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Opiate addiction Support for coping with Opiate addiction and Opiate addiction treatment.

 
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  #1  
Old 03-05-2012, 00:02
scaredandalone scaredandalone is offline
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Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

Has any one else been "advised", It would be better to maintain on methadone, indefinately, for your families sake?
Although drug service in my area in the UK are improving,,(so they tell us), when I was first advised to find the amount that "holds" me,then maintain that dose. Good advice for the most part,as I was able to reject the chaos of street drugs and DID become beneficial. My problem is though I have been maintained on methadone for 13 yrs now. I strongly believe that if I had of known the consequences I would have fought for help with WD's many yrs ago. As it has turned out I have picked up heroin for weeks sometimes months at a time,safe in the knowledge I could smoke and when the money dried up suffer only the mildest of mild Wd's if any. Now having really had enough it has taken me 7 months for any one in drug services to agree either a home detox or talking about rehab. I have had to fight and I mean fight and jump through many hoops to prove my desire to quit. I understand that things at home should be safe for my family whilst I detox. I also appreciate funding is tight. But it really boils down to there attitudes to maintainence being so old fashioned. They still believe that every one should and can maintain on methadone for life. Hence a vid change to the services in my area are being turned on it's head right now, they maybe scrapping it altogether and starting again. Infact I am going to a meeting tomoro to discuss this issue (along with,other service user's and professionals,).
I would,like to know what owner's have experienced with maintainence,good or bad!
I understand the implications of WD's on family members but truely believe that in the long run,for me at least, Detox and abstinence will with out a doubt be a better option.
  #2  
Old 03-05-2012, 02:03
imyourlittlebare imyourlittlebare is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

1. The fact is those on methadone have a 90% chance of remaining sober year to year. Those who abstain have a 10% of remaining abstinent year to year.

2. Methadone helps keep one tolerant to opiates and therefore exponentially decreases the chances of dying from reusing and ODing which I believe is the major contributor of people dying from these drugs in addition to using the substance in another setting (my assumption for this statement that the individual using methadone is not engaging in other activities that could kill them. Even then, less of a chance than reusing and ODing according to my texts from 2005).

3. While a lot of people want that monkey off their back, many simply lose that mentality as time goes on leading to reuse.

I think it is something that should be considered very seriously. My argument would be that if methadone use has been successful that one should switch to suboxone as quickly as possible because there has been some evidence that methadone has unique and adverse cognitive effects compared to all other opiates. Right of the individual to do what they want but I read your post and couldn't help but just think of these facts which might guide policy. And its actually kinda a good thing in my eyes. If they are really trying to prevent one from stopping the medication treating the disorder, they are treating opiate addiction for what it is, a disease. One with diabetes or other afflictions cannot stop taking their medication without adverse effects and doctors will do the same thing for those people. So if anything, its indicative of the change in mentality. That its not a deficit in morality but a disease with environmental causes leading to life long changes that do not abate like diabetes.

1. http://www.mendeley.com/research/neu...eroin-abusers/
2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2067988/
3. Grilly, David. (2011) Drugs, Brain, and Behavior 6th edition. In reference to the lack of neuropsychological impairments of long-term opiate use other than methadone.
4. D'Amato, Rik Carl & Hartlage, Lawrence. Essentials of Neuropsycholoogical Assessment 2nd edition. Treatment Planning for Rehabilitation. Pg. 305 "Opiates have not been found to cause residual neuropsychological impairment. In an initial research study, Fields and Fullerton (1975) didn’t find evidence for neuropsychological impairment in a sample of heroin addicts. A more recent study by Rounsaville, Novelly, Kleber, and Jones
(1981) reported that heroin addicts who also were polydrug users had neuropsychological impairment. They reported that heroin addicts with
the most impairment tend to have a childhood history of hyperactivity and poor academic records. On the other hand, the same group of investigators
conducted a follow-up study using the same subjects and found that the sample of heroin users actually performed better than demographically
similar controls on neuropsychological tests (Rounsaville, Jones, Novelly, & Kleber, 1982). There has been little subsequent research on neuropsychological impairment in heroin addicts. One possibility is that Rounsaville et al. failed to adequately control for demographic variables in the 1981 study. In addition, it may be that heroin addicts, like professional boxers, are initially physiologically superior individuals and that even with a degree of neuropsychological impairment, they are more able than normal individuals." Evidence suggests there is no clear link between opiates and neuropsychological deficits with the exception of drugs which act atypically/dirty. Methadone is also an NMDA antagonist for example. Im curious to see what the research on buprenorphine is since it affects kappa opiate receptors in ways unlike other opiates (Suboxone.com is my source for that. And Meyer & Quenzer 2005).

5. Meyer & Quenzer, 2005. Psychopharmacology: Drugs, The brain, and Behavior. Regarding exponential increase in opiate tolerance, how methadone acts as a NMDA antagonist which might account for some of its effects on memory and accounts for the accepted 90/10% range when comparing forms of therapy for opiate addiction.

