Comedown - Half Life / Hangover from cannabis?

[desolated000]

Ok I know the half life of weed really only lasts long when you eat it, but every time I smoke the next day I still have that numb feeling of being high, but that is the only effect of the weed I am still feeling. I am relatively new to weed, Ive smoked maybe 6 or so times in the last week. I'm not sure if I like it, will this stop when my body becomes farmiliar with the chemicals?

Quick question, I imagine not, but does weed help you work out? I was working out today (feeling the half life) and I didn't break much sweat where the other people in my class were nearly drenched, and I am in a very crappy physical condition on top of that.

[Myzrael]

Well , some weed is stored in your fat cells. But I don't think you should notice a lot from that. Ofcourse the hangover can be mental as well...
On the other hand. That is has for example a half life of 4 hours means that after 4 hours half of it is gone. And then 4 hours again before half of that half is gone. So it takes quite a while to be totally gone.

As for working out....weed defenitly does not help. In fact it makes your muscles weaker for a short while....also your condition might suffer because of the smoking.

[The Doors]

When SWIM first started to smoke, the next day he would usually feel a bit "high" or disoriented a little. It went away after a few weeks but it's probably a normal thing since all of SWIM's friends experienced the same thing.

[blue_eyes]

SWIM finds that smoking weed leaves her feeling a bit fuzzy the next day. Or, if she is going through a stage of daily smoking, she has a constant "cloud" of fuzziness over her head. SWIM has been smoking weed for about 14 1/2 years, and the fuzziness has never really gone away.

Also, with regards to the exercise question, contrary to Myzrael's comment, SWIM not only enjoys to exercise stoned, but she is far more productive. SWIM finds that she concentrates more on technique (and we all know that its they way you do the exercise, not the weight you use/the reps you do that makes it effective) and she also enjoys the sensation of the burn in her muscles. This means that she performs the exercises better, and is able to complete a more rigorous routine when stoned. SWIM doesn't experience extra muscle fatigue or weakness when stoned.

However, I have a theory as to why this is the case for some and not others. See, the way SWIM is feeling when she gets stoned affects the way she behaves when stoned. If SWIM smokes weed when she's down or tired, she is most likely to slip into a very lazy state of unproductiveness.

If SWIM is motivated to exercise when she is stoned, that's what she does, with complete dedication.

SWIM experiences the same phenomonon when she is feeling creative, when she gets stoned! She gets so involved in making something, painting, sewing, cooking, and writing etc that she creates some amazing things.

Now, the crux of my theory is that smoking weed amplifies the users current feelings/intentions, thus creating a situation where the person intensely undertakes that activity. So, if that's to do nothing, they will sit, contentedly doing nothing. If that is to exercise, they will put 100% into their workout.

I don't know if this will help, but that's SWIM's experience on the subject

[Myzrael]

Originally Posted by blue_eyes

SWIM finds that smoking weed leaves her feeling a bit fuzzy the next day. Or, if she is going through a stage of daily smoking, she has a constant "cloud" of fuzziness over her head. SWIM has been smoking weed for about 14 1/2 years, and the fuzziness has never really gone away.

Also, with regards to the exercise question, contrary to Myzrael's comment, SWIM not only enjoys to exercise stoned, but she is far more productive. SWIM finds that she concentrates more on technique (and we all know that its they way you do the exercise, not the weight you use/the reps you do that makes it effective) and she also enjoys the sensation of the burn in her muscles. This means that she performs the exercises better, and is able to complete a more rigorous routine when stoned. SWIM doesn't experience extra muscle fatigue or weakness when stoned.

However, I have a theory as to why this is the case for some and not others. See, the way SWIM is feeling when she gets stoned affects the way she behaves when stoned. If SWIM smokes weed when she's down or tired, she is most likely to slip into a very lazy state of unproductiveness.

If SWIM is motivated to exercise when she is stoned, that's what she does, with complete dedication.

SWIM experiences the same phenomonon when she is feeling creative, when she gets stoned! She gets so involved in making something, painting, sewing, cooking, and writing etc that she creates some amazing things.

Now, the crux of my theory is that smoking weed amplifies the users current feelings/intentions, thus creating a situation where the person intensely undertakes that activity. So, if that's to do nothing, they will sit, contentedly doing nothing. If that is to exercise, they will put 100% into their workout.

