TEK - Making a crude coca leaf extract ?

[Benga]

SWIM was wondering if any of you great minds would have an idea for performing a VERY CRUDE coca extraction, something which could be performed on the quantities used in coca chewing ( say 10g), the idea being to isolate the alkaloids from the plants, not seperating out cocaine only, but obtaining some form of paste which could used orally, as in coca chewing but bypassing the traditional 45 minutes of having leaves and base in your mouth for absorption through the mouth's mucous membranes.
with such small quantities, the extraction procedure shouldn't take long, say 45 minutes to one hour and should require all the labour and chemicals of an acid/base extraction.
Reconsidering the process of coca chewing, leaves are placed in mouth for 45 minutes, swimming in saliva ( slightly acidic) with an added base ( limestone paste, sodium bicarbonate, or traditional quinoa ashes).
this effectively extracts alkaloids ( including cocaine) which are then absorbed through the mouth mucosa. Would there be a way to work on this procedure and obtain some kind of extract ( maybe extracting in liquid, water and alcohol, using sodium bicarbonate and say citric acid, then filtering, evaporating, rinsing? ) in which the alkaloid mass would be seperated from the plant material and concentrated, thus allowing a more convinient use without going for actual cocaine isolation ? reading of other plant extractions, this has been on swim's mind for some time...
Any ideas or comments ?

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[IHrtHalucingens]

SWIM was always under the impression that one would need copiuos amounts of the coca leaf to even get a small yeild. Now he doesnt know if this is just for making cocaine or how it would relate to your experiment, but he would assume its not a whole lot different. But SWIM would love to hear about any success you might have as its very interesting ot him.

Reputation Comments on this post:

read before posting...

[Benga]

please re-read this post this is not about making cocaine, and it is a different process. it is about getting rid of tiresome traditional coca leaf-chewing process, using similar quantities.
The idea is not doing a cocaine extraction but getting a crude extract of all the alkaloids in the leaf (ie not just the cocaine alkaloids, which is done by an acid base ) as you would in oral coca consumption.
b

[mushroom-man]

One possible method would be to bring to boil 150mL 95% ETOH drop in 20 gm of leaf powder (or so) and then drop heat to mild simmer for 10 minutes. Let sit for another 5 and while still hot filter. Reduce volume 60-70% at low heat (150 F). Save this. When ready to use dilute with water and add Bicarb, let sit for a couple minutes then take small sips and let it soak in. In SWIMs dream his mouth became nice and numb and felt like he had done copious amounts of leaf without the mess.

Peace,

Mush

Reputation Comments on this post:

good idea submission. keep it up !

[Benga]

thanks for sharing this idea. swim had kind of given up on "chewable" ie mouth absorbtion extracts and moved on to fluid extracts, but this dreams seems worth a try !

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[mushroom-man]

In a continuation of SWIMs dream the volume was reduced to ~85% then a very saturated Na Bicarb solution in hot water was added, about a volume of 20% of the original. This was stirred thoroughly with some noticeable reaction (minor bulbing) then heated at <150F to remove liquid. Heat is reduced towards the end and it may be spread out in a Pyrex pie pan or similar. One may end up with a nice tar that when a pea size piece is placed under tongue a familiar numbness consumes the mouth, albeit a bit more pronounced. This being in base form may not have long shelf life. One could also use Calcium Hydroxide...

Peace,

Mush

Reputation Comments on this post:

sweet dreams indeed!

[tayo]

SWIM has boiled 40grams of coca leaf along with maybe 10grams ephedra, after foliage was ground up. SWIM can't remember whether or not sodium bicarbonate was added to pot with foliage, SWIM thinks so... it was boiled for about 2 hours at the point between steaming and boiling, it was then poured in a french press to strain, remaining plantless dark fluid was left in oven to evaporate at low temperature. Then SWIM scraped the walls of the dish with a razor blade and compiled sticky resin that came out to about 1.5 grams. Result was much more potent, but taste was not worth sucking on for numbness in mouth. Resin is smokable for pleasant stimulation effects and euphoria... obviously this is a very simple attempt at sucking out the alkaloids but it seemed to work just fine.
SWIY should give it a GO!

[Katabatic]

Originally Posted by tayo

Resin is smokable for pleasant stimulation effects and euphoria...

What would be the best way to smoke this?

Also, any idea on what temperature will destroy the extract? How would boiling it compare to using alcohol?

