Am i addicted?+ questions on withdrawel...

[Fantasian]

It all started last August when i got appendictus(sp) was rushed into hospital and the nurse there gave me an injection of morphine, she injected it what i now know to be way too fast. Ill never forget it, that orgasm that raced up my my spine and lasted for nearly a whole minute. Followed by that warm, 'nothing can hurt me feeling'. I remember waking from the operation thinking, i am gonna search for this for the rest of my life.

After my operation i began to get abdominal pain which rapidly got worse, still noone knows today whatcauses it. It did however allow me to proceed down the opiate path. Firstly codeine, then tramadol, the hydrocodone, then morphine. Finally i had achieved my goal.

Diagnosis after diagnosis revealed that there seemed nothing wrong with my physically yet still i suffered from massive abdominal pain that had me crying on the floor in pain. Numerous times (i have lost count but over 50) i was rushed into hospital and given morphine IV.

A little more down the line where i am now, i am prescribed oral morphine to deal with the pain but its already too late. I feel sick all the time and i cant sleep and im always tired. I feel like i need that rush and the feeling. Im strong willed enough to not take the oral morphine but i long to be in hospital again. Ive faked the pain before i could do it again so easily and get it all so easily.

Im so lost on what to do, im a student and yet mylife already is being ripped from my grasp by drugs.

Then other times im not even sure i am addicted, i crave the feeling of a drug yes but not nesserily an opiate, id be quite happy to go to hospital and have a 100mg cyclizine injection which is an anti-emetic. It's almost like i crave being intoxicated with something particularly IV.

Thats my story....

Any words of wisdom are welcome and please help answering the few questions that follow.

1) Do the following symptoms sound like a withdrawel from opiates?
Headaches,
shaking (like shivering)
Inability to sleep
Craving of intoxication
constant sickness
tenseness and anxeity

2) How long does withdrawel last? and while on this topic where is the best place to obtain accurate information on withdrawel (i dont think this counts as a source if it does please dont post on here)

Reputation Comments on this post:

	touching personal account. tnx for sharing. good luck!
	good explanation
	You can do it mate, just find that balance, but again, be careful of the psycholocgically addictive stuff(ket) they can ...

[anabolictrio]

these symptoms could be a beginning of withdrawal...
anyway they won't last too long... about 3 or 4 days.

if these symptoms will last more than 3 or 4 days there's something different wrong. Maybe you are ill or you have a really strong psychological addiction.
Physical symptoms can't last more than 3 days.

It's four years that I use opiates (heroin or opium) once a week.
I have similiar symptoms every monday-thuesday and wednesday .
thursday i start feeling better.
friday i'm okay.
saturday and sunday i use opiates.

some benzos could help you going to sleep. repeat yourself that this shit won't last too much.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good advice and good account

[bandito]

It does sound in a way that you are addicted to intoxication rather than the opiates themselves.
Anabolictrio is right, the physical symptoms from opiate addiction only last 3-4 days, thats when they are at there worst. But a psychological addiction can create physical symptoms in my experience too... If the psychological draw is strong, which it certainly sounds like it is, you will get the feelings of extreme restlessness, anxiety, insomnia etc.

If you have made the connection in your mind that these feelings can be rid by intoxication then that is a definate psychological addiction. Unfortunately, that can last alot longer than 3-4 days in my own experience...

Reputation Comments on this post:

Wise knowledge and good advice

[hh339]

hmm, the above answers are very good and i would have to agree with them. however what you described sound very spectacular and may have more than one good answer. the first thing that comes to mind is fibromyalgy(dunno if the spelling is right), and the second thing is: damn, that sounds like HELL to live with. im very impressed you havent given up and are searching for an answer, good start! the "craving for intoxication" could simply be a "craving for feeling better" if you know what i mean. you definitly would answer the addiction question better yourself. the headache, angst etc really beats me, how well have they really examined you? any specialists etc? im really tired and need to get some sleep but in the morning i will call a friend of mine who is a doctor and ask him about this. he spoke about fibromyalgy a few weeks back and i just had a feeling some of the things match your problems. dont hold me to it though, im kind of rambling in my sleep. i will get back to you when i have spoken to him. by the way what is appendictus and how were you treated at the hospital? peace out...zzz..zzzzz

