Magick (Hermetic tradition, Alchemical symbolism, Shamanic magic)

[Alfa]

Here are some interesting links relating the Hermetic tradition:

http://www.servantsofthelight.org/ SOL does not condone the use of drugs, but many members have interest in this regard. SOL iundirectly flowed out of the Order of the Golden Dawn, trough Dion Fortune and is now run by Dolores Ashcroft-Nowiki.
http://www.hermeticgoldendawn.org/ The Golden Dawn
http://www.hermetic.com/
http://digital-brilliance.com/kab/
http://www.polarissite.net/
http://www.themystica.com/
http://www.esotericarchives.com/esoteric.htm

Alchemical symbolism: http://www.levity.com/alchemy/images_s.html

Shamanic magic: http://www.shamanicjourneys.com/

[Sick Jack]

Hi,

Thank you for the links ! How would you (if possible) define the relation between psychedelics and the hermetic tradition ?

I came across some similar stuff lastly, really interesting indeed, in particular the writings of Charles Duit, a french writer who experienced peyotl in the 50s. I read yesterday an essay where he tries to differentiate the scientific tradition and the magick practice (I will try to make a synthesis and translate it into englisch).

The Tool band seems to practice some kind of "magicK", inspired a lot by Crowley.

The impression that I have, is that this field of knowledge could be a good frame through which we could get the better of the psychedelic experience.

[Alfa]

Originally Posted by Sick Jack

How would you (if possible) define the relation between psychedelics and the hermetic tradition ?

That is a very tough question to answer with a short reply.

With sex magic, sexual energy is used as a way to enter into an altered state of consciousness from which it is easier to do magick, as one is already on a certain plane. One can relate to psychedelics in the same way.

Psychedelic visions can be compared to qabalistic pathwork. Psychedelic experiences can be used and interpreted in the same way. In this regards bizarre and unworldly visions or experiences can make sense.

True will and exercising & strengthening the will is very important in the Hermetic Tradition. Especially in the works of Aleister Crowley. A strong is also very important to navigate trough the psychedelic experience. So in this regard the hermetic magickal practices will come in handy.

Magick is to create change by ones true will. Psychedelics are powerfull tools that can be used to create the wanted change.

As far as the band Tool, I wouldn't know. Not many realise that magick is something everyone does everyday. Wether they realise it or not. The Hermetic tradition is a very peculiar, but effective way to do it.

[genaro]

now keep in mind that the point of any spiritual practices is to be able to enter and use such unusual perceptive places naturally (without drugs).

About apprentice "learning" sorcery:
Sometime psy drugs are used (see shamanism) as an initial "push", for instance castaneda says that: drugs are only used to break the rational fences of the most "closed/blocked" apprentices so they will finally be able to repeat the experience on his own, without any drugs...and he adds that psy drugs can be necessary for "opening" such people to the "unusual reality matters", but should only be used for this purpose and in such people as drugs are very harmful to body and mind, in an energetic way.

About confirmed sorcerers:
Castaneda and others report that sorcerers/brujos/healers exercise their "art" mostly through natural techniques (that they have been initiated to and finally have learnt to master), so they only need/choose to take psy drugs as a "power tool" for very special rituals/ceremonies because they either know/feel this is the way to go for a certain particular case or because they do it traditionally with the ones of their group as a way of communion/celebration with a special meaning (i.e ritual peyote celebration for instance). When they feel that psy drugs arn't absolutely necessary for their purpose they stick to natural techniques.

always keep in mind that drugs arn't the "key point" of sorcery, magick, shamanism or call it whatever you want to...psy drugs are only a tiny secondary ramification of the whole thing, drugs are not a "necessary" path in anyway and are even supposed to be used only in some very special occasions, for specific purposes.

I would even add that using drugs in the wrong way (meaning with no point, stupidly or too often) can be a serious obstacle to learning sorcery or such (can easly get you lost from yourself and your way which won't help learning and practicing such a delicate "art" as sorcery which necessitate some "impecability and moderation" as castaneda calls it).

Shamans also think that psy drugs are much too powerful tools to be used in an inconsistent way, for instance in the movie "other worlds" the shaman says about ayahuasca that it can be very dangerous for both the body and spirit to use it recreationally, and another guy interviewed called Moebius (just see his works, mainly comics, which are incredible) say the exact same thing about drugs that most would consider "less formidable" than ayahuasca and that many consider as "of no consequence" or better say "commonplace": he says he's just astonished at the idea that some people are using mushrooms "lightly" as a "mind fun tool" when he spent all his life integrating one single experience he had from these 20 years ago...which I completely agree, shrooms did a lot of harm to me and I understand that's because they contain much to much power so I could use these "lightly" which unfortunately I did...and I'm convinced that not many people can use these "lightly" with no consequences (particularly if your "mixing" these with some esoteric/sorcery fun that you're also approaching in an "inconsitent" way).


