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Amphetamine Amphetamine AKA speed

 
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  #1  
Old 23-03-2012, 19:19
world2lms world2lms is offline
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what drug is most powerful: ritalin or adderall

Ive searched and found opinions on each but there's people posting their preference. Is it either ritalin or adderall...I want to know what's the difference in strength. I read that adderaall is more powerful and that more people on the forums prefer it. Is that true? Is it because adderall gives people better highs than ritalin?
  #2  
Old 23-03-2012, 19:38
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Re: what drug is most powerful: ritalin or adderall

Methylphenidate has a low bioavailabiltiy - 11 to 40% thus only has a half-life of two to four hours.

Adderall is both racemic and dextoamphetamine salts. d-amphetamine is much stronger than Ritalin from personal experience, however having the racemic salts included seem to balance the strength of the drug out. I have taken Ritalin and is wears away so quick, it is gone within 2 hours or so. Thus they make Concerta which is a time release form of Ritalin. Adderall on the other hand will keep one up for days if one takes four 30 mg capsule such in my case. What a mistake that was. I felt good the first day, however that night and the next day were awful. Why I did that, I have no idea. I get impulsive at times.

Methylphenidate is very substandard and safe compared the dextroamphetamine, thus that is why children receive Ritalin instead of Adderall. Adderall is for ADHD and is for Adults. Ritalin can be given to children safely, without keeping them up all night. It wears away quickly during the day, and by the time the child gets home and eats, he/she has no problem getting a good nights sleep. Just from personal experience with both, Adderall is much more potent that Ritalin. I won't get into what I used to do with Ritalin, but I will say it has a decent rush, but has no legs. Do you understand what I mean?

salgoud

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Highly informative, I was wondering about this. Thank you for answering!

Last edited by salgoud; 24-03-2012 at 04:55.
  #3  
Old 23-03-2012, 20:12
KNiFe KNiFe is offline
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Re: what drug is most powerful: ritalin or adderall

I respond better to methylphenidate-based medications, when compared to amphetamine-based formulations. If we're going to use the d-amphetamine component of Adderall (mixed amphetamine salts) when comparing strength to methylphenidate, I think it only makes sense to mention the effects of dexmethylphenidate, the dextrorotatory enantiomer of Ritalin. It is marketed in the U.S. as Focalin and comes in instant release as well as extended release formulations.

Focalin is a whole different species. I do better on Focalin than I do on Adderall, Dexedrine and Vyvanse. All amphetamine-based medications. But I must mention that most of the people I know who are also prescribed stimulants at my age do better on amphetamine-based medications. I'm not typical, but that's not to say I'm the only person out there who reacts this wall. So essentially, I believe that dexmethylphenidate is a lot stronger than Adderall (amphetamine salts) as well as Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine).

Amphetamines knock me right out, I go to sleep within an hour or so of taking them. I nod off in lectures on them as if I'm on hydromorphone heh. I've tried various doses and nothing improves my concentration or alertness. If anything, they make it very dangerous for me to be on the road in the morning on the way to school in rush hour traffic. Whereas Focalin (dexmethylphenidate) has me focused, calm, alert.. I've been bad before and insufflated 10mg instant release Focalin, and stayed up for several days this way. Biomedical engineering does this to me twice a year or so.
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Old 23-03-2012, 22:17
salgoud salgoud is offline
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Re: what drug is most powerful: ritalin or adderall

Then Knife, you do truly have ADHD and of course the dextro isomer of methylphenidate will be stronger than the racemic.

However, in people without ADHD, dextroamphetamine is much stronger than Ritalin. When I did Ritalin, it did the same to me that dextroamphetamine did to you, after an hour or two, I was asleep. Strange the way certain stimulants work on people.

