Painkillers SWIM got from wisdom teeth removal

[-k4ge]

Recently, er, Today rather, SWIM got his wisdoms pulled, and such. After taking the set of painkilers the docter gave SWIM he noticed feeling a bit happier, and off centered from normal. He then looked at the bottle and realised each pill contained 30mg of Codeine. Now, SWIM liked this small buzz from the painkillers and wants to experiment a little more.
Each pill contains:
300mg Acetaminophen
15mg Caffeine
30mg Codeine

SWIM read here that

Originally Posted by MrJim

Codeine - For the non-opiate tolerated a 75-125mg dose should be good to start safely with this drug.

Now SWIM know that doses of up to 400mg of caffeine can be taken, but SWIM was unable to find much information on the Acetaminophen. SWIM thinks he read someplace that is it safe to take up to about 1000mg of Acetaminophen safely.

SWIM is just asking basically, would it be safe for SWIM to take say, a maximum of three of these to enjoy the effects of the Codeine?

[Pinkavvy]

codine is ok, but hydrocodone and oxycodone is better.

best advice? swiy should call your tentist first thing in the morning and say that the painpills he gave you are making you really really itchy and giving you hives. he'll tell you to throw them away and to pick up a prescription of hydrocodone (vicodin) or oxycodone (percocet) ... then swiy will have both

[-k4ge]

But would it be safe for SWIM to ingest 2 or 3 for recreational purposes?

[Pinkavvy]

Yes, assuming swiy don't have any serious allergies to codeiene or acetaminophin, 2 or 3 would be fine.

If swiy wants to go any stronger than that, definately look into doing a CWE (cold water extraction.)

[-k4ge]

Originally Posted by Pinkavvy

If swiy wants to go any stronger than that, definately look into doing a CWE (cold water extraction.)

Could you describe a CWE to SWIM.

And Richard Smoker, SWIM thanks you for the warning, and will do his best to be careful

[Richard_smoker]

Yeah, you can take 1000mg of acetominophen at one time. I agree with Pink, if you absolutely MUST take opiates for the pain.

But I wouldn't take more... and if you were one of the REALLY INTELLIGENT people who listen and heed advice from the most seasoned and battle-hardened amongst us, then you WILL NOT START TAKING THAT SHIT!!


Seriously, most people have absolutely no idea what they're getting into when they say, like you did, "I think I kinda like the way this makes me feel."

I would have to say that EVERYONE I know who has said that, has become addicted to opiates, and they are NOT pretty! I know, it doesn't seem that bad at first, but they will grab you by the ass and NEVER let go!

[ASStounding]

Originally Posted by Richard_smoker

Yeah, you can take 1000mg of acetominophen at one time. I agree with Pink, if you absolutely MUST take opiates for the pain.

But I wouldn't take more... and if you were one of the REALLY INTELLIGENT people who listen and heed advice from the most seasoned and battle-hardened amongst us, then you WILL NOT START TAKING THAT SHIT!!


Seriously, most people have absolutely no idea what they're getting into when they say, like you did, "I think I kinda like the way this makes me feel."

I would have to say that EVERYONE I know who has said that, has become addicted to opiates, and they are NOT pretty! I know, it doesn't seem that bad at first, but they will grab you by the ass and NEVER let go!

Excellent advice! This is my girls name I'm posting under, but I'm 26 yrs old, and 6 of those years I spent as a hardcore prescription opiate addict and it all started identical to this scenario, except it was vicodin I was given when they took my wisdom teeth out, and I didn't have a clue that what I was taking was an opiate, let alone addictive. I didn't find out until a year after I'd been taking hydro's as they were easy to obtain. My naive philosophy was that if a doctor gave it to you then it must be perfectly safe. I was 17 at the time and I didn't sober up until I was 22, which was only after going to hell and back. When I got sober I became a bodybuilder, and a health guru, and with the exception of using steroids often I didn't touch drugs for 3yrs solid, not even a cup of coffee(caffeine). Ironically enough, after being sober all that time, one day I was squatting 405lbs and because of the juice I injured myself in a way that resulted in my being dependent on opiates all over again. The trouble is, I really need them now for the pain but because I abused them for all those years just to get high, it takes an enormous amount of them to work now and even then I only get moderate relief. My point is only to be careful and use recreationally and in moderation, because like he said, opiates have a way of sneaking up on you even when you think you've got it under control. Leave your ego at the door when you enter into the house of opiates. Sorry for the long post, this thread sounded identical to the beginning of a journey that almost completely destroyed my life, and came close many times to killing me because my thinking was that I always knew best and I ignored good advice. Opiates are a blast in moderation as long as you are educated in there use and you know when to say when. This is not an anti-drug speech only a be cautious speech, believe me, I'm pro-drug.

