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  #1  
Old 05-04-2012, 19:14
MachoManSavage MachoManSavage is offline
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How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

Basically, my best friend has been using kratom for 2 years or so, pretty much everyday. 5 grams (he finds he doesn't need more, probably being the only man on earth whose tolerance does not grow from use).

He finds it easy to quit, that is, he can go without physical withdrawal. However, what is haunting him is the looming depression that floats above his head. He managed 10 days clean, but managed to still have depressive symptoms, so he just went back to using kratom. He described his symptoms as extreme fatigue, dizzyness, hopelessness, boredom, and overall blank-mindness.

He needs advice on how long this misery can last, or if it ever ceases to exist. He can do a month of depression if it's pretty much guaranteed that he'll get better. But as it stands now, he is feeling really, really bleak that maybe he just "used up all the happy chemicals in his head" and that depression will last forever. Any help will be appriciated.
  #2  
Old 05-04-2012, 19:56
ianzombie ianzombie is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

There is no set amount of time. Things like this will differ from person to person.

Personally, after a couple of years of daily use i would be expecting a couple of weeks of being emotional and somewhat depressed. After that i have another couple of weeks before the Restless Leg Syndrome calms down enough for it to stop bothering me.

What you are doing during these weeks will effect how you cope.
If your sitting around moping then the mental aspect will be harder to deal with. because your constantly thinking about it.

Get active, get out of the house as soon as possible and keep yourself busy.
If your sitting around then read, watch movies, play games or instruments, but dont sit there feeling sorry for yourself if possible.

Go for walks, go to the gym and exercise. Eat and live as healthy as possible. Avoid drugs and drink.

When you quit did you try to taper down at all, or did you just jump off cold turkey?

The withdrawals can be reduced to almost nothing if you takethe time and do a slow taper, by reducing from 5 grams to 4 grams for a few days, then 4 grams to 3 grams for another few days untill you are down to 1 gram.
At 1 gram cut down by .25 grams every otherday untill you are down to only .25 grams.

At this stage (or before) many people will just quit, but i have found that if i continue to keep taking the kratom and reduce it by .5 grams every other day (or longer) untill i am down to only .5 grams, and then reducing that by .1 gram every other day, that i can come off the kratom almost withdrawal free.

The problem is gettingyour dose right down and then deciding to takea higher dose because you want to feel the buzz again.

I really recomend you do this, it is a lot easier tokeep positive after you quit kratom if you dont have any withdrawals to deal with.
Things can still be hard, like when you quit any drug there is an emptyness that is hard to fill, but if you keep busy and do things to keep your mind off it you will get over it.

A problem i run into a lot is not just missing the effects after i quit, but also missing the ceremony of making the tea, which is why i think a long taper also helps despite taking so little towards the end. Ive found when i come off thefinal dose that switching to green tea ora herbal tea helps with this.
I empty a bag of tea and weigh out a tiny dose, as if it was kratom and this helps in its own way.

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Good advice but it can be v.difficult/near impossible to get active when you feel so depressed.
Excellent advice and very true words.
  #3  
Old 07-04-2012, 01:20
raek raek is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

can you wean off the stuff? use it less and less, and then just get the stem powder that is meant to only keep away withdrawal, then use that less and less as well. Also, i started taking st. johns wort, and find now that my off days are a lot better depression and anxiety wise.
  #4  
Old 07-04-2012, 18:48
MachoManSavage MachoManSavage is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

Thanks for the advice ianzombie.

As for weaning myself off it, honestly, I don't really need to when I quit. I can stand any physical displeasure (which isn't much). It's all about this ongoing depression I have, which is getting worse and worse. Sometimes I think it's not even withdrawal making me depressed, rather the kratom. *sign*


For the St. Johns Wort, I tried it, made me feel weird. I'm willing to try it again though. I've also tried Celexa and Effexor (anti depressents), which had negative side effects. And finally, I've tried 5HTP, which made me extremely tired and made me cry everyday. I'm just on vitamins now, praying to God that this depression goes away.

I know my topic was about depression post-kratom use, but I would also like to know if anyone has experience with GETTING depression with extended kratom use.



Btw, one question. What is the rules with the "not incriminating yourself" thing? I wrote my topic in all "my friend is this" but then surfing the boards, so few people actually follow these rules. Is kratom an exception because it's legal? How about vitamins/coffee? Do I have to pretend that someone else is doing that?
  #5  
Old 08-04-2012, 01:08
ianzombie ianzombie is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

If you are not sure about the rules then take a few minutes to read them again.
It is only necessary to watch self incrimination when discussing drug growing/production.