In normal people the bioavailability of Focalin is 11-52% and the half-life 2-4 hours. Dextroamphetamine has a bioavailability of 75% and a half-life from 10-28 hours (average 12 hours). However, I sure everyone is different, but for the majority the above is the norm. For you it is the opposite because you have perhaps a severe form of ADHD. I am just surprised that Adderall (you have been prescribed this drug, correct?) does not last longer that Focalin for you. Perhaps it is due to the fact that Adderall is not pure dextroamphetamine but also has racemic amphetamine in it also. I'm sure Focalin helps one concentrated better in the dextro form. However, is it an Extended Release form?

Vyvanse is a prodrug. By itself it is inactive, however when the body metabolizes lisdexamfetamine, it strips off the added L-lysine group and turns the drug into dextroamphetamine. Thus it is no different than Dexedrine, except the time it takes to turn into dextroamphetamine. It also remains the pro-drug, lisdexamphetamine for a little less than an hour, then turns into dextroamphetamine and has a half-life of 12-13 hours. Averaging about the same as Dexedrine. However, the strengths might be different also, I haven't had time to look those up, however I'm sure the dose of Focalin may be greater than 10-20mg. Also, one can get a physical tolerance to amphetamines when taken all the time, and the liver has a way of metabolizing drugs faster and faster, to get them out of the system. Switching to Focalin can fool the liver, because it is a somewhat different molecular structure. However, once Focalin is taken over a period of time, the same problem may and could happen. IMO.

salgoud

Last edited by salgoud; 24-03-2012 at 05:33.
  #5  
Old 23-03-2012, 23:32
Megan288 Megan288 is offline
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Re: what drug is most powerful: ritalin or adderall

adderall. I have a love/hate relationship with it. It prevents me from doing stupid things, but I feel like it also makes people wonder if I have any feelings sometimes. I give a few blank stairs, and no when I'm giving one and don't like it. It's not that big of a deal, I guess. I'm liked. But, there's a lot that comes a long with taking Adderall.

Megan288 added 3 Minutes and 4 Seconds later...

I took Ritalin too and it just wasn't the same. I took that after two years of adderall, though. I'm back on Adderall and all I can say is I love/hate it.

Last edited by Megan288; 23-03-2012 at 23:32. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #6  
Old 24-03-2012, 04:12
Impure157 Impure157 is offline
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Re: what drug is most powerful: ritalin or adderall

At prescribed and regular recreational doses it is by far adderall that is the more powerful psychoactive substance.

With that said in the past I've read from a few different sources that back in the heyday of amphetamine use and abuse in the US addicts loved methylphenidate.

They found that while the various pharmaceutical amphetamines they were injecting had some sort of effects ceiling where greater dosing did not cause any greater effects, just longer duration.

According to what I've read this was not the case with methylphenidate, the slang term for it (among prison inmates at least) was apparently "west coast" and heavy IV users preferred it since when they got to those massive doses it not only lacked an effects ceiling its effects reportedly at some point would get exponentially more intense.
  #7  
Old 24-03-2012, 05:10
salgoud salgoud is offline
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Re: what drug is most powerful: ritalin or adderall

Some people get phenmetrazine (Preludin) confused with methylphenidate. The old BI 62's. They called it BAM in D.C. They were abused to the point they were taken off the market at the same time as Quaaludes were.

Phenmetrazine was a high that lasted about half the time that amphetamine does, and had a cocaine/amphetamine type rush to it. It had a waxy center and people would abuse them all night long.