[Benga]

ok folks, swim has succeeded in making coca gum.
just use one of the methods aboves, swim used a 125gm coca to 1liter 95° drinking alcohol ( rectified spirits, absolute alcohol ie "everclear" for those in some US states) fluid extract, made by maceration and cold percolation.
the dark colored liquid is then evaporated below boiling point on a pyrex dish, and as it is evaporated, "mastic", the greek resin from the mastik tree which swiyou should be able to find in greek speciality stores, is added to the liquid. when dry, you'll obtain an active chewable paste. for more info on "mastic" or "mastik", just type in mastic in wikipedia.
swim's still trying to figure out if adding a base makes any sense or not at this point.
it would if one was to eat the resin ( to counter act stomach acidity), but for buccal absorbtion, why should it ? the main point of adding an alkali is to suck out / freebase the alkaloids into saliva made more basic, hence more efficient at extracting the alkaloids. but since here the resin is already extracted and concentrated, not sure it's necessary. The fact that it numbs without any base is a good sign.

@ontherooftops :
what swiyou's looking for is an edible gum base. Look into "organic" chewing gums for ingredients, what kind of bases they use. Most use synthetic gum bases, but one can find other recipes.
Swim used mastik because he had some handy, but there are many other edible choices : agar agar would be one, acacia gum "arabic gum", the traditional "chicle" gum etc

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[Katabatic]

Originally Posted by Benga

it would if one was to eat the resin ( to counter act stomach acidity), but for buccal absorbtion, why should it ? the main point of adding an alkali is to suck out / freebase the alkaloids into saliva made more basic, hence more efficient at extracting the alkaloids. but since here the resin is already extracted and concentrated, not sure it's necessary. The fact that it numbs without any base is a good sign.
b

They do add it to the leaves during the first step of making cocaine, so there's got to be a reason?

[Benga]

Originally Posted by Katabatic

They do add it to the leaves during the first step of making cocaine, so there's got to be a reason?

the reason is the same as when "chewing" the leaves : a basic environment extracts alkaloids better, "pulls alkaloids out of the leaves" into the non polar solvent when extracting cocaine or directly into the user's saliva in chewing.

b

[Benga]

what swiwe're playing around is basically textbook herbal extraction procedures, making a liquid extract of coca, and then reducing it to a firm consistency which is a solid extract.
this works, and was part of pharmaceutical codexes pre-WW2.
the thing swim's wondering about is conservation of such extracts. Should they be frozen ? also, the coca extract does stay gooey unless a gum base is added.
in the codex recipe they would sometimes take the hard extract and dilute it in water to determine does (miscible extract).
in making the extract, swim has used drinking alcohol, 95° ( that's 200 % proof, ie everclear), also known as rectified spirits in europe. But it's very expensive. Some of you have used other alcohols, such as IPA, but even though they are to be evaporated, swim is kind of worried about messing around with a product fr oral intak that might have toxic traces.
Swim's thinking that if using non drinkable alcohol as a menstruum (solvent), maybe the final dry product should be diluted in water, and then re-evaporated to firm consistency, a form of water wash.

on the extraction procedure itself, swim would really recommend the following : 24 to 48 hours of maceration of leaves ( in lukewarm solvent if possible) with a little baking soda, followed by cold percolations ( take and inverted bottle, with top cut off, stuff plant medium at the bottom, pierce a hole in the lid or just untwist it so that one gets a flow of 1 drop every 2 or 3 seconds, and add solvent). Do at least 3 or 4 runs. this is very effective, you'll see it by the solvent changing color. When color is stabilized ( swim's is dark black with dark green hues), you can stop, or maybe do a last run using a little lukewarm fresh solvent, just to make sure the medium is exhausted.

a little repost of some stuff which might be useful here, to combine / compile info we have on the subject :

here's a complete guide on medical herbalist methods for making extracts, might be a source of inspiration for future research, it also teaches the "official" terminology, which proves very useful for looking up old / precise info online :

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29439

a list such herbalist coca preparations that existed before coca was removed from codexes :

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23273

Genaro's thread on alcohol extraction of plants, but the info is somewhat more basic than in the herbalist thread above, where the methods were aimed at getting relative precision from variables such as plant matter, still good info though :

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28422


and a related thread :

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17642

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what swiwe've been describing here partly corresponds to two processes, pulled from the thread on herbalist coca preps. hehehe :


EXTRACTUM COCAE, B.P.C.
EXTRACT OF COCA.