As it's not the point of this thread I'm not evocating the matter of "emotionally unstable people getting even more lost" or the matter of "sects, gurus & manipulations" which are both commonplace in the esoteric background I guess...super-powers, "rising out of the masses", social recognition and self recognition hahahahaha what a delicious and disgusting fantasm, can't you see it?

[Sick Jack]

Alright ! Thanks for your comments guys !

@Alfa
So in a certain way we can already consider the "metaprogramming theory" as a sort of modern magick. It help me a lot in the pass.

I will try to consult the links that you posted, thank you !

@Genaro
I saw "other worlds" many times, Kounen did the job with a lot of care and respect, he shows the potential benefits of such practices but places clear warnings all other the documentary

[Alfa]

Rituals are a way of metaprogramming, as everything is symbolising that which the ritual is concentrated on.

[Heretic.Ape.]

I am intoning a resurrection hex on this thread. It's rather old but I'd love to see if anyone has anything new to add.
Labmonkey did an experiment with p cubensis as potentiators for magickal operations:
see breif description here http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...841#post262841

I've been studying hermeticism, gnosticism, shamanism, vajrayana, vedantic philosophy, among others over the past several years and have been suprised at the uncanny similarities between things monkey has told me about his thoughts / experiences in psycheledic states and the writings from these systems.
Has anybody heard anything about the combination of entheogens and ceremonial magick or something of that type? It seems like people like Crowley may as well have been talking about training people for psychonautic experiments. Get what I mean?

[eltimmy]

Beautiful as a system of regimenting thought processes.

I haven't gone much deeper than that yet.

[eltimmy]

Of course, within that ... is everything.

LITERALLYLITERALLYLITERALLY

[enquirewithin]

Originally Posted by heretic.ape.

Has anybody heard anything about the combination of entheogens and ceremonial magick or something of that type? It seems like people like Crowley may as well have been talking about training people for psychonautic experiments. Get what I mean?

Crowley drugs as part of his magickal rituals. He used peyote, hashish, cocaine, ether, heroin-- and anything else he could get his hands on!

He died a heroin addict. He was something of a poineer and wrote a lot about drugs He wasn't unaware of the negative effects, which he summarised as:

Alcohol: well known.
Hashish: insanity.
Chloroform: few cases known.
Opium (smoking): bad results rare.
Morphine: nervous collapse, madness, insomnia, digestive trouble.
Ether: the alcohol plus paralysis.
Cocaine: nervous collapse, insanity.
Laudanum: see De Quincey, Coleridge, and Wilkie Collins.
Heroin: like Morphine, with great dullness and depression.

http://www.spiralnature.com/bio/crowleya/acdrugs.html

[Euthanatos93420]

Here are a few more links from a place I know. SOme of them may overlap so forgive me I just cut/pasted the coding.

--Reference--
http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Main_Page

--Meditation-
http://www.jamesclairlewis.com/pages...cs/occult.html"

General Occult/Other--
http://www.halexandria.org/
http://www.hermetics.org/home.html


--Magick--
http://www.chaosmatrix.org
http://www.chaosmagic.com/
http://iota.goetia.net/
http://www.templex.org/
--Libraries--
http://www.the-equinox.org/

http://www.rawilson.com/
http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm
http://www.hermetic.com/"
http://www.hermeticfellowship.org/HFCollectHermRed.html
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/texts.html
http://www.gnosis.org/welcome.html
http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/tup-onl.htm
http://www.theosophical.ca/OnLineDocs.htm
http://www.esotericarchives.com/esoteric.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/ab6/imuhtuk/
http://www.swedenborg.org/library.cfm
http://www.rsarchive.org/
http://www.rosicrucian.com/describe.htm
http://www.divinescience.com/links/texts_nt.htm
http://www.spiritwritings.com/library.html

Reputation Comments on this post:

	thank you for the links! do you think you could repost them in the Occult social group?
	great resources

[ernestrome]

Another helpful link is The open source order of the golden dawn.

www.osogd.org

[Euthanatos93420]

You know, it occurs to me that here Crowley references one of the negative side effects of 'Hashish' as 'insanity'. The effects of 'Hashish' by the middle eastern 'Assasins', of whom the term was coined after and derived from Hashish, noted effect of an empowering nature. Now maybe I just haven't read enough accounts of Hashish and since I haven't smoked it myself but I just don't see how this could be Marijuana.

Is there something else that can be derived from Marijuana via some lost chemistry formula? Was there something added to it historically that we have forgotten/lost that these people refer to?

euthanatos93420 added 859 Minutes and 56 Seconds later...

Also on these forums:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...d.php?p=498071

And our occult user group:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/group.php?groupid=61

[Bajeda]

Do a search for and read some accounts of hashish smoking and eating on the forums.