Hallucinations from sleep deprivation?

[RealGanjaMan]

Shit man...

Has swiy ever experienced considerably intense hallucinations from sleep deprivation?

SWIM has (unfortunatly) experienced sleep deprivation plenty of times, but the hallucinations usually are just flickers out of the corner of his eyesight, brief flashes of light that arn't there, etc. Well, this time, SWIM is experiencing some pretty intense hallucinations considering the only substance he has ingested in the last 24 hrs was 10mg Add(which is a nothing dose, only enough to keep him awake).

Swim was gazing at a counter, and there was a bottle of shampoo on it. Gradually everything in the room (the counter, the walls, cieling, floor etc) started "breathing" (sort of like a less intense mushroom hallucination), except this shampoo bottle he was staring at. Then, as he kept gazing at the bottle, the rest of the room (everything except the damn bottle) began slowly 'zooming in'. Some other effects... he would see/hear a fly/bug fly buy him, but as soon as he would look at it, it would dissapear. Light seems to be always slowly changing and shifting around him.

So anyways... It seems very odd to swim. He would honestly compare it to a low-dose mushroom trip.

Oh yeah, I had I point to this thread.
Does anyone know what exactly causes these hallucinations from sleep deprivation?

I have a hard time believing that its only/mostly placebo. The only logical thing I can think of is maybe the brain needs sleep so bad that it just stops trying to make sense of its surroundings?

Reputation Comments on this post:

	I like this question, been researching this myself
	good subject that wasnt spoken about

[bewilderment]

Originally Posted by RealGanjaMan

The only logical thing I can think of is maybe the brain needs sleep so bad that it just stops trying to make sense of its surroundings?

yeah, basically you hit the nail on the head. I just found a quite informative article about sleep deprivation, found here: http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neur...b3/Ledoux.html

Here's a snippet about hallucinations:

The implications of this data seem to be fairly important in supporting the location of the I-function within the brain. The prefrontal cortex is active whenever a person is awake, no matter how little sleep they have had. Also, this area is active while dreaming. Since the individual is aware of him or herself during both of these instances, but is not aware during the stages of sleep when the prefrontal cortex is shut down, it seems logical that the I-function is located within this region. This indicates that the I-function is what is resting and regenerating during the first stage of sleep. It would be interesting to study prefrontal cortex activity while a person is conscious, but unaware of his or her actions, due to an influence such as drugs or alcohol. According to the results of the sleep deprivation studies little or no activity should be seen in the prefrontal cortex at anytime when the individual is unaware of his or herself.

One of the symptoms of prolonged sleep deprivation is hallucinations (10). This could also be related to the I-function since it is the system that integrates the input from all other areas of the brain. If the neurons composing the I-function become too taxed then the picture in the head that the I-function produces may be more dissimilar from reality than usual. The neurons, under pressure to continue functioning but unable to perform optimally, create an image useful enough for a person to see most of his or her surroundings. Metabolic activity in the prefrontal cortex can drop as much as eleven percent after a person has missed sleep for only twenty four hours (8). As a person loses more sleep or continues to receive less-than-adequate amounts of sleep the neurons become even more taxed and the I-function may begin to generate even less coherent images possibly resulting in temporary insanity.

I assume by "I-function" they simply mean self-awareness.

I used to sleep a few hours a week when I had chronic insomnia. I don't vividly recall hallucinations, but I was so out of it I probably wouldn't remember it much anyway. However, I did become delusional, paranoid, and began experiencing synesthesia. I was also not on any drugs during this time period aside from an antidepressant, but considering that I was acutely sleep-deprived on a consistent basis for about a year I doubt this had much of a role in the above symptoms. It did, however, contribute to my insomnia.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great post! That had all the info I needed!

[RealGanjaMan]

Originally Posted by bewilderment

yeah, basically you hit the nail on the head. I just found a quite informative article about sleep deprivation, found here: http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neur...b3/Ledoux.html

Here's a snippet about hallucinations:



I assume by "I-function" they simply mean self-awareness.