I appreciate the feedback. Happy to provide sources when asked. Typically, its from memory I retained a lot from my undergraduate years and even more in graduate studies. I cannot always cite although I try to and most times, it is from Meyer & Quenzer (2005) because I practically memorized that book thanks to my great mind and a great professor.

Post Quality Evaluations:
please provide a source for these facts
what adverse effects should this be? sources of any kind??

Last edited by imyourlittlebare; 22-05-2012 at 04:26. Reason: Negative reputation: did not source this correctly.
  #3  
Old 03-05-2012, 07:48
DocBrock DocBrock is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

I'm not entirely sure extended maintenance is a good plan for most. I can only speak from experience and have no statistics to back me up.
Methadone works. Short term. Break that acquisition cycle and new doors become unlocked. The part looking for the next fix is quiet, because it knows the next fix is coming.
The problem then is the user is habituated, but to a lesser evil. State detox falls short. Friends detox is good. It is cheaper to keep methadone going than admit someone in to a ward and work with them while they come off.
The help I get tapering Valium is non existent really. I missed 2mg yestarday and the damn WD's have set in.
Switch back to methadone/H and these withdrawals would lead me to go seek another high elsewhere. To stop the WD's and make me forget them. It is so easy to justify to yourself.
However, if a long maintenance program has allowed a family to stay loving together, a user to be a Mum or Dad who is there physically and mentally, a person to get out and about, re-esthablish or make new friends away from scoring, then so be it.
I'm split. I hate being dependant. I hate being an addict. I hate WD's. I'll ride them for my family though. The difference is, and this is a huge difference to me, circumstances.
I've never, nor have I ever known someone clean up without hope of a better future when clean, sober and straight in the head.
That is the part that seems missing. Working on that hope. In the UK, it does seem preferable in some areas to keep folk zonked rather than help them, whilst in others a more balanced approach is taken. Where I am, the keep 'em stoned mentality seems to rule. I don't like that rule.
Find hope, get clean, give the middle finger to at least one chem without falling for another.
  #4  
Old 03-05-2012, 11:33
scaredandalone scaredandalone is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

DocBrock I too hate addiction and yes methadone has made me function , love and integrate with non users, but at a lot lower level of emotion. I feel emotionally stunted. Yes maintainence short term,in my opinion,is a good idea. A life time though,I disagree with. I understand your point about disease,inyourlittlbare,but am very sceptical. Statistics are all well and good but I think me personally would much rather not know such a depressing,fact, that I stand such little chance of abstinence. Although some may be stronger than me and see it as a challenge,so another blud post
Me though I am going to show addiction the middle finger,as for abstinence, we'll see.
My point though, A seein should not be kept indefinately on a substance unless there is 100% proof they would die if not! Just my opinion though.
The UK do like to keep it's citizens stoned and mute,at least andys I live.
There's a fantastic Tracy Chapman song 'Talking about a revolution' that,s what my area is starting with a strong organisation that is asking for change, I don't know if it will make a better decision for addicts, but I AM HOPING.

Last edited by Alfa; 03-05-2012 at 22:16. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #5  
Old 03-05-2012, 11:54
knightsmith knightsmith is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

I'm working on getting off methadone myself, the more I read though, the more I find this "maintain" stance.

I think i've been on methadone between 5 and 7 years, the fact I can't even remember that now concerns me. I have been reduced 7 times, how many times do you think the doctor / counsellor made that decision? 0 times.

All reductions were decided by me, and am I supposed to be in charge or my own rehab? I keep hearing about this 80/script thing and it jut ticks me off.

I'm trying to decide if I should just go to rehab. I wish you luck, it just seems to me, the people I bump into who use methadone, the more I hear that "they" have made decisions on dosage reductions, and that from the doctor/counsellor side, it seems almost actionless?
  #6  
Old 03-05-2012, 12:30
scaredandalone scaredandalone is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

Knightsmith. This is what I mean I,have reduced many times but then had no help to actually detox. I feel let down This will be my first detox after 13 yrs off of methadone and am scared. I feel that after hearing so many say they have gone through Wd's many times and still are sighting opiate addiction,that I stand Way back in the sense of acheiving abstinence and feel very naive in thinking that I will win.

I WILL GIVE A GOOD TRY THOUGH.

And if I fail, I can chalk it down to experience.
  #7  
Old 03-05-2012, 13:27
ex-junkie ex-junkie is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

Methadone treats opiate withdrawal symptoms that reduce your quality of life. Therefore methadone is improving your quality of life. Nobody forces you to take methadone, therefore if you dislike it that much you should detox and abstain from using drugs.