Related entries: Coca - Extracts
Other tomesLiquid Extract of Coca 100.00 | 20 ounces


Evaporate the liquid extract on a water-bath to the consistence of a firm extract.
Dose.—1 to 6 decigrams (2 to 10 grains).


EXTRACTUM COCAE LIQUIDUM MISCIBILE, B.P.C.
MISCIBLE LIQUID EXTRACT OF COCA.Liquid Extract of Coca 100.00 | 20 ounces
Alcohol (60 per cent.) ... to 100.00 | to 20 fl. ounces

Concentrate the liquid extract to 50 (10 fluid ounces) by evaporation, pour off as much clear liquid from the residue as possible, wash the residue with 10 (2 fluid ounces) of water, mix the washings with the clear liquid, and add sufficient of the alcohol to make up to the required volume.
Dose.—2 to 4 mils (1/2, to 1 fluid drachm).

Reputation Comments on this post:

great documents. good clarification on what the topic is

[Katabatic]

So SWIM still don't get it. Is baking soda necessary for extraction? What does it do?

[Benga]

it makes the extraction medium a more basic liquid.
which induces what could be related to a form of freebasing reaction. swiyou might want to read up on acid-base extractions processes for more details.
saliva on the other hand is slightly acid, this is why adding a basifying agent is important when "chewing" the leaves,


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[Ontherooftops]

Swim was of the understanding that adding baking soda in the final step makes it more able to cross the blood brain barrier ie, adding base to coca leaves for a chew to be effective.

[Benga]

Originally Posted by Ontherooftops

Swim was of the understanding that adding baking soda in the final step makes it more able to cross the blood brain barrier ie, adding base to coca leaves for a chew to be effective.

it's really more to facilitate extraction from the vegetable matter, as the alkaloids in the saliva are absorbed through the mouth mucosa, entering the bloodstream and have no blood brain barrier problems.
pretty much in the same way insufflated cocaine enters the bloodstream through nasal mucosa, but with the broad spectrum of coca's alakloids.
adding base is necessary to increase the buccal extraction process, as the acidity of saliva makes it a quite uneffective solvent. with a saliva + base mix, extraction is much more effective.

@mictihtoya
it would work, but is slow. a higher concentration of alcohol is prefered. also, the extraction is more effective ( quicker) if you use processes such as cold percolation, as described above. check out the herbalist coca based medical preparations.

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[mictihtoya]

I've been waiting for a thread like this forever. I gather from the experiences detailed here, that maceration and soaking of coca leaves in 40% ethanol would be sufficient for extraction of all the desired chemicals?

[tayo]

Boiling it left a dirt like extract and I believe alcohol based would create a more gooey extract. Best way to smoke it?.. dunno. I do not know the exact temperature the alkaloids are destroyed at but when this was tried swim just tried to keep the flame barely touching it in a standard weed pipe.

Currently swim is using a 40% liquor to extract from coca leaves.
Swim is going to put it in the freezer and frequently shake as well.
I am surprised that no one on this thread has suggested it being put in the freezer considering it might help breakdown cell walls? ..making it easier for the alcohol to extract alkaloids.

[libertassimplex]

Would as a start putting fresh leaves in a microwave, on low of course, help the extraction, I wonder.

[nate81]

MOD EDITED - Do not SELF INCRIMINATE
read the rules


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a freeze thaw cycle would be a great idea. cheap, easy, quick, and potentially could boost the overall performance of the extraction.

SWIM was thinking up a question while reading on cold percolation...Is this any better than just letting the material soak and then filter through a coffee filter? SWIM would rather let a solution sit for a few days and then filter than make a cold percolation device.

Also, since ethanol is very slightly acidic, wouldn't a slight addition of sodium bicarbonate (just so the solution would be about 6.5 ph instead of 7.3-ish) be worthwhile?

SWIM's proposal is this, do a freeze/thaw cycle (or two, or three) on swiyour leaves, put the leaves in a blender with ethanol, add a little bit of sodium bicarbonate to basify the solution, blend about two to five minutes, put the whole thing in a bottle to soak for about 24 hours, pour the solution through a coffee filter and keep the liquid.

