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  #1  
Old 25-02-2012, 12:52
Enzo_Guy Enzo_Guy is offline
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Adderall IR and 5 Hour Energy

SWIM decided he would do a write-up on the effects of Adderall with 5 Hour Energy, both through personal experience and research.

Effects
Adderall:
SWIM uses Barr generic Adderall IR on a non-recreational basis for his ADHD. He has done recreational doses of insufflated XR before but now he just prefers to take it as needed (the benefits can be discussed in another thread) using 10-20mg in the morning and 10-15mg 2 or 3 times more during the day as needed. Route of administration is always sublingual (heavy oral tobacco use means tough gums). ROA can be discussed in a different thread, the only importance here is the amount entering SWIM's bloodstream is higher than it appears versus oral and sublingual ROA mostly, if not completely, bypasses the issue of stomach pH inhibiting amphetamine absorption. IF TAKING ADDERALL ORALLY, EFFECTS OF COMBINATION CAN VARY.

5 Hour Energy:
SWIM prefers the Extra Strength (abbreviated to 5HEES) variety just in general, whether taking Adderall or not. Of note is his particular caffeine tolerance before starting Adderall. 2 5HEES shots with 8 cups of coffee (not counting sodas) has been done in a single day more than once, not combined with Adderall, with no ill effect or increased heartbeat. While caffeine will wake him up and help him focus he has never noticed caffeine by itself making him feel any more jittery or on edge than his ADHD normally did. If taken simultaneously the rush will be strong but it will likely be more of an uncomfortable restlessness with side effects of over stimulation rather than an actual concentration boost or increased speed buzz. SWIM will typically drink a single 5HEES approximately 1-2 hours after sublingually ingesting 10-20mg of Adderall in the morning, the energy drink will kick in to relieve the crash symptoms associated with IR. Drinking it towards the end reduces the risk of the energy drink negating the Adderall's and boosts concentration during the crash, especially helpful if SWIY is running low on the current prescription or SWIY doesn't feel like taking more Adderall until later. 5HEES doesn't have quite the kick of other energy drinks but SWIM doesn't experience a definitive crash either, just 4-5 hours of increased concentration and a bit of energy.

Smoking:
Smoking, as well as other American tobacco including Marlboro and Camel snus, contain unknown and potentially dangerous chemicals such as ammonia and TSNAs (they give an added kick like a cut in street drugs). Nicotine, in its pure form, does release dopamine with amount and duration depending on ROA and additives. These added chemicals way are more responsible for increased cardiovascular stress than the nicotine alone. Smoking will release a burst of dopamine that diminishes quickly, much like smoking crack, making the user want another one and particularly on Adderall this can lead to chain smoking. With the increased desire to smoke leading to higher pulse and blood pressure, if SWIY isn't already a heavy or daily smoker stay off of it when combining stimulants.

Snus:
SWIM also intakes 8-32mg of nicotine hourly with Swedish snus and has concluded it is his favorite tobacco product to use with stims. The Swedish brands make Marlboro and Camel seem like using benadryl recreationally in comparison. Snus manufacturers are required to list all ingredients on the can (salt, water, tobacco, and natural flavors with very few preservatives). Lower TSNAs and no dangerous chemicals make snus a safer choice when combining stimulants even with its higher nicotine content. Snus will release a steady flow of nicotine that creates a more relaxing sensation from the constant dopamine (similar to a benzo/stim mix but not as euphoric). Swedish snus is much more enjoyable to mix with stims with its extended euphoria (once SWIY gets heavily involved with an engrossing activity the snus fades out of memory and a steady increased euphoria can be felt for over an hour, very nice concentration booster as well) and doesn't cause the jittery, heart racing, and other "over-stimulated" side effects SWIY may feel from chain smoking.
Note that if SWIY plans to use Swedish snus that oral pH is very important, much like Adderall and stomach pH, so a snus user prefers to keep their mouth acidic to help absorption. If trying Swedish snus for the first time, or first time with stimulants, opt for a standard nicotine level (8mg is the average for a portion). The original portions are a quick hit portion that is usually a straight tobacco taste with only a hint of other flavor, so these can hit kind of hard if you're not used to it and the taste can cause nausea if the user isn't accustomed to oral tobacco. White portions are an extended release with a milder taste and/or more added flavorings, new users with minimal previous oral tobacco experience will probably enjoy white portions best. Strong/extra strong and loose/los are 12-16mg or potentially more with loose and a new user can often go overboard, if the user is not accustomed to high levels of nicotine it can cause nausea, hot flashes, shakiness, restlessness, and other symptoms of over stimulation without having either Adderall or 5HE in their system so neither is recommended for new users.