Getting clean will not work if you continue to use drugs. It is not impossible. Plenty of people have gotten off of methadone and embraced sobriety. They are no better equipped than you or anybody else. You can do it too.
  #8  
Old 03-05-2012, 13:30
declan82 declan82 is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

i got mixed opinions on this,,,,im on 80mil ofd meth,,but i never taka it,,cause i was usin,,,but once i did get stable for a good while,,,and yes you can lead a normal live to a degree,,,it breaks the madness of runnin round the streets,,,then i decied ,,i wanna stop it,,,droped 50mil in 2 weeks,,,,and it fucked me rite up...lost all resolve,,,,i think it is personal choice...my best mate has been of meth for 8 years,,and swanswell the treatment provider are hounding him to come off it,,,but he has no intention of comin off it,,,he likes it,,,he leads a normal life,,kids,,mrss,,,house,,,football team,,,,i do believe some peeps make the mistake of,,,listenin to other folks sayin you not clean,,,,i saw it once in NA,,,how i look at it is like this,,,"""you woulden"t,,take a cructh of a cripple"""""so whatever keeps ya from the madness of runnin round
  #9  
Old 03-05-2012, 16:34
scaredandalone scaredandalone is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

STrue I was not forced to take methadone,but I was STRONGLY ADVISED.This was because I fell pregnant(which was a shock,as I was told I was unable to). The professionals 'who I completely trusted, advised me that I was to cease all street drugs go onto methadone and remain on a stable dose until 20 weeks,so as to reduce risks to my unborn child. Which is exactly what I did(my now 8yr old was vin healthy with no signs of WD'S). I had no information about the medicine and wholly trustees that once my baby was born,these professionals would help me on to the next stage,(detox). This did not happen,by the second week of my child's life,The same pro's upped my methadone to control pain that I was suffering as a result of a emergency c section. Once again if I'd have known then what I know bow I would have refused the,methadone and rode it out.
So actually where I was concerned I was not given another choice and had no knowledge to make an,informed responsible decision.

I have tried tapering,many times unsuccessfully and there is something called the 'baby P effect', which has harboured many mother's recovery. Where I live if you stop taking the script to try a detox by yourself social services inevitably get called in. Understandable I know,vid a very scardy thought for some one who has brought up in thw care shel I can,assure you. You may see these as excuses but they have been very real reasons for my choices and maintainence.

I have decided to play the game and jump through wher hoop that the done clinic has asked of me,and am now being offered discussions about detox,which I WILL BE DOING in the 6 weeks school holidays. I just wish the professionals had this much vested in me yrs ago when I asked for detox.

The 'Baby P effect'. Let me explain.
A few yrs ago a child was killed by his parents as a result of neglect and abuse. It transpired that the parents where well known to drug services and social services. They were both scripted for methadone and Baby P as the media called him had been visited by social services 60 times and had many many visited to the emergency room for broken bones and such. Yet this little innocent angel was left to fend for himself in the home of animals. He was only 3. The post mortem proved he had sustained so many abuse over the yrs that the agencies invoked would or should have had him removed a long,time before. The agencies especially the social service workers involved were held accountable and many lost there jobs.
Unfortunately service users that have children and are being treated with methadone have also been effected.
1,800 more foster families have been needed as a direct result of the 'Baby P effect'. Many service users have had to really fight for custody of their children because of paranoid social workers over think what's being said to them and act irrationally on the pretense of child protection(their own protection more like), leading to many kids loosing a parent/parents unnecessarily.
I. AM NOT slating any social workers,simply explaining that,It is not as easy as deciding to detox away from the drug treatment service that I am in.

As I said I have worked very hard,given months of negative heroin blood/ urine samples and researched lots to have my networked agree to give me a home detox or discuss rehab. I find it crazy though that some are made to go to rehab and I have to fight for my right to.

scaredandalone added 11 Minutes and 17 Seconds later...

Oh I didn't mention after being pregnant and maintaining a steady dose, in my 21st week I was advised to start slow reduction,which I did. I tapered down to 5mgs daily from I think around 45mgs. This as I said was the best for my baby IMO as she was born healthy without any signs of withdrawal. She was small though (6:5pounds). But I cannot definately say the small size was down to methadone.

Last edited by scaredandalone; 03-05-2012 at 16:34. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #10  
Old 03-05-2012, 18:04
east_of_eden east_of_eden is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

I saw this post yesterday and didn't have a lot of time so thought I'd wait to respond properly. I agree with ex-junkie here. It seems from the OP that you're angry (is that the right word?) or at least disappointed with the methadone clinic and look at the fact you've been on methadone for 13 years as something that is their fault or that they falsely led you to believe you had no other choice.

I just don't see this as the case. I am in the U.S., so granted, things may be different, but it comes down to the same thing, methadone can be an absolute life saver for certain people in hopeless active addiction that are unable to stabilize long enough on their own to find any sort of relief from the non-stop downward spiral of their addiction.

