Injecting - Collective thoughts on IV drug use

[Beltane]

This may get moved, but most IV drug users are into H it seems w small and smaller minorities like coke and ketamine.

I read, and SWIM knows, that the needle is often an addiction of its own. Considering that and how much SWIM had to learn the hard way before meeting people at the needle exchange, I thought it miight be fun to share some collective wisdom on the IV part of our proclivity.

SWIM blew out his 2 best veins (inner arm) from missing and bad form before he got help.

He fixed for the first time yesterday in a public bathroom and as he didn't feel comfortable tying off (shot was all ready) he put his hand and arm thru the fly of his boxers and, using that as a tourniquet, was astounded to see and nail on the first try a vein on the blade/outer edge of his palm.

SWIM used to be afraid of hand shots and is now very comfortable with them. Tells people who ask that his cat plays rough.

Before the needle exchange, SWIM would use a point at least 10 times, sharpening between uses on a matchbook.

When SWIM reallly needs to hit he'll be looking at hands or, if they're not overworked, one of the big veins on the back of each forearm.

SWIM feels cool, like a Dr. when things go smooth and gets pissed when something gets fuckekd up.

SWIM's learned through practice to be very deliberate on 2nd and 3rd swings after an initial miss and no longer just jabs away.

SWIM learned, and it heped a lot, that the pain is just part of it. If one dreads it too much, as SWIM used to, needlework is sloppy leading to even more misses.

SWIM almost always has a good shot first one of the day; go figure.

After pulling point out, SWIM 99.99% of the time draws up and ejects water to keep rig somewhat clean. Due to needoe exchange SWIM 9.99% of the time uses new needles.

SWIM loses veins mid shot all the time, prompting his buddies to both advise and simulltaneous on flashing about 3 times per sho.

It's cool when someone hits, registers and then stops to take off the tie (like you're supposed to) witout losing the vein. SWIM can't d that.

What wisdom, knowledge and/or stories do you have to pass around about needles?

- Beltane

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great idea for post - nice n light

[Jatelka]

SWIY should use a clean rig (needle, syringe EVERYTHING) every time they inject. They should use an alco-wipe to clean the skin beforehand. They should use sterile water to draw up their drugs. They should dispose of their sharps carefully. They should NOT share any equipment with other iv users (even spoons can become contaminated with miniscule blood particles). They should seek help sooner rather than later if they have missed a vein or are concerned that they may be developing a DVT or abscess.

Do NOT, under any circumstances dig around blindly looking for a vein (especially in the groin). The needle is getting blunter and you are increasing your risk of infection and/or inadvertant intra-arterial injection (think embolus and death).

Reputation Comments on this post:

good advice as always

[Beltane]

Thanks, Mom.

Seriously tho, I'm a regular at the exchange and I'm safe. Mostly I was hoping to talk about what for me, and for others I talk to and read about, becomes a separate obsession/preoccupation with the needle/injection part of drug use rather than talk about needle safety.

Right on w/ your info tho.

- B

[Forthesevenlakes]

ugh, be careful with that needle addiction. swim hasnt experienced it, but a friend of swim's did, and was remarkably poor at hitting veins. when questioned about injecting after missing so many times, swim's friend responded that there no longer seemed any other sensible way to administer drugs. so definitely the route swiy chooses to administer can creater a certain pleasure or expectation behind it, swim believes the term for it can be encompassed in the term 'situational tolerance'.

[Beltane]

SWIM definitely has a thing for needles. It's gotta be something that includes the skill of successful IV hitting b/c his favorite is Ketamine and he only does that IM now and those needles do nothing for him. But yeah, he'd IV about anything he could.

- B

[Alicia]

lol.. a syringe is just a tool to deposit a drug into the body instantly that is all, although the build up to as your about to push the plunger down on the syringe before it comes on can be excite able swim knows this. Swim would not put anything into her arms, dont know about needle fixation but swim understands cutting concepts with self harm in her boyo and thats an endorphin rush granted not comparing to shooting smack , but psychological build up before he cuts is immense, almost sexual.

