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Ethnobotanicals Psychedelic plants, Iboga, Calea, Blue lotus, Ephedra, Sinicuichi, Betel nut, etc.

 
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  #1  
Old 07-05-2012, 21:27
Thirdedge Thirdedge is offline
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Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) has become available on the ethnobotanical market, both as a dried leaf and 25X extract. Here's what one vendor states about the tree:

Combretum quadrangulare is a small species of the family Combretaceae which can gro up to 10m high. It grows wildly or is specifically planted in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, and Thailand. Combretum is grown along the banks of rivers or arroyos. It's also found throughout Thailand especially in open, wet places. It is mainly smoked or chewed by the people of south Thailand since kratom is illegal in Laos, Thailand, and Myanmar. You rarely find it at the markets. It is mostly known locally. There is no supplier in the world offering Combretum, not even in origin countries, since farmers pick it for themselves.

Edit: If a mod thinks I need to edit this post to hide the vendor more let me know and I will, however googling the name of the plant unfortunately reveals the same. This is basically the only info we so far have on what may be a very interesting ethnobotanical so I have opted to leave my post as is for now unless advised otherwise.

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Nice find. Thanks for sharing. Interested in more info on this.
This Is Just As Bad As Giving The Source Away - A Simple Copy And Paste Can Give Away The Vendor
Interesting discovery
very interesting thread
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File Type: jpg combretumquadrangulare.jpg (57.6 KB, 16 views)

Last edited by MrG; 18-05-2013 at 08:56. Reason: see edit^
  #2  
Old 08-05-2012, 01:26
Karmageddon Karmageddon is offline
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

Very interesting. I'll keep an eye out for any reports on this. Anyone feel like being a guinea pig? I wonder if it possesses the same potential for addiction that kratom has. I can't find much info online at all.

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  #3  
Old 08-05-2012, 11:25
ianzombie ianzombie is offline
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

It gets little mention in the encyclopedia of psychoactive plants unfortunatly.
What the vendor says makes it sound like it is used as a substitute for kratom, but i wonder if it is only used for stimulating properties. I believe there was mention of it containing caffeine.

It would be interesting if it had similiar opiate qualitys to kratom, but ive not come across anything that confirms that.

Thanks for the post Thridedge.
  #4  
Old 12-01-2013, 23:47
rexall101 rexall101 is offline
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

SUPPOSEDLY got my hands on a 50:1 extract of Combretum. As recommended 10g went down the hatch on an empty stomach. Also was sent non-extract powder and leaf that I will sample. I will update in a few hours whether any notable effects are felt from oral ingestion.

rexall101 added 98 Minutes and 18 Seconds later...

Well I'm not sure if I have a high tolerance or something but I am not getting the desired effects.

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offering samples of drugs is no different from selling them here, it's not welcome and can get you banned

Last edited by MrG; 16-01-2013 at 07:16. Reason: Removal of rule-breaking statement.
  #5  
Old 13-01-2013, 00:05
ianzombie ianzombie is offline
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

Can you explain what the 'desired effects' were?
Stimulation, or something else?
Thanks

Also, can you describe what it looked like, was it a resin or powder.
And how did you take it?
  #6  
Old 13-01-2013, 00:23
rexall101 rexall101 is offline
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

The same as Kratom since it was labeled as a Kratom Alternative. I was hoping it would have a mildly stimulating (Maeng Da) or sedating (Bali) effect. 10 grams or powder was taken orally.
  #7  
Old 07-05-2013, 23:58
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

Ok, I have some of this on the way and am looking forward to trying. I asked my supplier for more info and this is what he had to say:

Combretum Quadrangulare ( Sakae Naa ).
Combretum quadrangulare is a small tree of the family Combretaceae which grows up to 10m high. The tree grows along the rivers, or in open and wet places in southeast Asia.

Combretum Quadrangulare is often used by the people as kratom substitute in South Thailand, Laos and Myanmar since kratom is banned there.

It is said that the Combretum Quadrangulare tree contain many precious and rare substances. In some parts of the world it is thought to help cure sexual diseases or to kill parasitic worms in the human body, and some indigenous people of southeast Asia believe the Combretum tree has the powers of white magic.

You rarely find it at the markets. It is mostly known locally. There are not so many supplier in the world who offering Combretum, not even in origin countries, since farmers pick it for themselves.