SWIM is just really lazy so he tries to avoid things like distillation or building things like a cold percolator. Even though those things are actually not that hard at all

nate81 added 224 Minutes and 18 Seconds later...

take it back, SWIM can see the advantage of a cold percolator. found this as a good information source. wish SWIM could find pictures though.

http://earthnotes.tripod.com/basics.htm#howto

[Benga]

thanks. so far the critter's tests with coca extracts were rather inconclusive, read it works but "chewing" coca is still nicer. The higher alkaloid concentration of the extract never made that interesting of a difference. The only exception to this being coca alcohol.
the reason behind this is that coca chewing is actually very efficient, the alkaloids freebasing into the saliva, thanks to the alkali, and then directly absorbed by the mouth mucosa' lypophilic membranes, and into the blood stream.
with extracts this invivo freebasing reaction is more complex, and doesn't seem as efficient, so far.
all the coca extract recipes from of codexe's that the critter has posted here were intended for oral use, which is a completely different mechanism.

yet the thought of a full spectrum coca extract is really interesting, something that could be used sublingualy without the mess of leaves in the mouth

b

[kenbo]

Well SWIM tried an isopropanol extraction on 20 tea bags (20grms) - SWIM ended up with a substance like putty - very easy to work with rolled up a pea sized amount and popped under tongue with bicarb. Little zippy buzz and felt quite upbeat. SWIM decided to then do the same with the rest of his bags 80 in total. Done all at the same time and kept in sealed jars ready to evaporate isopropanol off. Done the same thing as previously only this time to find that the end result was more like a black tar. Very hard to work with - near impossible actually! and not quite the buzz as before. Tried again with varying amounts all with the same result. Then grabbed the gooey tea bags I had left in a plastic box and squeezed them into a nylon stocking getting the last of the iso out - evaporated that off and got the same result as the first one! SWIM has no idea what the difference is between getting the tar and the more easy to use putty like substance can't figure out what SWIM is doing wrong/differently. SWIM tried chewing a couple of bags at the start of SWIM little experiment with coca and although got a bit of a mood lift and slight numbness SWIM felt my first extraction as described above was better that this. SWIM has been reading quite a bit on here about chewing coca leaves and finds quite a number of different experiences on the same topic - the rang of mood uplift sometimes being described as euphoria!? with a clarity of mind etc - I certainly haven't managed this level yet - I think I will have to experiment with a few more makes of leaves see if this makes a difference - although I will stop here with this as I don't want to break any of the source discussion rules.

[Benga]

on the question of effects on mood, the critter only had what could be considered slightly euphoric ( ?) effects either in combination with alcohol, or during the first few experiences.
Tolerance does play a role, but it's not straightforward. The critter is a daily chewer, and though the effects are not euphoric, they're stable : a solid mood lift, brightening of mood, and increased motivation to act, either physically or mentally, and a slight boost in libido.
it's not euphoric, in the sense that the critter gets euphoric on cocaine, MDMA, BK-MDMA or amphetamines- which is completely different in terms of strength and its "rapture like" nature.
Coca is a good glowing mood and extra motivation. nothing to start chattering away to one's friends about as one would with cocaine.

Another characteristic of coca is that it has its psychoactive limitations, probably due to the alkaloid interaction and mode of intake : more coca, in one chewing, say 10 grams or 10 teabags in one go instead of 2 will produce stronger psychomotor stimulant effects, but not that much of a change in the strength of the euphoria.
There are reports of students trying to get higher with coca leaves by stuffing large amounts, frowned upon by native chewers. It didn't work, as it doesn't really work that way.

Another factor is the strength of the leaves, due to production realted factor, age of the leaves, types of coca bushes used, environmental factors such as hygrometry. Rainy season coca is weaker. The most mainstream peruvian brands are generally weaker than say more organic cooperative grown coca. The difference is felt quickly, taste is stronger in better leaves, and numbing effect powerful. Stimulation is stronger.

having also read reports of coca euphoria, the critter thinks this is a broad exageration or perhaps beginner's luck. Was a little saddened to read to actually read this in print recently, in a book which then went on confuse coca and cocaine. This is simply not so in the critter's experience, and spreads misinformation.