I don't know if this will help, but that's SWIM's experience on the subject

Well , SWIM does has to disagree with you a bit but not totally. It might be true that for a normal exercise you could benefit from it. But for SWIM....SWIM does powerlifting. And that's purely weight and strenght based. Now weed will not increase that because when it comes to absolute strenght it makes you weaker.
So it might true that SWIY could benefit from it but that is because you probably do more than 5 repetitions a set. SWIM always does less than that. So SWIM should have been more specific.

[CrookedEye]

Swim only gets pot hangovers, which in actuality, feel pretty good anyways, when he intakes large amounts of cannabis, and usually food included, all day, more so than the usual 1/8 a day or so.. Swim has smoked everyday for over 12 years, except for 18 months on probation.. Swim never gets any fuzziness, or clouded thought, but can experience the dizziness when first awakening, after a night of heavy puffin/eating.. Swim finds drinking plenty of water, getting some excersize, and eating a proper diet will help eliminate most, if not all, of those symptoms..

[IHrtHalucingens]

SWIM loves smoking a large amount of marijuana the night before and waking up still kind of high, he loves being high, and can function perfectly while high so waking up with the groggy, high, hangover feeling is a good start to the day for him.

As for working out while high, SWIM aslo enjoys doing so. He swims close to 10 miles a day, lifts weights 3-4 times a week, and plays lacrosse 5 times a week among other random physical activity for fun. He enjoys a few bong rips before all physical activities. Right before the activity after smoking he uses an asthma inhaler that seems to open his lungs and airways but still allowing him to be high just without the negative physical side effects.

[grecian]

Originally Posted by Myzrael

Well , some weed is stored in your fat cells.

i dont think that i have heard this before. does this mean that obese people who smoke/have smoked a lot carry around loadsa weed? or is there sum sorta time limit

this is gonna make me laugh cuz im going to a fat girls party tonite if the weed runs out il suggest eating her fat.

[Myzrael]

LOL , you should not take it so literally hehehe.
If you smoke a lot then THC metabolites will be stored in your fat cells though. That's the reason why people that really smoke a lot will start sweating and stuff like that.

[CrookedEye]

The metabolites store in ones fat cells, as stated, so a skinnier person we'll test clean for a drug test before an obese person.. I wouldn't say fat smokers sweat anymore than fat non-smokers in general.. Cannabis does slightly lower ones body temp, though, so a regular smoker may seem a bit hotter or clammier when they don't smoke, in swims experience... And BTW, for pot hangovers, there is an old saying "get aahair of the dog that bit ya", which basically means a few puffs in the mornin will set your head fine, usually.. Or when one has a bad alcohol hangover, a beer can help take the edge off, and make one feel normal(same priniciple, I suppose)..

[blue_eyes]

Originally Posted by Myzrael

Well , SWIM does has to disagree with you a bit but not totally. It might be true that for a normal exercise you could benefit from it. But for SWIM....SWIM does powerlifting. And that's purely weight and strenght based. Now weed will not increase that because when it comes to absolute strenght it makes you weaker.
So it might true that SWIY could benefit from it but that is because you probably do more than 5 repetitions a set. SWIM always does less than that. So SWIM should have been more specific.

I agree with what you said. I think to start with, we both generalised too much in our comments about exercising stoned. With your last post in mind, I would like to say that we both have a credible theory, that is applicable to certain circumstances only.

So, we're both right!

[Myzrael]

Originally Posted by blue_eyes

So, we're both right!

Agreed. We are both right in our own way. Really depends on the person. Just like live it isn't black and white.
*imaginary reputation given*

[CrookedEye]

Originally Posted by Myzrael

when it comes to absolute strenght it makes you weaker.

Where is your source of this information? Arnold Schwarzenegger smoked herb for his workouts, just some FYI...

[Myzrael]

Originally Posted by CrookedEye

Where is your source of this information? Arnold Schwarzenegger smoked herb for his workouts, just some FYI...

