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  #1  
Old 24-02-2012, 18:05
randomblock randomblock is offline
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First time injecting hydromorphone hcl 2mg pms pills

Hi I have a friend of a friend who recently had lung surgery and was in the hospital for about 2 weeks, from what he told me, apparently he was receiving about 3 2mg pills of hydromorphone every 4-6 hours, he had never taken it before. After being released from the hospital his doctor prescribed him with 30 2mg small round orange pills of a generic hydromorphone hcl, on one side of the pill read 2 and the other read pms. My friend has never injected anything before and had heard you were able to crush the pill and make it into a solution for injection. I have tried convincing him this is not a good idea but he will not listen so I am here asking the safest way to do this. We searched a lot on this forum for him but there is a lot of misleading information. He wants to know the exact steps for preparing this exact generic form of hydromorphone. Some people say use warm water some say cold, some say heat it up in the spoon and some say dont. So what exactly needs to be done for my friend to have a good safe experience for his first time doing this, and how big of dose should he be using? Also he has no idea on the steps of how to be injecting this such as what to rub on his arm and what vein to go into and how hard to push in or how big of needle and so on. If someone could help my friend with all the exact safest steps for this, that would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
  #2  
Old 26-02-2012, 01:01
baZING baZING is offline
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Re: First time injecting hydromorphone hcl 2mg pms pills

I don't IV so I can't help you in that respect, but there are a few problems with this post and this situation from my point of view. I'd like to try and clear some of them up, as well as maybe help your friend have a good time and live through the experience.

1. The information you have given about the prescribed pills is not enough for anyone to know which generic you are talking about. Do you have any idea how many generic hydromorphone brands there are? Either tell your friend to look at the bottle for the generic manufacturer's name, or go to this link: Pill ID and type in the information. Once you find it, if you click "view details" you should be able to see the manufacturer.

2. No one will be able to advise you the exact dose your friend should be using to IV hydromorphone, especially since he's a relatively new user and IVing is a totally different monster than any other ROA. Even if he were taking 6mg in the hospital, the oral BA of hydromorphone is only about 30-35% which means roughly 1.8mg was active in his system. It probably took about 40 minutes to kick-in, too, whereas IVing will take about 15 seconds to peak. In all seriousness, he should be using about .5mg or not IVing at all, preferably the latter. Intravenous hydromorphone is serious shit.

3. To ask for a complete step-by-step IVing instruction for a specific generic of hydromorphone is asking a lot from members considering the amount of information that is on this forum regarding IV drug use. It would help to ask slightly wider questions such "prepping hydromorphone ER tabs for IV," if you truly can't find it via the forum search engine. Additionally, broad-stroking the information on here as "misleading" is not really fair to our community. I'm sure there's some misleading information a lot of differing information, but you must understand that different generics have different binders and require different preps and people just do things in different ways. Considering your friend is not an addict (yet) and has more pills than he should know what to do with, I'm sure there are plenty of TEKs on here that he can read and experiment with and if he loses a quarter of a pill in the process (because that's all he should be IVing), boo-hoo. Better yet, find an experienced IVDU (intravenous drug-user) in person to show him the ropes. Even better yet, don't IV.

4. Has your friend considered plugging the hydromorphone? If you don't know, that means rectal administration. This ROA will greatly increase the bioavailability over oral usage, give a pretty good rush, decrease the likelihood of overdose (which is a very real possibility given your friend's low tolerance and risky want to IV) and should provide a very good time. He could do well with 1-2mg crushed, mixed in an oral syringe with room temp water (or lukewarm if you prefer-- will also aid in dissolving) shoved up there. There are plenty of detailed plugging guides all over this forum.

The biggest red flags that are sticking out to be is your friend's lack of experience, lack of tolerance, and lack of more experienced real-life safety net to help if things go wrong. Hydromorphone is an extremely potent opiate and he could truly be setting himself up for a dangerous experience. On the other hand, plugging is a great way to negate IV use and still get a good bang for his buck, not to mention will save his veins and quite possibly his life. If he does decide to IV, I strongly urge him to find someone more experienced in these matters in addition to any and all information he can find on this forum. Otherwise, this just sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

Stay safe.

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Very detailed post full of information. Great harm reduction.
Great help thanks buddy

Last edited by baZING; 27-02-2012 at 09:07.
  #3  
Old 26-02-2012, 03:48
randomblock randomblock is offline
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Re: First time injecting hydromorphone hcl 2mg pms pills

thanks man ya I actually convinced my buddy not to IV, and I have searched all over this forum for him and its really hard to know which is the right way to do things since so many people are contradicting everyone else with there methods. As for the plugging this is something he is looking to as an alterenative but I have also searched all over the forum for a good guide and havent quite found the exact step by step guide for doing that. He actually tried it and just crushed the pill mixed it with about 2ML of room tempature water and stirred it for about a minute or 2 then let it sit for about 5 minutes then stirred it again before putting it into the oral syringe and then whabam. He said he did not receive a good rush so the next day he tried it with 2 pills and still nothing really special. Should he be letting the crushed pill dissolve in the water for longer or what is he doing wrong? he also took a shit right before he plugged it in there so the stuff wouldnt just go into his poop.

randomblock added 8 Minutes and 16 Seconds later...

also apparently its made by pharmascience, Canada. it is a small round pale orange pill with 2 on one side and pms on the other. I searched it into that pill I.D thing and no results but i found the manufacturer just now through google.

