Cyclidines

[Alfa]

The class of Cyclidines includes PCP (phencyclidine), TCP (tenocyclidine), PCPY (Rolicyclidine aka PHP) and MK-801 (aka Dizocilpine). There are many others. Information about PCP and Mk-801 can be found in this forum. Please post information about other Cyclidines here.

[enquirewithin]

...there are voices. i've had this experience before, but the mk-801 version is quite different....different voices seems to talk about different things, but all of them mostly meaningless. some are like radio comentary, some are just repetitive mindless subvocalizations... let me add that this was 100% dysphoric. mk-801 is like having a tv going in the next room, with no visuals so the dialogue doesn't make sense. ... mk-801 was like a horror novel phone call from hell. it was MUCH more distinct and powerful than the pseudopsi effects of k or dxm, but it was also WRONG....

in anycase, i'd say that mk-801 is NOT recreational.. start at 50ug and work up. do NOT compound doses - one per day, period....

This was from a forum. There was a lot more but the mesage is clear enough. For that person anayway, MK-801 wasn't that pleasant. The writer compares Mk-801 unfavourably to ketamine and DXM.

[Alfa]

Originally Posted by Alfa

Please post information about other Cyclidines here.

I was not asking about MK-801.

[JewishNazi]

There arent really any others that people are able to get their hands on. SWIM is currently trying to get a custom synth of deschloro-ketamine (ketamine without the chlorine on it, aparently, this woul make it more potent, and it would also reduce the posible places for deactivation)

He is also trying to get the 3-methoxyphenyl analogue of ketamine synth'd. Or maybe the butyl of PCP. Unfortunately, not many vendors are willing to get a custom synth for a single researcher

[chemistUK]

Where is the butyl group on your proposed butyl PCP analogue? Are you planning to substitute piperidine for butylamine? Also, the non-Chlorine Ketamine sounds like an interesting plan.... perhaps it would be a little easier to synthesise than normal K...

[fastandbulbous]

Originally Posted by JewishNazi

There arent really any others that people are able to get their hands on. SWIM is currently trying to get a custom synth of deschloro-ketamine (ketamine without the chlorine on it, aparently, this woul make it more potent, and it would also reduce the posible places for deactivation)

Well the most potent of the group (while still retaining a benzene ring as the aryl group) is 2-phenyl-2-(N-ethylamino)cyclohexanone which is aprox 4x the potency of ketamine; the one you mention above (the N-methylamino derivative) will be about 2x the potency of ketamine. The 2-chloro group actually increases the analgesic effect of ketamine (mu agonist activity), so if that group proved important to the subjective experience you could always aim for 2-(2-chlorophenyl)-2-(N-ethylamino)cyclohexanone (a.k.a. N-ethyl norketamine). This would retain the analgesic activity, but by replacing the methyl group of ketamine with an ethyl group this would double the potency of the resulting compound w.r.t. ketamine.

Ketamine is not inactivated by any action at the 2-chloro group, so had chance to only have a slight effect of the kinetics of ketamine metabolism

Reputation Comments on this post:

	excelent info again. keep up the good work!
	brilliant relevant info, as usual F&B

[genaro]

well, to keep the attention back to the subject, here are the few ones I heard about:

-pcp related:

PCE
PCPy (aka PHP)
TCP
TCPy

dizocilpine (aka mk-801) is also chemically related to pcp in some way, right?

-ketamine related:

tiletamine

-dxm related (I know this wasn't the subject but I love dxm so if we talk dissociatives, then I must talk dxm):

Dextrorphan (aka DXO)
Levomethorphan (and Levorphanol)
3-Substituted DXM Analogs (possible substitutions listed in the dxm FAQ on erowid.org)


I hope some days a creazy psychedelic chemist will investigate dissociatives analogues of pcp, ketamine and dxm more deeply.
So I keep dreaming of reading DiHKAL, the new book by alexander shulgin (dissociatives I have known and loved)...unfortunately he says he doesn't like dissociatives so I don't think this is ever going to happen...

[geezaman]

SWIMs about to ask a dumb but hopeful question, you've been warned, as its so dumb hes gonna ask it in a dumb way. In the UK TCP is an antiseptic liquid easily available from chemists/pharmacy, is this the same TCP as mentioned in the first post? If so could and high be obtained from it if used similarly to PCP liquid? don't worry SWIM will defiantly be waiting for an answer before considering this further

Stupid question now over
peacse

[Abrad]

Ehh no...