And Arnold Schwarzenegger uses a LOT more than just herbs......he was on steroids at the age of 15/16 probably....perhaps a bit later (he's not gonna admist doing that at such a young age) , but he used a LOT. So just because he smoked herb tells nothing.
And besides that...Arnold Schwarzenegger does not train absolute strenght pur sang. He is a bodybuilder and not a powerlifter. Those are two different things.

My source. Been training for a couple of years and have read a lot of information. It would basicly inpossible to give you sources because they are so diverse. Could be pubmed , books , forums etc.

[CrookedEye]

Originally Posted by Myzrael

My source. Been training for a couple of years and have read a lot of information. It would basicly inpossible to give you sources because they are so diverse. Could be pubmed , books , forums etc.

Well, I suppose you can have your opinion, but if you want me to believe you, I'd need a reasonable explanation as to how cannabis makes one weaker... As for Arnold, I don't know his total drug history, however, I wouldn't go around saying that people who smoke weed are weaker, regardless of what other drugs they take.. I just can't find any factual information to support your claim, but you are welcome to quote/site any source for a place for me to begin researching your claims, since you don't seem to keen on supporting your argument..

[Myzrael]

Originally Posted by CrookedEye

Well, I suppose you can have your opinion, but if you want me to believe you, I'd need a reasonable explanation as to how cannabis makes one weaker... As for Arnold, I don't know his total drug history, however, I wouldn't go around saying that people who smoke weed are weaker, regardless of what other drugs they take.. I just can't find any factual information to support your claim, but you are welcome to quote/site any source for a place for me to begin researching your claims, since you don't seem to keen on supporting your argument..

I will do some research on it but it takes a lot of time and you know that. I did not say people who smoke are weaker. I said that while on weed absolute strenght does not increase (meaning a 1 rep max effort). And that's something totally different from saying that people who smoke weed are weaker. I will look some sources up but I'm busy as well...

[CrookedEye]

Originally Posted by Myzrael

I will do some research on it but it takes a lot of time and you know that. I did not say people who smoke are weaker. I said that while on weed absolute strenght does not increase (meaning a 1 rep max effort). And that's something totally different from saying that people who smoke weed are weaker. I will look some sources up but I'm busy as well...

I understand cannabis may not increase your strength, but I don't believe it will hinder it, is all I am saying..

[Nature Boy]

Smoking weed doesn't make you weaker in terms of exercise, it just gives you the sense to not bother.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Classic line! Cheers fer the chuckle!

[Dogears]

SWIM has found that if he has not smoked weed in a long time he will sometimes get a "hang over" the next day. Mostly a tired feeling. This is most likely to happen if he goes to bed stonned.

[desolated000]

Wow, thanks for all your posts everyone. Swim isnt really feeling the hangover thing as much anymore, now that he has gotten used to weed, but he still feels it a little.

And for the exercise bit, I was talking about how pot can make you kinda numb, especially when you first start smoking it. When swim first started his legs would go incredibly numb, and hiking with this numbness in his legs allowed him to walk farther because he couldnt feel the burning in his legs, although he was sure it was there.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Yay! SWiYou've learnt to SWiM! Keep it up mate, & edit yer posts as soon as ye can!

[cactus]

i get a hang over if i smoke too late in the evening but only on weed, hash doesnt do it to me.

[Ebatra]

Swim friend used to get really bad head aches after smoking weed but as for swim he just feels tired for a bit afterwoods then feels fine. Although remembering back when swim just first started to smoke weed he sometimes could feel some, not a lot, of the effect the next day.

[OccularFantasm]

Part One: Will the weed hangover go away? Yes. You may have a little bit of a 'permastone' as us stoners like to call it, but it will at the very least diminish greatly. If you don't smoke in a few days and then smoke a lot however, expect it to return. All in all, its a good thing IMHO.

Part Two: Does smoking marijuana make one weaker. I see where your both coming from on this one. Marijuana smoke does bind to excess testosterone, so at the very least guys will be less effcuent at building muscles and may become tired or sore earlier. The actual workout would not really be hundered however. Swim finds that when smoking and working out that swims head is really very clear and sublime. Swim personally prefers to work out, then smoke, then work out, then smoke. It makes you start off with lots of energy, then you get the high workout, then by the end youve tired ur body out and u can just let the high take ahold. So to answer the question, sort of yes and sort of no. Sorry I couldnt be more decisive, but the combination of the two ideas is the complete theroy.


