ADHD=bullshit condition?

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by co-incidence

Its a death sentence, not physically but for the whole life of this being and his personality, which is even worse than being dead.

I have to disagree with you. You can't look at ADD/ADHD conditions as either completely good or completely bad. They have their ups and downs, just like many other mental conditions such as bipolar disorder.

I'm sorry if you feel so badly about ADD, but you can't assume that everyone shares your evaluation.

[stoneinfocus]

Of course it has its positives, it could be an can be solely positive, it´s not even a disorder it´s just one, because the society in general can´t handle an individuum or is not willing to handle them, with either ADD or ADHD.

It´s an "out of order" for those.

And this is not worth living, believe me.

[jux]

you have a real defeatest attitude towards add/adhd. having it wont keep you "behind" your whole life, and it is certainly not a death sentance. society doesn't keep those with add/adhd down either. if add/adhd gets in the way of your life it is because you let it. i have adhd, and i have never used it as an excuse not to succeed....

[stoneinfocus]

that´s ignorant, sorry, society cares shit if you´re stayin´ behind or not for whatever reason, with the exception you, being a wheelchairdriver, or obviously in need of help for reasons that fall into the eye or are pecicely specified , known and undersdtandable.

No one cares if you could be genius, but therefor need Laudanum, then you´re just a drity junky with a problem that will lead you to death.

No one cares, that you can´t concentrate, because your concentration goes for all the whlie sitting still. Then you´re retarded and they wo t change their opinion even by showing some brilliance once in a while.

If you like running and playing stunts, you are not overweighed, then you´re automatically not intelligent, but manic or bi-polar.. you have no chance, if you can´t playalong -may it be just be a few day or hours a day, making the impression being able to do it and then use you "ADD/ADHD for the good in your free time or with meds.

even the "smart-ass" comerads will trick you out, because they have a higher social intelligence and make use of it to gain power over you, to make them look bigger. You might be physically stronger and a natural and therefor might ouroule them in anyway objectively, but you´ll have less success or no success at all, because social intelligence and ambivalence is higher valued, than creativity and thinking out of the cast, giving inspiration even endangers the teacher and he´d rather attack you and blame you, than furhter you and this with the help of the others + their valued "social intelligence".

there´s an arcticle in pub-med on overreaching pupils and later nobel price winners of differnt social classes and religions etc. .. that´s proving exactly these facts.

Reputation Comments on this post:

I appreciate this kind of emotional release, very human, productive or no

[jux]

you seem upset that society wont hold your hand through life because you have add. guess what? its not societies job to help you along...its up to you to succeed or fail...you can either make excuses and feel sorry for yourself or you can learn some coping skills and make something of yourself. dont blame society or the add....the choice is yours

[eltimmy]

>having it wont keep you "behind" your whole life

On the contrary, it can be severely impairing for many. It is reasonably theorized, again, that in cultures (low-income, low-education) that don't recognize the syndrome, many of these people end up in jail. Significantly higher rates of school dropout, drug addiction, etc.

A mental illness, on face value, is as serious as any physical impairment.

>>its not societies job to help you along...its up to you to succeed or fail
>dont blame society or the add....the choice is yours

Right-on, untermensch, but what we are discussing is a matter of neurochemistry. Neurochemistry producing temperament. ADDers aren't making the proper chemicals to generate much of volition, focus, or energy to get up and carpe jugulum.

Brain scans actually suggest that ADDers are working harder than many without the condition, because their prefrontal cortex has to work in overdrive to quiet that limbic system that's telling them to go watch TV instead of being productive. That is, they have to work much harder to produce the same amount. Please don't give me this "ADD is laziness" bullshit ... it's so trite at this point, thousands of studies into the organic basis of the condition later.

OTOH, many of them are creative, intelligent thinkers stymied by their impairment. You seem to carry a certain pragmatist chip on that shoulder ... well, think of how much society would benefit if this large, growing mass of people were cured of their condition -- given the tools to extend their consciousness into the world. That is, think in dollars within the U.S. economy. There's probably an estimate of lost income from difficulties in concentration somewhere, from one of these "cool" "innovative" freelance warrior economists that seem to be everywhere right now -- go ahead and find it, but I assure you it is significant.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Plenty of good posts in this thread.

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by eltimmy

well, think of how much society would benefit if this large, growing mass of people were cured of their condition

I really don't care for the phrase, "mental illness", and the highlighted part of your quote is a big part of why.