Possible Interactions:
Caffeine 240mg?:
5HEES is estimated to have 240mg of caffeine, which is a bump over the standard 5HE 180mg, but if SWIY can't handle a big cup of coffee on Adderall do not try 5HE, it may not have the enormous caffeine content of other energy drinks but it's still enough to make your heart race. As a comparison a 12oz Coke or Mountain Dew has 54mg, a 12oz Nestea has 26mg, and an average 8oz home-brewed coffee has about 100-200mg. Caffeine effects can vary widely from increased concentration and euphoria to excessive over stimulation that is very uncomfortable as well as cardiovascular effects that may be dangerous in combination with Adderall.

Niacinamide 40mg:
Niacinamide is the amide part of vitamin B3, which helps with numerous brain functions. There are some threads on it floating around in the nootropics section here, it is known to potentiate most drugs, including Adderall, and is also thought to be a good supplement to improve concentration in people with ADHD. It can help reduce some side effects such as jitteriness and anxiety as well as boost dopamine production. There are a few studies that show evidence of niacinamide specifically aiding in the crash from methylphenidate, but in much higher doses than is found in 5HE and it has not been tested with Adderall. 40mg is not a level that could be considered dangerous and some Adderall users may find it beneficial.

Pyridoxine HCL 40mg:
Known as vitamin B6, it is essential in the production of norepinephrine, seratonin, dopamine, and epinephrine and may help with depression and anxiety. 40mg is not a dangerous amount with 200mg daily being considered toxic by the FDA and 2-5mg or less is said to be a daily dose but there seems to be some debate over it. With the depleted dopamine levels from amphetamine use this is a vitamin SWIY will definitely want enough of but make sure SWIY doesn't end up with too much.

Folic Acid 400mcg:
Part of the production of vitamin B9, deficiency is uncommon since folate and folic acid are commonly found in most fruits, vegetables, and grains. Shortage of folate could be linked to depression and supplemental with SSRIs. It has some effect norepinephrine and seratonin. Some researchers are conducting studies to use it to aid with age-related loss of memory and motor function. Mostly associated with DNA construction and prenatal development in pregnant women. 400mcg is an average healthy daily intake, it is water-soluble and risk of toxicity is remote.

Cyanocobalamin 500mcg:
A man-made supplemental vitamin B12, this is a hot topic in the medical community with more theories than actual facts it would seem. What is known is that it is synthetic, one of the only B12 vitamins man is able to produce, found in a lot of supplements, and is created commonly when humans digest almost any animal product. The facts are pretty basic: daily intake is 5-15mcg, 5HE contains 500mcg, and the toxicity level is absurdly high at an estimated 50-200mg. Ever have to pee pretty quickly after drinking 5HE? Your body can only metabolize less than 10%, the rest it converts to potassium cyanide which gives SWIY a rush of energy, and it is water-soluble. Cyanide sounds unsafe but your body doesn't seem to do anything with it other than pee it out. For a person to overdose even at the minimum level of 50mg they would have to drink 100 5HE shots before they had to pee, needless to say that even with the abundance of this particular B12 supplement being taken there has never been a single case of toxicity. It isn't exactly unsafe since it exits so rapidly, the high amount just uses up resources to convert it and get it out. Not a dangerous method for an artificial burst of energy but it doesn't really do anything beneficial.