Last edited by randomblock; 26-02-2012 at 03:48. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #4  
Old 26-02-2012, 05:42
baZING baZING is offline
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Re: First time injecting hydromorphone hcl 2mg pms pills

Well, as for a step by step guide your friend pretty much has it down; there's not a lot more different he can be doing other than playing with water temp and dose. He should also make sure the pill is crushed as finely as possible. You say he reports no "rush," but is he still getting a high from 4mg? He won't get the same rush from plugging as IVing but plugging will work much quicker and faster than oral administration. If he's not crushing the pills up finely enough, I'd start there at the same dose and with slightly warmer water. If he already crushed them as much as possible, then I guess 5mg. If he's going to try to do more at one time he really should only add 1mg at a time until he finds his comfort zone. Trust me though, plugging will work with hydromorphone... Guaranteed. Also, sorry about the link. I wasn't really thinking-- it's probably only for U.S. brands.
  #5  
Old 26-02-2012, 09:18
randomblock randomblock is offline
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Re: First time injecting hydromorphone hcl 2mg pms pills

oh ok thanks a lot for the help man. Since they are only 2 mg pillls is it bad to be putting more shit up there such as the fillers in the pill? obviously a 4mg pill would be best but 2's is all he has so what you think he should just add half a pill to each dose till he finds the perfect amount?
  #6  
Old 26-02-2012, 21:53
baZING baZING is offline
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Re: First time injecting hydromorphone hcl 2mg pms pills

I don't personally think the fillers/binders in the pills are really an issue for rectal administration unless the pharmaceuticals in questions are combination medications such as certain opiates that also contain NSAIDs or APAP, which your friend doesn't have. My dog Sparky has personally plugged up to 10mg of hydromorphone in 2mg pills with no ill-effects other than the fact the dose was a little too high, but that was definitely not a problem with the binders. If your friend is really worried about the fillers in each tablet he could try doing a watered-down IV prep (no-pun intended) and use some sort of micron filter to get as much of the excess crap that isn't hydromorphone out of the water as possible. I don't really think it's any cause for concern myself, though, especially since every 2mg hydromorphone pill I've ever seen is really pretty small in the grand scheme of things.

In terms of dose, yes, you have the right idea. I would advise trying to start with 4mg again and then add another 1mg after about 30 minutes if the first 4mg doesn't work (for a total of 5mg). If that seems to do the trick, he could just start with 5mg the next time. And remember what I said about the "rush," it won't be the same as IVing but it should still get him high for a few hours. Plugging will be a significantly slower onset than IVing to be sure, but should kick in relatively quickly all things considered. Even if the 4mg + 1mg after 30 minutes doesn't work, I would still try 5mg + 1mg after 30 minutes the next time your friend tries (as opposed to going right to 6mg all at once), again in the interest of safety. I have found when plugging hydromorphone that there's a very fine line between what "doesn't work" and what gets you super fucked up.

Also, your friend might want to consider getting his hands on some OTC anti-nausea medication when plugging hydromorphone as I've found personally that for whatever reason, this particular method of consuming this particular drug seems to cause a lot of nausea for me even though I am usually not susceptible to opiate-induced nausea. (I have a severe chronic pain condition and sometimes get IV hydromorphone in the emergency room; that doesn't cause nearly as much nausea as plugging does for me.) I don't know if they sell it OTC in Canada but Meclizine is a good one; the brand name in the U.S. is Bonine-- just look it up if your friend feels like he might need it. It's a slightly newer chemical than Dramamine (dimenhydrinate) and will cause significantly less drowsiness and side-effects if necessary.

Keep us posted!
  #7  
Old 28-02-2012, 05:31
randomblock randomblock is offline
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Re: First time injecting hydromorphone hcl 2mg pms pills

really appreciate you taking the time to give me all this information thanks man, My buddy just took your advice and plugged 5 mg in a bit of wrmer water like 10 minutes ago and he is definately feeling a lot beter then the other times he had tried it. Damn my buddy really wishes he could get his hands on more of this stuff haha

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For actually taking the advice given, being grateful for said advice, and doing your on leg work as well. Very polite post also. Great choice not to IV and taking great advice.
  #8  
Old 10-03-2012, 03:13
timbit timbit is offline
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Re: First time injecting hydromorphone hcl 2mg pms pills

Seriously consider injecting subcutaneous (S.C.) instead of I.V. It takes a little longer to kick in but is just as effective. I.V. works in under a minute while S.C. works within 5 minutes. The effects of I.V. are nearly identical to S.C. except with S.C. I'm not itchy like I get with I.V. use; the effects also last longer by S.C. then I.V. I should know, I use injectable hydromorphone between 6-8 times a day for the last 6 years or so because of unbearable chronic pain. I'm authorized & trained to inject in a vein if I need a faster onset but the majority of the time I use it S.C. & it works great.