Methylphenidate, in my personal experience was not very strong. Once a friend of mine found a bottle of 500 and extracted them and let them dry in a pyrex dish. He was left with pure crystal methylphenidate. I tried some, quite a lot in fact, if I told you, you probably wouldn't believe me, but at the time we were doing 1/2g's and 3/4g shots. You get a mean tolerance to stimulants. Maybe it reverses effect at high doses, who knows. But back in the day, no one really abused methylphenidate in the U.S., however, phenmetrazine (Preludin) was abused to the point of extinction, like Numorphan 10 Endo footballs, and Quaaludes. You may be referring to Preludin. Methylphenidate definitely has a ceiling effect. I was so disappointed, we just tossed the crap. We had other stuff to attend to. Which had no ceiling effect. Believe me, I've done a lot of amphetamine and methamphetamine and my friends ceiling effect was how much he could put in a 1cc rig filled. The stuff actually started to crystallize in the rig. There was no ceiling effect. His eyes were shuttering back and forth at the speed of light and he couldn't talk or even walk. He was too high. So where you got this ceiling effect from, I would be interested to know. I see you are 23, I'm not trying to discredit you in anyway, but you were born in 1989. This was happening in the 70's, when I grew up. I think you might have gotten the two mixed up, perhaps.

I guess everyone is different, every time I've done Ritalin, I start yawning after an hour. It nice for the first 30 minutes, then there is a thirty minute comedown when all you think about is doing more. Much mellower that amphetamine. Amphetamine will have your heart trying to beat through your chest. It definitely is strong and raw, not like methamphetamine, which is much mellower, IMO, than amphetamine. Ritalin is for ADHD patients for sure, it is so mellow, I'm getting tired writing about it. That's why they give it to children. If it is so addicting, why do they over prescribe it to kids.

Good Night All,

Watch out for stimulants, they are notorious for messing with heart valves. I'd hate to have a heart valve replacement. That's why I stick to downers from my doctor. I'm so nervous and hyper, I can't live normally without them.

salgoud

Last edited by salgoud; 24-03-2012 at 05:37.
  #8  
Old 24-03-2012, 05:29
KNiFe KNiFe is offline
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Re: what drug is most powerful: ritalin or adderall

Quote:
Originally Posted by salgoud View Post
Then Knife, you do truly have ADHD and of course the dextro isomer of methylphenidate will be stronger than the racemic.

However, in people without ADHD, dextroamphetamine is much stronger than Ritalin. When I did Ritalin, it did the same to me that dextroamphetamine did to you, after an hour or two, I was asleep. Strange the way certain stimulants work on people.

In normal people the bioavailability of Focalin is 11-52% and the half-life 2-4 hours. Dextroamphetamine has a bioavailability of 75% and a half-life from 10-28 hours (average 12 hours). However, I sure everyone is different, but for the majority the above is the norm. For you it is the opposite because you have perhaps a severe form of ADHD. I am just surprised that Adderall (you have been prescribed this drug, correct) does not last longer that Focalin. Perhaps it is due to the fact that Adderall is not pure dextroamphetamine but also has racemic amphetamine in it also. I'm sure Focalin helps one concentrated better in the dextro form. However, is it an Extended Release form?

Vyvanse is a prodrug. By itself it is inactive, however when the body metabolizes lisdexamfetamine, it strips off the added L-lysine group and turns the drug into dextroamphetamine. Thus it is no different than Dexedrine, except the time it takes to turn into dextroamphetamine. It also remains the pro-drug, lisdexamphetamine for a little less than an hour, then turns into dextroamphetamine and has a half-life of 12-13 hours. Averaging about the same as Dexedrine. However, the strengths might be different also, I haven't had time to look those up, however I'm sure the dose of Focalin may be greater than 10-20mg. Also, one can get a physical tolerance to amphetamines when taken all the time, and the liver has a way of metabolizing drugs faster and faster, to get them out of the system. Switching to Focalin can fool the liver, because it is a somewhat different molecular structure. However, once Focalin is taken over a period of time, the same problem may and could happen. IMO.

salgoud
Ha my ADHD is pretty bad, I sometimes feel like a 5 year old child.. so restless, need to run around the block to "get my energy out" (my mum's made me do that actually, throughout my entire childhood), terrible with deadlines and appointments, you get the point. However, when medicated, I've managed to maintain a 3.9 GPA at university in upper-level courses. I'm 20 by the way, in my last 3 semesters of a 5-year biomedical engineering B.S. program.