I used to sleep a few hours a week when I had chronic insomnia. I don't vividly recall hallucinations, but I was so out of it I probably wouldn't remember it much anyway. However, I did become delusional, paranoid, and began experiencing synesthesia. I was also not on any drugs during this time period aside from an antidepressant, but considering that I was acutely sleep-deprived on a consistent basis for about a year I doubt this had much of a role in the above symptoms. It did, however, contribute to my insomnia.

Thank you! That pretty much summed up everything I wanted to know. Yeah insomnia sucks, all my life I've had it on and off... and it really can make your life shitty at times. It did to me atleast.

-RGM

[adzket]

you need some pills from your doctor if you suffer badly with this they may even send you for a sleep study. i get it realy bador did could not switch brain off to relax and fall asleep. so over the last 4yrs have been on verious sleeping pills gradualy going up in strength as i become tolarent. i have a sleep study coming up soon as the doc recons there are few stronger pills left and those that are he is not willing to perscribe.

[RealGanjaMan]

Originally Posted by adzket

you need some pills from your doctor if you suffer badly with this they may even send you for a sleep study. i get it realy bador did could not switch brain off to relax and fall asleep. so over the last 4yrs have been on verious sleeping pills gradualy going up in strength as i become tolarent. i have a sleep study coming up soon as the doc recons there are few stronger pills left and those that are he is not willing to perscribe.

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to try and go about it naturally first, maybe try a couple different herbs etc... I'm not a fan of most prescription meds... but if the herbs don't work out I will definatly look into it.

[The Doors]

SWIM has problem sleeping to a certain extent, but no where as bad you. SWIM usually smokes a bowl or two of marijuana an hour before going to bed and he falls a sleep pretty much instantly. I'm pretty sure you considered it already but just giving my input.

[adzket]

Originally Posted by RealGanjaMan

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to try and go about it naturally first, maybe try a couple different herbs etc... I'm not a fan of most prescription meds... but if the herbs don't work out I will definatly look into it.

lavender oil on you pillow and in your bath at night can help if you want natural remadys.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for your sleeping aid advice! I'll let you know how the lavendar oil works.

[bewilderment]

Originally Posted by The Doors

SWIM has problem sleeping to a certain extent, but no where as bad you. SWIM usually smokes a bowl or two of marijuana an hour before going to bed and he falls a sleep pretty much instantly. I'm pretty sure you considered it already but just giving my input.

Marijuana tends to only work well for a few nights then loses effectiveness in terms of treating insomnia. Swim says it still works well if one hasn't been smoking lately though. She still usually smokes it consistently on a nightly basis though.

[IHrtHalucingens]

SWIM finds that no matter what if he smokes at all during the day, even one bowl upon waking up he can sleep at night, but if no marijuana is used all day he cannot get to sleep for many many hours, and the sleep he does get is terrible and unrefreshing. He smokes every day too and it works every time.

he doesnt like benzos for sleep as they always make him very groggy the next day and he ends up sleeping for 18 hours or something outrageous like that. And with a smaller dose he gets no effects, its one or the other with him. Not to mention the rapid tolerance build up.

Marijuana is the only "sleep med." that has ever worked effectively and consitantly for SWIM. he gets to sleep fast and sleeps very well and wakes up refreshed even after only a few hours of sleep.

[The Doors]

Originally Posted by IHrtHalucingens

SWIM finds that no matter what if he smokes at all during the day, even one bowl upon waking up he can sleep at night, but if no marijuana is used all day he cannot get to sleep for many many hours, and the sleep he does get is terrible and unrefreshing. He smokes every day too and it works every time.

he doesnt like benzos for sleep as they always make him very groggy the next day and he ends up sleeping for 18 hours or something outrageous like that. And with a smaller dose he gets no effects, its one or the other with him. Not to mention the rapid tolerance build up.

Marijuana is the only "sleep med." that has ever worked effectively and consitantly for SWIM. he gets to sleep fast and sleeps very well and wakes up refreshed even after only a few hours of sleep.

SWIM is pretty much in the same situation as you. He's been using marijuana on a daily basis for about a year now, and everytime he smokes, he sleeps very well at night and wakes up feeling refreshed. When SWIM doesn't smoke, it takes him forever to fall a sleep and wakes up feeling drained out and tired for the rest of the day, which is a pain in the ass when SWIM has to work or go to school. Nature takes care of us once again!