Hydromorphone was specifically designed to be highly effective by S.C. It's the only narcotic like that. Hydromorphone was created to replace heroin & the chemists recognized that a major draw back to narcotic administration was that prompt pain relief required I.V. use. Obviously I.V. use has significant adverse effects as well as inherently limited injection sites; while S.C. can be injected almost anywhere, requires almost no skill & is far safer. Worst case situation with I.V. is permanent damage to your organs, vascular system, clots, death or worse permanently disfigured &/or disabled. With S.C. the worst likely to happen its they cut out the hunk of flesh that's infected (yes, theoretically you could die from such an infection but its highly unlikely that would happen especially if you got treatment when you notice any symptoms). The other nice thing about S.C. is you don't get track marks that'll give you away.

In terms of rectal administration, the 2 important things are making sure you're clean inside (i.e. No feces in the rectum) & making sure you don't put the drug too deep. The reason its not as effective orally is because it passes through the liver before entering the blood stream & the vascular system in the rectum can be the same. Blood that does through veins nearest to the anus lead through the body before being processed by the liver. However the veins that are deeper lead directly to the liver where the drug will be processed & much of it removed. So staying shallower will give you more bang for your buck.

As for the particulates, it definitely can cause significant & potentially life threatening complications. Yes, many people have injected the particulates in these pills, apparently without I'll effect but that doesn't mean its safe or wise to do it. That's another reason why S.C. is a better idea then I.V. because the risks of injecting particulates under the skin is far lower then into a vein. Again while it might cause some problems injecting under the skin, you aren't likely to die from it but injecting it into a vein could easily cause significant problems even potentially death.
  #9  
Old 10-03-2012, 03:52
OPIamore OPIamore is offline
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Re: First time injecting hydromorphone hcl 2mg pms pills

I'm just curious.... to the above poster, I have had experience in the past with both pills and ampules. Wouldn't there be a concern of abscessing doing said method with the pill form of the drug? I would say for medical ampules an IMing or SCing would be fine, however anytime one injects pills there could potentially be a problem.

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Yes, there is a signficant concern for abscesses.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:03
timbit timbit is offline
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Re: First time injecting hydromorphone hcl 2mg pms pills

OPI- You're absolutely right that abscesses are a significant risk when injecting pills, whether by S.C., I.M. or even I.V. (while the risk for abscesses is lower by I.V., its not entirely eliminated as its not uncommon to miss or blow out the vein & if that happens an abscess could form). However an abscess is generally highly localized & easily treated. The potential for death or irreparable severe injury is relatively quite low, especially when compared to I.V. use. S.C. is also significantly safer then I.M. as well because if complications do occur its going to be away from major critical structures & its usually relatively inconsequential as its just going to need antibiotics & worse casea chunk of skin is removed. If the same abscess happened in the muscle it could mean losing part of or all of the affected muscle which could cause permanent disability & disfigurement. I am not saying injecting subcutaneously is safe or wise. I am not saying anyone should inject pills (however its prepared). I am saying that if you're going to then S.C. is the safest way to do a very dangerous thing. I was also saying hydromorphone I'm particular was designed so that it could be administered subcutaneously & still have full effect with a rapid onset.

Timbit
  #11  
Old 10-08-2012, 20:51
chemical ali chemical ali is offline
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Re: First time injecting hydromorphone hcl 2mg pms pills

Quote:
Originally Posted by baZING View Post
I don't IV so I can't help you in that respect, but there are a few problems with this post and this situation from my point of view. I'd like to try and clear some of them up, as well as maybe help your friend have a good time and live through the experience.

1. The information you have given about the prescribed pills is not enough for anyone to know which generic you are talking about. Do you have any idea how many generic hydromorphone brands there are? Either tell your friend to look at the bottle for the generic manufacturer's name,
.
anyone in canada knows exactly what the OP is talking about. we only have brand name Dilaudid and generics marked pms.

the 2's are loaded with filler and are a bitch to draw up

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This post is unnecessary and adds nothing to the discussion. Not everyone here is from Canada; this is an international forum. Therefore its imperative that everyone be as clear as possible in their posts.
  #12  
Old 11-08-2012, 00:24
Schmick Schmick is offline
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Re: First time injecting hydromorphone hcl 2mg pms pills

I am not sure who makes the PMS ones but they are the same ones this guy I know gets. No need to crush or even use warm water.
- drop required dose into one of the big baby medicine syringes
- put the plunger back in
- depress the plunger to get out most of the air
- suck up some water
- Let the pills dissolve for a couple minutes
- shake look and see if they are completely dissolved
- pull the plunger back a bit to get the liquid out of the tip
- get the air out

Note: Important, the tip may plug if you let all the fillers settle so shake one more time right before you plug (of course keep a finger over the tip....) Alternatively before you begin this process use a nail to make the tip a bit wider..
  #13  
Old 18-11-2012, 21:57
baffsalty baffsalty is offline
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Re: First time injecting hydromorphone hcl 2mg pms pills

can i do this with the LCI 1353????

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hydromorphone, inject hydromorphone, intravenous help, plugging, subcutaneous injection

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