If you are worried that your depression is down to more than kratom or kratom withdrawals then i would recomend you go and talk to your doctor. Even if it is not kratom related the peace of mind might help.
  #6  
Old 13-04-2012, 22:22
MachoManSavage MachoManSavage is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

Yeah, I'm seeking the aid from a psychologist next month. I'm also heavy into reading cognitive behavior books for depression. I'm also taking 5htp, vitamins, l tyrosine and phenibut (occasionally) to fight off depression symtoms.

I just find it so hard to quit primarily from the "why not" reasoning that always plagues me when I quit kratom. I always end up buying it again and consuming it... then going "wait a second, didn't I quit today?".

I'm going to give it 2 weeks after I finish my exams. 2 weeks are enough to gauge out if kratom is causing depression or not, I think.
  #7  
Old 14-04-2012, 05:45
FenixDelta753 FenixDelta753 is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

How is the phenibut working for you? I dont remember if you said whether or not you said if you liked it in another thread or not. I personally found that it eliminated my need for kratom but at the same time I was able to keep my use of phenibut under control very easily.
  #8  
Old 14-04-2012, 09:32
Sargent Leper Sargent Leper is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

I have never heard of that drug..? I'm assuming it's an opiate based on other people's responses.
First, sorry to hear about your boyfriend. As far as how long the depression lasts, it kind of depends on his use, that is how often, how long , how much? I only know about heroin withdrawals so if it helps I'll tell you my experiences. There were a few different stages in my use. That is to say my kicks were easier in the beginning, and toward the end when I was using more and started needles, it got bad.
I'm just gonna guess, and I'm sorry if I'm wrong but, I'm betting these are some sort of opiate pills? In which case he shouldn't be too bad off. He's got you which is great. I would say that after 3 4 days it should get better. I'm sorry I can't quite remember your post fully now but I don't think you said he had any other symtoms? If I'm wrong, other symptoms include, vomiting, running eye's and nose, yawning, hot and cold flashes, restlessness, insomnia, poops, sometimes the opposite constipation. Any way most of these symptoms can be treAted normally like you would any other sickness, imodium, aspirin, etc.
I really hope I don't offend you, it's not my intention, and I don't know how close you are with your boy friend, but the best cure for dope sickness is sex. And you can ask anybody I'm nor making it up. The depression he is expierAncing is due to a lack of endorphines in his brain. The drugs turn on the flood gates but when its over, you get the opposite effect so To get those natural endorphins going sex and or exercise. Warm baths are nice. As far as pills go (I don't know how you feel about that but) if someone in your family or a friend has anxiety problems and has any pills from the benzodiazepine group i.e. valum, xanax, Ativan, klonopin, and many more
Good luck
Your a great girlfriend
  #9  
Old 14-04-2012, 16:28
FenixDelta753 FenixDelta753 is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

Check out the wiki on kratom if that's what you mean, it's not even related to the opium poppy but it has alkaloids within the plant that strongly affect the opioid receptors within the brain. But the wiki can do a better job at explaining how awesome the kratom plant can't be as well as some of it's not so fun effects.
  #10  
Old 14-04-2012, 16:31
MachoManSavage MachoManSavage is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FenixDelta753 View Post
How is the phenibut working for you? I dont remember if you said whether or not you said if you liked it in another thread or not. I personally found that it eliminated my need for kratom but at the same time I was able to keep my use of phenibut under control very easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargent Leper View Post
I have never heard of that drug..? I'm assuming it's an opiate based on other people's responses.
First, sorry to hear about your boyfriend. As far as how long the depression lasts, it kind of depends on his use, that is how often, how long , how much? I only know about heroin withdrawals so if it helps I'll tell you my experiences. There were a few different stages in my use. That is to say my kicks were easier in the beginning, and toward the end when I was using more and started needles, it got bad.
I'm just gonna guess, and I'm sorry if I'm wrong but, I'm betting these are some sort of opiate pills? In which case he shouldn't be too bad off. He's got you which is great. I would say that after 3 4 days it should get better. I'm sorry I can't quite remember your post fully now but I don't think you said he had any other symtoms? If I'm wrong, other symptoms include, vomiting, running eye's and nose, yawning, hot and cold flashes, restlessness, insomnia, poops, sometimes the opposite constipation. Any way most of these symptoms can be treAted normally like you would any other sickness, imodium, aspirin, etc.
I really hope I don't offend you, it's not my intention, and I don't know how close you are with your boy friend, but the best cure for dope sickness is sex. And you can ask anybody I'm nor making it up. The depression he is expierAncing is due to a lack of endorphines in his brain. The drugs turn on the flood gates but when its over, you get the opposite effect so To get those natural endorphins going sex and or exercise. Warm baths are nice. As far as pills go (I don't know how you feel about that but) if someone in your family or a friend has anxiety problems and has any pills from the benzodiazepine group i.e. valum, xanax, Ativan, klonopin, and many more
Good luck
Your a great girlfriend
No, it's not my boyfriend (I'm a straight male), it's me going through withdrawal. I just didn't know the rules before posting that message, I thought we were still on that SWIM crap.