Reputation Comments on this post:

Nice advice, very helpful

[Fantasian]

THanks for the replies, im feeling the same symptoms again today and now it's been exactly 7 days. Im guessing it isnt the physical addiction. I do crave the intoxication of an IV drug still and i guess it could be phychological. I just wish i could talk to someone in confidance about it. It's such a difficult place to be in because i cant talk to my doctor about it in case he says i cant have the pain killers anymore and i have to suffer the indescribable pain. But i cant not speak to anyone or im gonna end up perminantly on opiates.

I was getting the pain prior to the opiates so i dont think thats related but i feel like the other stuff is.

Appendictus is an infected appendix, i just cant spell very well I had peritnitus(sp), this is where the appendix atually burst and makes the body go into toxic problems.

Thanks for all the replies so far they've helped alot but more replies would be welcome on what you guys feel like i can do about this phychological addiction, somehow it seems harder to conquor than the physical addiction.

hh339, i would greatly appriciate asking your doctor about it, i have had the following tests and they have come up clean:
CT SCAN
BARIUM ENIMA
BARIUM MEAL
CHEST XRAY
ABDOMINAL XRAY
COLONOSCOPY
ENDOSCOPY
FLEXABLE SIGMOIDOSCOPY

[anabolictrio]

7 days it's too much.
if you still have pain everywhere and you feel like that there should be something different wrong.
If you feel bad it's natural that you crave opiates for feeling better.
it could be many things...
maybe a heavy metal intoxication, allergies,celiac disease,arthtritis or bacteria.... it could be too many different things!
you really don't need to tell your doctor about morphine because it's clear that the problem is not withdrawel.
the only thing i can suggest you is to hang up and follow a detox organic diet.

[hh339]

hmm, he definitly could answer that one... only advice was: go see a specialist. the only problem is(i know): first you need to know what type of specialist you should go see. by the way: could it be that the doctors screwed something up? i have read quite often about doctors actually forgetting stuff inside the patient after they have stiched up, for example. geez...

[Fantasian]

Originally Posted by hh339

hmm, he definitly could answer that one... only advice was: go see a specialist. the only problem is(i know): first you need to know what type of specialist you should go see. by the way: could it be that the doctors screwed something up? i have read quite often about doctors actually forgetting stuff inside the patient after they have stiched up, for example. geez...

Ive seen a specalist and they're still not sure.

Since then i had a laperoptomy (where the cut you open to try to find something) with still no luck. I dont see how this pain could be so severe if it's phychological though.

[Fantasian]

Ok here is the latest to continue the story, SWIM told me this himself.

"I still have no diagnostic on my pain and continue to take morphine for medical reasons either IV at hospital or oramorph at home.

I then realised that im addicted to the opiates too as i suffer from physical and psychological withdrawal. Now in a normal addicts case this is less on an issue as they can (try to) stop taking all opiates and eventually rid the addiction. My problem is that i cannot do this, i take the morphine for my pain then suffer a week of withdrawal and then the pain repeats itself and as does the cycle. Is there a way out of this? I feel like my life is collapsing faster and faster.

[CrookedEye]

Swim doesn't know how many of you actually had opiate addictions, but it sure as hell can, and usually does, last for much longer than 3-4 days.. Sure you get through the worst part of the withdrawal of short acting opiates in about 3-5 days (roughly the amount of time it takes opiates to leave the system, depending on other factors as well, though), but you are by no means done with withdrawal in that short amount of time..

All the symptoms you describe are classic signs of addiction and withdrawal.. Night sweats, vomiting and pain in the stomach, shivers, cold sweats, diarrhea, insomnia, feeling exhausted, goosebumps, muscle spams, and more.. Swim was addicted to opiates for well over 7 years, and let him tell you, that it took him 2 months after taking the mircale drug Iboga even, to stop feeling the minor post acute withdrawal (although in this case, he was on methadone, which has a much longer halflife than shorter acting opiates).