I'm actually prescribed (all of the medications I've mentioned here were prescribed to me legally) 10 mg of instant release Focalin (dexmethylphenidate) 3 times a day. I prefer this over the extended release formulation because the XR was very unreliable. On Focalin XR 30mg (I believe this is the highest dose), some mornings I'd get a huge burst of 15mg of the medication, crash until after lunch when the second 15mg would "kick in". It would only last about an hour or two until I felt nothing at all. I worked at a law firm while I was on this medication.

In my first post, I didn't mention that Focalin lasts longer than Adderall or Dexedrine. The problem with the aforementioned amphetamine-based medications is that they didn't work well with me. They didn't increase motivation, they didn't produce euphoria, they didn't improve my concentration. Instead, Adderall induced a craving of Hershey's Sundae Pie (screw that, I don't even remember eating one) and intense need for sleep. My fiancÚ used to call these Adderall naps.

A similar thing happened when I was prescribed Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine) 10 mg three times a day. Instant release. I would take the medication, get ready for school, and lay right back in bed (and fall asleep for a few hours, missing many lectures) if I didn't get out the door and stick myself in my car. Initially, the act of driving improved my alertness, but the dextroamphetamine got the best of me. Vyvanse was actually the most promising of the amphetamines. I know it is essentially dextroamphetamine, but it worked quite well after the 3 hour nap I had to take upon administration of 50mg. I felt like a zombie.. I'd knock out, wake up and have incredible concentration.

I've tried various medications in the past 4 years or so, but I've been on the same dose and frequency of Focalin (dexmethylphenidate) for the past 3 years, with 1 month "breaks" where I tried Vyvanse, Adderall, and Dexedrine due to insurance issues. I haven't noticed a decrease in efficacy whatsoever.

My fiancÚ, who does not have ADHD, responded to Focalin and Adderall in a similar fashion interestingly. Focalin has him concentrated and productive (at 2.5mg - 5 mg, he can't tolerate 10 mg). Adderall has him yawning, scatterbrained, easily distracted, hypersexual (I didn't mind this) if I woke him up by playing along, and overall a very difficult study buddy during finals. Needless to say, we got very little done.

If I want to be random and annoying, and feel driven to tend to various cravings for food, I'll go for the Adderall. If I want to catch up on sleep, I'll take Dexedrine. If I HAD to choose another medication to go on, I'd probably go for the Vyvanse. I could just wake up at 5 am, take the medicine, go to sleep for a few hours and wake up focused.

When one asks which is stronger, Ritalin (methylphenidate) or Adderall, I think it really depends on what you want it to do, what pre-existing conditions you might have.. some people respond in drastically different ways to these two medications. Regardless of bioavailability and half-life. The best way I could answer this question is by stating that they're both strong stimulants.
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Old 24-03-2012, 06:05
Impure157 Impure157 is offline
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Re: what drug is most powerful: ritalin or adderall

Quote:
Originally Posted by salgoud View Post
Methylphenidate, in my personal experience was not very strong. Once a friend of mine found a bottle of 500 and extracted them and let them dry in a pyrex dish. He was left with pure crystal methylphenidate. I tried some, quite a lot in fact, if I told you, you probably wouldn't believe me, but at the time we were doing 1/2g's and 3/4g shots. You get a mean tolerance to stimulants. Maybe it reverses effect at high doses, who knows. But back in the day, no one really abused methylphenidate in the U.S., however, phenmetrazine (Preludin) was abused to the point of extinction, like Numorphan 10 Endo footballs, and Quaaludes. You may be referring to Preludin. Methylphenidate definitely has a ceiling effect. I was so disappointed, we just tossed the crap. We had other stuff to attend to. Which had no ceiling effect. Believe me, I've done a lot of amphetamine and methamphetamine and my friends ceiling effect was how much he could put in a 1cc rig filled. The stuff actually started to crystallize in the rig. There was no ceiling effect. His eyes were shuttering back and forth at the speed of light and he couldn't talk or even walk. He was too high. So where you got this ceiling effect from, I would be interested to know. I see you are 23, I'm not trying to discredit you in anyway, but you were born in 1989. This was happening in the 70's, when I grew up. I think you might have gotten the two mixed up, perhaps.
I wasn't saying it was something I'd experienced or even heard, what I said in my last post was all based off one book and a couple articles I've read.