As for kratom, it's an opiod, which has similar effects to opiates but isn't an opiate. SO I don't experience any severe physical effects when quitting, just low energy and depression. Oh, and anxiety. And honestly, I'd rather have gut wrenching stomach pains for a week straight than constant depression and fatigue with no end in sight.

As for the Phenibut, I take it because it sometimes works on me (though I can't tell if it's placebo or not). I just get talkative with friends and act more relaxed, but again, it's so subtle that I don't know if it the phenibut doing the work or not.
  #11  
Old 14-04-2012, 17:42
FenixDelta753 FenixDelta753 is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

What are you dosing with the phenibut? If it's a decent amount like a gram, that's what I need to get amphetamine like stimulation and focus for a few hours.
  #12  
Old 14-04-2012, 18:04
MachoManSavage MachoManSavage is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

I don't have a scale, so I don't know exact doses (shame on me, but it's not a dangerous substance for me to worry too much).

I eyeball roughly the same amount that would fit into a 500 mg gelcap. Is phenibuts density different than most powders though? How much should 1 gram look like?

Ive experimented with larger and smaller doses, and found that the smaller the dose is, the better I feel. Typically, the larger doses had me cloudy the whole day. And I don't use phenibut much, since it doesn't work on me full stop, where as kratom ALWAYS hits me with that warm, blankety feel. *sigh* I have an essay to write, I probably shouldn't be focused on kratom.

How do you ingest your phenibut, Fenix? I find that putting the sour chemical in water makes for a delicious drink (like a lemonade without sugar, lol).
  #13  
Old 14-04-2012, 18:34
FenixDelta753 FenixDelta753 is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

I find that the powder is fairly dense and 1.1g just slightly over fills a 00 capsule but not enough so that I can't close it. That's how I usually take it, two or three caps a day and I'm good to go.

1g is both ends of a capsule just about full and 1.2 or so is both end caps completely but that can make it difficult to close. I'm only talking about 00 size caps mind you.

For me it seems that capsules hit me stronger and longer as opposed to dissolving it in water. The taste was never much fun for me either.
  #14  
Old 05-05-2012, 16:29
rskx01 rskx01 is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MachoManSavage View Post
As for weaning myself off it, honestly, I don't really need to when I quit. I can stand any physical displeasure (which isn't much). It's all about this ongoing depression I have, which is getting worse and worse. Sometimes I think it's not even withdrawal making me depressed, rather the kratom. *sign*
You don't just wean yourself off to negate the physical withdrawal symptoms, the 'depression' you're experiencing is also a symptom of withdrawal, albeit psychological.

To put it plainly, for two years opiod receptors in your brain have become accustomed to the opioid's your daily kratom intake was providing. Your complete removal of kratom has left all of these receptors crying out for their usual opioid intake but you're not ingesting kratom so these aren't available; hence you're feeling the consequences with a shitty mood and overall 'blah' mental state.

The purpose of a taper is to gradually wean these receptors off their opioid dependence, for simplicity say you take 5% less kratom, 5% less receptors are getting their opioid intake and your mood is only affected by this 5% which weren't appeased. In time this 5% of receptors STFU so you can then continue to lower your dosage by 5% and continue to wean the next batch off. If you do this gradually you can avoid the mental aspects of withdrawal.

Since you're over the physical withdrawal I would find the dose that puts you in a positive mood and start the taper from there. I wouldn't mess with phenibut
  #15  
Old 09-05-2012, 00:37
MachoManSavage MachoManSavage is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

Alright, it's been exactly one week since my last dose, and I'm past the physical withdrawal, but the ever present depression kicks in.