That was not his first try at detoxing either.. He had been through 7+ detoxes (for short acting opiates before starting on methadone), all of which lasted well over 3-5 days, and when he left or was discharged, was usually still feeling sick, and in many cases didn't even wait to get home to score.. The longest he had went was after his first detox, where he held out for about 3 weeks, when he finally gave into the insomnia and stomach cramps, and just started using again..

The action of opiates on the smooth muscle in the stomach, as well as the tightening of the sphincter could cause some intestinal blockage, if you aren't using the bathroom regularly, which could add to any stomach problems.. As for your pain problems, you may have to live with the fact that you have to take meds everyday to function, and the good news is, that when an addict gets to a stable dose, they generally can maintain some level of comfort with the steady dose.. Tolerance does play a factor, but eventually if used properly, one should stabilize..

One could also look into alternative therapies, or use iboga once in awhile to keep one's tolerance in check, and help them keep the opiate consumption lower to minimize side effects..

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great information with supportive experience

[Fantasian]

Thanks alot for all your information so far CE,

So assuming i have to stay on opiates all my life,which im not sure im ready to accept. I had pain early this morning '5am' it's only reached 10:04am and already im feeling sick and crap. Im seeing the doctor at 11am to talk it over. Any last minute advice, will i have to take a dose every 4 hours?

Reputation Comments on this post:

good luck with you addiction bud! - rgm

[RealGanjaMan]

Sorry Fantasian,
I can't give you too much info on addiction, as I've never gone through an Opiate addiction myself. I would say (from seeing otheres go through it) that you are addicted (not terriably) and you should try to get some help quitting if you don't feel like you can do it on your own.


Good luck,
-RGM

[CrookedEye]

Originally Posted by Fantasian

Thanks alot for all your information so far CE,

So assuming i have to stay on opiates all my life,which im not sure im ready to accept. I had pain early this morning '5am' it's only reached 10:04am and already im feeling sick and crap. Im seeing the doctor at 11am to talk it over. Any last minute advice, will i have to take a dose every 4 hours?

Sorry if this is too late, but what I would do, is be honest with your doctor, and explain your concern of lifelong addiction, but also need to be free of the pain, and see what they suggest.. Finding a doctor that is understanding and sympathetic to your feelings is one of the keys to forming a plan for your pain management, while maintaining some sense of control... I am not sure that your pain is causes by some problem.. It could very well be that the pain you are experiencing is intensified, or agitated from the withdrawal.. Only way to really find out is to try to go through a detox, and stay clean for a couple months... If that is imposible, looking to a long term opiate, like methadone, where one dose a day is all that one needs to maintain some pain management, may be another option... Also, the detox with Iboga has been touted as a way to deal with many illnesses, but with the relatively new application of the drug, it hasn't been studied enough, with enough hard evidence, that it can help or cure things other than addiction.. Still, reports of remarkable phenomena, such as beating certain diseases, etc. has been reported.. WHatever happens, though, I hope the best for you!! Good Luck!

[Fantasian]

Again thanks for the replies so far, just keeping you guys in the loop.

I spoke to my GP about all the issues above etc and then spoke to a pain specialist. They argued that i will have to "get used to the withdrawal" from the morphine as they said no real addiction can develop if one is taking an opiate for pain as oppose to pleasure.

They did however offer me the alternative of having a massive dose of Lorazepam when i get the pain IV at hospital which will render me unconcious for 12 hours therefore i will experience no pain. This at first seems like a great option, pain relief without withdrawal but for my knowledge from here tells me that benzodiazapines might be worse than opiates for withdrawal.

Could a benzo addiction begin from taking large doses of benzo's once per week intrevenously?

Do you think this is a good option to take?

My GP also prescribed me with 30mg Diazepam rectal tubes, he says that they get into my blood stream within 2 minutes which isnt quite as fast as injection but still quite rapid. He told me to use one and if that doesnt work use another but if i need more then goto hospital.

Any further advice or knowledge on the matter would be great, thanks for all the replies so far.