[Fantasian]

A short while ago SWIM was quite a severe self injurer when he went through a bad part of his life, this meant then when SWIM used a needle he got an effects from the injury of the needle and an effect from the drug. SWIM is a long way from there now and wouldnt really use a needle as a method of admininstration even though he is trained to do so.

[Beltane]

Originally Posted by Fantasian

A short while ago SWIM was quite a severe self injurer when he went through a bad part of his life, this meant then when SWIM used a needle he got an effects from the injury of the needle and an effect from the drug. SWIM is a long way from there now and wouldnt really use a needle as a method of admininstration even though he is trained to do so.

But when done properly, as you are trained to do, there are little if any deleterious effects from using a needle as a method of administration.

Also, it would seem wise to consider that the method of administration is influenced by the substance being administered. One may find that one enjoys the feeling of IV heroin while taking issue with some aspect of smoking it.

SWIM likes IM K. If his only method of admin available was insufflation, he wouldn't bother. If you need the needle to take a certain drug, then you're likely gonna use a needle.

Still, glad you're not hurting yourself on purpose any more.

- Beltane

[Fantasian]

Originally Posted by Beltane

Still, glad you're not hurting yourself on purpose any more.

- Beltane

me? I never did that i was speaking about SWIM .

Also SWIM might say that taking any form of drug is hurting yourself to some desgree, sometimes SWIM wonders whether he is just replacing old habits with new ones.

[Beltane]

"Life is a double-edged sword." - Me.

You take a drug, you "hurt yourself," and in the process you examine your own existence in a new and expansive way which leads eventually to deeper levels of happiness, purpose and meaning that you spontaneously share with others for the rest of your life.

It's all in how you choose to look at it. On the one hand you may be hurting yourself. And on the other...

“There is nothing good or bad; but thinking makes it so." - Shakespeare

You're young; trying thinking lighter thoughts.

- Beltane

[raven3davis]

SWIM is all for responsible IV drug use, but he would hardly define your use as anywhere near responsible. Use a clean rig every time. Scraping a needle on a matchbook might sharpen it but you are also increasing the chances of an infection. You should swab the site with alcohol every time and use a clean rig every time.

Sharpening a needle on a matchbook just seems like it has bad idea written all over it.

Reputation Comments on this post:

B did not say PAST use was safe!

[Beltane]

Originally Posted by raven3davis

SWIM is all for responsible IV drug use, but he would hardly define your use as anywhere near responsible. Use a clean rig every time. Scraping a needle on a matchbook might sharpen it but you are also increasing the chances of an infection. You should swab the site with alcohol every time and use a clean rig every time.

Sharpening a needle on a matchbook just seems like it has bad idea written all over it.

SWIM views responsibility re: IV drug use as a scale and he's aware of and comfortble with his chosen position on this scale.

Blah, blah, blah, clean rig every time. You think I don't know this? Sometimes one doesn't have a new rig. At these times one must make a decision as to whether to re-use a rig. NE's provide bleach kits for cleaning rigs, therefore at least some people are re-using them. Therefore there is no cardinal rule against re-using a rig, though a new rig would obviously be preferable.

SWIM read a great book called _The Heroin Users Guide._ He found this book to be an objective look at a broad range of topics related to Heroin, including needle care. The sharpening instructions were printed in this book. If one makes a decision to re-use a rig, one must decide which presents a greater danger, a dull rig or the chance of infection from sharpening it.

It's annoying to read over and over things like 'use a clean rig every time,' as if the poster is passing on this gem of information that others may have misseed, instead of preaching to people who have doubtless all been told to use clean rigs everytime and have made their own decisions regarding this advice and moved on with their lives. Everyoe knows that if they have a clean rig they should use it. In an ideal world there'd never be a reason to re-use a rig, but this is not an ideal world.