[adzket]

could this not be because swiy are addicted to canabis in some way as people offen find it hard to sleep when they no longer have a substance in them that there body has become used to functioning on (just a thought) i know no one realy thinks of them selfs as a canabis addict but i think thats because it is so acseptible for people to smoke draw nower days even if its every day. its got to be at least habbit forming or people would not do it all the time.

[IHrtHalucingens]

Absolutely. That definately has something to do with it, but not entirely as SWIM has quit for over a month before, clearing his system completely, and he still had this problem to an extent. Not quite as bad as while msoking but it was there. So as long as its possible for him to smoke he will because he knows he will feel better that way. He really feels that marijuana evens him out and makes him more normal than being sober.

[HandyMan81]

many times E.T had sleep deprivation, from clouds in the sky (in the living room) and ppl who arent really there. This is no joke, E.T one time talked with a friend of his for like 1 hour. The friend went to bed and like after 5 min. E.T saw him come down again, so asked if he could not sleep. Turns out that he wasn't even there talking to E.T. Was in bed all the time. E.T swears on everything he loves that he did not dream it, and in E.T's memory it still happened.

[Dogears]

I have experienced very mild auditory halucinations from being up for three days once.

[RealGanjaMan]

Originally Posted by adzket

lavender oil on you pillow and in your bath at night can help if you want natural remadys.

Thank you! That sounds very interesting, and I will try to find some lav asap.

And yeah, The Doors, SWIM is a weedsmoker and he agrees it definatly helps. Sometimes its not enough to do the job on its own though. Also, he finds it a rather expensive sleep medication, even though it is by far the most enjoyable

-RGM

[The Doors]

Originally Posted by RealGanjaMan

Thank you! That sounds very interesting, and I will try to find some lav asap.

And yeah, The Doors, SWIM is a weedsmoker and he agrees it definatly helps. Sometimes its not enough to do the job on its own though. Also, he finds it a rather expensive sleep medication, even though it is by far the most enjoyable

-RGM

It is SWIM just smoked about an hour ago. SWIM usually smokes 2-3hours before he goes to bed, thats when hes just smoking by himself. SWIM will be heading to bed shortly as if he feels he is going to burn out soon, he's had a long day at work.

[RealGanjaMan]

Originally Posted by The Doors

It is SWIM just smoked about an hour ago. SWIM usually smokes 2-3hours before he goes to bed, thats when hes just smoking by himself. SWIM will be heading to bed shortly as if he feels he is going to burn out soon, he's had a long day at work.

Yeah, the comedown definatly helps SWIM get to sleep alot more then the actual 'high'.
SWIM still hasn't managed to find any lavendar oil, but then again he hasn't looked very hard yet. Ill let ya know how it works for SWIM when he finds it.

-RGM

[psychedelaholic]

I quite often see stuff happening that isn't real out of the corner of my eye when I haven't slept for ages. Like I'll be in a lecture at uni after being up all night and will see the person next to me light up a cigarette or something then as soon as I look it goes back to normal. Sometimes see things moving across the table or whatever too. Normally happens if I have had a prolonged period of only getting a few hours of sleep a night or if I've been up for more than 36 hours or so.

[Fantasian]

SWIM is very pleased with himself, he has managed to go for 10 days without any opiate medication for his stomach! he has been using strong sedatives at the hospital which knock him out for the period he is in pain. SWIM found the withdrawals rough and could not sleep so was given diazepam and temazepam. SWIM's biggest problem now is that he's over the withdrawals but feels over stimulated all the time, like he's stretched out too far! No matter what SWIM tries he cannot sleep "hot bath etc" unless he takes a benzo. SWIM keeps getting mild stomach cramps throughout the night and day and some nausea. Is all this related to lack of sleep or do you guys think it might be linked to the benzo's?

any input is appriciated.

[Jatelka]

@ Fantasian: How frequently has SWIF been using the benzos and in what doses?