Part 3: As far as the type of workout, if one were to swim or run, it may make you weaker to smoke just becuase of diminished lung capacity leading to less oxygen leading to excess lactic acid whic makes you tired and sore and out of breathe. Although, if you eat it or vaporize it, the aerobic downsides would be eliminated. Alos, swim thinks it owuld depend greatly ont he type of weed. Is it skunky outdoor, is it cheap mersh, or is it crazy sticky sativa. The more sedative varieties may leave you less motivated or more tired, whereas more cerebral varieties would leave you more focused and energized, relatively speaking. I guess this was more of a part 2 subsection b, oh well.

[keats]

Marijuana is like any other drug, it makes you feel "better" than normal for a period and then "worse" for a longer period. It's a pretty mild drug and almost entirely mental so unlike alcohol or cocaine you don't feel that bad after it wears off/the next day, but it's still there. If you smoke more often (every day for an extended period) you will, as others have put it, become permastoned. To what degree depends on the amount/frequency of your smoking, SWIM has had friends who were just high 24/7 and acted like...well like they were high 24/7. SWIM definately notices the difference smoking every day vs. taking a break, some time off clears SWIM's head and helps his memory but worsens his mood and appetite and makes it harder to sleep. It's a trade off, but to directly answer the question you asked that feeling will always be there when you're smoking, and it's not so much that it goes away for regular users as much as they just get used to it.

However on the physical side SWIM takes serious issue with some of the "information" being thrown around on this thread. Smoking marijuana does NOT reduce strength, make it harder to gain strength, cause a decrease in the ability to raise your "absolute" strength, or any other such nonsense. I've still yet to see a single citation or even suggestion for where these "facts" are coming from.

On a personal level SWIM likes lifting weights or running high, and does he crunches and leg lifts every time he smokes at the minimum. If you hate exercising you're not gonna do it high, and marijuana can even become an excuse. But if you like to exercise anyway you'll keep doing it. It's just like anything else, if you're a good student who wants to do really well in school you'll probably keep up with it even if you're getting high, if you're a slacker who doesn't care about class you'll probably continue being lazy and then blame it on the drug. More to say here but SWIM doesn't want to get too off topic. If SWIY would like to provide some links to where any of this physical effects caused by marijuana SWIM would like to read them, maybe he could learn something.

[OccularFantasm]

Well in swims own experiance he notices muscles builds up to a lesser degree when he works out high then sober, with the same amount of lifting. Swim also eventually found an article on it, although he hasnt fully read it yet as its early and siwm is tired. The article is also fairly outdated as it was in 1980 something. Swim had seen other articles on blackwellsynergy, but did not have an account so he coudlnt see that article. The article in and of itself is a pdf with charts n such, but i will jus paste the text from the portion related to this thread here. PM me or just reply in the thread if you want the whole pdf and swim'll do it up. Also sorry if it doesn't copy real well, and at the end where it talks about figures is where the graphs and charts that wouldnt copy would be.
===================================
Effects of Marijuana on
Neuroendocrine Hormones in
Human Males and Females
Jack H. Mendelson, M.D, and Nancy K. Mello, Ph.D.