- Beltane

[zero]

Yeah it's rare to find an IV heroin user who just chips. Even if they do, chances are they won't chip forever, they'll eventually develope a habit. My point is this... they're NOT going to use a clean rig every time, just ain't gon' happen.


In the past when SWIM chipped here and there he used clean rigs pretty much all of the time. But when he was deep in the shit, Jesus, he would use the same outfit until he couldn't anymore. Not smart but a reality when you're a junky. Don't get him started on the toilet water.

Reputation Comments on this post:

can so relate to all of this message!

[raven3davis]

no need to take offense to the suggestions. There is a reason why so many people are saying to use a clean rig every time.

You asked for SWIMs knowledge of syringes and he gave it to you. You should use a clean rig every time and alcohol swab the injection site before you inject every time. You should also never share equipment or needles, but this too some junkies will do in desparation.

It might be annoying to read these suggestions but you asked for other swims to pass along any knowledge they had and that is exactly what SWIM did. Sorry if that advise annoys you, but in swims opinion it is probably the single most important piece of advise you can give an IV user.

This is by no means a perfect world, but when using drugs via IV you want to be as perfect in technique as you can.

Some may take this advise and others may not. Either way, just be safe and know the limits of your body because you can only take it so far before it will shut the fuck down.

SWIM would strongly recommend against sharpening needles on a matchbook but if you decide to do so, please take the time to clean the needle with bleach. sorry if swim offended you but the importance of needle saftey can never be expressed too often.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good advice

[TXRoughneck]

SWIM views responsibility re: IV drug use as a scale and he's aware of and comfortble with his chosen position on this scale.

Blah, blah, blah, clean rig every time. You think I don't know this?

Thank you! We know this, and in fact, we also know that our SWIM friends shouldn't be engaging in the use of illicit drugs at all. But yet, here we are. SWIX also got fairly adept at hand & forearm/wrist shots, but he did have one tip to offer. If you can get your hands on one, an IV extension set is an invaluable tool to have as you're pretty much guaranteed to hit and keep that vein throughout the shot (at least in his experience). Basically, it is a tube between the syringe and the needle. You can hold the needle very steady in one hand, while using the hand of the arm you are hitting to draw back & plunge. Of course, this means you'd need to hit more proximal veins, but they are bigger and easier to maintain during a shot.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good Point 1

[Beltane]

I concede all your points. And SWIM uses a clean point pretty much every time, exchanging up 10 200/wk. Guess after people were done w/ the obligatory rhetoric, SWIM was hoping to hear some "cooler" stuff about someone history w/ IV drus.

Like when SWIM found there was a fairly accessible vein that ran along the chopping edge of his palm. Or when swim first found that he could hit either the vein that ran up the back of his thumb, or the one that ran down over the front of the meaty part of the thumb. Or the time SWIM hit vein that ran over the front of his shin. Or the time he hit a vein that went over the knuckle of his big toe, now that was surprising.

SWIM is becoming more and more decidicated to needle safety and was, by his own standards, pretty safe already.

- Beltane

Originally Posted by raven3davis

no need to take offense to the suggestions. There is a reason why so many people are saying to use a clean rig every time.

You asked for SWIMs knowledge of syringes and he gave it to you. You should use a clean rig every time and alcohol swab the injection site before you inject every time. You should also never share equipment or needles, but this too some junkies will do in desparation.

It might be annoying to read these suggestions but you asked for other swims to pass along any knowledge they had and that is exactly what SWIM did. Sorry if that advise annoys you, but in swims opinion it is probably the single most important piece of advise you can give an IV user.

This is by no means a perfect world, but when using drugs via IV you want to be as perfect in technique as you can.

Some may take this advise and others may not. Either way, just be safe and know the limits of your body because you can only take it so far before it will shut the fuck down.

SWIM would strongly recommend against sharpening needles on a matchbook but if you decide to do so, please take the time to clean the needle with bleach. sorry if swim offended you but the importance of needle saftey can never be expressed too often.