I definitely stopped to ponder your point regarding whether or not, given the fact early on, that you'd be on methadone for so many years, you would have fought harder to go through withdrawals without it. I have also been on methadone a long time (about 10 years) and I didn't think maintenance would mean this long when I started.

But at the same time, If I'm completely honest with myself, I don't think I could have stopped without the aid of methadone. If just the knowledge alone that you'd be on maintenance for many years was enough to kick without it, there wouldn't be such a dismal success rate of people getting AND staying clean on their own. I needed the help methadone provided for me and it is up to me to make the decision how long I need it and at what dosage. It's not like anyone has ever told me I could not lower my dose or said I must stay on it. People are free to choose how they use this recovery aid, but I don't expect the clinics themselves to tell people when to lower their dose, by how much, etc. (If they did, we'd be outraged that they were making us come off of it when we weren't ready!)

As for the lack of help you've received with access to rehab, I don't know what to say about that since we don't really have a lot of help with that either. Until the government decides to change their priorities on how they spend money on the "drug war" and stop spending so much on jails and offer more rehabilitation, I don't expect to have easy access to rehab whenever I want it. I've only been to rehab once and it was privately paid (and not cheap). There were some people there who had been sent from jail or who had been on a waiting list and finally gotten a free bed but we definitely have a problem with lack of funds for rehabs.

That is a bit of a different topic though. The main point is that people need to take responsibility for their own drug use and their own recovery and if they don't want to be on drugs, it is possible to get clean. Many people have done so.

And please don't take this in the wrong way. I do not mean this to be insulting to the OP or in any way hostile. I know tone doesn't always come through in text well, but like I said, I think this is an interesting topic and I wanted to take the time to respond.
  #11  
Old 03-05-2012, 21:12
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

I don't really understand what the issue here is??? I mean, I do...but I don't.

If you're allowed to make dose reductions just by asking for them, what's stopping you from just asking for a 10% dose reduction every other week? I can do this here on my methadone clinic (granted, like e_o_e, I'm in the USA). Now, I *was* discussing with my clinician (I think this is similar to your "drugs worker") that I was starting to seriously think about detoxing off of the clinic & that to do it "properly" (which is no more than 10% every 2 weeks), would take me pretty much exactly a year. She then made a "strong suggestion" that I make sure my psychiatric medications were stable before I start detoxing. But then immediately said that it would be fine to go down 6mg if I wanted. And I can always override her suggestion if I really feel that it would be in my best interest to drop a certain amount.

So, my suggestion would be, don't mention that you're "detoxing". Just say you want to try to lower your dose. Yeah, it's semantics/a word game, but fuck it, if it gets what you want, so be it.

Also, I understand that when you've finally quit illicit drug abuse, it can seem like a pain in the ass to still have to go to the clinic. But, if I read your post correctly, you've provided "months" of heroin-free drug screens. "Months", in the grand scheme of things, isn't a very long time, and I too would be concerned about you detoxing off too fast and/or too soon. Just don't try to rush things, because that can send you back quickly. I mean, I've been providing completely clean drug screens for "years", and finally feel like a proper & slow reduction is within my reach. Just make sure you have all your ducks in a row (your support system for your drug-free life, and that you've become accustomed to actually being in regular contact with the people in your support system, housing, financial security, etc etc) before you get too low on your dose.

For the person who dropped to 30mg from 80mg in two weeks & felt horrible & relapsed...um, no offense, but what on earth did you think would happen??! That's WAAAAY too fast of a reduction if someone plans to have any kind of success. Slow & steady wins this race, even though it will seem obnoxious towards the end.

But back to the OP. Is there anything stopping you from requesting a dose decrease every 2-4 weeks? If no, I'd just calculate whatever 10% of what my current dose is, ask to be decreased by that ( "Oh, I just thought I'd see what my lowest effective dose is; I'm fully prepared to go back up if this lower dose causes cravings" *bats eyelashes* ) and then do it again in 2-4 weeks. Sometimes it really is a matter of wordplay.

Here, detoxing facilities are 4-7 day programs; you won't even been in serious withdrawals from methadone until about day 4! It'd be good to taper your dose as low as you can before you look into a detoxing facility. People also seem to have decent results with getting to a low-ish dose of methadone (20mg or less - & from my experience, I really would recommend less) & then switching to Suboxone for a reasonably quick taper off of the Suboxone to get to no-opioids-in-my-system-at-all status.

I know all that probably isn't exactly the info you were looking for. On the other hand, it's important to be your own advocate when it comes to your health care, including any medications you take. Keep in mind as well that we learn new things all the time, and information that is easy for you to come by now, might not have even been known 13 years ago, 10 years ago, even 5 years ago.

