TEK - Making a crude coca leaf extract ?

[kenbo]

Ahh now this sounds much more like it. Regards the work side of things - would your critter suggest that this might be good for graphic designers etc who do have to have a nice clear mind for creativity but also have a good work rate for meeting deadlines. Talking doesn't come into this as SWIM works alone. It may be a personal thing to SWIM but caffeine really isn't the tool I'm after - SWIM gets very jittery and SWIM's mind races through a million things at once instead of concentrating on the one making things 10 times worse.

[Benga]

Originally Posted by kenbo

Ahh now this sounds much more like it. Regards the work side of things - would your critter suggest that this might be good for graphic designers etc who do have to have a nice clear mind for creativity but also have a good work rate for meeting deadlines. Talking doesn't come into this as SWIM works alone. It may be a personal thing to SWIM but caffeine really isn't the tool I'm after - SWIM gets very jittery and SWIM's mind races through a million things at once instead of concentrating on the one making things 10 times worse.

well it's a matter of personal response to coca's effects but from the critter's experience it would definetly work. critter has used / uses it for translation work and writing, music composition and playing, and video work. no problem with photoshop on that one. when one works alone, the libido boost might be an issue, but if one is really working on something this is easily kept in check.

the critter can really focus and work long hours - it reduces the need for food and sleep, yet this is temporary, which is a really good thing.
After long chewing sessions, the appetite suppressant and psychomotor stimulant are still felt for approximately 45 minutes to an hour, then fatigue and any meals skipped are felt. there is no amphetamine like crash, more of a gradual return to an unstimulated state, but physical or mental activities done are really felt soon afterwards- not the next day.
If taken too long into the night, it can cause slight difficulties in falling asleep, but in the critter's experience this is more the case when coca is combined with alcohol consumption. it really depends on the type of work, after a long period of intense concentration it takes a while to move away from it and into sleep favorable relaxed mindeset, which is as much a part of the sleep issue as is any residual coca linked stimulation.

coca also works great for plain physical work- has been a great help in painting a flat, packing and moving, disassembling a stage set with a crew, and, although this is not advisable for legal safety issues, in driving. Coca, even in large doses, does not give the critter strong tachycardia as other stimulants, including caffeine, would.

the critter also drinks coffee, but moderately, one to three cups a day tops, as caffeine also easily becomes counter-productive, with the jittery edgy unable to concentrate feeling that comes very quickly, along with the critter's sensitivity to coffee's effects on sleep and on muscular tension. For caffeine stimulation, he much prefers yerba mate (not mate de coca, the real "mate"), as the effects are cleaner. A cup of coffee in the morning or after lunch is fine for the critter, but much more than that becomes unpleasant.

but without wanting to sound like a coca maniac or salesperson, coca is really uncomparable to coffee for this particular critter, though it serves a similar function, especially for such work like conditions. Coffee also doesn't include the mood lift plus effects on motivation, eagerness to work, which is a really great aspect, especially since it doesn't have the risk of going into full blown euphoria like cocaine or amphetamines, and has no crash attached.

b

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by Benga

without going into trade names, let's say that the best commercial coca tea the critters has tried were small peruvian brands, not the 3 mainstream ones financed by the governmental coca agency.
b

I have just read the rules again on discussing suppliers which says -
"Discussion of suppliers is only allowed in the Sources forums.
This means that discussion of vendors is not allowed anywhere on the site, not in PM. Sources forums only."

but it doesn't mention discussing brand names but I thought I had better run it by the forum first to check is it O.K. to ask what brand would be best to try for the best results regards coca chewing - not who supplies it or how to purchase it from a supplier.?

Thank you.

[Benga]

Originally Posted by kenbo

I have just read the rules again on discussing suppliers which says -
"Discussion of suppliers is only allowed in the Sources forums.
This means that discussion of vendors is not allowed anywhere on the site, not in PM. Sources forums only."

but it doesn't mention discussing brand names but I thought I had better run it by the forum first to check is it O.K. to ask what brand would be best to try for the best results regards coca chewing - not who supplies it or how to purchase it from a supplier.?

