help legal Research Chemicals in uk

[adzket]

hi guys i need some help. i have been looking into rcs for a while now and swim got some befor vendors found out most of the phenethylamines in pickle had been blanket baned by the gov in new laws. i have been looking to find which phenethylamines tryptamines and other rc's are still legal in the uk i am shur there has to be a few left to do some reserch on out there i have looked threw many posts and links on hear without much sucsess of finding the info i need. can anyone help with a difinative list or no somewhere i can find one. thanks for any help with this.

Reputation Comments on this post:

A very useful story, thanks for sharing

[Alfa]

http://search.opsi.gov.uk/search?q=m...ult_collection

[adzket]

thanks but i have tryed looking at this befor and there is so many things listed on hear as beeing illegal to find a small no which are not especialy when i dont understand alot of chemical spk would take me forever to reserch. does anyone have a few they could start me of on.

[Abrad]

I don't think anyone can give SWIY a clear answer on this. SWIM has heard fairly convincing argruments as to why methylone, AMT and the FLY/DFLY are not illegal. He would not, however want to have to rely on them in court.

Reputation Comments on this post:

useful info about M1, -Fly...

[Iggypoop]

No phens are legal, full stop. The beta ketones like methylone are legal, as are the furans (fly series). AMT and 5-meo-amt are also legal. There will be no definitive list, you will hear from ramblings on places like this which are legal and illegal.

The only other ways are to learn chemistry and read the misuse of drugs act to figure it out for yourself, or find a helpful chemist.

[adzket]

no worrys thats a help get me started looking in the right place. thanks.

[fastandbulbous]

Everything in PIHKAL is now illegal - the ones not covered by the phenethylamine modifications paragraph were specifically named.

Basically, just about anything derived from phenethylamine or amphetamine is illegal as they've done a pretty good job of covering all the variations. The furans (fly & dragonfly) derivatives are all legal at this present time, as are most of the beta-methoxy derivatives (other than BOD & BOB - the beta methoxy derivatives of 2C-D & 2C-B as they were specifically named because of their inclusion in PIHKAL). The beta-keto derivatives are also legal (eg methylone), but I very much doubt you'll see may of them appearing as the primary amine beta keto compounds have a nasty tendancy to dimerize through a condensation reaction eliminating water.

As someone said, your best bet is to learn the structural organic chemistry so you can judge each individual structure on its merits

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Top class info as usual ;)
	great post

[adzket]

swim was able to find this anyone with a beter knowlage of chemistry help me out a bit.

(d) any compound (not being methoxyphenamine or a compound for the time being specified in sub-paragraph (a) above) structurally derived from phenethylamine, an N-alkylphenethylamine, -methylphenethylamine, an N-alkyl--methylphenethylamine, -ethylphenethylamine, or an N-alkyl--ethylphenethylamine by substitution in the ring to any extent with alkyl, alkoxy, alkylenedioxy or halide substitutents, whether or not further substituted in the ring by one or more other univalent substitutents;

(e) any compound (not being a compound for the time being specified in Part II of this Schedule) structurally derived from fentanyl by modification in any of the following ways, that is to say -



(i) by replacement of the phenyl portion of the phenethyl group by any heteromonocycle whether or not further substituted in the heterocycle;

(ii) by substitution in the phenethyl group with alkyl, alkenyl, alkoxy, hydroxy, halogeno, haloalkyl, amino or nitro groups;

(iii) by substitution in the piperidine ring with alkyl or alkenyl groups;

(iv) by substitution in the aniline ring with alkyl, alkoxy, alkylenedioxy, halogeno or haloalkyl groups;

(v) by substitution at the 4-position of the piperidine ring with any alkoxycarbonyl or alkoxyalkyl or acyloxy group;

(vi) by replacement of the N-propionyl group by another acyl group;


(f) any compound (not being a compound for the time being specified in Part II of this Schedule) structurally derived from pethidine by modification in any of the following ways, that is to say -



(i) by replacement of the 1-methyl group by an acyl, alkyl whether or not unsaturated, benzyl or phenethyl group, whether or not further substituted;

(ii) by substitution in the piperidine ring with alkyl or alkenyl groups or with a propano bridge, whether or not further substituted;

(iii) by substitution in the 4-phenyl ring with alkyl, alkoxy, aryloxy, halogeno or haloalkyl groups;

(iv) by replacement of the 4-ethoxycarbonyl by any other alkoxycarbonyl or any alkoxyalkyl or acyloxy group;

(v) by formation of an N-oxide or of a quaternary base.