Pete

[bandito]

I don't think your phsyically addicted to the opiates only. I think maybe really, your psychologically addicted to the rush of IV meds, especially morphine. I don't know you well enough to say all this for certain but from what you've told me here pete mate, thats just my general thoughts gathered from my own personaly experiences.

I also think your addicted to just being intoxicated, which isn't neccesarily bad given your pain situation. But if you say it's beginning to adversly effect your life, your education etc, then...

I read your other thread about temazepam and in this one you mentioned lorazepam and diazepam. Starting on the benzos in your particular state of mind could be very unwise. High doses of IV lorazepam might be not so bad short term as you probably won't be awake long enough to enjoy it much, and when you do wake up you probably wont remember much. But Rectal diazepam could be not so good as lots of people absolutely love the rush of IV diazepam. Benzodiazepines are one of the hardest addictions to rid aswell, psychologically and certainly physical. Long term use and improper withdrawl can be fatal...
Temazepam on a very irregular basis wont get you addicted physically, but it's very easy to fall inlove with the cosyness. Psychological addiciton isn't fatal obviously but can be far too simple to do, and not so simple to don't.

I guess you need to make some careful choices about managing your pain and keeping your life in order at the same time. I can't help you there though mate, because like i said i don't know you well enough. But i really hope you manage to find the balance.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great post with significant knowledge of Benzos

[CrookedEye]

Originally Posted by Fantasian

I spoke to my GP about all the issues above etc and then spoke to a pain specialist. They argued that i will have to "get used to the withdrawal" from the morphine as they said no real addiction can develop if one is taking an opiate for pain as oppose to pleasure.

This right here is utter bullshit, I am sorry to say.. The methadone clinic I went to was filled with middle class people who got injured and and started on an opiate regimen for pain.. Heck, I'd say possibly more than 50% of the patients were in this situation.. The thing is, with a stabilized regimen, access to the meds legally, and money to afford them, many wouldn't even bitch..

Benzo addiction can cause seizures and be very serious, but I am not sure of the addiction potential of a once a week dose.. I am also unsure of how Benzo's are supposed to help your pain, but then again I am not a doctor..

In my opinion, it sounds like your doctors are more concerned with getting you medicated and out of their hair, rather than cure your problem.. I'd suggest finding a second opinion, if possible, as they definitely do not understand how opiates work, or else they wouldn't have made the rediculous statement that you shouldn't get a habit if you only take it for pain..

It's not the reason you take the drug, that keeps you from addiction, it's the infrequent use, and short dose regimens, that do this.. With drugs, you don't have to have a reason to take them for them to do what they do.. They will do the same thing regardless of why you take them, with the exception of psychedelics (where set and setting, coupled with intent, can play a role in the quality of ones experience)..

(Off-Topic) BTW this is post 200 for me!! hehe

[Fantasian]

First of all thanks for the replies Bandito and CE, both helped alot.

Originally Posted by bandito

I don't think your phsyically addicted to the opiates only. I think maybe really, your psychologically addicted to the rush of IV meds, especially morphine. I don't know you well enough to say all this for certain but from what you've told me here pete mate, thats just my general thoughts gathered from my own personaly experiences.

I think this is true but only in the psychological sense, i dont go into hospital purely to satify my desires however i cant pretend i dont enjoy it when they take away my pain, it's almost like i bonus but then i dont see this as much of an issue

Originally Posted by bandito

I read your other thread about temazepam and in this one you mentioned lorazepam and diazepam. Starting on the benzos in your particular state of mind could be very unwise. High doses of IV lorazepam might be not so bad short term as you probably won't be awake long enough to enjoy it much, and when you do wake up you probably wont remember much. But Rectal diazepam could be not so good as lots of people absolutely love the rush of IV diazepam. Benzodiazepines are one of the hardest addictions to rid aswell, psychologically and certainly physical. Long term use and improper withdrawl can be fatal...
Temazepam on a very irregular basis wont get you addicted physically, but it's very easy to fall inlove with the cosyness. Psychological addiciton isn't fatal obviously but can be far too simple to do, and not so simple to don't.

