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Pharmacology How drugs affect the workings of the human body.

 
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  #1  
Old 28-02-2012, 18:11
SpatialReason SpatialReason is offline
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Pupil Dilation Reduction Techniques for Psychedelic/Stimulant Drugs.

Interestingly enough, I performed a small experiment out of necessity and desire for effective change. In the effects of drugs, most people know that the easiest identifier for someone currently under the influence of most major psychedelics, disassociatives, and some empathogenic stimulants would be the typical effect of pupil dilation (Mydriasis).

Wikipedia on Mydriasis:
Quote:
Most hallucinogens such as LSD, psilocybin, and mescaline, in addition to some other phenethylamines and tryptamines, all produce mydriasis by agonizing the serotonergic 5-HT2A receptors in the brain. Dissociatives such as ketamine, DXM, and PCP do so as well via antagonism of the NMDA glutamate receptors. There have also been reports that the atypical psychedelic herb Salvia divinorum and its active constituent salvinorin A causes mydriasis. It works via agonism of the κ-Opioid receptors in the brain. How the neurological changes induced by these drugs ultimately causes pupil dilation is unknown.
Drugs that increase overall serotonin levels in general are capable of causing mydriasis in the same way as the 5-HT2A-mediated psychedelics. This is because serotonin itself is naturally responsible for normal 5-HT2A stimulation. Hence, in sufficient quantities serotonin is mydriatic and can even be mildly psychedelic, though the potentially fatal serotonin syndrome usually ensues before the psychedelia becomes overly-pronounced. Examples of such drugs include MDMA (as well as other MDxx compounds), fenfluramine, chlorphentermine, stimulants (including cocaine and amphetamines), and some antidepressants (such as SSRIs, SNRIs, and MAOIs). Natural serotonin-boosting supplements such as L-Tryptophan and 5-HTP are also capable of this, but usually only in excessive doses.
Now that people are aware of what causes it, we will now move onto the next issue. In my mind, the bulging pupils are pretty, but in the eyes of others, it looks like you are on something and scary. The last thing you want is to feel sober as a rock yet be hassled over the condition of your eyes.

In my recent chemical research regarding pharmacology, I have learned something very useful. Although difficult in many comedown situations before the inevitable crash, a small nap in excess of an hour or more has worked to reduce my pupils back to normal conditions. The only downside of forcing a nap is that it is highly uncomfortable and will create bloodshot eyes upon waking up; however, the bloodshot look immediately goes away given 20 minutes or eye drops.

It seems that by doing this a person is giving the eye a chance to relax the muscle fibers and the iris dilator. Given enough time, this will basically return the eye back to the normal state prior to overstimulation due to brain activity induced by the drug's effects.

I would like others to attempt to verify this hypothesis of mine. Basically, after the effective duration of the psychoactive/stimulant effects disappear, take a look in the mirror and remark the current condition of your eye. With the eye condition remarked and stored in memory, go to a comfy place of rest and take a nap for at least an hour or two (no longer than this due to it being deemed as sleep). After taking the somewhat induced rest, check the eye immediately after waking up and functioning in normal lighting conditions. After that, check back on the eye. If there is any measurable improvement, this would be great in being able to somewhat forcefully mitigate the noticeable effects of pupil dilation. This effect is beautiful looking, but it is also sinister. Although one is stone-cold sober at work, if your coworkers notice your eyes, the excuses or indifference will eventually come back to bite you.

I just hope that I can get others to do the following:
State the drug, effective duration, comedown time, time of nap, duration of nap, and the qualitative analysis of pupil condition.

It'd be nice to have a good way to quell the effects of pupil dilation and have some control over this. I thought it was an uncontrollable aspect where one must "sleep it off" fully or "let it go away eventually." This may not be the case. There may indeed be a time threshold where the human eye can relax itself back to a normal state and remain stable.

My research journal had the following entry with regards to my test subject:
Drug: 6-APB @ various doses and methods (unknown) for 6 hours of effect.
End of effects: 4:00AM
Comedown start: 5:00AM
Nap taken: 6:00AM
Woke up: 7:45AM
Remarks: Extremely noticeable, large dilated pupils were prevalent. After the nap, the pupils were noticeably reduced with a very bloodshot result due to the forced-waking aspect. However, after 10 minutes, the eyes were at baseline.

This isn't harm reduction or anything really except "preventative measures from others annoying you; especially the cops that may or may not pull you over and think something is wrong." So it is beneficial in many ways. If you are forced to bring yourself back to reality and look normal after a long night, this is definitely the way to work out one of the key problems in this. Typically when one foregoes sleep due to it being outside of their reach or they feel fine and dandy, the pupil dilation effects still linger heavily. I was wanting to see if there is a perfect little amount of shut-eye that can actually acquiesce the condition in minimal time.

Last edited by SpatialReason; 28-02-2012 at 18:21.
  #2  
Old 28-02-2012, 19:07
davestate Gold member davestate is offline
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Re: Pupil Dilation Reduction Techniques for Psychedelic/Stimulant Drugs.

Sleep can cause myosis as during sleep, sympathetic tone is depressed and the pupils therefore constrict. The full mechanism is not fully understood, and info is seeminly lacking: See the abstract from this article

TONUS OF THE CILIARY MUSCLE DURING SLEEP

Some causes of miosis (which mentions sleep as a cause)

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~dons/part_1/chapter_4.html

However, whether this effect persists for any reasonable length of time after awaking, I cannot say. Also if the dilation was caused by a drug, in your case 6APB and sleep was possible, then the apparent reduction in pupil size after 1 hours sleep could merely be attributable to the effects of the drug wearing off.

