SO angry

[Alicia]

Swia was talking to a close friend about drugs in general, and he reckons the world would be a better place without them, He said the government does its best to look out for people, After I was telling him REAL facts about substances like the medical benefits associated with cannabis he listened and said I was wrong, He also believes anyone who is caught with drugs should have there kids taken off them. To a certain extent I agree on that associated with certain substances, But Its one of these arguments we cant win on, he reckons people that smoke cannabis all end up with mental problems which is not true not everyone does anyway. He was also saying that the only reason why I stick up for it is because im a user, im biased, I can see his point but I was trying to tell the him facts which were true based on professional sources other than my mine. I nearly fell out with him in a big way he wouldn't listen to me. thing is thou he smokes weed as well. hes not against it like that, but in his view he says everyone would be better, he says he gets his facts from newspapers, (WHICH ARE WELL KNOWN TO FUCKING HYPE THINGS) Another argument. He said to me your entitled to your opinion just as he was, I accept that I just hate all the bullshit not everyone ends up on the street putting needles in there arms, some people have jobs and pay for there habit with out resorting to crime.

I said that if heroin was prescribed there be less crime, less risk to some extent as people would know what there getting.Dealers would no longer benefit. he also says it should be ok for family members to abandon there loved ones if they find out what there up too.
If any of this makes sense please do talk, Swim was so angry when she hung up. Then he said i can see your taking drugs over our friendship.

He wants me to call him back, but he says he not going to hear anymore about drugs from me.

[Nahbus]

Why would it be a better place for everyone? How many people benefit from drugs? In medicine alone, how many lives have been saved? I wonder how the world would be, though, without drugs. Drugs have helped with sorting peoples lives out, gaining insight on things one would normally never think about. How much creativity and inspiration come from drugs? Sure, there are bad sides to drugs, but there are bad sides to everything. If used properly, with education, drugs can be way more helpful than harmful. To the mind AND body.

[Nagognog2]

It must save a lot of wear and tear on this friend of yours' mind letting the government do all his thinking for him. Too bad this often becomes a permanent condition - use it, or lose it: Your mind.

[LowExpectations]

For better or for worse, drugs are not the government's responsibility. The government should never have any dominion over private, personal issues and personal choices. Family and friends are responsible for this aspect of your life. Only upon the moment you harm others (and NOT by causing them emotion stress but by phsyical harm, emotional stress is also a personal issue) should the government get involved.

Drug addiction itself is a result of a incomplete or unhealthy manifestation of social relationships to begin with...:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_park

The colony was built to examine Alexander's hypothesis that drug addiction is a myth and that continued drug use, particularly the use of heroin, is largely the product of unhappiness, not neurophysiological compulsion. Alexander hypothesized that the addiction to morphine commonly observed in laboratory rats exposed to it is attributable to the conditions in which they are normally kept, and not to any addictive property of the drug itself. Laboratory rats are "gregarious, curious and active creatures," Alexander told the Canadian Senate in 2001, but are isolated in cramped metal cages, then "subjected to surgical implantations in the hands of an eager (but seldom skillful) graduate student, followed by being tethered in a self-injection apparatus." Such experiments show only that "severely distressed animals, like severely distressed people, will relieve their distress pharmacologically if they can," he said. [1]
Better surroundings, Alexander believed, would reduce or eliminate the apparent dependence. To test his hypothesis, he built Rat Park. It was 200 times the square footage of a standard laboratory cage. There was companionship, with 16–20 rats of both sexes in residence, an abundance of food, empty tins for burrowing, balls and wheels for play, a special space for mating, shavings for nesting, and a private place for giving birth (Slater 2004). The results of the experiment appeared to support Alexander's hypothesis. The control group housed in the usual laboratory conditions consumed up to 20 times more morphine than the rats in Rat Park, and even those already addicted weaned themselves off the drug once moved there. They wanted to play, eat, and mate, Alexander concluded, not be anesthetized. "Nothing that we tried," he wrote, "instilled a strong appetite for morphine or produced anything that looked like addiction in rats that were housed in a reasonably normal environment." [2]

(And of course)

Alexander's research was part of the wider debate about how society should react to drug use, his hypothesis supporting the argument that social solutions, rather than medical or legal responses, are the best way to curb addictive behavior. However, his study was not well received by the mainstream scientific community. The two major biology journals Science and Nature rejected his paper, which eventually appeared in Pharmacology, Biochemistry and Behavior, a respectable but much smaller publication. Because of the paper's lukewarm reception, Simon Fraser University withdrew Rat Park's funding, and the experiment is now largely forgotten.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good post, very interesting information.
	interesting experiment

[Alicia]

When swim says 'government' was referring to the stupid drug propaganda which is incited, but then it is more or less the same thing.

Swim was very angry when she wrote the above, some it doesn't make any-sense to me, but i think everyone gets the idea thou

[klaatu]

Originally Posted by Alicia

He wants me to call him back, but he says he not going to hear anymore about drugs from me.

Sadly, some friends are complete *ssholes and will always be. It's up to you whether you keep him as a friend or not Alicia.

Klaatu

[Alicia]

Swim just wont talk about it with him anymore,its funny been friends for years it never came up. oh well ...

[LowExpectations]

Its the governments fault he thinks what he does. Otherwise criticism would be based on changes he sees in you, rather than future repurcussions.

[drew_2]

about the thing with family....swim has friends whos parents use drugs (mainly cannabis, occasionally some others) with their children (whom are over 18 i should add), and also make sure not to use in front of the younger ones...they have a very open and loving realationship...something that "normal"(parents against drugs, while kids still using) familes don't....hope this made some kind of sense. lol.. i guess what swims trying to say is drug use doesn't tear the family apart...its the beliefs, or cultures that do....

