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Nightshades Atropine plants like Datura(Angel trumpet), Mandrake & Bella Donna

 
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  #1  
Old 12-07-2004, 03:21
RoboCop RoboCop is offline
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I know this is a drug alot of people say to stay away from, yet i've heard of many people who were glad they tried it for the experience at mild doses. Has anyone tried this and liked it? It's supposed to be a very crazy drug, I'm going to try some crushed datura seeds for sure, and make sure im very carefull with the dosage. What made me want to try it is that datura is dangerous to mix with ALMOST any drug and on the datura FAQ on erowid they say the safest drug to mix with it is DXM. Me being a big dxm fan would like to mix the two at small doses. Of course im going to try it straight first
  #2  
Old 12-07-2004, 13:16
sands of time sands of time is offline
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All I can say is start off with small amounts. I have never done that stuff but I have seen people who have done it and even a day later they still see crazy shit.
  #3  
Old 18-07-2004, 22:19
markdahman markdahman is offline
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Ive done datura tea about 4 or 5 times but yeah forsure make sure you dont take tomuch man. Ive had 50/50 luck wiht it one bad trip one good one. One the bad ones i usually wake up in a ditch somewhere cuz i refuse to go to the hospital. Make sure you have a trip sitter also.
  #4  
Old 08-08-2004, 02:39
hacnslash Gold member hacnslash is offline
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I've done datura on several occasions. I've never had a good experience because i think i was too conservative on the dosages (of course it's better to err on the side of caution). My highest dosage was 100 seeds and i got some interesting effects like hearing wispers and some other minor auditory hallucinations. Nothing visual though and the full blown bad side effects. Horrible cottonmouth (for about a day and a half). My vision was bad for about 2 days.
  #5  
Old 09-08-2004, 00:37
psyko_tripper psyko_tripper is offline
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"My highest dosage was 100 seeds and i got some interesting effects like hearing wispers and some other minor auditory hallucinations."


Thats really alot to eat! And you only got some minor effects? <img border="0" src= "smileys/smiley3.gif">


I always thought that 1-3 seeds would be enough to trip balls. But I guess potency really varies alot from plant to plant.
  #6  
Old 09-08-2004, 04:18
hacnslash Gold member hacnslash is offline
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naw dude, 1-3 seeds won't do anything...from *any* plant. on erowid the experience reports are all in like teaspoons or tablespoons...you need a lot more than 3 seeds.
  #7  
Old 09-08-2004, 14:37
psyko_tripper psyko_tripper is offline
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Oh, ok


thanks for clearing that up!


  #8  
Old 12-08-2004, 03:06
RoboCop RoboCop is offline
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I'm gonna try it when I can get a hold of some no shops sell any hear i'll have to order some from the net, cuz im to lazy to find the plant.
  #9  
Old 24-09-2004, 01:58
Alquimista Alquimista is offline
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Recently I got to know a fellow psychonaut. We started chatting about our experiences and he described me his Datura experiences. He has done Datura on 7 occasions and on 2 occasions it didnt affect him at all. He dosent know dosage in detail cause it grows naturally here and the most common dosage is half of the 'apple'. He also knows few people who have used up all the apple and got some really hardcore trips. But the most intense trip he told me about got me really frightened of the idea to try it out myself. He had very faint ideas what happened on the true peak cause he just dosent remember it. Very hardcore visual, paranoia and absolutely no understanding of what is real and what is not. If you want to know something specifical I could ask him next time I see him.
  #10  
Old 28-09-2004, 11:19
jarka Gold member jarka is offline
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Can anyone tell me, how many seeds are in one pod usually?
  #11  
Old 14-10-2004, 12:22
smartbee smartbee is offline
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They told me that you can use every part of the plant, and 10 seeds is enough to start with. Also the told me to make thee out of the leaves and stamps, or smoke crushed dried leaves. Smoke they say is, the safest way to use, but gives a heavey trip, and could take up till two days!