Since this thread is also about other pupil dilation reduction ideas, I will add that acetylcholine can be used to induce miosis: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00367-0045.pdf
However this is a rather drastic solution, and the study above only mentions the use of acetylcholine injected into the anterior chamber of the eye. Obviously this is not practical or sofe for the layman. If anyone has experience with acetylcholine, used either orally or as an eye drop, causing this effect, then please update us
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpatialReason View Post
Typically when one foregoes sleep due to it being outside of their reach or they feel fine and dandy, the pupil dilation effects still linger heavily. I was wanting to see if there is a perfect little amount of shut-eye that can actually acquiesce the condition in minimal time.
The articles I have read all seem to state that deep sleep induces miosis.
  #3  
Old 28-02-2012, 19:36
chibi curmudgeon Gold member chibi curmudgeon is offline
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Re: Pupil Dilation Reduction Techniques for Psychedelic/Stimulant Drugs.

Acetylcholine? It'll be easier to just use pilocarpine or another cholinergic agonist, as an EYEDROP, not systemically and for fuck's sake don't try injecting anything into your eye. If you can't find the commercially available eyedrops, making them isn't too difficult, just remember anything you make with saline has to be used immediately and the rest thrown out, unless you also get your hands on some good preservatives.

And don't try screwing with your pupils if you have glaucoma, you could end up blind from angle closure.

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very helpful, thank you.
  #4  
Old 28-02-2012, 21:14
radiometer radiometer is offline
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Re: Pupil Dilation Reduction Techniques for Psychedelic/Stimulant Drugs.

I have not at all found this to be the case for myself with regard to MDMA. Pupil dilation often remains throughout the next day after a good night's sleep.
  #5  
Old 01-03-2012, 15:55
SpatialReason SpatialReason is offline
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Re: Pupil Dilation Reduction Techniques for Psychedelic/Stimulant Drugs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiometer View Post
I have not at all found this to be the case for myself with regard to MDMA. Pupil dilation often remains throughout the next day after a good night's sleep.
Yeah, I have been on the long end of the yardstick on that subject. This really varies on dose, redosing, and how much dosed overall. Also food, drink, and etc. make a big difference in oral administration since certain foods can slow the stomach processes down and metabolic processes as well. If one drinks before hand, the filter functions are taxed.

Mostly this depends on individual factors. I realize that in my hypothesis. I hope to get some idea of the validity of my assumptions. They are all guesses and such, but as anyone that works in science knows, this is how progress and cause/effect relationships get established. Someone makes an assumption that can be propagated into hypothetical relationships.

And by the way, this thread is open to medicinal suggestions along with other "methods" that could be used in alleviation of this so called "problem."

And good job on the discussion thus far. I hope it takes off somewhat. I also hope a few of the professionals (usually the mods) drop by to either promote or nay-say. I am not a medical professional or a psychoactive specialist. I just know basic things. Yet once again: even people with little experience or full understanding of things tend to make interesting discoveries.

Thoughts, suggestion, comments, and constructive opinions are definitely promoted here. Especially the quoted comment's experience-type post will give further material to discuss upon.

I will say that the comedown may have been the key to my success, but who knows. I can assure you of this: there is no way in hell someone is going to test this theory right on the drop off of active effects. I will send you a cookie if you somehow prove to me that you napped longer than an hour at the tail end of MDMA's active effects. The only way that has ever happened was through cocktails of other things that probably should never be mixed on top of such a powerful stimulant. o.o

Still though. I like discussion and hopefully a solution that is better than mine that can be reproduced with reasonable success. I am sure there are pharmaceutical solutions to this problem in terms of inducing miosis.

The reason why this is important: law enforcement officials are trained to hunt tell-tale signs of intoxication. They aren't being buttholes when they shine the light directly into your eyes at night; this is a training piece they implement all the time to observe pupil response with intense light. If the eyes are staying big, it is likely to be the case that someone is on something.

Hence why everyone screams "don't drive while on drugs." Not only because of the safety of others, but the security of yourself in the end. If you are coming down, feeling sober, and okay to drive... that doesn't mean you look like you are fully back to baseline. That little keyhole fact gives probable cause in many circumstances.

Always something to consider...
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:04
SoberSally SoberSally is offline
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Re: Pupil Dilation Reduction Techniques for Psychedelic/Stimulant Drugs.

I have found that eating and staying hydrated helps a little bit. I have done some reading and research on this subject in the past and found that by taking a hefty amount of B Vitamins one can avoid dilated pupils AND many of the other side effects caused by heavy stimulant use. Basically the B vitamins help expand the veins and supports blood flow. In addition to that, loading up on B vitamins helps keep your skin from breaking out during a binge and keeps your hair from falling out, which focalin, Ritalin, and concerta are known to cause.
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Old 12-04-2012, 13:36
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Re: Pupil Dilation Reduction Techniques for Psychedelic/Stimulant Drugs.

I have always felt that even just closing my eyes and attempting to sleep for at least an hour if I have been up all night helps to shrink them just slightly along with easing other physical effects on my body...even 'tweaker sleep' with both ears open I found was better than forcing it.

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