What is sanity? What is normal? What does it mean to be mentally healthy? According to many mental health specialists these days it means that you are free of mental illness, but I'm not so sure about that concept. Are all mental conditions like a disease? How can you differentiate mental states, and to what extent can you wholly attribute such states to either completely physiological or psychological origins?

This issue is far too complex for it to be a simple matter of a 'disease' to be cured. This isn't cancer, its far more involving than that.

[jux]

Originally Posted by eltimmy

> Please don't give me this "ADD is laziness" bullshit ... .

i never did...considering (as i have stated before) that i have ADHD, i would never say that, and have in fact been argueing the opposite side. (read my posts earlier in this thread) what i am saying is having a defeatest attitude about it (saying you'll be behind all your life) and blaming it for all of your problems is completely useless. im sick of people using ADD/ADHD as an excuse not to succeed....

[stoneinfocus]

You actually had a better life than most, but saying "I did so well with ADD ADHD" so others might do, is an attitude far from percise and being fair, it´s arrogant and showing your hybris.

Your could be even diagnosed wrongly and your attitude is the one´s chosen to show everyone the display "We care for ADD ADHD and noone ´s left behind", while all those wirth real ADD ADHD are left behind and will have a miserable life far behind their abilities and a living so poor that it defies description.

Ever thought your energy is it what´s being instrumentalized for this sane society?

Reputation Comments on this post:

definitely, each person's experience of the disorder is different.

[nalbano34]

All the points are very valid, and I feel that it is definately a real condition, but............... I can not help but feel that there is far to much abuse of adderal. It seems to take away the legitimacy of the condition when there are thousands ( I would assume 1/2 being teens ) taking this for recreational purposes. I have a buddy that actually went through the whole process of going to therapy for 2 months just to get the stuff prescribed to him. Now that seemed rather silly and only seems to strengthen my thoughts on this. I am on some psych meds, and I take them not for the euphoria ( would be nice if there was any though ) , but take them due to a serious condition. I often wonder if wellbutrin becomes the drug most prescribed for ADD/ADHD, would there be a decrease in the amount of cases? I can tell you one guy that would drop from the list.

[stoneinfocus]

So you´re thinking, a condition might be not that serious and a medicine prescribed for it, that maybe "abused", and does the same things, in healthy men, as it does probelm-conditions, giving just _the_ little edge, makes you think, this might not justify the use, because it´s not a such "sever" condition.

But remember, this might be the differnece of an ADD having the door key to the 2 DinA4 sites he´s learned and is able to remember in a test, instead of gettting stuck after 3 senteces and being unabel managing an over-reaction of the mind/CNS, leaving nothing but anger and a read, empty head, where otheres might stay cool and get it all out.

This littel difference is what makes a whole spiral either to an A-C grade and a smile and peacful mind with oneself and society, or a day-week long froen and a D-E/F grade, whith yourself hating everyone.

You see, for getting something done right in the whole, it does justifiy spending 500$ for the last little piece of equipement, like a special, tiny littel screw, a preciuos catalyst, etc. making a 2000$ project work, or putting it frustrated, dreaming of it working, into the cellar under the dust cover and just forget about it, for the rest of its days.

I wonder on how many ingoring lists co-incidence et a. resides, anywher he´s around -98%? *g* if yo ask me this is something that shoudln´t be found on a discussion board, too convenient, but that´s off-topic now. ;_)

And this is a misleading attitude IMHO, as it is not leaving an addiction be untl it resolves itslef or is solved by the addict himself.

if something to an individual means "living" and gettign it all out, it should be granted, becasue you donßt bnowhat the differnce is like for this person and that what muight look like selfdestruction or over-doing, is the far better alternative for this living.

All other alternatives are IMHO just instrumentalisation adn foul compromises (of course live might prove this hypothesis a flase one, but itßs still better than all compromses that always prove flase to my defintion of living)

[eltimmy]

Bajeda: If similar symptoms are afflicting a large portion of the population, and said symptoms are a serious impediment to their happiness/productivity/self-actualization as such, then research into alleviating said symptoms is warranted.

I agree that things have gone too far with the mass prescription of drugs to children.

I agree that mental illness is a subjective window. That doesn't mean ADD shouldn't be treated, or that the designation isn't useful in this case.

ADD to my mind is more of a "syndrome" than a disorder, being as its symptoms could be caused by a number of different sources (often many at once), such as head injury, black mold exposure, or genetics (the most heritable of any designated mental illness).

[Bajeda]

I wasn't saying that it shouldn't be treated. Nothing of the sort. I didn't say anywhere that I don't think medication should be made to try and alleviate symptoms that are often undesirable for the people who experience them. I just hate the idea of calling ADD an illness to be cured.

