Different colours of caapi

[sunyata]

I've seen a few vendors selling different kinds of caapi, red, yellow, black and white. Does anyone have any experience with these different varieties of the vine, or links to information about them?
Swim came into posession of some "white" caapi and the only thing he's been able to find are a few comments mentioning that it is harder to work with than the "yelllow", not saying wether it is the preparation or the experience which is difficult.
Any input on this would be appreciated.

Edit:I found this on wikipedia:

Types of vine
Although there is no apparent difference in species, the caapi vine is categorized by those who use it into several different types, each of which have different potencies, effects, and uses. Different categorizations may be used in different areas, and this list is not meant to be exhaustive or universally applicable.

[edit]
Peru
In Peru and other places, the different types of Caapi are referred to as different "colors".

Cielo (sky) or yellow caapi
Probably the most commonly used variety, at least among the mestizo curenderos of modern Amazonia. It is considered relatively gentle and is the typical vine used for initiation. Often has seven sections when viewed in cross-section.

Black caapi
There seem to be two varieties of black caapi, which may or may not be the same plant. They are often associated with witchcraft or brujeria, and should only be used by those who are very experienced with the medicine. Often has five sections when viewed in cross-section.

Thunder or trueno caapi
Brings on a particularly intense purge as well as other physical effects which are often very overwhelming.

Indian caapi
Perhaps the only variety of caapi that is not cultivated, but rather harvested from old-growth, unflooded, white sand rainforest. Use was believed to be more prevalent before contact with the west.

White caapi
Used most often in magic, both in brujeria and combating brujeria.

Red caapi
Considered very strong and used most often for healing; often, the curandero will take red caapi while their patient is given the yellow variety.

Rattle caapi or Ayahuasca cascabel.
Often considered the most potent variety of caapi; ayahuasca cascabel has been seen and experienced very little by westerners, if at all.

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Ecuador
In the Napo province of Ecuador, the vine is divided into three types. It is said that all are used for the same purposes, though the visions of each differ.

Ayahuasca de las Mujeres, Women's Ayahuasca
So named as it has bumps or protrusions, "like a woman". The effect is more rapid. Gives visions of flowers.

Ayahuasca de los Hombres, Men's Ayahuasca
Straighter than the women's Ayahuasca; gives visions of Boas.

Ayahuasca para Ver Fantasmas, Ayahuasca for seeing spirits
Has "designs" on the bark; gives visions of spirits.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good info that iv'e never read anywhere else on the net before! thanks - interesting
	nice compilation

[rxbandit]

originally groups such as the barasana indians of columbia distinguished the different types of caapi by the colors or type of visions they produce. Some cause red visions, while others form visions of people, while others will make one "fierce and strong". there are actually two seperate species of the vine banisteriopsis caapi and banisteriopsis inebrians, im pretty sure black caapi usually gives feelings of telepathy and time travel. im sorry i dont know more info about the specific variations of caapi but i found your post interesting.

[Silence_Inc]

yes, very interesting post ndeed ... the black caapi is linked with POWER and meets up with the darkside of the sjaman. one has to be experienced to know how to work with this vine.

[Phaedrus]

This might help:
http://www.biopark.org/peru/huascaspecies.html

[Hyperreal]

I've heard the doses for black caapi should be about two-thirds those for the yellow variety

[Ataraxia]

Each "color" of the vine represents the different ratios of the beta-carbolines. I couldn't tell you which colors have how much of each, but they all have different amounts of harmine, harmaline, and tetrahydroharmine.

The link Phaedrus posted gives a pretty good idea of what they're all about. In SWIM's opinion, yellow is the best way to go. It's much lighter on the stomach and body (with the exception of possibly white?), but gives you the visuals you're looking for.

Some people automatically go for red or black because they want to make sure they "get there." This is probably the most widely known mistake when dealing with aya. Black or Red will NOT give you stronger visions than yellow. It WILL give you a very strong purge, and a heavy body load. Such that you will feel like you're so seasick that you will be begging it to stop. Just thinking about it makes SWIM want to vomit.