[Pinkavvy]

-k4ge, look near the top of the screen. there's a button there that says SEARCH. Use it. The CWE method has been described in full details HUNDREDS of times on this forum; it really doesn't need to be typed out again.

And Dick is right, opiates are the most physically addictive drug that exists... well, between opiates and alcohol. Be careful.

Now, swip is late to snort some oxy ... damn dependance.

[GDxCAT]

Doing a cold water extraction is pointless unless you are using a large number of pills (20+).
otherwise just swallow them.
i find my favorite dose of codiene to be 250-300mg.

And as pink said, hydrocodone and oxy over codiene anyday.

[Pinkavvy]

Beltane, does swibeltane have a death wish? Swip gets bottles of 500 count norco's, and highly recomends them over just about any other pain pill since the acetomophin count is so low. But swibeltane is braging about being stupid here, and encouraging bad advice. 100 norco's over 6 days is on average well over 5g of acetominophin per day, which is STUPID and DANGEROUS.

Nobody attempt to do what swibeltane does; s/he is lucky they haven't died yet.

If anybody is going to do that many of any pills, including norco's, an extraction needs to be done. Nocrco's are great because you can safely eat 2-6 of them a day without the need of an extraction, but anything over that you need to do extraction.

// "You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice." // damn that limitation.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good advice

[Beltane]

Did my post, to which you're referring, get deleted?

First, I didn't mean to be "bragging."

Second, I've checked with several medical sources and am told that the maximum dosage of acetomenophin to be prescribed it 4g/day. So if 4g/day is safe, my persona opinion is that 5g is not nearly so dangerous as you assert. Though you are correct, there's absolutely no reason to exceed 4g when one could do a cold water extraction (CWE) and drop that amount to near zero.

Third, and finally, I agree with you that too much acetomenophin (sp?) is bad, I personally am just not convinced that it's AS bad as you say. I met a guy at an anon meeting once who was a Physician's Assistant (basically almost a full-fledged doctor.) This guy was, and had been for months and possibly years, taking 40-60 ES Vicodin PER DAY! Now I know it's bad, I agree with you, but at these dosages he was taking in 40 to 60 GRAMS of acetomenophin PER DAY. Now this guy was basically a doctor and could write scripts for whatever he wanted. I know it's bad, but if we were talking "exceed 4 grams acetomenophen by as little as 20% for as little as 7 days and you WILL cause irreperable damage to your liver that will SIGNIFICANTLY shorten your life expectancy- type bad," I gotta believe this guy would not have been doing it. And I believe he was.

In short, I believe too much acetomenophen is bad and w/ CWE as easy as it is there's no reason this should be an issue, I guess I just don't think it's as bad as you're asserting.

- Beltane

Originally Posted by Pinkavvy

Beltane, does swibeltane have a death wish? Swip gets bottles of 500 count norco's, and highly recomends them over just about any other pain pill since the acetomophin count is so low. But swibeltane is braging about being stupid here, and encouraging bad advice. 100 norco's over 6 days is on average well over 5g of acetominophin per day, which is STUPID and DANGEROUS.

Nobody attempt to do what swibeltane does; s/he is lucky they haven't died yet.

If anybody is going to do that many of any pills, including norco's, an extraction needs to be done. Nocrco's are great because you can safely eat 2-6 of them a day without the need of an extraction, but anything over that you need to do extraction.

// "You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice." // damn that limitation.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good reply and good standing up for yourself; but 4g a day consistantly will cause your liver to have a very short shelf...
	Taking more than 4g APAP is DEFINETTLY as bad as P said

[Abrad]

Originally Posted by Beltane

Second, I've checked with several medical sources and am told that the maximum dosage of acetomenophin to be prescribed it 4g/day. So if 4g/day is safe, my persona opinion is that 5g is not nearly so dangerous as you assert. Though you are correct, there's absolutely no reason to exceed 4g when one could do a cold water extraction (CWE) and drop that amount to near zero.