The fact that SWIY feels overstimulated and cannot sleep without the benzos, and also that he is getting abdo cramps/nausea suggests to SWIJ that there may be a degree of benzo withdrawal here (benzo withdrawal can result in increased autonomic activity, which accounts for the gastro side effects).

Does SWIF have a physician coordinating this withdrawal?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good convosation on Benzo's

[Fantasian]

SWIF has only used them for a week at the following dosages:

Thursday: Diazepam 10mg
Friday: Diazepam 10mg
Saturday: Temazepam 40mg
Sunday: Temazepam 20mg
Monday: Temazepam 20mg
Tuesday: STOMACH PAIN HIGH DOSE! Lorazepam + Diazepam causing near anesthesia.
Wednesday: None taken but sleep rediculously difficut.

SWIF used to occasionally use diazepam rectally to deal with the Abdominal pain but since then it's got much worse and requires hospitalization.But back then that was once per monthish

SWIF has no physician to talk to about withdrawal because both the pain specialist he consulted and his GP tell him that he could not possibly get withdrawal from opiates as he was using them for pain not recreational use. Which over the past 6 months is pretty correct. Apparently psychological and physical withdrawal cannot occur when taken for legitamate pain. SWIF tried to voice his concerns are symtoms but they put all these down to "Side effects."

Due to SWIF's constant fighting wit them they swiched him from the morphine onto the benzo's. See SWIF's other thread on "The lesser of two evils"

[IHrtHalucingens]

Sounds like SWIF needs to visit a new doctor. If his current doctor is ignoring his symptoms and complaints then a new doctor is definately in order. I hope someone can give you the help you need, sounds pretty painful.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good advice

[Fantasian]

It's not that painful with the current Drugs SWIF uses but his quality of life is rapidly decreasing with the continuous stomach cramps and nausea combined with lack of sleep.

SWIM has atually seen 3 doctors in total, the first said he had to just "deal" with the pain. He said that morphine and other such opioids decrease quality of life so much he would not prescribe them.

The second and third both said addiction cannot form with legitimate opiate usage for pain. The pain specialist im also current seeing agreed but as stated above changed the treatment to a knock out type effect with benzos.

Any alternative therapy people could list would be great.

[Jatelka]

Fantasian: Not really much to add, just a couple of thoughts.

1) Although benzos only taken for 1 week, SWIJ wonders whether the high dose Lorazepam/Diazepam on the final day was enough to push SWIY into withdrawal the next (when no benzos at all taken)

2) Has SWIY's pain specialist suggested agents such as Gabapentin or Amitryptiline? What about a pain management programme?

3) Physical withdrawal symptoms DO result from stopping therepeutic opiate use (she has seen it many times). SWIJ has looked over SWIF's other posts and thinks that this is likely to be the case.

4) IHH's suggestion about asking for a second opinion seems reasonable.

[Fantasian]

Originally Posted by jatelka

Fantasian: Not really much to add, just a couple of thoughts.

1) Although benzos only taken for 1 week, SWIJ wonders whether the high dose Lorazepam/Diazepam on the final day was enough to push SWIY into withdrawal the next (when no benzos at all taken)

Im really not sure, SWIF hopes that it wont last too long if this is the case, it's been a week already and SWIF is still suffering.

Originally Posted by jatelka

2) Has SWIY's pain specialist suggested agents such as Gabapentin or Amitryptiline? What about a pain management programme?
.

Never tried Gabapentin however SWIF has tried various dosages of amitriptyline, the only effects were that he felt drowsy the following mornings after taking at night, no effects on the pain

Originally Posted by jatelka

3) Physical withdrawal symptoms DO result from stopping therepeutic opiate use (she has seen it many times). SWIJ has looked over SWIF's other posts and thinks that this is likely to be the case.
.

SWIF agrees.

Originally Posted by jatelka

4) IHH's suggestion about asking for a second opinion seems reasonable.

SWIF has tried 4 doctors in total now 2 of them specialists, is it still worth changing doctor after doctor.

In SWIJ's oppinion which is a more suitable long term way of dealing with the severe pain, Large benzodiazpine dosages to knock out SWIM for 24 hours or large opiate dosages to relieve pain?