When SWIM took Diazepam rectally he didnt experience much of a rush, he just fell asleep pretty quickly, SWIM has never found benzo's pleasurable except in that they cause sleep so he couldnt see himself developing much of a psychological addiction but both me and SWIM are worried about the physical side of it.

Could physcial Withdrawal develop from using very high doses of either diazepam or lorazepam once per week.

The temazepam for me isnt much of an issue i am only using it short term for sleep while i fight my opiate addiction.

Originally Posted by CE

In my opinion, it sounds like your doctors are more concerned with getting you medicated and out of their hair, rather than cure your problem.. I'd suggest finding a second opinion, if possible, as they definitely do not understand how opiates work, or else they wouldn't have made the rediculous statement that you shouldn't get a habit if you only take it for pain..

Yeh CE my doctors suck but i just keep looking. All everyone wants to do in the uk is pass you onto someone else.

[bandito]

Originally Posted by Fantasian

Could physcial Withdrawal develop from using very high doses of either diazepam or lorazepam once per week.

I'm pretty certain, almost sure, that high doses of either meds once per week wouldn't cause a physical addiction. Diazepam has a very long half life upto 200 hours so be a little careful. But please keep it in check, as with pain medication like CE said, addiction doesn't always happen because of taking something for pleasure. Many people get addicted to benzos not because they find them recreational, but because they find their use a medical neccesity whether for sleep, anxiety etc.

Originally Posted by Fantasian

Yeh CE my doctors suck but i just keep looking. All everyone wants to do in the uk is pass you onto someone else.

I hear what your saying there Pete...

[Ataraxia]

You are definitely addicted to opiates. The feeling that you get in those first 3-5 days that feels like you've been hit by a truck is just the beginning for me. That part of withdrawal hurts the most physically, but what it's leading up to can be more damaging. After withdrawal from heroin or morphine I could feel like shit for up to 3 or 4 weeks after my last fix. It's different from the body aches, sweating, nausea, etc. in that first haul of withdrawal, but I still would call it withdrawal.

That secondary withdrawal is exactly what you're experiencing... Not being able to sleep, anxiety, restless legs/arms, CRAVING, and just a general feeling of yuck. If you're someone who doesn't use everyday, you probably won't have much withdrawal after those first 3-5 days. But if you had as hefty of an opiate addiction as I did (or get morphine IV once a week on top of taking it orally during the week) you better believe you're going to feel it.

I've gone through those first few days of agony many many times, but the secondary withdrawal is what almost always caused the relapses. This is the reason for my 5 year long addiction to opiates. And it seemed like the longer I was using, there was a longer length of that withdrawal. I couldn't even imagine how bad it would be for someone who has been addicted for 10 or 20 years.

I later found out from my doctor that the medical reasoning behind this is within the endorphins in our brain. The opiates have been inside of us for so long creating that euphoria, acting kind of like a synthetic endorphin or serotonin. Since the brain had so much of this being pumped into it, it stops making enough of it on its own. If you have been on opiates for a while, your brain forgets that it needs to create more of these endorphins, and when you stop using the drug your brain isn't receiving the amount it needs. My doctor told me that it can sometimes take YEARS for your brain to start pumping out these chemicals at the same rate it did before using! For me personally, I start to feel better after a few weeks, but I can believe that it would take that long if you've been using long enough.

So you really need to get off of the opiates ASAP. The best way to get past those secondary withdrawals is to try to get your brain to pump out those endorphins naturally. Lots of sex, tons and tons of chocolate, and try to get some exercise even though moving is the last thing you want to do. If it weren't for these things and the hope from ayahuasca, I would probably still be using.

If the benzos are working for you, I would stick with those and ditch the morphine. But I would really recommend that you try to get to the bottom of your problem. Any kind of pain means that something is telling your brain that something is wrong. Taking all of these drugs are just masking it, and it could be something that could be serious down the road.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good post

[VincentVan]

I´ve read this thread with interest as this situation is pretty unusual, what I can tell you is that if you are asking to yourself if you are addicted then most probably you are, specially if ,as you write ,you know that a shot of your favourite substance would make you feel better.
My suggestion then is this: Why don´t you just treat it as an addiction?
Why don´t you just start on a treatment with decreasing doses of methadone for about 3 weeks until you painlessly get to 0.00 mg a day?
If you start to feel pains during this cure you could supplement it with non opium related pain killers.
I just got rid of a heavy H addiction (too many years of more or less constant use) with a three week treatment of decreasing doses of methadone
and now it´s nearly two months that I stopped taking anything at all.