[Alfa]

Does the guy drink? You may want to run some numbers by him: yearly deaths, addiction treatment, hospitalisations, costs to society, etc. A comparison to the same factors relating to other drugs may be nice...

[Ant-Man]

Wow!! I just read a bunch of opinions which refered to everything from animal studies, social discrepancies, economic reprecusions and family structure. From what Alicia wrote, the gentalmen in question has concerns regarding drugs, or more specifically DRUG ABUSE. People who use ANY type of drug responsibly can adhere and co-exsist with society in a manner that does not disrupt. The people who use ANY type of drug and ABUSE it create the negative stigma, and more importantly actually DO cause some form of harm and/or disruption of everyday life. It is this disruption which catches the attention of "People" which developes into an overall negative, if not fearful preception of all DRUG USERS.
I know you guys are going to pick this apart, but try to understand where that man is coming from.
Trust me, SWIM enjoys using and sometime abusing his drug of choice, however he does so "Under the Radar"

[Alicia]

I know his view, i just wish he hear my view,I told him about alcohol Alfa as well.. which he went quiet on.. and had nothing to say to that but that was yesterday. The boyo was pretty upset after i had told him what had happened, We had a good time, and didn't call him back.

[raven3davis]

Is this person a significant other or just a friend? He sounds like a close minded person. If he really thinks you are choosing drugs over him then maybe you should reconsider your friendship with him. If drugs are that big of a deal to him then just dont talk about them or do them when you are around him. If you cant manage to do those two things then things probably just wont work.

[Alicia]

No just a close friend that smokes weed as well hes hasn't got a problem with them he just thinks there wrong swim smokes weed with him but doesn't do other things in front of him as she cannot be assed to hear it, he says thou that accepts me for who swim is. and not what she does

[hh339]

hmm, sounds like he doesnt really listen to what youre saying. thats called ignorance. you on the other hand seem to accept his point of view, even though you disagree. thats called being a humble person. you shouldnt really feel bad about it, but thats an easy thing to say i know. why not just ask him to explain why he thinks the way he does, and then ask him to back it up. the downside is it could make it even worse, but hey whos fault would that really be? do what you can the best way you can, and if he chooses to not be around, consider it his loss. he will probably come around anyway if he actually wants to be your friend. even though he doesnt agree at all with you, hopefully he will respect your character and you standing up for what you believe in. everyone is different, and thats a good thing over all. imagine the boredom of everyone thinking the exact same thoughts, doing the exact same things. that would be really sad.

[Nagognog2]

Or he will get injured and require narcotic analgesics and become hooked on them - like Rush Limbaugh. Howl about the evils of drug addiction, while asking all his friends and co-workers to call their doctors for a bottle of percocets.

Personally I'd figure that I did not wish to make a lifetime-project out of trying to wake him up - and move on to better lands.

[enquirewithin]

Elvis Presley wa supposed to have said that '"All drug addcits should be rounded up into a pen and shot" (or words to that effect). He died of the drugs his doctor prescribed him!

[Micklemouse]

Prescription burgers? Cool!

Alicia - personally I think it's actually quite special that you can have a close friend that you disagree about something so fundamental to SWiA's way of life and beliefs with, and shows a great deal of maturity in both your parts. People are saying he's closed minded - maybe he is on certain things (everybody has different opinions and beliefs, often borne from ignorance and upbringing), but to have those opinions and beliefs and still accept someone as a friend whose actions or beliefs contradict them shows a level of open-mindedness that is rare. Value this guy. Teach by example that someone (who obviously isn't you!) can live a healthy fulfilling life the way you want to, doing the things you want to do, and I can guarantee that at some point his curiosity will be piqued again. Meanwhile don't mention the subject again until he brings it up...

[Creeping Death]

If you're taught by your parents that drugs and users are bad, then thats what you think. Regardless of facts. It's like racism, really.

[bottlekop]

Originally Posted by Alfa

Does the guy drink? You may want to run some numbers by him: yearly deaths, addiction treatment, hospitalisations, costs to society, etc. A comparison to the same factors relating to other drugs may be nice...

that'll put a spanner in the works for most "anti-drug opiniated" people.

[bottlekop]

Originally Posted by Creeping Death

If you're taught by your parents that drugs and users are bad, then thats what you think. Regardless of facts. It's like racism, really.

that's true to an extent, and a good way to discribe predjudice against drug users... and remarkably sad to... . but people are often too afraid to have an opinoin of their own(they "cop out"/just quit thinking). it's so much easier just to flow with whatever mindless shit is the norm at that time than going for the truth of the matter. as a Sout African I have seen pleanty of the racism disease . it's terible. oh well, all you swiy's keep on... .

now what we need is the Martin Luther King or a Nelson Mandela of drugs to step up and win drug users some freedom.

[sunyata]

Originally Posted by Alicia

he says he gets his facts from newspapers,

Maybe you should recommend he read books by serious authors on the subject, they tend to balance these people out, or at least shut them up.
Whenever I get into a heavy legalization debate I pull Jonathan Otts Proemuim(from Pharmacotheon) out of my sleeve, he presents some statistic there that would be eye-opening to anti-drug people. You can read/print it for free here http://www.erowid.org/library/books_...acotheon.shtml

I know what it's like to get upset when ignorant people speak as though they knew something(and I'm sure I do that too), but I've found it best to just avoid such discussions unless the people I'm talking to are disposed to actually listening to what I have to say. This requires that I have to listen to them to and acknowledge their views as well, and thus we have real communication which is wonderful, unlike banging your head against a brick wall. Many times I've had to review my views in light of these kinds of discussion.

But if you like your friend it might be best to agree to not to talk about this particular subject, he might be a nice guy despite having semi-fascist views on drug policy.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great link

[Alicia]

Thank you everyone for all your comments, its been really helpful.
xx