2. Any stereoisomeric form of a substance specified in paragraph 1 above.

3. Any ester or ether of a substance specified in paragraph 1 or 2 above.

4. Any salt of a substance specified in any of paragraphs 1 to 3 above.

5. Any preparation or other product containing a substance or product specified in any of paragraphs 1 to 4 above.


though all the phenthylamines are baned i think though not shure about 2ct2 or 2ce how about tryptamines not shure from above legislation. thanks

[quantumbrujo]

Looks like you got it adzket,now all you have to do is learn what all that means.You're on the right track there dude.

[adzket]

any one recomend any good books for someone starting out in chemistry that may help swim understand a bit beter? with out doing a chemistry B.o.S thanks

[turkeyphant]

Erowid has all the info you need, really. I've done my own extensive research about UK drug laws, and it seems that it's pretty much covered there. To summarise what's been said above:

1. Every single phenehtylamine in PiHKAL is now controlled either generally or specifically. You're completely out of luck there, especially as Shulgin was so very comprehensive.

2. All these tryptamines structures are out too:

3. The only things remaining are the tryptamines with alpha-methyl groups. This leaves you with AMT, 5-MeO-AMT, 4-MeO-AMT (?), 5-HO-AMT (?) and 4-HO-AMT (?). I haven't heard of sources for any of the last three though.

4. A substance that I'm pretty sure escapes the PEA ban is MDPV (1-(3,4-methylenedioxy-phenyl)-2-pyrrolidin-1-yl-pentan-1-one). Good luck finding a source for that at the moment though.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	very helpfull getting me started.
	intressting
	Helpful, clarifying advice.

[turkeyphant]

As for textbooks, most undergraduate-level textbooks would be okay. To be honest, you'll get by with a decent A-Level book and access to google. However, there are much more effective ways to learn and actually know what you're talking about.

Of course, if you don't have them, order your copies of TiHKAL and PiHKAL at once.

[adzket]

thanks for that turkeyphant at least its give me a starting point i can work from and swim can get a-level books from there collage liberey. and get some knowlage with out going to the trouble of siging up to a chemistry course. as this is more of a hobby for swim than a filed which he would consider working in.

[fastandbulbous]

4. A substance that I'm pretty sure escapes the PEA ban is MDPV (1-(3,4-methylenedioxy-phenyl)-2-pyrrolidin-1-yl-pentan-1-one). Good luck finding a source for that at the moment though.

That's because MDPV contains an alpha-propyl group and the MoDA paragraph only covers alpha substitution by methyl or ethyl groups

[Equality]

I found this list, Is methylone in here ?

1) Allyl(alpha -methyl-3,4-methylenedioxyphenethyl)amine
2) 2-amino-1-(2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylphenyl)ethanol
3) 2-amino-1-(3,4-dimethoxyphenyl)ethanol
4) Benzyl(alpha -methyl-3,4-methylenedioxyphenethyl)amine
5) 4-bromo-beta ,2,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine
6) N-(4-sec-butylthio-2,5-dimethoxyphenethyl)hydroxylamine
7) Cyclopropylmethyl(alpha -methyl-3,4-methylenedioxyphenethyl)amine
8) 2-(4,7-dimethoxy-2,3-dihydro-1H-indan-5-yl)ethylamine
9) 2-(4,7-dimethoxy-2,3-dihydro-1H-indan-5-yl)-1-methylethylamine
10) 2-(2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylphenyl)cyclopropylamine
11) 2-(1,4-dimethoxy-2-naphthyl)ethylamine
12) 2-(1,4-dimethoxy-2-naphthyl)-1-methylethylamine
13) N-(2,5-dimethoxy-4-propylthiophenthyl)hydoxylamine
14) 2-(1,4-dimethoxy-5,6,7,8-tetrahydro-2-naphthyl)ethylamine
15) 2-(1,4-dimethoxy-5,6,7,8-tetrahydro-2-naphthyl)-1-methylethylamine
16) alpha ,alpha -dimethyl-3,4-methylenedioxyphenethylamine
17) alpha ,alpha -dimethyl-3,4-methylenedioxyphenethyl(methyl)amine
18) Dimethyl(alpha -methyl-3,4-methylenedioxyphenethyl)amine
19) N-(4-ethylthio-2,5-dimethoxyphenethyl)hydroxylamine
20) 4-iodo-2,5-dimethoxy-alpha -methylphenethyl(dimethyl)amine
21) 2-(1,4-methano-5,8-dimethoxy-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-6-naphthyl)ethylamine
22) 2-(1,4-methano-5,8-dimethoxy-1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-6-naphthyl)-1-methylethylamine
23) 2-(5-methoxy-2,2-dimethyl-2,3-dihydrobenzo[b]furan-6-yl)-1-methylethylamine
24) 2-methoxyethyl(alpha -methyl-3,4-methylenedioxyphenethyl)amine
25) 2-(5-methoxy-2-methyl-2,3-dihydrobenzo[b]furan-6-yl)-1-methylethylamine
26) beta -methoxy-3,4-methylenedioxyphenethylamine
27) 1-(3,4-methylenedioxybenzyl)butyl(ethyl)amine
28) 1-(3,4-methylenedioxybenzyl)butyl(methyl)amine
29) 2-(alpha -methyl-3,4-methylenedioxyphenethylamino)ethanol
30) alpha -methyl-3,4-methylenedioxyphenethyl(prop-2-ynyl)amine
31) N-methyl-N-(a -methyl-3,4-methylenedioxyphenethyl)hydroxylamine
32) O-methyl-N-(a -methyl-3,4-methylenedioxyphenethyl)hydroxylamine
33) beta ,3,4,5-tetramethoxyphenethylamine
34) beta ,2,5-trimethoxy-4-methylphenethylamine
35) alpha -methyl-4-(methylthio)phenethylamine (also known as 4-Methylthio amphetamine)
36) alpha -methylphenethylhydroxylamine (also known as N-hydroxyamphetamine)