~Kailey, who's dropping off the clinic the "sneaky way" herself...
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Old 03-05-2012, 21:28
Caitlin23 Caitlin23 is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

It does not matter where you live, methadone maintenance is a business. The clinics want to keep you on that crap and they want to keep you at a high dose so that you need it and you keep coming back. The cost of liquid methadone is very inexpensive for THEM and very expensive for US. I have seen terrible things come from mmt, like extreme weight gain, extreme lethargy, teeth falling out, women who didnt get their peroids for years, people acting and feeling like zombies. When you complain about these symptoms they will blame them on your past drug use even if that was years ago. Then you talk to others at the clinic with the exact same symptoms. Long term maintenance is no good for you physically or mentally. The clinics and the government keep promoting this idea that it is the 'safest' opiate. It isnt - no opiates are good to take habitually, but long term methadone maintenance is not the answer.
  #13  
Old 03-05-2012, 23:11
scaredandalone scaredandalone is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

I am sorry I don't think I'm explaining myself very well. I am on a slow taper now and will be doing a planned home detox in august with the help of my keyworker. My point is that maintainence has caused me in my opinion,to function but at a,lot lower more stunted emotionally state. I have had very irregular mensteral cycles and generally kept me down(emotionally). I am not trying to illude responsibility at all. It was me who chose heroin,me who chose to take the methadone and me who has maintained this treatment. I do take FULL responsibility for my actions,but also feel that the drug treatment service have been an enabler to maintainence. I wasn't saying that I had to ask permission to taper,I haven't my keyworker's(of which there has been many) has known about some of my self tapering and makes sure to tell me not to leave excess meds about so there isn't a quantity for me or my family to take or to sell. Once though I told a new keyworker of my tapering myself and she blew it all out of proportion I had to show her my locked box where I kept it( I only pick up my meds twice a week). She was flapping assuming that I would be so bloody stupid as to leave it around for children to drink.
Sorry going off course.
Maybe I am posting this in the wrong forum.
Maybe because I have come to the end of my tether with opiates that I am just trying to find some fight in me.
And maybe if I take all the blame my mind will explode with all the guilt piled on top of the already mountain of guilt that I carry with me on a daily basis. Guilt for hurting myself. Guilt for becoming a mother and unintentionally hurting the most precious thing in my life after all my baby girl should be able to be proud of her mom I am supposed to protect her not be the one hurting her with my demons.. GUILT for not becoming drug free sooner.
I still do think that there should be more ex addicts becoming keyworkers though. Theory is all well and good but reality is so much more significant.
I will end by saying the consensus may be that I should take more responsibility but I have many stories of the drug treatment services letting people down making inaccurate assumptions that have led to dyer consequences and refusing many home detoxes for reasons only known to themselves.
There have been so many good calls made also though and have made so much difference to many.
I am not trying to deter anyone from using such services they are invaluable, I am simply asking if others feel as though they have been enabled for far too long especially mothers in the UK.
And I did not take offence.
I hope I haven't shown any offence either.
Please do not let my ramblings deter you or loved ones from seeking treatment.
  #14  
Old 04-05-2012, 01:07
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

I think you explained your situation much better with your recent elaboration.

You know, I think our key workers might give us all this information...but they give it to us when we're first coming into treatment, when we're still all fucked up & crazy & can't even find our own asses with two hands.

It would be nice if they went over the info, say every year or so, know what I mean? My clinic just updated its Patient Handbook, and all we had to do is sign a piece of paper stating we got a copy of the new handbook. No one sat us down & went through it with us. True, we are grown-ups and need to take responsibility for ourselves, but on the other hand...they know damn well they are dealing with addicts, addicts who are still on drugs (though legitimately prescribed ones).

Now, I had a great counselor (who's now gone, of course), who actually DID go through the new handbook with me during one of our 1-on-1 sessions, but I know she's the exception, not the rule.

Anyway. I think I get your idea. They give you a bunch of info, and then it's too darn easy to just let time pass you by. I always mention this to people who say they want to get on MMT, especially when they are really young - it's too easy to get stuck on MMT, so make sure YOU keep on top of things to make sure you're continuing to move forward! Because yeah, it's not...it's not that the key workers don't CARE, but it's not a huge part of their agenda to get us OFF methadone.
*****

Try not to let the guilt get to you too much. Remember the past (lest we repeat the same mistakes), but don't DWELL on the past. You can't change it, you can only learn from it as you move forward. That shit will eat you alive & prevent you from growing as a human being! You mention the Mommy Guilt - have you considered a parents support group for (former) addicts? I know Mommy Guilt in particular can be pretty darn insidious & it can paralyze you if you let it.

I'm glad you are able to taper & detox, as I thought you were originally saying they were trying to give you a hard time about doing so. It's crazy, here it's next to impossible to get a doctor to help you home detox here off ANYTHING. You'll be lucky to get clonidine to help you, if they know you're an addict! The doc coulda been happily prescribing me oxycodone & hydromorphone until it was coming outta my ears, but let them know you're addicted to it, and you won't even get a Valium for trying to come off it at home! Into a detoxing facility they want ya! Oh, unless you're on methadone - then they "aren't equipped" for that kind of lengthier detox.