I. MARIJUANA EFFECTS ON PITUITARY-GONADAL HORMONES IN MALES
In 1971, our laboratory began clinical research on marijuana ef-
fects in humans following a request by the National Commission on
Marijuana for acute and chronic studies of marijuana smoking in
human males (Mendelson et al. 1972; Mendelson et al. 1974a). Dur-
ing the past 12 years we have examined the biological and behavi-
oral consequences of marijuana use in over 200 human male volun-
teer subjects. Many of these studies have been multi-disciplin-
ary and have involved investigators from internal medicine, psy-
chiatry, psychology, biochemistry, physiology, sociology, neuro-
psychology and neuroradiology (Mendelson et al. 1974a and b;
1976a and b; Rossi et al. 1977, 1978; Kuehnle et al. 1977).
Numerous experimental animal studies, primarily conducted with
rodents, have shown that cannabis compounds suppress plasma tes-
tosterone levels (Collu et al. 1975; Mascarinec et al. 1978;
Symons et al. 1976; Thompson et al. 1974, 1973). Varying effects
of cannabis have been reported in vitro studies of leydig cell
testosterone synthesis from tissues obtained from rat and mice
testes (Burstein et al. 1978, 1979; Dalterio et al, 1977;
Jakubovic et al. 1979). The manner in which cannabis prepara-
tions affect leydig cell function in the intact animal remains
unclear since leydig cell regression has
been found in mice
(Dixit et al. 1974) but no leydig cell changes were observed in
pigeons (Vyas and Singh 1976). There are also conflicting data
concerning the effects of cannabis compounds on HCG stimulation
of plasma testosterone, with both inhibitory and lack of inhibi-
tory effects reported (Jakubovic et al. 1979).
Luteinizing hormone levels have been found to be suppressed in
male rodents following injection of cannabis compounds (Collu et
al. 1975; Marks 1973; Symons et al. 1976), but it is not clear
if luteinizing hormone levels were depressed antecedent to changes
in plasma testosterone levels. It is unfortunate that parametric
data are not available for cannabis effects on sequential deter-
mination of luteini zing hormone and testosterone levels in plasma
97

samples obtained from experimental animals. If cannabis com-
pounds suppress testosterone levels via a central mechanism it
would be anticipated that decrements in luteinizing hormone
levels would occur prior to changes in plasma testosterone
On the other hand, if decrements in plasma testosterone
levels.
levels occurred initially without an antecedent fall in LH levels
the most parsimonious explanation for this phenomena is that can-
nabis acts directly to inhibit testosterone production, increase
testosterone clearance, or both. But if cannabis compounds dir-
ectly affect production or clearance rate of gonadal steroids,
negative feedback stimulation should result in an increment
An unfortunate lack of
rather than a decrement in LH values.
attention to well known feedback control mechanisms for regula-
tion of hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal function in cannabis rela-
ted studies with experimental animals has been critically commen-
ted upon by Abel in his recent review on marijuana and sexual
function (Abel 1981). An excellent comprehensive review of the
effects of marijuana and cannabis on reproduction and endocrine
function has been prepared by Dr. Eric Bloch (1983).
Studies of marijuana effects on pituitary gonadal hormones in
human males were stimulated by Harmon and Aliapoulios’ (1972)
clinical observations of gynecomastia in 3 men who reported smok-
ing large quantities of marijuana over a long period of time.
Subsequently, Kolodny and his associates (1974) reported that
plasma testosterone levels in 20 male marijuana smokers (aged
18-28) were significantly lower than testosterone levels in males
who reported no past history of marijuana use. In 1974, we re-
ported minimal effects of chronic marijuana smoking on testos-
terone levels in men studied under controlled conditions, on a
clinical research ward (Mendelson et al. 1974b). Since antece-
dent use of other drugs (alcohol, opiates) has been shown to de-
press male plasma testosterone levels (cf. Mendelson et al. 1978a)
we felt it was essential to evaluate the direct effects of mari-
juana in an otherwise drug-free environment. Twenty-seven men
(aged 21-26) were designated as heavy or casual marijuana users
on the basis of their past history of marijuana use. Twelve sub-
jects reported smoking marijuana for an average of 5.3 years and
smoking an average of 11.5 times per month during the year before
the study. These subjects were designated as casual users. Fif-
teen subjects reported smoking marijuana for 5.6-years and smoked
a mean of 42 marijuana cigarettes per month during the year be-
fore the study. These subjects were designated as heavy users.
The study consisted of 3 phases: a drug-free baseline period of
5 days; a 21-day period during which subjects could acquire and
smoke marijuana cigarettes; and a postmarijuana smoking period of
5 days duration. During the 21-day marijuana smoking phase, sub-
jects had an opportunity to work at a simple operant task to earn
points that were exchangeable for either money or marijuana cig-
arettes. Blood samples were obtained daily between 8:30 and 9:30
a.m. throughout the 31-day study for analysis of plasma testoste-
rone levels.
98