So does anybody now how much seeds for a normal dose, how much for making thee out of fresh plant parts and how much out of dried plant parts. Also how many gr or mg smoking crushed dried leaves. And has anybody experience to extract the alkaloids?
  #12  
Old 03-12-2004, 09:34
hippie_lain Gold member hippie_lain is offline
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Anyone wanting to try datura should know that the flowers and leafes works too. Hopefully the datura godess will bless you. No joke, I saw a godess when I took it. Weird shit man.
  #13  
Old 08-12-2004, 07:35
bongfodder bongfodder is offline
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This is the third day after I took one large hit off a big bowl with dried Angel Trumpet Datura Brugmansia leaves.


I felt it before exhaling,I felt a wind was blowing me sideways and
the effects of the beer I drank earlier were stronger.I remember
talking about time being altered and the strangness of everything and
couldn't believe no one else in the room felt the same simply from
inhaling the fumes.


Then there was a knock on the door,so I answered it
and there was this bearded guy with a cane asking for somone I'd
never heard of which struck me as bizzare but did realy happen.

Went to sleep for a while,5 hours and woke up with a rotten
headache still far from reality,Ifelt the skin of my face was numb all
the way down to my skull and shortly after went back to sleep.

The closesest thing I can compare the day after with was having the flue,still felt like crap,still felt far from normal.

I did both nights have intense vivid dreams having involved
conversations with the other characters that I now remember more easily
than what happened awake.

This drug may be a teacher but it's one that uses a bullwhip to make it's point.











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  #14  
Old 16-12-2004, 18:16
sunyata Gold member sunyata is offline
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I've been adding the above mentioned Angels Trumpet to my cannabis occasionally for about three months now. Please note that I don't do it more than once a weekand rarely more than a very small pinch each time.


It definatly potentiates cannabis of any quality and I know some people like smoking it solo when they're out of cannabis. Supposedly it potentiates opiates, harmalin, mescalin, mushrooms and is often used as an additive in ayahuasca. It is said to induce a sense of flying.


Except from becoming really stoned theonlyhallucinogenic effects I've experiencedare auditory. I hear cruel, wicked laughter comin from somewhere and feellike there's a hostile being in my mind. This has scared me from trying larger doses.


But a wonderful additive in small doses, except for a slight depression the next day, and the taste is quite nice. Be careful.Just say know.


OhmShiva

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good info

Last edited by sunyata; 11-06-2006 at 15:24.
  #15  
Old 27-12-2004, 06:51
panchovilla panchovilla is offline
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Datura is good to look at.

Last edited by panchovilla; 06-03-2007 at 04:03.
  #16  
Old 27-12-2004, 20:09
sunyata Gold member sunyata is offline
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I used Brugmansia Sauvolens, from Peru, they are not Datura if you view it from a botanists perspective, but they contain the same alkaloids in different quantities. I think you were wise not to drink to much of the brew you guys made, the effects described by your friend seems to be quite common with these plants, even though some people have relatively comfortable experiences.


You can smoke Brugmansia to reach a similar delirium as when ingesting it as tea, but I've never tried that, it sounds too scary.


THIS IS NOT A RECREATIONAL DRUG!!


  #17  
Old 13-01-2005, 02:05
Dr_H Gold member Dr_H is offline
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Panchovilla and sunyata are correct in that Datura and Brugmansia are not the same. It is easy to tell them apart by looking at the flowers. Datura flowers point up and Brugmansia flowers point down.


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Old 05-02-2005, 02:30
DrugPhreak DrugPhreak is offline
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One time I found a really healthy Jimson Weed plant so I pulled it up and took out all the seeds from the pods. I also cut off the leaves and roots. Then I boiled all of these and reduced it to a very small amount. It's smelled like rotten turkey or something, but I proceeded to drink a shot glass of this and had the most amazing experiences I ever had in mylife. I don't think I would ever do it again, but I recommend that everyone try it at least one time.
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Old 05-02-2005, 03:29
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http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/pubs/579/index.htm#Contents





this was an interesting read to me.