Thank you.

that's a tough one. vendor discussion is indeed out of the question. But coca brands...in some cases this comes in contradiction with the sources rule as some manufacturers are also exclusive vendors.
i'm really not sure about this, and will check.

[Benga]

ok. Brand discussion is allowed, as long as these are actually commercially available brands, and not vendor specific.
This excludes one main known vendor, which offers different grades of mate de coca.

On this particular brand i will say that his quality is very good, and that the grades given do mean something. The coca is sometimes stronger, sometimes weaker, this is due to the difficulties in finding proper suppliers, geographical issues and types of coca harvested ( smaller coca E. coca leaves are usually stronger)- and the harvest period. Yet this coca brand is good.

for Peruvian brands, Arlequino doesn't recommend the state run ENACO brand, "delisse". This is really poor quality coca. Same applies to "Herbi". The market leader "zurit" is unstable. apparently some pure mate de coca is adulterated ( Zurit, like ENACO, makes coca + other plant infusions, but mate de coca is normally 100% mate de coca). Lots of twigs in there, and not very strong, but sometimes ok (some years ago, Arlequino had pleasant surprises with Zurit). Old pacakging was yellow, new packaging is purple.

Arlequino's current favorite is Wawasana, which is really nice. Good, pungent taste, strong coca. Has gone through a few boxes, and the last two were really superior quality.

on Bolivian coca, Arlequino has less experience. He doesn't really recommend Windsor, the market leader. Has found this coca to be very weak. That said, Bolivian coca plants used are supposed to be different from Peruvian coca, with a different alkaloid makeup. Same goes for Lupi.
MacMatte was the best bolivian brand Arlequino sampled. Apparently different grades of MacMatte mate de coca are now available, which would be really worth looking into.
this is about as far as we can go on the subject. Would love to have info on other commercial brands ( caranavi, nasa esh, horniman), and brands from other countries-- but please be careful with the vendor association. If a brand is vendor exclusive, it cannot be discussed here.

b

[kenbo]

Great! thanks for this informative post! It means SWIM can try a few other brands and see what SWIM prefers. I will post back with any new input SWIM feels they can add.

[mictihtoya]

SWIM finally tried making a liqueur by soaking mate de coca in a bowl of rum. Stirred it a few times over the course of a week and squeezed it dry with a combination of a french press and a piece of t-shirt. Even with only 70 bags of coca tea to a fifth of rum, there was too much cocaine per mL of ethanol to get drunk off the stuff.

SWIM had company over for Thanksgiving dinner and everyone enjoyed the coca rum.

[PitfromGreece]

Does any SWIY had any luck making an extract that has good effects?

SWIM wants to use an extract in social settings.
From what I read how the coca alkaloids being absorbed only a gum, a slowly melting jellybean a rock candy e.t.c. can maybe have a good effect.

SWIM will try making a candy with a coca extract, but is not sure will work as good as the traditional method for absorbing the coca alkaloids.

SWIM can find a book from professional candy makers, make a candy with a coca extract and a nice tasting cheable anti acid pill found in pharmacy (for excess acid in the stomach) and report results.

SWIM would happily go through this minor trouble if Benga reports back with even minimal success with his coca masticha gum.

[Desertfox]

SWIM has an extract he did along time ago sitting in his apartment. he was trying to make a simple, smokable extract but the results were less than desirable. he is waiting til he is bored/desperate enough to ingest them by smoking or other means to test for potentcy.

[PitfromGreece]

What SWIM is searching for is something than can carry with him and use it whenever he wants without other people know that he used a coca extract.

This is why something that SWIM can hold in his mouth (a coca gum, jellybean) seems appealing.

PitfromGreece added 6 Minutes and 1 Seconds later...