You could do what Hyperreal said and take a smaller dose to prevent this, but then you're not going to get as far as you would with a full dose of yellow.

SWIM hasn't dealt with white, prefers yellow, likes red but doesn't recommend for first time, and hates black especially since some of the online vendors claiming they have it really have bunk batches.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great post, exactly what I was looking for, thanks:)

[sunyata]

Great input Ataraxia, and welcome to the forum That's very helpful information, I imagine that varieties other than cielo would require some previous experience with ayahuasca, the black and red ones sound heavy.

Do you know anyone who have used the white kind? SWIS managed to dream up some material, but was a bit put off when he read somewhere that it was used for necromancy, something SWIS doesn't feel mature enough to handle(nor does he know what to do with it). I guess it wouldn't be a problem unless one actively tried to engage in necromancy before and during the experience.

There must be people out there with some experiences on these varieties, since they have been sold for some time from different vendors. All this talk of necromancy and white and black magic should not prevent people from relating more "down to earth" ideas about their use.

[Ataraxia]

SWIM has never personally experienced white, but was told by the person who introduced him to aya that white is a little more "airy" than the other varieties. She also told him that it was the lightest of all her experiences. White will give SWIY the MAO inhibition to allow the DMT admixture to give way, but it probably won't give as strong of a body load as the other varieties, which is probably good for first timers.

As I said, SWIM hasn't tried it, but it seems to me that white caapi will give SWIY an experience closer to a light, time-released DMT experience. Since white probably doesn't have as many of the alkaloids as other varieties do to keep you grounded, it will seem more DMT like.

The association of white caapi and magic comes from the Shamans who use it in ritual, and they use each variety for different purposes. In SWIM's experiences each variety can actually get you to the same dream. The white produces a lighter DMT-like experience, so this is the only reason I can rationally think of why white is associated with necromantic dreams. What you said about engaging in it before and during the experience is exactly what I'm trying to get at. The Shaman purposely guide the dreamers to this point.

More than likely SWIY will not have a greater chance of running into warlocks and witches than with any other variety. Just don't worry about it, white is known to be a great starting point. SWIM's advice would be to just experiment with all of them and let Aya take you wherever she pleases.

Happy Dreams

Reputation Comments on this post:

Interesting!

[sunyata]

That's the information I needed, thanks a lot!
It does indeed seem like the white caapi would be best for introducing people to ayahuasca as I know a lot of people are put off by the idea of vomiting and shitting while they're coming up.
I was only half-joking about the necromancy, it would after all be too weird if it put you in contact with dead relatives and whatnot without you actively trying to achieve that "Grandpa! What are you doing in my vision?" "I came to tell you to cut your hair and get a decent job, you dirty dope-fiend grandson you!"

Thanks a lot for the information, I'm not so confused about this now as I was when I posted my question. SWIS will be sure to post his experiences with the white caapi when he gets around to trying it, it might be a while since it's high season at my workplace now.
Ohm

[Phaedrus]

Thats interesting - I didn't know necromancy was a usual component of Aya visions. It happens to me as part of a larger time compression in which everything is happening simultaneously. And I got the stern judgement thing from my father and grandfather who interacted with now me through the then me though he knew it was getting through to the now me though the now me and the then me were the same me and I guess they still are I'm just not as overtly aware of it. And that was just with Rue.
A friend has 4 oz yellow vine. He's thinking of using it solo first. Suggestions? Comments?

[Ataraxia]

I haven't met up with the syrian rue, but from all of the experiences I've heard about it, it seems like the rue brings on racing and simultaneous thoughts similar to that.