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Old 22-02-2005, 07:45
Lacognac69 Lacognac69 is offline
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so what is a good amount of seeds to have. Can you just eat the seeds by themselves or do you have to extract the stuff out of them? I've read some experience reports saying it was insane with 10-15 seeds, so im wondering it thats a normal dose or if it usually takes more, especially since "hacnslash" took 100 of them.
  #21  
Old 22-02-2005, 08:36
RoboCop RoboCop is offline
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There is no correct dosage of seeds, each plant varies in potency so much that you have to test its potencty, start very low, and do not redose because you think it isn't having effect.
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Old 15-12-2005, 20:30
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if you have a plant you can clip 4-7 flowers and boil them in water and drink it. there are a lot of different strands though. i'm talking about the 6-10 inch yellow flowers because that's what grows in many gardens around here.
but definitely start small. the first time my friend did it i watched him boil down 10 flowers and drink it. he spent the next ten hours talking to a white striped poster, wandering around in the bathroom and putting all of our toothbrushes and razors in the shower stall, and watching the smoke detector reach out a finger and touch the ground repetedly. it was pretty amusing but also kind or unnerving watching him react this way. iswim has only done this once, but it was only a 6 flower dose. it was fun but mellow, alll i did was sit in the living room and talk to people in a photo album of mine. it also affects ones eyes over the next couple of days, it makes everything blurry.
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Old 25-01-2006, 15:22
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I picked a few flowers with a view to making some tea at some point later. I guess I must have carried them around in my hand for the best part of 2 hours. After I had been home for an hour or so it became quite obvious I was coming up on something. From what I remember there was warmth, energy and slight visual trails. It was a totally enjoyable episode.
I never got around to the tea. The potency of brugmansia and the benign method of ingestion led me to file and forget about any further experimentation.
Not to be taken lightly.
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Old 25-01-2006, 15:30
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Ages ago I ate 40 or so datura stramonium seeds but it didn't do anything. Kind of lucky I guess as I've heard of some really fucked up trips and doubt I would have been able to handle it at that age.
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Old 30-01-2006, 15:40
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Once I ate 60 datura strammoniçum seeds (black ones, which means these were very ripe seeds). I chewed these on empty stomach and then swallowed.

I had no trip and only the negative side effects:
my vision was very blurred (no way to read any text no matter if the letters were small or huge, far away or close to me), my mouth was very dry so I drank a lot of water, inability to piss despite I was drinking a lot, realizing this I choosed not to drink to regularly, just enough to help with dehydratation but little enough not to get a damn need to piss while it wasn't possible. Note that drinking would not help with the very unpleasant dryness of the mouth. My skin was a bit dry too, and warm (not hot, no fever or anything as it can happen with higher doses, but it was warm).
I felt really out of step and confused but got no trip (no hallucinations, no delirium, nothing)
I think I need at least 100seeds to get a trip from it.

Anyway, internet reciepes say you can trip by eating datura leaves, flowers, seeds or roots (whole or as a tea).
Now, you need to know that oral use is very dangerous (lots of toxicity and nasty side effects). Shamans and witches would use datura (and other solanaceaes plants as mandrake, henbane, brugmansia, belladona..) in form of an ointment (which is much less toxic even if it's still quite a dangerous drug even in this form).
Explanations: datura contains scopolamine and atropine. Both are really toxic substances but scopolamine is the one you want (more hallucinogen and less side effects than atropine I guess). And the trick is that only scopolamine will pass through the skin (atropine cannot) which is why they used datura as a transdermal ointment.


HERE's the ALL DATURA INFOS (including the reciepe to make an ointment):





So, here is some info about datura use (Datura spp.)
Note that it's exactly the same thing for any solanaceae plant as Atropa Belladonna aka Belladonna, Mandragora Officinarum aka mandrake, Hyoscyamus Niger aka henbane, Brugmansia spp. aka tree datura...I mean same risks, same effects (exepting that belladonna, henbane and mandrake are the most toxic ones: they have also been used as deadly poisons to kill people), same preparation (not tea!! make an ointment!), same advice about increasing dose progressively...the same.



MOST USED SPECIES OF DATURA:

Datura Inoxia (also called Datura Meteloides):
this is the one mexico shamans use for visionnary purposes, probably the best specie to be used

Datura Metel (also called Datura Fastuosa):
another specie used by shamans

Datura Strammonium:
said to be more toxic than the two other species, it's the one that was used by european middle age witches

Note that there are many other species of datura but these are the most famous one (and "tree datura" is refering to another specie of solanaceae plant: Brugmansia spp.)

HOW TO USE DATURA:

Datura ?
Well, I believe all of you are responsible people. So I know all of you
have been making lots of researches (on bluelight AND erowid.org) before even thinking about using such a dangerous (who did say poisonous ?) drug.
So, I would say that any of you who would think about using datura is aware of this:


Datura potency vary greatly from one plant to another (including between two plants of the same strain)...