For anyone using the traditional method and chewing coca try a chewable antiacid from a pharmacy, SWIM found a really good product from an Italian company. It is a pill with natural herb flavours that has natural soda and limestone.

[Benga]

yes, this a really interesting question indeed, as having a mouth full of leaves is really an issue.
swim hasn't had time to pursue such experiements but remembers someone going pretty far in the experiment.
The main problem is that there always seem to be quite a lot of wasted leaves, and it's much less efficient than simply "chewing" --- coca being not that cheap or strong to begin with, this is problematic.
sodium bicarb. works fine for swim, eventally combined with a mint or sweet if "coca breath" is an issue.

[PitfromGreece]

"The main problem is that there always seem to be quite a lot of wasted leaves"

What do you mean by this? Is this in reference to the coca gum, jellybean, drop e.t.c? If yes SWIM is planing to do it the same way SWIY tried making it with masticha. SWIM believes a coca jellybean or a drop can be better than a gum as can dispence active ingredients more slowly and in more regular way than a gum.

What SWIM needs is to make a coca extraction with pure alcohol and find a recipe for a drop that:

1. can hold the coca extract and soda as extra ingredients.
2. Find a recipe that does not involve high temperatures (from swim research making a drop involves, burning sugar in high temperature to make a caramel, if you try to incorporate the coca extract when the caramel is cold it will not emulsify.
3. Find a recipe for a drop that melts really slow in the mouth so there is time to absorb as much from the alkaloids.

[Benga]

Originally Posted by PitfromGreece

What do you mean by this? Is this in reference to the coca gum, jellybean, drop e.t.c? If yes SWIM is planing to do it the same way SWIY tried making it with masticha. SWIM believes a coca jellybean or a drop can be better than a gum as can dispence active ingredients more slowly and in more regular way than a gum.

What SWIM needs is to make a coca extraction with pure alcohol and find a recipe for a drop that:

1. can hold the coca extract and soda as extra ingredients.
2. Find a recipe that does not involve high temperatures (from swim research making a drop involves, burning sugar in high temperature to make a caramel, if you try to incorporate the coca extract when the caramel is cold it will not emulsify.
3. Find a recipe for a drop that melts really slow in the mouth so there is time to absorb as much from the alkaloids.

meant that effects to quantity wise, the drops / gums swim has experimented with were much weaker.
swimsadvice to you would be to use already existing drops, but remelt them. this works fine. get some honey cough drops, as they're quite slow to melt, to melt them in a saucepan with just a little water so they don't burn. becomes a liquid. add the coca / bicarb or coca extract, then let them recrystallize as they cool.
swim has done this and it does work. the main issue being the potency of the coca intrapped in the sugary coating. swim has never tried this with highly concentrated coca extracts, but it woud make sense.

do a week long maceration of coca leaf powder in the highest grade of drinkable alcohol available ( search rectified spirits, although the name sounds odd this is actually drinking ethanol, also know as neutralalkohol in germany, and the famous "everclear" in north america). then do a few ( 5 or so) passes of cold percolation, to let gravity pull the alkaloids.
evaporate the extract to a thick putty, and then work from there to do the sweets.
swim has never tried this, though his has done the maceration / percolation procedure, ending up with a concentrated tar like resinous extract of coca. hard to consume by itself, but probably much more interesting for a coca candy recipe than plain leaves.
south american stores already do sell coca candy btw, but coca is more a flavour agent than active ingredient, with little to none psychoactive effects.

b

[PitfromGreece]

What you are saying makes sense, is SWIY happy with the melted drop or thinks that a recipe is needed to make candy (cannot be too difficult)

Just being curious how SWIY incorporated the coca extract in the masticha? Does masticha melts if heated?

What do you thing is the main problem for the limited effects of a home made coca gum/candy?

[Benga]

Originally Posted by PitfromGreece

What you are saying makes sense, is SWIY happy with the melted drop or thinks that a recipe is needed to make candy (cannot be too difficult)

Just being curious how SWIY incorporated the coca extract in the masticha? Does masticha melts if heated?

