less potent than plain old RITALIN

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4-mec, amt, bk-mdma, cathinone, desoxypipradrol, ethylphenidate, mdai, mdma, methiopropamine, methylone, mpa, pentedrone, research chemical, stimulant

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