Luckily Ataraxia´s doctor is totally wrong when he says that it could take years for your sympathic system to restart to produce the right amounts of endorphine and besides the very same neurological receptors are sensible also to other neurotransmitters that your brain will use to replace the missing endorphines. Let´s not make it even worse than what it is.
If you might be intrested, in the course of the last few years, I developed a good "methadone decreasing cure" following which in about 3 weeks you end up drinking a dose of pure water.
I followed it myself and I stopped using quite a few other times before this (hopefully) last, for periods ranging from a few days to nearly a month.
I think that if I relapsed so many times it was specially because it seemed so easy to give up again once that I understood how to correctly make use of the wonderful properties of methadone (and once that I had found a reliable black market source of the substance).

I understand that it´s not easy going from the stage when you are´nt even sure you´re an addict to the one in which you start a methadone treatment, but as I see it you have got nothing to loose and all to gain.
If your symptoms are due to opiate addiction then the meth cure will rid you of it, if they are not, then at least you will know that for sure.
Think about it.
Good luck.
VV.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good post
	well explained advice

[Fantasian]

Justa quick update to all, i started using benzo's for a while but i was told off and shouted at by the docs, they said for pain i should take a pain killer, they said withdrawal doesnt occur on people taking the opiates for "real" issues.

That said it hasnt been as bad as usual lately, only getting the pain every 2 weeks, using Buprenorphine and morphine to treat it, occasionally with a bit of Diazepam. Im looking into ketamine as a possible alternatives.

[VincentVan]

Dear Fantasian
I´m not sure I understand. Do you mean that you take morphine every second week? If that´s the case then you certainly don´t have to worry about getting addicted, and if you feel unconfortable with morphine you can always try other kind of analgesics of the same class and decide which one works best for you.
Benzodiazepines are not analgesics. It makes sense to use them only if you can´t sleep. Remember that benzodiazepines are powerful opioid agonists so it´s always better to avoid mixing the two things. (Try to google "opioid agonists / antagonists") .

As for what your doc said about not getting addicted if you take morphine for "real issues" that´s just what docs like to say not to admit how things really are. The truth is that some people "feel good", by which I mean not depressed not anxious and psycologically balanced only if they take opiates because of imbalances in the production of specific endogenous neurotransmitters and/or of specific neuroreceptors( mu,kappa, sigma,delta and probably others too).
Modern psychiatry and pharmacology has developed different means and substances to alter the activity and quantity of neurotransmitters and their action on their specific receptors. All the new prozac like "happiness pills" act on the levels of serotonin (or dopamine) and its ability to tie to its receptors.
However if we talk about an important class of neurotransmitters called enkephalines, that are the first endogenous opioid peptides , modern psychiatry is not willing to aknowledge that any imbalance can occur either in the secrection thereof or their receptors. Why ? Because if they would they should admit what has been common knowledge for centuries, namely that opioids have important psychotherapeutic functions and that a class of patients exists to whom they should be prescribed.
If in the course of his life one of such subjects will, for any reason, come to try morphine or other opioids, he would feel "folgorated". Suddenly , and for the first time in his life he would feel "fine". His depression , anxiety, neurosis etc. would temporarily be treated, and he would probably seek and crave these substances and the relief they provided from a "normal state" that in reality is mental suffering (since the medial forebrain bundle´s receptors don´t get fired by dopamine). According to current socio-medical ideology he would be an addict.
Some doctors however ,prefer to think that some people become addicts because of some fault in their character and some people don´t because they have purer souls.

Some intresting experiments have been made on mice to which had been altered the neurotransmitter/ receptor structure, particularly relatively to the nucleus accumbens and the brain´s pleasure centers.
If you want to read something about it try "The God gene" by Dean Hamer (Doubleday-Random House Publishing). Very intresting stuff.
VV.