Taurine:
Unknown quantity, taurine is a naturally occurring organic acid found in most meat and seafood. Researchers know it is essential for a large number of bodily functions but it is not very well understood as to exactly what it does. For the purposes of Adderall users it could potentially help lower blood pressure and reduce anxiety,. Taurine is believed to augment GABA receptors, which would reduce the effectiveness of Adderall and produce an effect more like a benzo. Even though the quantity is unknown, toxicity is said to be above 1000mg per kg, so with the entire "energy blend" in the 5HE shot being 2000mg it isn't very likely to be toxic. Scientists say they aren't sure why so many energy drinks contain taurine as it likely reduces the energizing effects.

Glucuronolactone:
A structural component of nearly every part of the human body. Scientists again say they don't really know why it's in so many energy drinks, but toxicity is above 1000mg per kg.

Malic Acid:
An organic acid found in almost every corner in the body, the body naturally makes and breaks down malic acid and it has a lot of health-related uses such as immunity to disease. Commonly found in fruits, it is often used to give a sour flavor to candy and other food.

N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine:
A precursor amino acid to the production of dopamine, norepinephrine, and others. A tyrosine supplement may increase concentration or cause over stimulation, for a current stimulant user timing may be everything between replenishing depleted dopamine or over stimulating the brain with too much.

L-Phenylalanine:
An essential amino acid that is converted into tyrosine and phenylthylamine in the brain, which would be beneficial in supplementing amphetamine use.

Citicoline:
Citicoline is converted to CDP-choline by the brain, which is useful in the production of dopamine and norepinephrine among other functions. It is used as a mild stimulant and nootropic, tests have shown that it may have some effect treating drug and alcohol addiction.

Decaf?
After looking at much of this information, SWIM thinks he will try the decaffeinated version of this energy drink. It has a lot of essential nutrients, especially ones that could be beneficial in boosting production of the neurotransmitters Adderall is known to deplete, and without the risk associated with the combination of amphetamines and caffeine a shot could help keep the crash to a minimum. Although SWIM is still a bit unsure about the excessive B12 that is just excreted quickly, it doesn't appear to do any harm but at the same time if it doesn't do much other than artificially raise energy levels by the body excreting potassium cyanide why even bother ingesting it? Not an incredibly detailed study on the issue, but a shot of decaf 5HE every once in a while might really boost a stimulant user's general mood, and by replenishing the depleted neurotransmitters possibly even increase the future effectiveness for prolonged stimulant users.
  #2  
Old 26-02-2012, 18:16
tweek411 tweek411 is offline
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Re: Adderall IR and 5 Hour Energy

SWIM took 5 hour energy 2 shots and 80 MG of Dexedrine ONCE. VERY bad idea. SWIM had a IDLE Heart Rate of 180 BPM!!!!! SWIM was going thru crazy amounts of dexedrine in binges up to 400 MG in 24 hours! ITS INSANE! tollerance sucks! SWIM has a pretty big script for 180 10 MG Dexedrines and Dexedrine is about 25 percent stronger than adderall. Eh its a devil in disguise! Tolleranance sucks and now SWIM Doesnt get euphoria no matter how much he pops like in the start. It will just make SWIM feel like shit with high heart rate, jitters, and all around shit feeling. SWIM Misses the euphoria stimulants once yielded SWIM just now takes em to function just so SWIM Can get outta bed.

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Tags
adderall, adderall and caffeine, adderall ir, aderall, caffeine, coffee, drug, drugs-forum, effects of adderall, energy drink, energy drinks, energy shot, generic adderall, l-tyrosine, nicotine, smoking adderall, snus, sublingual adderall, tyrosine

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