What do you thing is the main problem for the limited effects of a home made coca gum/candy?

the melted drops worked fine, but it's probably cheaper and healthier to create one's own recipe. Yet the masticha melts, it becomes more rubbery gummy. I would say that main limitation is that mechanics of coca absorption are probably against us. Coca "chewing" implies prolonged contact of leaves in a basic medium. The candy cocating probably limits the buccal extraction procedure, and also the alkaloid rich saliva's absorption through the mucous membranes, which probably accounts for the weakness of effects. which is why it's probably more interesting to work with concentrated extracts, once one has made one that is truely effective sublingually.
if an extract induces the numbing effect, then it is active this way. this is not simple, as we're going from an alcohol extraction / reduction to sublingual admin. it doesn't work very well somehow, and such extract seem to be more active swallowed than sublingually.
keep us informed of swiyou's experiments and how they turn out

b

[PitfromGreece]

MOD EDITED.
price discussion are against the rules

------------------

SWIM is going to try the following, Its going to be somewhat complicated and take a little time SWIM would appreciate any comments.

find a recipe for drops, calculate PH, add a coca extract and soda to make the total PH 9.

The recipe of the drops has to be one that melts really slowly. I do not know if sugar in the mouth can effect alkaloid absorption.

SWIY said that coca is very expensive, I found but not tried yet a 900gr bag of "superior" coca tea. I am sure SWIY knows about it or even tried it. I hope mentioning this without referring to a brand is not a problem.

[shatteredparadigm]

Has anyone tried using a magnetic stirrer?

SWIM was thinking this would help in the maceration process. You can't really leave a blender on for days at a time, but SWIM thinks this could help extract all the alkaloids.

Any thoughts?

[nataraja]

removed

[shatteredparadigm]

Alchohol makes the mixture pretty non-viscous. Especially since the powder isn't very dense. Even so, they do sell special magnets for viscous liquids. SWIM thinks it would probably work, just leave it on for like a day to get everything extracted. Just have to find a cheap used one or something...

The blender idea is pretty good, never seen one with a timer though and SWIY might have trouble with evaporation, since the seal on blenders isn't that good.

SWIM is going to finish his crude extract soon. If it's any good SWIM might invest in a magnetic stirrer for fun. Will post details soon!

[BumpBump]

swim thinks the key here must be to basify the tea first. i.e soak in ph 9+ solution.
Then maybe if swim used an amount of acetone and sealed it in a bottle for 2-3 days this could be evaporated out to leave an extract of some kind.... it should certainly contain the alkaloids swimers are looking for.
As far as swim can see the only reason keresone is used for larger extractions is to extract the basified alkaloids from the leaf, and it wont evaporate in the open like acetone. Acetone will do a far superior job and will evaporate clean and fast.

Another idea swim had is based on the assumption that alkaloids don't seem to be extracted by water in the process of making tea etc. Maybe if the leaf is soaked in water alot of the organic matter will be released into the water, and not into the extract. One way to test this would be to brew a few tea bags and then chew them after with bicarb and see if any numbing effects are felt.

Swims friend is sending him a box of delise bags and swim will give this a try next week.

[Benga]

Originally Posted by BumpBump

swim thinks the key here must be to basify the tea first. i.e soak in ph 9+ solution.
Then maybe if swim used an amount of acetone and sealed it in a bottle for 2-3 days this could be evaporated out to leave an extract of some kind.... it should certainly contain the alkaloids swimers are looking for.
As far as swim can see the only reason keresone is used for larger extractions is to extract the basified alkaloids from the leaf, and it wont evaporate in the open like acetone. Acetone will do a far superior job and will evaporate clean and fast.

Another idea swim had is based on the assumption that alkaloids don't seem to be extracted by water in the process of making tea etc. Maybe if the leaf is soaked in water alot of the organic matter will be released into the water, and not into the extract. One way to test this would be to brew a few tea bags and then chew them after with bicarb and see if any numbing effects are felt.