There is not some much more to tell than that it is selling very well, special there where kratom is banned. Beside in Europe we also sell it to USA and there it is a real hit. The use is as kratom; smoking or chewing. Combretum is not as kratom addictive. People told me that kratom is more a downer /stoned while Combretum gives a more active feeling.
  #8  
Old 08-05-2013, 02:04
Thirdedge Thirdedge is offline
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

Here is some further botanical and medicinal information from Medicinal Plants in Thailand Vol 1, by Promjit Saralamp. The mention of it being used to relieve muscular pain is interesting:

Combretum quadrangulare Kurz
COMBRETACEAE
Thai name : Sakae Naa

Tree, 5-10 m high; young branchlets acutely quadrangular or very narrowly quadrialate. Leaves simple, opposite, elliptic or obovate, 3-8 cm wide, 6-15 cm long; petiole acutely ridged. Inflorescence in terminal and axillary spike; flower small, yellowish white. Fruit dry, thinly quadrialate; seed brownish red, ellipsoid, 4-angled.

Seed: anthelmintic for roundworm, threadworm in children.
Preparation: grind 3 g of seeds, mix with egg, fry, take once when the stomach is empty.
Root: treatment of venereal diseases; anthelmintic.
Leaf: relieves muscular pain.
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File Type: png SakaeNaa.png (236.5 KB, 7 views)
  #9  
Old 08-05-2013, 02:21
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

Here is a study on a similar species mentioning anti-inflammatory effects.

Antinociceptive effect on mice of the hydroalcoholicfraction and (-) epicatechin obtained from Combretum leprosumMart & Eich.

http://www.scielo.br/pdf/bjmbr/v43n12/479.pdf
  #10  
Old 09-05-2013, 05:35
Thirdedge Thirdedge is offline
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

Package arrived this afternoon.

The product looks and smells and tastes quite similar to Kratom.

A good pinch of the dried leaves was chewed and held in mouth for 20 minutes. The saliva was swallowed. A mild head change but nothing that could not be explained by placebo.

After half an hour I inhale 3 X large cones through a waterpipe. Smoke tastes pretty neutral. The head change noted before becomes stronger but is very hard to explain.

I proceed with the days chores noticing I seem quite motivated to work, and rush through the rest of my chores, knocking them on the head. While motivated I seem a little foggy and make a few mistakes such as losing bits of paper in the office. After approx 30 minutes I have 2 cones of weed.

The weed high is altered. No paranoia, not even an inch. I continue with chores and finish for day.

All in all I am intrigued but effects are somewhat inconclusive at this low dosage. It does something, but I can,t put my finger on what exactly. I will proceed to test higher dosages in a day or two.

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Excellent addition to the forum.
Thank you so much for the report. Just learned of this plant and am very interested.
Wonderful information on a very mysterious topic. I love the various ROA

Last edited by MrG; 17-05-2013 at 08:07.
  #11  
Old 09-05-2013, 14:38
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

Thanks for the report, Thirdedge.
It would be great to hear how a tea worked.
I have a feeling that its probably used for its stimulant properties when it is said to be a kratom replacement, and not any opiate like effects.
  #12  
Old 15-05-2013, 22:37
Thirdedge Thirdedge is offline
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

Had a chance to try the tea yesterday. 5 grams of dried leaf were placed in a saucepan, 2 cups of boiling water were poured over the herb, the saucepan was then covered and the brew simmered for 15mins, strained and served with honey.

The smell of the simmering herb is very similar to Kratom. The taste of the brew also is the same as Kratom. I consider the possibility that I have been tricked and this is in fact Kratom labeled as Combretum, but I think that is unlikely.

After consuming slightly over half of the brew, I am hit with a strong wave. A feeling of dizziness comes over me, some might call it a rush but its not really euphoric. I suddenly feel nausea, so I go outside and smoke a cone of weed. This eliminates the nausea but I do not feel like drinking the rest of my cup of brew, so decide to wait and see what happens with the amount I have consumed (+/-3 gram).

Throughout the rest of the day the effect is certainly there but again I find it hard to describe. There are certainly stimulant properties, and I get a lot of chores knocked on the head, but its not a clear stimulant like Caffeine or Ephedra. I feel a little out. I am mildly inebriated and colors and contrast are enhanced, especially the sky.

Later when I do yoga I find I can really stretch for a long time without any pain or resistance noticed. Stretching feels really good.

I will look forward to testing higher doses although I am not too impressed with the taste., I will likely combine with Ginger next time to try and prevent any nausea.

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For your continued experimentation with this largely undocumented substance
Good, decent trip report. Excited to hear more about this substance
Thanks for sharing your experiences, especially on such a relatively unknown substance! Keep up the good work.
  #13  
Old 16-05-2013, 01:01
ianzombie ianzombie is offline
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

This is very interesting.
If possible, depending on how much you have to experiment with, it would be great to have some reports on different doses taken in different ways. (T&W, Tea, Smoked)

Are there any other drugs/ethnos that you could compare the effects to?

Thank you for your experience reports so far. Its great to have someone who is able to give their opinions based on actual experiments.
Maybe next time avoid all other drugs if possible.

*Two thumbs up*
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Old 23-05-2013, 23:03
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

Yesterday I made another 5 gram tea, this time using more water so its easier to drink.