[zero]

Yeah, I don't know how "cool" this stuff is but here's some of SWIM's experience with needles...

He started with the usual suspects... veins on the inside of the elbow joints and inner forearms. No problems at first because the dope was white.

He moved to Cali and wrecked those veins with black tar.

He then started to use the veins on his ankles and top of the feet. Blew those out, got an abcess in his ankle and removed it himself with a razor... permanent scar, sensory loss.

He then got creative and started to hit all of the tiny veins in those painful places. Fingers, toes, wrists, bottom of the feet, palms. Upper forearms, thighs, anywhere he could find one. Not pretty. You can see a few places where it looks like he got stabbed with a pencil, which is what he tells people, but we know that's not the case.

It got even worse when SWIM started to shoot speedballs. Ever been in the mirror with a belt around your neck trying to shoot heroin and coke into your neck? Feels great but I wouldn't say it's cool.

The final frontier for SWIM, when all other routes were not working out, was the big fat vein that runs down the center of the male genitalia. Ouch. He once broke a needle while shooting in his cock. The shot went in and as he was pulling the rig out it broke. SWIM was so high from the coke/heroin that he though the needle was actually lost in his cock, freaked out, tried to squeeze and push the skin around to see if was actually in there. It wasn't but he thought it was for a few days. Not pretty.

That being said, he rarely ever gets high anymore, however he still fetishizes the needle. Go figure.

[zero]

Mmm... smell those brakes?

[raven3davis]

SWIMs buddies imaginary friend just shot up hydromorphone.......more thoughts soon to come.

he said it lasted a few good hours. The come up happened within what seemed to be about 5 seconds after iving. She said she shot it into her hand with an insuling syringe. She jabbed it in her hand and tried to see if it registered and it did not. She tried again and just pulled another bubble. On the third try she got a vein. She was not sticking it in far enough she thinks. She was right on the vein each time but she must have barel been poking the skin. THis shot was just less than 4mg which was not enough to really nod.

~15 minutes later the other 4+abit more millagrams were shor into the right hand. This time she hit the vein on the first try and shot it. She came up even more about 5 seconds later and then chilled for a while. She did puke about an hour into it and then about an hour later. She did not like the initial rush as much as she thought. The best part was when it started to wear off and jumped up again.

She used the same cotton to scab the injection area both times, but that really isnt a biggie. Different rigs were used both times. It just leaves a small mark. Overall it was not that much more intense than snorting she said bu she is still high. Maybe more to report later. please free to ask any questions about her technique and SWIM will ask her and post here.

[Beltane]

Sounds like fun. Why is SWIY injecting into her hand? From your description it sounds like this person is not experienced at IV. If not, and if not planning to become so, ask an experienced IV'er to shoot a neophyte up. In the long run it's just much less of a hassle.

IV injecting is an art all by itself. SWIM has used hand veins, tho when he did so before he really knew what he was doing, he did more harm than good. The normal arm veins that one sees in the movies really are best for beginners as they are the easiest. Also, if used sparingly, they will heal fast and leave no trace. One can also put a bandaid there and pick one of several excuses, i.e. doctor, plasma donation, blood donation, transfusion, etc.

Even feet, in SWIM's opinion, are better than hands as mistakes are more easily hidden and the targets are usually about the same.

Using the same cotton, in SWIM's opinion, is an easy mistake to avoid, but probably not that big a deal, especially if cleaning the area with alcohol as the alcohol will kill anything on the cotton each time it is applied. No reason not to use a new one tho.

More imporatant than changing cottons each shot is rotating injection areas. If rotated properly, shooting hydrmorphone, even once or twice a day, is unlikely to ever cause vein problems as there are so many spots SWIY could rest an area for a week easily between shots with a little effort.

Front, back, top, bottom of hand? Was the vein a roller? Back of the hand veins often are.