Swims friend is sending him a box of delise bags and swim will give this a try next week.

please keep in mind that what is discussed here are crude full spectrum alkaloid extraction, and not cocaine extraction ( discussions of which belong in the chemistry forums)
kerosene is used in cocaine extraction for its non-polar qualities, but chloroform and other solvents can be used. water is indeed a very poor solvent.
but this is quite different from the crude extracts discussed here

[BumpBump]

hi benga, swim made no attempt to purify the end product in his theory, and not even a A-B extraction. The only solvent used would be acetone, and possibly water to wash away more organic waste before the extraction.
The result would still contain any organics and alkaloids the acetone took with it.
All ingredients are common and swim could raise the PH with slaked lime, or similar.
Swim is hoping for a resin type substance he can chew or smoke in joints

[shatteredparadigm]

SWIM's first guide here, hopefully you'll like it. Most of this is not of SWIM's own creativity but taken from the numerous users on this forum. Thanks to everyone for the inspiration!

Successful Room Temperature Coca Full Spectrum Extraction

Items Used

• 20g taken from mid-grade coca tea
• 250ml 95% grain alcohol
• 1 tablespoon sodium bicarbonate
• 2 Liter plastic pop bottle
• 2 Mason Jars
• Hand Blender

Step 1
SWIM emptied the 20g worth of coca tea into a mason jar. Added sodium bicarbonate. Poured alcohol over the ground tea leaves until it just covered the tops of the leaf. Blended with a hand blender 3 times for 1min each. Sealed jar tightly and placed in dark room.

Step 2
Let mixture steep at 73 F (room temp) for one week. Daily shaking to ensure suspension.

Step 3
SWIM took the 2 liter bottle and cut it in half. Placed coffee filter inside the funneled top after wetting with water. Screwed lid on the end loosely. Placed this funnel on top of second mason jar.

First pass: Shook the mason jar to suspend particles, and carefully poured it through the coffee filter. Liquid emerged in very thin stream, a beautiful deep emerald green. Had to add some alcohol to original mason jar to remove settled material.

Second pass: Tightened lid on bottle funnel and poured from second mason jar back into the first. Liquid emerged in a fast drip.

Third pass: Tightened again and liquid emerged at a slow drip, taking approximately 1 hour to filter. When empty, passed additional alcohol through filter to ensure complete extraction. Physically squeezed remainder out.

Final pass: Placed fresh alcohol soaked filter in bottle. Passed liquid through without cap. removed a small amount of setiment, unsure if this step is entirely necessary.

Step 4
Swim gently placed non-stick aluminum foil in 6x9 baking dish. Poured solution into pan. Allowed to air-dry for 48 hours next to air purifier to reduce odor. Room temperature evaporation was chosen to preserve health benefits of the tea and reduce risk of damaging the other psychoactive chemicals found in the leaf. Allowed to dry until the consistency of thick oil paint.


Testing:
SWIM placed a dab on his tongue and it quickly went numb. "Painted" gums and could quickly feel the effects. Not overpowering but pleasant, much like chewing but stronger with a quicker onset. SWIM is genuinely pleased with the results.

Made several doses worth. The remainder, after testing, was sealed in a Ziploc bag with the foil.

Thanks for reading! Please leave comments, questions and ideas... and have fun!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	thanks for the contribution, good addition to the thread and clear write up
	Very Informative and clearly written

[kenbo]

Could using alcohol change some of the make up of the alkaloids - ie cocaine to cocaethylene - or however it's spelled?

Reputation Comments on this post:

good question - it needed to be asked. I was wondering this myself

[CocaPaePae]

Swim is interested in alcohol extractions as described above and for same 'ease of use' reasons... question: how exactly does one use the gooey extract for buccal use? spit/swallow? chew/soak? someone said under tongue for then what? thanks.