They were written by different people and cited different sources but all had the same basic information so I figured it was reliable enough. What they claimed was that back in the 60's and into the 70's, methylphenidate was the DOC for many long-term amphetamine addicts (which in the book I mentioned the author made it a point to be clear he was were referring to ritalin) this was supposedly mainly a trend in prisons on the west coast of the US. The book actually had at least one document from the time (I believe it was a letter from a prison doctor to another physician doing research of some type) that clearly states the inmates use the term "west coast" when referring to methylphenidate which many of the inmates had suddenly began smuggling in and using intravenously.

It is definitely possible there was a mix up with which drug it actually was at some point there, but I was just stating the information I've read.
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Old 24-03-2012, 14:46
salgoud salgoud is offline
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Re: what drug is most powerful: ritalin or adderall

Quote:
Originally Posted by KNiFe View Post
In my first post, I didn't mention that Focalin lasts longer than Adderall or Dexedrine. The problem with the aforementioned amphetamine-based medications is that they didn't work well with me. They didn't increase motivation, they didn't produce euphoria, they didn't improve my concentration. Instead, Adderall induced a craving of Hershey's Sundae Pie (screw that, I don't even remember eating one) and intense need for sleep. My fiancÚ used to call these Adderall naps.
Yes, at least we can discuss the subject like adults, and I apologize if I read your post wrong. If I had ADHD I would probably choose Focalin myself. Since you are in University pursuing an honorable degree, and have maintained a 3.9 GPA, it obviously is the best ADHD medication for you. Amphetamine makes one too stimulated, however, I am dismayed that 6,000,000 children are given Ritalin every year. Personally, I got my degree in Chemistry BS, with a minor in Mathematics. I graduated in 1986 with a 3.85 GPA without any stimulants. However, for me, I believe my GPA might have been lower if I took stimulants other than coffee, since I have no problem concentrating on subjects that are very interesting to me.

Quote:
By Impure157. They were written by different people and cited different sources but all had the same basic information so I figured it was reliable enough. What they claimed was that back in the 60's and into the 70's, methylphenidate was the DOC for many long-term amphetamine addicts (which in the book I mentioned the author made it a point to be clear he was were referring to ritalin) this was supposedly mainly a trend in prisons on the west coast of the US. The book actually had at least one document from the time (I believe it was a letter from a prison doctor to another physician doing research of some type) that clearly states the inmates use the term "west coast" when referring to methylphenidate which many of the inmates had suddenly began smuggling in and using intravenously.
Yes, perhaps it was easy to get Ritalin from the prison doctors back then, and was a trend in the prisons.

However, outside of prison Phenmetrazine was one of the most widely abused stimulants other than amphetamine and methamphetamine back in the 70's, thus in the 80's they took it off the market. Like I said to KNiFe, 6,000,000 children take Ritalin every year for ADD. This is every one out of eight children. I think it is widely over prescribed, and doctors should try other methods first, before just giving a child a Schedule II Controlled Substance thinking that the stimulant will take care of the attention span of the child. I have no doubt Ritalin has it's place in medicine and that prisoner's abused it in the 60's and 70's. Let's hope Ritalin does not have any long term detrimental effects for our children. And you are right about it was Ritalin abused in the "West Coast" prison population. They would never prescribe Phenmetrazine (Preludin) to prisoners since it was prescribe for weight loss, and not Attention Deficit Disorder. They obviously were using the prisoners as Guinea Pigs.

salgoud

Last edited by salgoud; 24-03-2012 at 14:55.

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