You can't cure such conditions at this point, regardless of what the pharmaceutical industry wants you to believe. You can keep taking drugs for the rest of your life, a sort of maintenance state, but thats about it as far as medicaments go.

Thinking of ADD in terms of illness/disease and thinknig of how to combat ADD in terms of "cures" and "magic-bullets" created this encompassing social attitude towards the condition (and this applies to many other similar conditions) that is a source of many problems prevalent today regarding mental health and pharmaceutical treatment options.

Again, to clarify. I in no way think that ADD is something that you shouldn't try to treat, and I don't disagree it can be something of an affliction for many people. That being said, I don't like the medicalized state of mental health today, given that it encompasses a much broader scope than the other essentially physical medical professions, and I absolutely hate the idea that one can "cure" one's self of what is essentially an aspect of their personality, whether they like it or not. Attempting to alleviate symptoms that cause hardship for people is fine, but lets not call it something its not. *thinks about the last x-men movie, however extreme the comparison would be*

[eltimmy]

Fair enough, I agree with the ideas in your post 100%.

My attitude is somewhat like yours, but tempered by the lens I bring to the issue: I am only looking at ADD specifically within the current state of affairs. Yes, I would overhaul the whole system if I had the ability.

My attitude is generally anti-psychiatric. But do I want a paranoid schizophrenic with complex delusions in the driving lane next to me, their right to their-reality-no-less-valid-than-ours aside? It's complicated, man.

As far as a permanent "cure" for the symptoms of this whatever-you-want-to-call-it goes, I'm fairly hopeful for the balance board therapies currently floating around right now ... more research is needed.

[stoneinfocus]

well, ADD is not tha complicated, psychiatriy isn´t at all... someone says you´re metnally ill, which might be right eihter by 1/1000.000 chance to which even all non profs would aggree, or you´re not, which doesn´t matter, cause psychiatry has to survive by any means, then you´re doped, use or no use.

ADD can be treated? Do it! Learning curve improves? Do it!Lean body is favored? Do it! No sever sides compared to all other stuff in life? Do it!

... or leave it, if youßre allowed to *g* -no one really cares, you see . *lol*

[cyndi]

Adhd is a chemical imbalance that needs treatment thus the meds. The problem is the meds are overprescribed. A lot of parents will put their kids on it if they have a "problem" child. Adhd may not necessarily be the issue but they get the meds anyway. Now with proper monitoring, one can tell if the meds are working but as I said many times, a lot of docs do not monitor just script it and go. No adhd or add is not a bullshit condition, it is real. The problem is the meds are speed, which has a bad stigma anyway in this society and many take it say on a recreational level. Or someone may take it legitimately and not have the condition and think well this isn't helping. One must have the conditon for the meds to work.

[laws0n]

I wonder if people with ADD that use Adderall and other Amptetamines actually feel the effects the way normal people do. SWIM's friend says he doesnt but when hes on them he says things like "I am so concentrated, this is so nice" so maybe it effects them the same?

[cyndi]

No it doesn't affect people with these conditions the same. Yes they are happier because they can calm down and focus and feel better about what they are doing. People without the condition just basically get a speedy effect where as people with the condition should not. If they do then they probably do not have the condition. As swim said before it is way over diagnosed.

[hh339]

People with ADHD can usually get just as wired and speedy as other people. It's all about the dosage.

[cyndi]

Originally Posted by hh339

People with ADHD can usually get just as wired and speedy as other people. It's all about the dosage.

Well now swiy is talking again about abuse of medication not on topic which is add/adhd a bs condition. Swim has said pretty much all she is going to about this, take it or leave it. Again it is overdiagnosed and many people who think they have these condions are given meds when they shouldn't be and yes they will be speedy as swiy puts it. Swim would be very surprised if a legit adhd or add person were to abuse meds just for kicks, but of course a fool is born every minute. Then what if they needed the meds and ran out because of the junkey monkey experiment? That would be absurd. Sorry swim can't see it unless the monkeys are just fools.

[eltimmy]

Great post jezzmo.

Your description of inattentive ADD is right-on.

In the fall SWIM will be using a combination of transdermal selegiline and transdermal nicotine (the addictive potential of which is considered to be very minor) for symptom control. This works excellently (SWIM is an unlucky poor responder to stimulant therapy), and SWIM finds the effectiveness and side effect profile to be excellent. Both drugs, btw, show considerable neuroprotection on their own.