I work out, try to keep busy, take vitamin b/tyrosine/piracetam, drink plenty of water, and take the occasional phenibut, but nothing. I'm getting more and more depressed to the point where I don't think I'll ever get better. Anyone have a number, any arbitrary number of days that this will last? I know everyone is different, but is there a decided number on how long the long term withdrawal lasts? I am dying for more kratom, but fighting it off hoping I'll somehow get better.

Oh, and I heard about lopermide being helpful, since it's an opiate without euphoria. Should I look into this, despite it being a week since I last enjoyed kratom?
  #16  
Old 09-05-2012, 04:08
ellisd ellisd is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

Yeah the depressions sucks and it can last for various intervals, for different people, as ianzombie already stated BUT IT DOES GO AWAY OVER TIME. Hang in there and remember that it will go away over time. I think it broke for me sometime after week after quitting and maybe lingered on a bit more for another week but it was manageable.

The key is to just stay positive, take it day by day [each day gets better , believe me], keep eating healthy, exercise and all that.

I started a thread a while back on this exact same subject and the responses were very helpful for me. See > Opinions - Tips/Tricks for Combating Depression During Kratom Withdrawal/Tapering - Drugs Forum

Each day gets better and I wish you all the best [:

Also wanted to add that Loperamide will probably be of no use now unless one is still feeling stomach cramps or whatever.

5-HTP, SAMe, St John's Wort, L-Trosine, etc might be worth looking into.

Last edited by ellisd; 09-05-2012 at 20:25.
  #17  
Old 09-05-2012, 17:10
MachoManSavage MachoManSavage is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellisd View Post
Yeah the depressions sucks and it can last for various intervals for different people as ianzombie already started BUT IT DOES GO AWAY OVER TIME. Hang in there and remember that it will go away over time. I think it broke for me sometime after week after quitting and maybe lingered on a bit more for another week but it was manageable.

The key is to just stay positive, take it day by day [each day gets better , believe me], keep eating healthy, exercise and all that.

I started a thread a while back on this exact same subject and the responses were very helpful for me. See > Opinions - Tips/Tricks for Combating Depression During Kratom Withdrawal/Tapering - Drugs Forum

Each day gets better and I wish you all the best [:

Also wanted to add that Loperamide will probably be of no use now unless one is still feeling stomach cramps or whatever.

5-HTP, SAMe, St John's Wort, L-Trosine, etc might be worth looking into.
Hey man, I remember reading your thread a while back when I first tried quitting.

Thanks for the positivity. It helps greatly. I'm however finding it to be getting worse and worse daily. I started with "I'ma go straight edge, I got the power, this isn't too bad!" to "God, wouldn't it be nice to wrap myself in the warm kratom blanket now?". Ugh. But as you say, take it day by day, and hopefully somewhere around the 2-3 week mark this will magically get better. I guess my opiate receptors are empty now and that's the reason for the depression.

Thanks for the list of supplements, but I've tried all those.

5HTP- I found that not only does it make me EXTREMELY fatigue, but it makes me cry uncontrolably through out the next day. No go.
SJW- Could be placebo, but I felt weird after 4 days of use so I discontinued it.
L tyrosine - I take it daily with no actual effects that I am aware of.
SAMe-The other 2 anti depressent like drugs didn't work, so I don't know about spending even more money on something that probably won't work that well.

The only 2 things I found that can genuinly help me during these withdrawals are phenibut and valerian root. Valerian knocks me out almost as swiftly as a benzo (I don't know how this is possible) and phenibut removes alot of stress and anxiety, but I'm wary of this because of the addiction it can pose (I take it twice a week).
  #18  
Old 01-07-2012, 02:55
raek raek is offline
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Re: How long does depression last after the withdrawal?

Hmm, i'm having this problem now too. I've been off kratom for about a week and the first few days were O-K because I had hopes that each day would get better. Instead each day is getting worse now, and I feel horrible today. I am not taking very good care of myself though and not keeping busy at all. I was at first, but the last 2 days have been too difficult. I was not expecting this from kratom. The worst part is that my kratom tolerance is so high that I don't get the euphoria anymore but rather get nasty side effects an hour after taking. Vomitting brain fog and irritability. I feel pressured to go back to kratom because the depression is so horrible, but I feel horrible on kratom too.

During the 2nd month of my kratom use I took a 7 day break and remember feeling back to normal on day 7. This gave me a false sense of safety with kratom, that it would only take 7 days, ignorant that perhaps it would get worse with time...

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