I drank the tea slowly to avoid nausea. It worked.

The effects were more pronounced this time. The effects are quite similar to Kratom. They seem to last about 4-5 hrs. Stimulation and motivation (I went for a bike ride), body numbness, mild euphoria, enhanced vision without hallucinations and a general altered feeling.

Whether there is opiate like activity or not I am honestly not sure at this stage. I was dependent on Kratom for a couple of years, so am certainly familiar with its effects. One thing with Kratom is that every-time I used it the effect was a little different to the time before. Same with Combretum, each time a different effect.

No negative effects other than the mild nausea following consumption which is not so bad if the brew is drank slowly and not too strong. No hangover and no loss of co-ordination.

Interesting enough to keep experimenting with, I will try again in a few days.
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Old 23-05-2013, 23:22
jsscbliss jsscbliss is offline
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirdedge View Post
Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) has become available on the ethnobotanical market, both as a dried leaf and 25X extract. Here's what one vendor states about the tree:

Combretum quadrangulare is a small species of the family Combretaceae which can gro up to 10m high. It grows wildly or is specifically planted in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, and Thailand. Combretum is grown along the banks of rivers or arroyos. It's also found throughout Thailand especially in open, wet places. It is mainly smoked or chewed by the people of south Thailand since kratom is illegal in Laos, Thailand, and Myanmar. You rarely find it at the markets. It is mostly known locally. There is no supplier in the world offering Combretum, not even in origin countries, since farmers pick it for themselves.

Edit: If a mod thinks I need to edit this post to hide the vendor more let me know and I will, however googling the name of the plant unfortunately reveals the same. This is basically the only info we so far have on what may be a very interesting ethnobotanical so I have opted to leave my post as is for now unless advised otherwise.
I read a study on Combretum and what I remember about it is that there are over 700 species and that the roots of the plant were used by the Venda to expel a retained placenta. Tribes more north used the ash from burnt root to treat mental disorders. That's all I can remember about it but thanks for the info, I am going to look into it some.

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Interesting addition.
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Old 26-05-2013, 00:52
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

A 7 gram brew was consumed yesterday. Effects a little stronger and a light yucky feeling for the rest of day. Not nausea, but the taste lingering in the back of the throat or when burping.
Its not so bad drinking the stuff, about same as Kratom, but the feeling of the stuff digesting and the aftertaste is mildly unpleasant.

Still a good day, motivated and stimulated with good spirits.

Had 2 beers with a mate later on in the evening and felt as if I had had 6. Very zonked and heavy. Sleepy but had a shitty sleep later. Slightly disphoric this morning. Foggy.

I still can not say for sure if there is any opiate like effect happening with is plant. If there is I think it is milder than decent Kratom, and lasting no longer than 2-4 hours. What I do find very similar to Kratom is the other aspects like it being more stimulating in smaller doses and more sedative in larger doses. The motivation is very similar, the desire to knock things on the head that you have been procrastinating with. And the overall body feeling.

I wish I new more about its recreational use in SE Asia, what dosage / ROA are they using? How does the fresh leaf compare to the dried, shredded leaf?

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Thanks for your continued additions to this thread.
  #17  
Old 16-09-2013, 15:25
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

Hello everyone.
My browser just went back on me when I pressed back space so this post will be short and sweet :P

I agree with thirdedge, its VERY similar to Kratom, in effect and taste. I didn't find it as unpleasant as thirdedge, althought this could be due to method of consumption. I have ibs, and am in a good deal of pain a lot of the time, and I did notice some pain relief. Note, sometimes I would take Kratom with the skakae naa, and/or kanna powder smoked/insufflated which anti-depressant properties can potentiate antinociceptives or provide pain relief on its own.

Here's how I make my tea (it's delicious, all the ingredients are obviously not NECESSARY, but you really need them all to get it right)

Ingredients:
-~16oz water (any temp, tap or bottled)
-desired amount of Sakae Naa (I personally use about ~5g)
-8-12 oz Milk (Again, preference but I use whole milk for best taste)
-Either 4-6oz store bought chocolate milk OR chocolate syrup(use more milk if you use syrup)
-1/4 - 2/3 cup sugar (based on how sweet you like it, I recommend starting with 1/4, then after you make the whole thing, decide if it needs more. It will simply taste watered down if it does.)
-splash of vanilla
-dash of cinnamon
-a 32 oz or 44 oz gas station cup

Directions:
Heat 16-20oz of hot water until small bubbles start forming (~190-200 F for those using kitchen thermometers) I do not know if boiling can destroy alkaloids, which is why I never let it boil, then add Sakae Naa and lemon juice, continue heating, making sure it doesn't boil and continue for at least 20 minutes
(or until you have around 10-12 oz of water left, I think lol, I never measure. The main thing is that you have room to add AT LEAST as much milk as tea, if not more and not a ton of chocolate because there is sugar in there)

Allow to cool (ice bath/run water around pot/put in freezer if you want it to cool faster)
Strain, either use a doubled over white t shirt, or cheese cloth (or whatever you want, I use a doubled over shirt every time)
When cool enough to dip your finger in, add milk, 1/4 cup sugar, less chocolate than you think you need; then add a good amount, probably 1/4 tsp cinnamon and just a splash of vanilla (1/4-2/3 tsp if I had to guess) then stir/mix vigorously
Do a taste test, it will most likely need more sugar, maybe chocolate, and possibly any of the ingredients depending on your taste. I use this SAME recipe for Kratom tea, which is how I developed it.