The effects of marijuana on plasma testosterone levels in casual
and heavy marijuana smokers are shown in figures 1 and 2. Casual
users smoked an average of 54.3 marijuana cigarettes during the
21 day period. Casual users smoked slightly more marijuana dur-
ing successive 7 day periods of the study (figure 1). However,
plasma testosterone levels were not significantly different from
baseline, and no statistically significant differences in testos-
terone levels were found between any phases of the study (fig. 1).
The heavy users smoked a mean of 119.5 marijuana cigarettes dur-
ing the 21 day smoking period (figure 2). The heavy users
smoked more marijuana cigarettes each day than the casual users
and the heavy users also smoked progressively more
marijuana over
successive phases of the study (figure 2). Despite heavy mari-
juana smoking, plasma testosterone levels did not change appre-
ciably from baseline. No statistically significant differences
in plasma testosterone lwels of heavy smokers were found during
any phases of the study. Moreover, there were no statistically
significant differences in plasma testosterone levels between
heavy and casual users during any phase of the study.
In 1976, Kolodny and his associates reported findings obtained in
changes of plasma testosterone levels in normal
studies of acute
males after marijuana smoking. Plasma testosterone levels were
measured at 15, 30, 60, 120 and 180 minutes after marijuana smok-
ing as compared with values ohtained for the same individuals dur-
ing a control period when no marijuana smoking took place. Kolodny
and his colleagues (1976) also reported that statistically signi-
ficant lower plasma luteinizing hormone values were found 180
minutes after marijuana smoking in the same group of men.
We subsequently undertook a more detailed investigation of the
interrelationships between marijuana use, luteinizing hormone and
testosterone levels in healthy adult males, studied under con-
trolled research ward conditions (Mendelson et al. 1978b). A
major technological advance allowed us to collect continuous
plasma samples over 24 hours from a chronic intravenous catheter
attached to a battery-operated portable non-thrombogenic pump.
This technique permitted determination of integrated plasma
values for testosterone and luteinizing hormone before, during,
and after a period of chronic marijuana use. Again, no systema-
tic relationships were found between marijuana smoking and in-
creases or decreases in plasma testosterone levels and no correla-
tion was obtained between changes in luteinizing hormone levels
with marijuana use. Figure 3 (middle) shows the relationship be-
tween marijuana cigarette smoking and plasma testosterone and
IH values in a representative subject. Comparison of these data
with plasma testosterone and LH values prior to and following mari-
juana use (rows 1 and 3, figure 3) shows that there were episodic
fluctuations in testosterone levels and smaller fluctuations in
plasma LH levels on all study days. But these episodic varia-
tions could not be correlated with antecedent or concurrent mari-
juana use (Mendelson et al. 1978b). The episodic secretory pat-
terns of these pituitary-gonadal hormones attest to the importance
99

Figure 1. Plasma Testosterone Values for 12 “Casual Users before, during and after a 21 -Day Marihuana-Smoking Period
Mendelson, J.H., Kuehnle, J., Ellingboe, J., and Babor, T.F. Plasma
From:
testosterone levels before, during and after chronic marihuana smoking.
N. Eng. J. Med., 291:1051-1055, 1974b. Copyright, The Massachusetts
Medical Society. Reprinted by permission.

Figure 2. Plasma Testosterone Levels for 15 “Heavy Users” before, during and after a 21-Day Marihuana-Smoking Period
From:
Mendeison, J.H., Kuehnle, J., Ellingboe, J., and Babor, T.F. Plasma
testosterone levels before, during and after chronic marihuana smoking.
N. Engl. J. Med.,
291:1051-1055, 1974b. Copyright, The Massachusetts
Medical Society. Reprinted by permission.

Fig. 3. Plasma lestosterone and luteinizing hormone values for a 26-year-old healthy adult male before during
and after marihuana smoking Days 5. 26 and 29 refer to experimental day (day 26 was the 21st consecutive
day of marihuana smoking) The 11:00 AM sample for testosterone and LH analysis on day 26 was lost and
therefore not reported
Mendelson, J.H.; Ellingboe, J.;
Kuehnle, J.C.; and Mello, N.K. Effects of chronic mari-
huana use on integrated plasma testosterone and luteinizing hormone levels. J Pharmacol
Exp Ther, 207:611-617, 1978. © 1978, American Society for Pharmacology andrxperimental
Theraputics. Reprinted by permission.
102

of using an integrated plasma sampling procedure which yields a
true mean value for each collection interval.