[fatal]

the beta,beta dideutero phenethylamines should slip through the wording of the MODA. it appears from PiHKAL(#51) that it's effects differ very little from their non-deuterated analogues.

Originally Posted by Shulgin

it is reasonable to assume that the human body handles these materials in the same manner...

also relevant is the commentary in PiHKAL #50.

[Equality]

Erowid claims methylone is illegal..?

[tre2005be]

well swim knows sites that the only rc that they will sell to the uk is methylone, so swim is guessing that it probably is legal in the uk.

edit
just checked on the wikipedia site and it says that methylone is a class a drug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylone

[Equality]

Hmm is there someone with a definative answer to this? Wiki says its an a class drug, but its not in the list, Erowid also says its illegal but remains a bit vague..

[fatal]

if its not in the list and no clause covers it its legal. im willing to trust the opinion of others here. why? because i dont live there... thats why. thusly if you ask me its legal. and i would defy the authorities to prove it was not so.

[turkeyphant]

SWIM would not risk the naive assumption that methylone is legal. Not being in PiHKAL gives it a head start, but SWIM suspects there are strong arguments that could be used against it.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very nice

[Micklemouse]

Originally Posted by turkeyphant

SWIM would not risk the naive assumption that methylone is legal. Not being in PiHKAL gives it a head start, but SWIM suspects there are strong arguments that could be used against it.

Indeed. This debate (the legality or otherwise of methylone) is a long runner. A Certain Mouse has recently been in touch with a well respected vendor on this subject as the uncertainty has been bugging him for some time. This is the reply he got...

you may be aware of the fairly recent UK law amendments that outlawed
most of the known phenethylamine and tryptamine derivatives. This is why
I don't sell most materials to the UK. I would love to do it, but I
decided to respect the laws to full extent in order to protect this
business and my customers.

Methylone is somewhat of a special case. It does not seem clear whether
it is covered by the law or not. I have seen arguments for both views.
The Release group is working on settling this issue with the help of a
lawyer. I tried to contact them, but was not successful so far...

I hope this issue can be settled eventually, but right now, I decided to
rather err on the side of caution.

Methylone seems chemically similar enough to other compounds to warrant caution, & someone would need a lawyer with an outstanding understanding of both the MoDA & IUPAC on their side to make a good case if the worst came to the worst. That sort of representation doesn't come cheap, & funding for legal aid for a case such as that may be hard to obtain...

Fatal - just because something isn't specifically named doesn't necessarily mean it won't be covered. Our glorious leaders were clever enough to include what appears to be some quite comprehensive, although not exhaustive, 'catch-all' clauses in the legislation to cover their backs. The clauses that have been bandied around as potential loopholes have dubious relevance, as they refer to other classes of drugs, & are not to be relied on as being transferrable to the phen' & tryp' clauses.

Proceed with caution, kittlings!

[turkeyphant]

After a short communication, that certain vendor's reluctance so supply methylone to the UK was the main reason I thought it better to err on the side of caution too.

[dr ACE]

well swim knows 1 well known vendor who does supply: 2-methylamino-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-propan-1-one (methylone) to the U.K,and they don't supply other illegal more well know compounds.its a bit of a Grey area but swim reckons its more hassle than its worth for the 'law enforcement agency's' (powers that be)to test and confirm then proceed with prosecuting for a chemical which even many researcher's have little or no experience with my 2cents..

[turkeyphant]

Originally Posted by dr ACE

well swim knows 1 well known vendor who does supply: 2-methylamino-1-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)-propan-1-one (methylone) to the U.K,and they don't supply other illegal more well know compounds.

As it was such a grey area, it seems the vendor in question (assuming we are both referring to the same one) has performed a policy u-turn and is now happy to supply methylone to the UK. Whether or not this is because of some clarification of the law, I don't know.