Your logic is dangerously flawed, taking more than 4g of APAP per day is extremely dangerous and will cause liver damage.

Originally Posted by Beltane

Third, and finally, I agree with you that too much acetomenophin (sp?) is bad, I personally am just not convinced that it's AS bad as you say. I met a guy at an anon meeting once who was a Physician's Assistant (basically almost a full-fledged doctor.) This guy was, and had been for months and possibly years, taking 40-60 ES Vicodin PER DAY! Now I know it's bad, I agree with you, but at these dosages he was taking in 40 to 60 GRAMS of acetomenophin PER DAY. Now this guy was basically a doctor and could write scripts for whatever he wanted.

TBH SWIM is having a very hard time believing this, if this person was taking that much APAP per/day he would be dead. If this story is true all I can say is I'm glad he's not SWIMs doctor. If it is not, it is stupidly irresponsible to post such dangerous misinformation.

[bewilderment]

Codeine may not be the best painkiller out there, but it can still be yummy. Swim was addicted to benzo's and painkillers for about 3-4 years and during those years Tylenol 3's w/codeine were the most available, they were also the first painkiller swim ever tried. Those have 300mg of acetaminophen in them and swim could usually take up to four without getting sick. I don't think use over the period of time while you're recovering from surgery is going to cause any damage, but let it be noted that swim discontinued use mainly because she was beginning to see a bit of blood in her urine whenever she would take the tylenol 3's. I'll agree that addiction is a risk, but after swim stopped taking the pharmaceuticals five years ago she found that she didn't miss them much (after a period of time after psychological dependence subsides). She has a ready supply of benzo's but doesn't feel the need to abuse them, and doesn't even like to take them anymore because they just make her sleepy now. She still loves opiates and will take them when they're offered, but she doesn't seek them out and has no desire to use them regularly. Swim was given hydrocodone when she had her wisdom teeth taken out some years ago and it definately made the recovery more pleasurable than it would have been otherwise.

[Beltane]

I relate the story as I heard it. Considering the setting and my personal feel for the man and his story, I have no reason to believe we was lying or eggagerating.

Lighten up. I said it was a story that I was told, I didn't state it as gospel or even vouch personally for its authenticity. I made sure to point out at any turn that too much APAP is bad and that w/ the simplicity of CWE there's no reason it should ever be an issue. I take offense to what I consider to be your passive/aggressive near accusation of being stupidly irresponsible and/or posting any misinformation, dangerous or otherwise.

At the advice of some senior members around here I've been putting more thought and effort into my posts in order to be more responsible and lower the risk of spreading misinformation. I stand by my post and would graciously accept an apology.

- Beltane

Reputation Comments on this post:

Dangerous and iressponsible post

[Abrad]

I meant no offence. However I still do not believe anybody can take that much APAP on a daily basis and still be alive.

[bewilderment]

10g of acetaminophen is supposedly enough to cause liver failure so I think it's highly improbable that the guy was ingesting that much and if so then some kind of medical professional should do some sort of study. Maybe he was doing a CWE or something. Although, just doing a quick search on usenet turned up people taking 20-30 vicodin a day which is still too much apap. I wonder why these people don't begin getting incredibly nauseous when they get up to toxic levels of acetaminophen. I've had too much tylenol on occasion and the pain is pretty intense so I don't see how people could stand it. It also seems as if the damage already done to the liver should put them at increased risk of liver failure. I wonder what the average dose/day is for hardcore addicts...I don't believe I've come across any sort of narcotic prescription painkiller which doesn't have tylenol in the formula, do any exist?

[Pinkavvy]

Though there is the chance of a 1 in a million exception bewildermnet is right 10g will cause liver failer 99.99999% of the time in 99.99999999% of people. I think you underestimate the deadlyness of acetominiphin. (it kills more people than any other drug!)

Even in smaller doses of 4g/day ... after a few days you will have liver damage that is irriversable ... continue at this rate and it will fail and you will die.

The point is be careful, don't take the rist, and take 10 fucking minutes to do a CWE.