For first timers I would suggest either brewing with a group of experienced dreamers or having a sitter nearby in another room. I would also recommend trying the traditional ayahuasca before experimenting with the analogues. You said "that was just with Rue." Did SWIY add an admixture after the rue? Syrian rue is known to bring on MAO inhibition to the max. So if you did add the dimitri at the right dosage, you didn't experience just rue, you experienced a HEAVY time-released DMT experience.

If this is the case, you should have no worries about using it solo, you know what to expect. The yellow caapi will probably bring you to a much more pleasant place than the rue did. To me it sounds like rue just brings on a heavy dose of MAOI and lets the DMT take over. The vine will do this to a certain extent, but it's high concentration of beta-carbolines will also bring you to a less stir crazy, less intense, but much deeper dream.

Take your mother tea and find a nice place deep in the woods away from civilization. But don't forget the TP!

[Phaedrus]

My friend has experimented a bit with Rue/MHRB doses. That experience was with 3g Rue, 8g MHRB. He tried that combo with half the Rue and the high was almost all DMT lasted about three hours half of that tripping balls but lacking something, there's none of that feeling of healing, of Mother's arms, of little machine elves rushing through your body fixing things.
3g of Rue solo was weird lots of watery tracers and very high but no healing feeling either. It was lacking and empty too.
He's looking forward to the vine. Would an ounce be a good dose?
By the way, my friend lives in Antarctica.

[Ataraxia]

Dosage is kind of a tricky thing to give advice about. Aya has different effects on everyone, and has a lot to do with the prep and ingredients. What admixture is your friend planning on using? If it is MHRB, your friend would want to use about the same dosage he used with the rue.

As for the vine, the average person usually needs a minimum of 30g for MAO inhibition, and this is if most of it is absorbed before the purge. SWIM personally never doses with anything less than 50g of vine, and knows people who usually take triple that.

I would suggest that your friend brews at least 60g of caapi and 10g of MHRB. First drink 30g of the vine, and 10-20 minutes later(to let MAOI get a head start) drink 5g of the mimosa. Wait an hour and see where you're at.


At this point, there are a few different scenarios:

I know that your friend definitely will not be to the point where it is too much for him. Your friend could be to the point where he wants to be, which is great. Pop the rest of your brew in the fridge and your friend will have another dose for another day.

Your friend won't be having as healing of an experience he hoped, and will want to drink the remaining brew.

Your friend could have had a premature purge(MHRB is hard to keep down) and will want to drink the remaining brew.

[Phaedrus]

My friend was thinking of taking the vine solo first, and then adding dried MHRB extract on subsequent trips. Is it the vine or the admixture that causes the purge? Friend has yet to purge on this extract with Rue.

[Ataraxia]

The vine causes a purge, because that's what it's supposed to do, it's a cleansing and healing experience. The admixture causes a purge because it is really harsh on your stomach, and your body rejects it. If you're planning on a caapi only brew, you're going to want to use 50-100g. Just slowly drink until you're at the point you want to be. It can sometimes take well over an hour for the last sip you took to onset, so be careful.

[Phaedrus]

Valuable information. Thanks. I'll post the outcome.

[stinky_plant]

This is a very informative thread. SWIM read on the bio park webiste and on wikipedia that the ayahuasca provides the force, while the DMT admixtures provide the light. The biopark website seemed to stress the importance the force provided by the ayhuasca vine is to the experience. SWIM was really hoping for a full blown visual experience with 60g yellow caapi and 40g p. viridis but got only distant closed eyed visuals. It seems like it'd be best for SWIM to stick with the yellow and change the DMT admixture before changing the caapi. Although, SWIM would like to drink some black someday and maybe do a little voodoo ritual.

[Bajeda]

I believe white or yellow are better colours for starting ayahuasca users while black is best kept to more experienced trippers. I think 60 grams was listed as the starting dose in one of the guides here on the forums, though you'd have to check to make sure before attempting to produce and consume an ayahuasca mixture.

[Alfa]

This thread could use some pictures. If anyone can contribute this, that would be welcome.