I call it Kratom Chai tea, cuz that's what it taste like to me, but the chocolate just makes it that much better, I used to make it without it, and it's still quite good.

Feel free to ask any questions, sometimes my letters don't form the words my brain thought of

I'm getting 56 more grams today so I will post again with pics, more detailed experience reports (and with higher doses). I get it from a reliable source, and it is VERY economical, probably cheaper than coffee (which I can't drink cuz of IBS) and is steady energy with no crash, like Kratom.

Cheers!

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thanks for your experience report of this novel substance, as well as your consumption recipe! much appreciated/
Thanks so much for your experience with this ethno. Please keep us updated.
Thank you for sharing your experience!
  #18  
Old 08-01-2014, 06:01
echellemay echellemay is offline
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

Hiya,
I received an oz. of sakae naa but i'm REALLY afraid to try it.
I actually diddn't even want it since I couldn't find ANY information in my entire collection of herbs...very little online and I don't use the computer often. I wanted to try kratom, never have, but unfortuneatly the state I'm curently residing in has made it illegal already. The information I've seen posted has been helpful but I'm still wary. I have great respect for natural remedies which means I don't really wanna just Guinea pig myself without some sort of knowledge....I received a powder form so I'm thinking tea/drinking it...I'm not so sure about eating it like I've seen folks do with kratom. I'm also thinking less is gonna be way more. Once I get my courage up I'll report my findings.
~E

echellemay added 471 Minutes and 21 Seconds later...

Thirdedge stated...." Combretum Quadrangulare is often used by the people as

echellemay added 5 Minutes and 28 Seconds later...

That last post did not work the way I tried to write it....not a good sign.

ANYways I was trying to say I had read about it being used for "white magic" which thirdedge had previously stated....which to me can mean alot of things.

Mine is in powder form so I can't decide whether to just put it in juice and drink it or make a tea/strain it ect.... acckkk don't know. I think it's gonna either be great or very disapointing.
~E

Last edited by echellemay; 08-01-2014 at 06:01. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #19  
Old 27-01-2014, 20:37
samm2 samm2 is offline
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

Interesting the plant Cissus Quandrangularis is used as anti-inflammatory and to heal broken bones. Must be related as the latin name implies...or so I would think. Think this herb originated in India though as opposed to the Thailand region.
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Old 05-05-2014, 00:43
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Re: Combretum (Combretum quadrangulare) Possible Kratom substitute.

Hi there, folks! This is my very first post, as I am new to this site. I am also now trying Sakae Naa e-liquid for the first time with a brand new atomizer for my e-cigarette.
I will try to be as thorough as possible. I used a standard ce4 clearomizer. This model is a very common model and easy to find. I also used an 1100 mah ego style battery. The e-liquid I have is 50/50; made with half part 100x (100:1) Sakae Naa extract and half part vegetable glycerin. This makes the liquid 50x (50:1) potency.
It took a while to fill the clearomizer. It is a very thick e-juice. Once it was filled, I took dry drags on it for about a minute so the wicks were completely soaked with the liquid.
When taking the first drag, the first thought that popped in my head was "Delicious!". The flavor resembled a buttery tea. I have been casually puffing on this for about 15 minutes now. The effects are a bit euphoric. I have yet to feel the energy boost that is described, but there is a little bit of a feeling of well being. I have been diagnosed with emotional/mental disorders such as depression, so I am excited to experiment with this considering that I have read that this helps with mood. I will continue to puff on this and come back to finish this post in about a half an hour and report what happens.
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10 minutes later, my my stomach had a little pain and nausea. It was not that intense though. I puffed a little longer, and put it down. I then grabbed some cheesy crackers, and ate a few handfuls. After snaking, the stomach issues cleared.
The euphoria had grown. The effect was kind of like a couple of hits of marijuana. I have not smoked marijuana for about 3 months now, so I have tried this without anything else lingering in my system (except I did try Kanna e-liquid last night). This seems to be a slightly good alternative to marijuana, but it is not as strong. I also did not get nervous on Sakae Naa like I do on marijuana. I do not feel so much energy as I do euphoria. I will try to ingest some on a different day.
There you go. My first post. p

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