Anyway, I'm starting to babble because I'm tired. You've posted in the right forum, I think.

~Kailey
  #15  
Old 04-05-2012, 14:23
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredandalone View Post
I do take FULL responsibility for my actions,but also feel that the drug treatment service have been an enabler to maintainence.
This is because years of research show that people's health care outcomes are improved if they take methadone. It's just evidence-based science. Once you bring a child into the equation, then they couldn't give two shits about whether you're addicted to methadone or not. They just want to provide the treatment option that is scientifically proven to make you a better mother. No offence, but you would have been up shit creek if you maintained just using heroin and let's face it - that is what you would have done. After all, you took heroin on top of your methadone. Nuff said.

You do really need to take responsibility for the outcomes of your choices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredandalone View Post
She was flapping assuming that I would be so bloody stupid as to leave it around for children to drink.
This is only because it is a risk. It doesn't imply that you are stupid. Kids manage to get their way into all kinds of mischief and half the time it's not even due to neglect. Risk assessments require that harmful medications are questioned at the very least. This is not to torment you, but because there have been too many instances of children dying from consuming mum or dad's methadone. Just to let you know, risk assessments are required by law when working in these fields so don't hate on the person for doing their job. It's only done for accountability and safety purposes. Not to make you feel like you're stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredandalone View Post

And maybe if I take all the blame my mind will explode with all the guilt piled on top of the already mountain of guilt that I carry with me on a daily basis. Guilt for hurting myself. Guilt for becoming a mother and unintentionally hurting the most precious thing in my life after all my baby girl should be able to be proud of her mom I am supposed to protect her not be the one hurting her with my demons.. GUILT for not becoming drug free sooner.
Quit looking backwards. From now on you need to move forwards and upwards. No ifs or buts about it honey. Cut the bullshit because you can only ever give it your best try at any given opportunity. By the way, you're still young. Don't make the mistake of wasting your youth worrying about what could have beens, because you will end up being stagnant in your old age if you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredandalone View Post
I still do think that there should be more ex addicts becoming keyworkers though. Theory is all well and good but reality is so much more significant.
.
I'm an ex-addict. I too was on methadone when pregnant. I understand what it's like to feel pretty much every shit feeling that you've got going on right now but I refuse to let it get me down. I'm halfway through the studies required to be a registered nurse and a keyworker. It doesn't make me sympathise any more or any less with addicts because I see through the denial, the blame, and the rest of the usual bullshit. If anything, it makes me less sensitive because to get where I am today I busted my arse with determination, abstinence, and the drive to get my shit together for my son.

Addicts have that cognitive argument going on upstairs. You've really got to cut the crap in your mind and look at things with a black and white attitude, which goes like this:

-learn what your options are.
-decide what suits you best.
-choose the option that suits you best.
-stop worrying about what you can/can't do and work with what you have available to you.
-check whether or not you can find a pain and addiction specialist to see you through a home detox because they know their shit when it comes to opiates. GPs and NPs are notoriously bad at managing opiate addictions/maintenance. This is because they're affected by ideology and their upbringing. They also transfer their experiences with non-adherent clients onto clients who genuinely wanna do the right thing. There is no trust. It's not their fault though, after all; society doesn't trust opiate addicts. I can't see this changing anytime soon.

Such is life.

All you can do is fight your own battle and let go of the rest because that's just how society rolls man. Addicts are considered to be lowest class and the discrimination is ingrained and unlikely to change, because of power gradients, history, social attitudes, cultural values, so the best thing you can do for yourself is to get the fuck out of that scenario so you don't have to be subjected to such treatment anymore.

When you manage to get out; don't you ever look back.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Absolutely fantastic reply. Sensible, clearly-worded, simple suggestions to follow. Thanks for sharing from personal as well as professional experiences. :)
fabulous post, full on, straight forward, from the heart
  #16  
Old 05-05-2012, 14:12
knightsmith knightsmith is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

We're responsible for OUR OWN recovery, I feel my own clinic is too lapse, enabling us to "stay" on methadone without any positive steps. I feel theres no balance, like theres either too much pressure or not enough. I know personally I need a boot up my ass.

I;m not sure where to post these specific questions but they are relevant to topic. I've heard a few bad stories about rehab, can I hear some personal experiences from UK free rehab. Would I be constantly watching my back?