MUCH better using the seeds since their potency vary much less than leaves & flowers (wich potency may vary greatly from one to another)
This doesn't mean seeds aren't dangerous. They are.
Note that roots portency also doesn't vary much so it's ok too (for belladonna don't use the roots = extremely toxic, I suggest you stick to datura and brugmansia and avoid the most toxic solanaceae ie. belladonna, mandrake and henbane).


Datura dosages often vary greatly from an individual to another.
Some would get complete delirium with 30 seeds, other would need as much as 200 (!!). So if one would need 30 but use 200 as a friend who used 200 successfully told him to do he would just overdose...death can occur in two ways with datura: from cardiovascular troubles (greatly increased heart rate, up to 150bpm, and severe hypertension) leading to haemorrhage, heart failure... OR from overheating up to 42-43°C (which is fatal) !
You'll HAVE TO start with low dose (20-30) and work your way up progressively until you find your OWN dose (for me it's around 100 seeds with datura strammonium, the only specie I've tried)

Smoking leaves/flowers is said to be the safest way to use datura but I tried to smoke datura stramonium leaves, flowers and seeds with almost NO results. Just a slight high feeling (pleasant but very slight). Maybe this could work if your plant is very concentrated (henbane leaves are said to be potent enough so one can achieve effects from smoking these) but I doubt it would give any hallucinations, I think at most would you get a high and weird feelings.

So here is how to get hallucinations:

The WRONG & most dangerous way to use Datura (& other solanaceae) is to take them orally (eating the seeds or making a tea)... hospitalisations and death have often happened with oral use.

The ONLY "SAFE" (note the " ") way has to be the way people who used datura for thousand years have choosen:
Shamans & european witches believe the good way to be transdermal use in the form of an ointment wich is spread over specific parts of the body.

The wise guy knows the only way to choose to be the shaman's way (not
the "people on the internet" or "friend of mine" way)

Yess, shamans & witches know what they are doing.

Datura has two active principles. One is "good" for tripping. The other is not. The good one can pass through the skin. The bad one can't. So using datura transdermally is the way to keep the bad one out of you're body (that sounds great because you don't want this one to be in your system)
Don't ask me how could shamans be aware of this, centuries ago...


Ow! People on the internet claim they have been using a tea successfully ? Congratulations ! (note that some didn't had any congratulations for their tea because they are no more here to tell anyone about their own tea-death story )
Fun, isn't it ?
So don't listen to internet people saying stupid things like "make a tea, drink it, that's a great high, it worked for me"...because it was fatal to many.

SO, I hope nobody is fool enough to use datura orally when they know it's not good for them

...& here is the ointment recipe (so nobody has any excuse for not doing it):

-Crush the datura seeds in a fine powder.
-Place the powdered seeds in some lard (= pork fat).
-Add some organic soot (how to make it: see below).
-Blend well.
-Cook over a gentle heat (below 100 °C) for 2-4 hours while stiring regularly.
-Let sit for a week (at least) in a dark place, stir regularly (several times a day).
-Filter (see the note below about wearing gloves).
-Keep the fatty ointment in a sealed glass jar, in a dark & cool place.

Note: you'd better handle the ointment wearing gloves (since the ointment is absorbed through the skin).

How to make organic soot ? Just place some lard in some aluminium foil to make a foil parcel. Place it in the ambers (or oven at 300°C or more) until the lard is completely grilled/burned (you should obtain some black organic soot).

How to use the ointment:

Witches used to spread it...
-over their temples
-under their armpits
-over their vagina
-just behind their ears
-over their neck
-over the interior part of their forearm
-over the left part of their stomach
-over their calves
-and under their sole (of the feet).

NEVER spread any on your forehead (risk of death).

I would suggest starting with only the temples & armpits (very suitable areas for transdermal absorption).

Note that the calves & sole are for producing a feeling of flight (I don't know about other areas specificities).

NOTE (!!) that there is a more elaborated preparation (and probably SAFER) for the ointment explained in castaneda's books (in "The Teachings of don Juan" or "A Separate Reality", I don't remember which one exactly)...