- Beltane

[raven3davis]

back of the hand she says. Was not hard at all. What do you mean roller? does that mean it rolls away when you poke it? SWIMSWAMSWUM and poked the top vein which is one of the biggest most noticable on her body two times before hitting. She was barely poking through the skin which must have been why. It hurts much less than IM she says and kicks in much faster obviously. The rush was not too interesting but maybe her dose was too low.

There is no mark on her hand and she injected the dope less than a day ago so she thinks she did a pretty good job. The only mistake was not going to deep the first two times. She also changed veins both injections.

why should she have not shot into her hand? everything is okay right now and she does not plan on shooting very often but her tecnique worked and caused little pain but she should have hit the first time.

[zero]

No one ever plans on shooting very often.. at first.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for honest input on IV/needles post

[Beltane]

Roller rolls away when you try to hit it.

Didn't say SWIY shouldn't shoot her hand, just remarking that the veins in the crook of most peoples' elbows are usually much more prominent and easier to hit as well as being easier to hide and/or explain. Nothing wrong with hand veins.

SWIM thinks IV is much more painful than IM. IM can be inserted like a dart all at once. To do IV properly, one must go slow which means the pain is dragged out over a longer period of time.

And Zero, thanks for your honesty and input. This is exactly the kind of thing SWIM needed to hear at this point in his career in order to keep from ending up somewhere he didn't want to be.

- Beltane

Originally Posted by raven3davis

back of the hand she says. Was not hard at all. What do you mean roller? does that mean it rolls away when you poke it? SWIMSWAMSWUM and poked the top vein which is one of the biggest most noticable on her body two times before hitting. She was barely poking through the skin which must have been why. It hurts much less than IM she says and kicks in much faster obviously. The rush was not too interesting but maybe her dose was too low.

There is no mark on her hand and she injected the dope less than a day ago so she thinks she did a pretty good job. The only mistake was not going to deep the first two times. She also changed veins both injections.

why should she have not shot into her hand? everything is okay right now and she does not plan on shooting very often but her tecnique worked and caused little pain but she should have hit the first time.

[raven3davis]

Can someone give SWIM tips on shooting up? Preferably tips on hitting the vein. How bad is it to use the same needle after a miss? After how many misses should SWIM consider using a new needle? SWIM has tried shooting in his hand and sometimes he just does not register when he pulls out the plunger.

What do most SWIM's do in this situation? Do you just "dig around" or do you take the needle out, get rid of the bubble, and try again?

What is everyones take on this? The sharper the needle the better, so it is obviously better to use a new needle everytime and try to reduce the number of misses, but what do most SWIMs do in case of a miss. SWIM assumes that most experienced IV users do not miss much but SWIM has only used drugs VIA IV a few times.

SWIM was also using longer needles which might be one reason it was hard to register.

Should SWIM quickly stab the vein so it does not move to the side? SWIM thinks he is not going in with enough force and the vein is moving off to the side because when SWIM tried to shoot up a bit of cocaine into his hand for practice, he registered ZERO times out of THREE attemptions! Two of these attemptions were into the back of the hand and the other one was on the same vein except on the top of SWIMs wrist.

Maybe SWIM is just using the wrong veins, SWIM just needs some advise from experienced users. approximately how far down should you stick the needle for most veins? SWIM thinks SWIM should just get shorter needles so the initial stab will be more accurate. Longer 100 unit needles also appear to be more of a burden to handle when shooting.

[Fantasian]

SWIM doesnt miss anymore but when he used to he'd still use a needle everytime but money wasnt that much of an issue for him in that respect. SWIM's veins are very good however and make it easy to hit. SWIM at first did have a problem with his veins moving but if a 35-45 degree angle is used and this injection is done slowly it can normally be preformed well. SWIM would insert the needle about 0.5 - 0.8 of an inch but it isnt important as long as SWIM as hit a vein.

SWIM finds smaller gauge shorter needles the best but all can be used.