Also my friend told me about a study, showing there may be a link to brittle bone problems, from prolonged use of methadone 90ml for 8 years plus, I lost the link, has anyone else heard of this? she has access to various studious for her university work.
  #17  
Old 05-05-2012, 14:25
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by knightsmith View Post

Also my friend told me about a study, showing there may be a link to brittle bone problems, from prolonged use of methadone 90ml for 8 years plus, I lost the link, has anyone else heard of this? she has access to various studious for her university work.
I can see numerous links on my library one search. I have attached an article on one.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Decreased_bone_density_in_men_on_methadone.pdf (233.9 KB, 3 views)
  #18  
Old 07-05-2012, 02:12
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

All answers have been greatly received, thank you. I must say to exjunkie that was a thorough and heart felt post. To knightsmith you are right it is up to us to,tackle our own recovery. Kailey Elise I actually brought up your idea on talking through a person's options throughout MMT so that key workers and service users alike can fathom whether or not the patient is ready to begin recovery,so thank you again for all the answers.
After considering this thread I think that maintaining a person on,methadone has it's place,in society but a RECOVERY AGENDA should be easier to obtain and should be discussed thoroughly and maybe as regular as the medical reviews that the drugs services have to adhere to in my area (roughly 3 months),but brought up as suggestions not shoving it down a patients throat.
  #19  
Old 07-05-2012, 07:49
ex-junkie ex-junkie is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredandalone View Post
After considering this thread I think that maintaining a person on,methadone has it's place,in society but a RECOVERY AGENDA should be easier to obtain and should be discussed thoroughly and maybe as regular as the medical reviews that the drugs services have to adhere to in my area (roughly 3 months),but brought up as suggestions not shoving it down a patients throat.
This is exactly right.

Addiction and recovery is more or less a mental health issue post-detox; PAWS really needs to be considered/diagnosed more and managed differently. It's a completely separate type of mood & affective disorder, that features clinical manifestations of PTSD, depression, and anxiety. Therefore all addicts should have this incorporated into their recovery planning.

It should focus on goals and the addicts themselves should set deadlines and plan how they would like to achieve said goals. Let the clients themselves plan how they're going to get over the obstacles as they reach them and start building the skills required to cope before they get to it. One thing that would help enormously is learning to identify and use better coping mechanisms, for example.

There are flaws in the current system. For some reason the empathy does not translate across to our sickness and the understanding is fuck all.

One last thing, don't forget that you are all consumers in the health care scheme. If you're unhappy, PLEASE try to find a service that is a better match for your needs. When a health care professional can see your will and motivation, and you can give them recurring clean urines, they WILL attempt to go that extra mile for you because they won't have lost hope in you.

Last edited by ex-junkie; 07-05-2012 at 07:55.
  #20  
Old 07-05-2012, 15:06
scaredandalone scaredandalone is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

Absolutely I have had no mention of how to cope with PAWS from any one at 'drug care' my health care provider. Yet again it will be up to me to research the,best way to cope with this and self refer. The UK need to start recognising the long road that a patient has to walk after the initial withdrawals (physical pain) has been addressed. I have witnessed people still suffering low moods,self hate or self harming after a yr and sometimes longer.
That said I do think that a person owes it to themselves and their recovery,to find all the help they can throughout not just PAWS but the whole entire recovery!!!
  #21  
Old 09-05-2012, 23:58
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

Oh oh just as my opinions were changing about methadone services in the UK were changing I get a stark reminder of some patients reality.
I need to start this post by explaining that I have recently become a voluntary worker in an organisation that helps methadone users primarily,but other scripted drug users,to gain and sustain recovery. It also helps with recovering addicts with the practicality's of sustaining abstinence in way of training,employment,housing etc. I am really enjoying trying to help others on,this journey aswell as it helping me along my long road to recovery.
But I go back to my opening statement and opinion,I have in the short space of time involved with this org,witnessed accounts after accounts of women,in my area,being told that they "Really should stay on the same amount of done as not to upset your family dynamics". I have had a lady come and ask my advice on this just today stating that she had been on her meds since her initial visit to 'drug care' and keeps getting told that it would be detrimental to her family if she were to change dosage and in there opinion she is not in the best situation to detox,so will not start a tapered dose. She had been told that If she were to change dosage or detox by herself then social services would have to be informed.
Now don't get me wrong after just one meeting, I do not have all the facts,but surely that kind of hard faced administering could be negligible. I have arranged for my boss to dig deeper,but on the face of it,this kind of scenario does not seem uncommon. Has any one else found similar problems. Has any other parent been put off especially home or self detox so as not to upset their home life.
  #22  
Old 10-05-2012, 00:51
Apple800 Apple800 is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