[Nagognog2]

Posting stories that contain dangerous information, such as SWIM taking a potentially lethal amount of x,y,z, and not making VERY clear that doing such is stupid/dangerous/ill-advised - will result in said post being deleted. And, at very least, the poster can expect to see their reputation take a tumble. At LEAST.

There is no room here to argue this, so don't bother trying.

[Beltane]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Posting stories that contain dangerous information, such as SWIM taking a potentially lethal amount of x,y,z, and not making VERY clear that doing such is stupid/dangerous/ill-advised - will result in said post being deleted. And, at very least, the poster can expect to see their reputation take a tumble. At LEAST.

There is no room here to argue this, so don't bother trying.

Look, I'm doing my best. This feels stifling. I don't KNOW that taking x amount of APAP is exactly n bad on a scale of 1 to 10. I have your word that it is. On the other hand I have the word of a PA who told me who took an average of 40 to 60 ES Vicodin per day. Now personally I don't (didn't) know that taking that much APAP is really, really, really (i.e. deadly) bad, but you admonish me for not pointing this out. I wasn't familiar with the severity of taking too much APAP and yet you say you'll delete my posts. You say that posting information that, to the best of my knowledge, was valid information to be considered at the very least, is not acceptable unless I make it very clear that this information is false. But I didn't know that yet, did I? Honestly, I've heard enuf to be mindful of my APAP intake to be sure, but in my mind I've still got the word of a trained PA against yours and most on this board, all of whom I know nothing of their depth of medical knowledge or training.

I posted what you considered to be dangerous info, totally unknowingly, and you stepped in and pointed out what needed to be pointed out. That seems to be the way it's supposed to work, rather than having people walking on eggshells afraid to express themselves for fear of accidentally saying something to bring down the wrath of the admins.

I really am doing my best.

- Beltane

[kemistudent]

LOL, tellem your stomach is very sensitive to codeine and that whenever you need pain medication you are prescribed this medication that sounds like.. (pause for a second) per.. per.. perc.. perco.. perco something. When they say, "percocet?" you pounce on em like a tiger with "Yeeeeaaaa! Thats the stuff!"

jumpinjeehoseyphats! you just scored a few nights of euphoria that whups codeines ass.

[Nagognog2]

This PA of yours should be reported. No shit!

[Beltane]

Interesting fellow he was. First off, SWIM met the guy in an 'anonymous' setting, so he was already on some sort of road to recovery. Before that tho, and while he was eating these handfuls of vicodin, he worked at one job as an ER PA. He was doing triage and also surgery during this period. Again, this came first hand from him and in a setting and conveyed in such a way as to leave me no reason to suspect him of exaggeration.

Another of his jobs was being the main medical professional at one of those walk-in clinic places. Officially there was always an M.D. somewhere, overseeing things somehow. According to this guy tho he ran the place and did any and all procedures that were done there up to and including minor surgery.

It's funny that the guy eventually got busted writing all these scripts for his family members and then picking them up for the family members at all these different pharmacies. Can you imagine being addicted to something like vicodin and actually having a medical license to dispense what you're addicted to? Aunt Gladys needs 120 ES vicodin... OK, that'll last me for 2 or 3 days... Is Uncle Richard ready for his refill? I better check

- Beltane

[Fantasian]

Once you've heard advice or information from any source, whether it's this forum, the internet or a person in real life. You should reenforce it with background research, the reason why many people do not make the mistakes (i say mistake because i genuinely dont believe that you wanted to hurt someone with this information) is because they ensure the information they post is valid.

I hope this acts as a learning curve and helps you not make a similar mistake in the future.

My personal oppinion of the acetaminophen issue is that death would have ensued.

Im not sure about the US, but in the uk there are systems in place to prevent the very thing you mention about doctors prescribing themselves or their family drugs that might be considered recreational. The only way to get round this would be to use friends but even then doctors regularly get investigated when prescribing potential recreational drugs in particular narcotics.

[kingkenny]

Hi, this is my first post here so if its too far off topic feel free to delete, but after reading all this i was wondering if generic tramadol contains acetaminophen, and if so how much?

[bewilderment]

No, it doesn't contain any acetaminophen. Which makes me wonder if they put APAP into all of the true opiates to curb abuse...makes sense. Tramadol is kind of nice though...but nowhere close to hydrocodone.