"Truth for us is simply a collective name for verification processes"
(William James)

[VincentVan]

I have just re-read my last posting and I´ve been sorry to notice that it´s not specially clear and not everything I wrote can be readily understood. My fault.
The matter of the possibility of opioid receptor ligands and opioid artificial agonists and the purely ideological war against these compounds is however not very simple and quite long to explain if you have to start from the basics.

I wrote an e-mail to Alfa asking for permission to post some links to sites that explain these matter and these problematics much better than I would ever be able to do. As soon as he will have the time to answer to me I´ll be happy to post them here.(I think I will receive the ok since they are not commercial sites)
In the meantime I´m sure I´m not breaking any rule by suggesting a book that made some clamor 5 years ago when it came out, specially among neuropsychyatrists and psychosociologists (but written not only for them) : it´s called "The hedonistic imperative" by David Pearce.
His theories and this book are at the base of the so called "Abolitionist Society" , I think that you will find it pretty intresting.
VV.

" Hurry , hurry , use the new drug before it stops healing"
(Henry James)

[Fantasian]

Originally Posted by VincentVan

Dear Fantasian
I´m not sure I understand. Do you mean that you take morphine every second week? If that´s the case then you certainly don´t have to worry about getting addicted, and if you feel unconfortable with morphine you can always try other kind of analgesics of the same class and decide which one works best for you.
Benzodiazepines are not analgesics. It makes sense to use them only if you can´t sleep. Remember that benzodiazepines are powerful opioid agonists so it´s always better to avoid mixing the two things. (Try to google "opioid agonists / antagonists") .

Firstly thanks for your post the second part scientifically speaking about opioids in that way was most interesting and it's the first time ive really heard about that.

However i have to disagree with the first part, firstly to clarify, i take morphine or similar opiate substances on average about once per week, but i take a high dose, 20-40 mg IV Morphine for example. You say not to worry about addiction and yet i have experienced much of the unpleasent withdrawal symtoms from this frequency and intensity of opioid therapy. Due to the severe horrible symptoms of the withdrawal i wanted to try an alternative to opiates. Benzodiazepines are effective at killing pain in high dosages as they can literally knock a person out which is the type of doses im talking about. That i am commonly given in hospital. I am famililar with the effects of opioid agonist and antagonists.

Lately i am trying to find a more effective solution to using either of these classes of drugs hence the interest in dissassociatives like Ketamine.

Reputation Comments on this post:

intresting case. This guy´s situation seems even worse then mine

[VincentVan]

Dear Fantasian
Ok, now I understand . Of curse if the dose of benzodiazepines you take is strong enough to knock you into dreamworld then you would´nt experience any pain during the effect of the medication, but such an effect is better described as anaesthetic then analgesic. Are you really as desperate as that? Personally I would hate to be in a state that leave me totally unable to function as a person and to relate to other people, but of course I don´t know how bad you feel.
I find it hard to belive that you need to be anaesthetised and that you can´t find a specialist in pain therapy capable to design an appropriate therapy for your symptomathology. In the last years pain therapy has much improved with the discovery and introduction of new classes of analgesics several times stronger than even morphine (even if without its euphorizant and antidepressant effects) . I´m gonna ask about it to some doctor friend and in a couple of days I hope to be able to give you more specific informations.

Now I have a few questions for you: after the IV administration of a 20/40 mg dose of morphine chl. how many days it takes before you start experiencing the onset of what you reckon to be abstinence symptoms?
Also: do the pain precedes those symptoms ,follows them, or are they symultaneus?
And finally : have you ever cosidered the possibility of a psychosomatic nature for your problem?
Finally I would like to suggest you to take a look to an intresting book. It´s called "Relief without drugs" by Ainslie Meares, MD,DPM.- Collins-Fontana Books.-

Let me knowhow you cope. Your situation is quite intresting and pretty unusual.
I really wish you all the best.
VV.

"This is the patent age of new inventions,- For killing bodies and for saving souls."
(Lord Byron)

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Great advice and help.