I have a question for thoes of you on methadone...Is anyone being mantained on methadone in order to get off of other pain meds, not haroin. I did take methadone several years ago because my pain specialist at the time wanted me on it. He still gave me oxycodone for break through pain. I know that during that year, I never ran out of meds like I seem to do each month. I was drug tested at my last appointment which I am going to fail. I took some vicoden that I got from a friend, and I am not going to show for oxycotin or soma that I normally take because I was out. I was taking the vic so I didn't have wd's. I have never failed a drug test in 11 years so I have no idea if they will kick me out. I was thinking about seeing the mental health part of my insurance and get establish with a therapist so maybe they wont kick me out. Any ideas...
  #23  
Old 10-05-2012, 01:27
ex-junkie ex-junkie is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredandalone View Post
I have had a lady come and ask my advice on this just today stating that she had been on her meds since her initial visit to 'drug care' and keeps getting told that it would be detrimental to her family if she were to change dosage and in there opinion she is not in the best situation to detox,so will not start a tapered dose.
Be very careful in dealing with the subjective accounts that you hear from people who use this service. As a professional you need to be dealing with objective information. Firstly, if this lady is still using heroin then it will be detrimental to her family if she changes dosage or tries to detox. The objective measurement of this is of course ongoing failed drug tests and the presence of track marks.

If she has ongoing clean urines and nil track marks, then she has a case and you should follow it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredandalone View Post
She had been told that If she were to change dosage or detox by herself then social services would have to be informed.
This requires following up. If I were you, I'd liase with social services and ask them if this is correct. Get them to send you to criteria for mandatory reporting. You can find this information online also, but it might help to speak to somebody so that you can make a report of your own (against the professional who is threatening social services). If this has been said to the lady, the person who said it should be reported for abusing the power differential in treatment.

If you can find out the person's profession; doctor, social worker, nurse... there are boards in which you can report their professional misconduct and they have to go before a panel to explain themselves basically. Never think that you or anybody else has to put up with discriminatory crap in health care. If you're being abused in treatment; you do have a case under medical law/social work ethics/etc.

ex-junkie added 11 Minutes and 6 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple800 View Post
Any ideas...
It's up to doctor's discretion what happens next. There will be some form of policy and procedures that he is practicing by. It may very well be written that a failed drug test carries some form of 'punishment'. However, taking into consideration that you do not normally fail drug tests, he may just give you a stern warning and carry on with your treatment as normal.

We can't tell you how to deal with this.

In my experience, my pain/addiction specialist used to appreciate honesty; no matter how shit the truth was. This required being honest about drug use. There is no point lying about it and then having a urinalysis prove you lied. It makes you look like a twat to the doctor lol. You would be surprised how much doctors and medical staff get lied to in regards to drug testing, so if you're honest it will probably catch them by surprise lol. They may still 'punish' you, but you will then have 'honest' to add to what their opinion of you as a patient is and in the long run I think that this has more potential to improve your therapeutic relationship.

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You have been absolutely excellent in this thread. Hope you continue to stick around; your informed input is invaluable

Last edited by ex-junkie; 10-05-2012 at 01:27. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #24  
Old 10-05-2012, 18:51
scaredandalone scaredandalone is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

Apple: I absolutely agree with ex junkie, you need to be honest with who your key worker/practioner you have a remarkable track record with giving "clean" samples which should fall in your favor. Being open and honest and stating the reasons for using vicoden instead of the prescribed drug. Tell them exactly what you have done us and In My Opinion the professionals will take into consideration your honesty and track record,and hopefully realise that it was a one time slip up. In future though if you have ran out of the prescription,could you contact the prescriber and ask for help,prevention is better than cure. I'm not sure if you are able to do so in the but in the UK, a person can contact their key worker,stating their difficulties and as long as the patient had a good track record they more often than not they are helped. This is especially true if a patient is on methadone and has dropped their dose or what ever and the alternative would be street drugs,then obviously re,issuing the script is more appropriate.
I know I have babbled but IMHO Lei them know what you have done and the reasons why and if and I doubt it(IMO),if there is a punishment it would/should be mild. This is only an,opinion.Please do not take this as fact as I am in the UK and am only going on personal experience. Clocked.

scaredandalone added 9 Minutes and 22 Seconds later...

So sorry for all the typo's throughput my postings, I am accessing DF on my mobile phone and do not know how to turn off T9 I hope the jist of what I am saying is not getting lost.

Ex junkie I have taken on board all that you have said and have set up several appointments so I can delve deeper. I by no means take what this lady is saying on face value but you have given me pathways which I can use thank you.

Last edited by scaredandalone; 10-05-2012 at 18:51. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #25  
Old 12-05-2012, 02:37
Apple800 Apple800 is offline
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Re: Professionals brainwashing people to "maintain" for families benefits.WRONG!!!

I want to thank you all for your help with my questions on this forum. With the responces that I get along with being able to read what others are going through I feel so much better. If I get kick out from my Dr. office next month, stop taking my meds tomorrow, or continue to take them for the next ten years it's nice to have such a kind community to help me through...

I also have been able to make my meds streatch a little farther the last two nights because I have been occupied on this site...not watching TV and thinking about when I am going to take my next pill...Thanks again!

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