As for tolerance, while it does play a role, it's not that great either. The critter has been chewing coca for some years now, pretty much daily, and has also taken breaks along the way. The latest to date being a 3 month break this summer. Well, the first chews were not overpowering or euphoric. There was no real difference. And even with daily chewing of between 3 to 30 grams a day, there is no real tolerance build-up, ie it does not take more to reach the effects, and they're not in any way weaker.

coca extracts never really worked for the critter as well, and for the time being he has given up on them. Might be due to a disruption of the freebasing reaction which normally happens in the coca chewer's mooth. Coca alcohols, coca wines, are a different story however, but to be used in moderation, as side effects are there. But there we can start speaking of coca related euphoria.

Coca is a work drug. It would be well a well known fact if traditional andean coca chewers got euphoric from chewing. A mood lift, yes, makes life easier, increases endurance, alertness, motivation, yes, but no cocaine like top of the world euphoria.

critter also wrote on coca effects here :
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31613

[kenbo]

Very interesting points. The points regarding mood effects are interesting as SWIM wasn't really expecting "euphoria" themselves, although was very surprised to read about this in many threads despite sound advice pointing to the contrary - it was a mild mood enhancer. The latter was more what SWIM was really after, SWIM has tried all the usual energy drinks and bars to give SWIM a little lift when working on SWIM particular ocupation, design. But SWIM finds even caffeine very jittery and doesn't like the comedown - so from what SWIM had read the coca effects could have been ideal - but as suggested in the previous post SWIM was a little disappointed with the effects and thinks that a little experimentation with various manufacturers might be worth a try.

"a solid mood lift, brightening of mood, and increased motivation to act, either physically or mentally"

This is exactly what SWIM was after.

Also the point made about the varying strengths and factors affecting this is also interesting although SWIM won't go into this too much incase SWIM breaks a rule. SWIM will see if SWIM can get a more organic cooperative grown - although without going into detail SWIM is guessing the farther the leaves have to travel - the poorer the quality will become?

[Benga]

Originally Posted by kenbo

"a solid mood lift, brightening of mood, and increased motivation to act, either physically or mentally"

This is exactly what SWIM was after.

Also the point made about the varying strengths and factors affecting this is also interesting although SWIM won't go into this too much incase SWIM breaks a rule. SWIM will see if SWIM can get a more organic cooperative grown - although without going into detail SWIM is guessing the farther the leaves have to travel - the poorer the quality will become?

not necessarily. on "leaves", the critter finds teabags much more interesting than whole leaves, much more convenient and actually more effective. Ground coca is actually used for medicinal purposes in the Andes, and also in areas further away from production area.
without going into trade names, let's say that the best commercial coca tea the critters has tried were small peruvian brands, not the 3 mainstream ones financed by the governmental coca agency. the few brands of Bolivian coca tea the critter has tried were much weaker, though one stood out.
Some sources offer different qualities, and this is actually reflected in the product, though unfortunately it's not always consistent, depending on the batch of leaves they can use ( a lot gets hijacked by narcotraficantes for cocaine production, and it also depends on growing area and harvest season).

the key to chewing coca effectively is really to absolutely keep the saliva in one's mouth. One cannot talk, or swallow, or else the quid is wasted. which is why coca is not a very good social stimulant. A lot of the critter's friends that he introduced coca to didn't have the patience to keep the saliva in their mouth, swallowed or spat out the quid. Waste, especially with teabags that often open and spread into the mouth.
the simplest, most efficient way to enjoy coca is simply to rip open two teabags, to pour half a small teaspoon of baking soda ( sodium bicarbonate) in each teabag, lick the teabag's open end and roll it on itself, then place in the mouth, between cheek and gum or under the tongue.
and to wait. after roughly 5 real minutes, the teabag will be soaked with saliva and the reaction will begin, signalled by the numbing effect.
Once this has begun, keep the saliva in the mouth. Coca stimulates saliva secretion and that's fine. Keep it the, eventually gently pressing the quid in the mouth for at least 30 real minutes, 45 being a reasonable time.
once one gets used to the taste, one just keeps it there till its worn out ( no more numbing effect) and reloads with another quid.
if the quid opens and spreads in the mouth ( which it will), that's even better as the absorption is greater.

when one is chewing, having to speak, answer the phone etc means swallowing the saliva and hence losing basically 75% of the quid effects.

it's a little strict but really time is crucial. freebasing and absorption by the mouth mucous lining is slow, gradual, which is why preserving the alkaloid laden saliva is very important.

honestly, the critter has never found a substance as work positive as coca, and with little to none side effects. A love affair that's been going on for a few years now.


b