I never tried any ointment myself: I only tried 60 seeds orally, and as it didn't produce any hallucinations and was so damn unpleasant, then I just stopped experimenting with it, but many reliable books about shamanism and entheogens I read do claim that making an ointment is the safest way to go if one would want to get hallucinations from solanaceae plants, and they say that oral use is just too risky (the ointment is the shaman & witches method so I just trust it).

Always keep in mind that there is no "safe" datura trip. This is a VERY dangerous drug. Be careful.
HAVE a trip-sitter !!! (you won't be able to control yourself)




WHY IS THERE SO BIG NOISE ABOUT DATURA USE ?

1)because the effect is more like toxik than hallucinogen, it's not much enjoyable (you feel sick, no ophoria effect at all, you vomit, your eyes can't see clear so you can't read anything even if it's writen in big letters, your mouth is completely dry, so you drink a lot but you can't piss anymore, your body temperature rise and you may get feverish (!), so does your blood pressure, your heart rythm become faster, your in complete delirium so you don't understand anything of what's happening around you, you don't realize that your hallucinations aren't real so you don't even have fun hallucinating because you don't know you are, and you almost don't remember your night on the next day,
the only "fun" thing is that later on you can remember "well last night I was really fucked up and I had real hallucinations, I don't remember much of all this, I didn't have fun doing this, but now it's really fun to think about how fucked up I was".
Also unpleasant because the delirium state can last for 3 days (yess with dry mouth and inability to piss...) and then there is an additional period of 3days-1 week you cannot see clear (you can't read) because your eyes are still fucked up.
Note that regular use both fuck up your mental and your body (serious consequences!)...and by the way, there have been a few people who stayed stuck into their trip for month after one single use.

My point is that datura isn't for fun, it has nothing to do with a recreational drug, the only use of interest could be visionary shamanic practices, and even in this case I would rather take something else (shrooms, peyote, salvia are both much more fun and much more safe than datura)

2) because there have been GREAT amount of death with this plant for many reasons:

-dosages can vary greatly from one people to another . for instance, one would need 30 seeds to hallucinate while another would need around 150-200 ! if someone (who would need no more than 30) had no experience with datura and was told by a friend (who successfully used 200) that 200 is the right dose, he may probably die (overdose from heart attack or overheating)
You have to start with low dose (30 seeds at first) and increase progressively (wait 3 days between each trials).

-plant potency can vary greatly from one plant to another, depending on the growing location, the subspecies, the harvesting period...for instance, green fruits of solanaceaes are said to be much much more potent than mature fruits... (so even if you know your dose with one plant you've tried, it can be different with another one)

-different parts of one single plant can have very different potency. Better use seeds because their potency doesn't vary much.

-because people don't know that shamans and witches who used datura for centuries all used to take datura transdermally (absorption through the skin in form of a fat cream) and almost never used it orally
Why? because datura contains two different active drugs: scopolamine and atropine. Both are really toxic substances but scopolamine is the one you want (more hallucinogenic and less side effects than atropine).
The problem is that if you use datura orally, you get both in your body which isn't good for you. The trick is that only scopolamine will pass through the skin (atropine cannot) which is why shamans & witches mostly used datura as a transdermal ointment.

-because people are so delirious that they kill themselves making stupid things (like swimming in such a delirious state, or passing through a window...)

-because people arent' aware of drug interactions and contraindications:
you must never use datra if any cardiovascular troubles, if glaucoma, if on antidepressants.
you must never mix datura with any medecine or drugs (even weed is said to be a bad idea !) because this could rise your blood pressure so hard that you would die.

-also note that doing any physically exhausting activity (such as dancing at a rave) can be dangerous on datura (risk of rise in cardiac rythm(& blood pressure) or rise in body temperature wich are both already much higher than normal when you're on datura)

So : read ALL informations on erowid.org before considering about trying such a dangerous toxic plant!!!

Post Quality Evaluations:
thks alot very useful post!!!
verrry helpful post, thank you very much. this post could save lives
This is harm reduction at it's absolute finest, this gives the dangers, and much much more inforamtion than any other post I have read anywhere.
Fantastic informative post. Have researched quite extensively and this post is amongst the best out there.
I miss good references but these are at least very important things to factor into consideration.

Last edited by genaro; 30-01-2006 at 15:53.

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