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

TCP is a mild antiseptic, produced in France by Laboratoires Chemineau in Vouvray and sold in the United Kingdom by Pfizer.

The brand name comes from its original chemical name, which was Trichlorophenylmethyliodosalicyl (not to be confused with Trichlorophenol, a common fungicide). Trichlorophenylmethyliodosalicyl was replaced as the active ingredient by a mixture of phenol and halogenated phenols in the 1950s. The liquid form of TCP is one of the most well-known brands of antiseptic in the UK, and its distinctive sweet, medicinal odour can be identified by many as the generic smell of antiseptic.

The rights to TCP have been sold by Pfizer for "strategic reasons" to a Belgian company known as Omega Pharma.[1][2]

[geezaman]

SWIM was hopefull, who wouldnt be if they thought they had come across 500ml bottles of a PCP like substance in any quantitly they wanted, Oh well never mind, SWIM would struggle to imagine smoking it anyway, lol

[machine_elf]

Swim believes 4-MeO-PCP to be of significant interest. It is also legal (but may come under analogue laws in the US). It also looks relatively easy to synthesise.... definately one worth noting.

Warning: while the final compound is not scheduled, and therefore is legal, one of the intermediates (PCC) is a schedule II controlled substance in the USA. Thus proper licensing would be required to undertake this procedure. Note that replacement of pyrrolidine with piperidine in step 1 of this synthesis would provide a final compound that would almost certainly be as potent as 4-methoxy PCP, and would avoid the use of controlled PCC.

4-methoxy PCP has been previously tested in animals and found to be somewhat less potent than PCP itself. Results in this human volunteer confirm this. A rough estimate would be 70% as potent. This is still significant, considering how potent PCP is.

A possible advantage of this analog is decreased duration of effect. This is because the 4-methoxy group provides a site for metabolism and elimination of the drug. This is a significant point, because the extended action of PCP is a real disadvantage in cases of acute overdosage.

For those that are unfamiliar with the effects of these compounds, the experience is very hard to describe. The most commonly known compound that is directly comparable is ketamine. Ketamine's effects are quite similar to PCP and 4-methoxy PCP, but K. is much less potent.


The bioassay.

What i am about to tell you, my friends, has a very close relation to my recent thread on psychotechnologies. Initially i even wanted to post this report in there, but then a new topic on cyclidines appeared, and i posted this synth, and Antoncho asked for a report - all in all, the Fate itself demands me to share with you what i once have seen THERE.

I've made many cyclidines but this compound turned out to bee the most potent of them all, after PCP - and at the same time, the easiest to make. And by the fortunate accident, it happens to bee the only one of them all (xcept for ketaminic analogues) that i still use to this day. And - it is THE compound on which i have experienced two of the four most shocking/frightening/mysterious/grandieu<WBR>se/encha<WBR>nting/un<WBR>explaina<WBR>ble trips in my life. Almost half a year has passed since the last time, but up to this moment the very thoughts in my head stall frozen as i begin to think of it.

I can't recall when it happened for the 1st time, but i remember very vividly how it all began. It started as a barely noticable ringing inside my ears that resembled of a sound of a chainsaw - in which a rhythm soon appeared. As if the noise was periodically fading and strengthening again. The frequency of the pulsations was pretty high. Then another sound added to the cacophony - a drumbeat. The noise beecame louder and louder.

I beegan to grasp for air and suddenly realized that the drumbeat was actually the sound of my loudly pounding heart! About 120 bpm (here i can't resist noting that a healthy person's heart can safely stand the heartrate that is calculated as follows: 220 bpm minus one's age; that is, ~190 bpm in this case. Of course, the main reason of concern in such cases is blood pressure, not heartrate). And then i was literally flooded by the wave of FEAR - not even fear, but an unexplainable HORROR. I was lying on my bed unable to move even my eyes. The wallpaper's pattern beecame very sharp and beegan flowing from the left to the right. Actually, the whole room was covered with blurred horizontal stripes. The colors began to fade as if someone was slowly turning down a TVset's color control. The darkness thickened. The chainsaw's howling beecame unbearable.

And then the room started to assume a different shape. Ordinary it is a prolonged rectangle, with two doors on the opposite sides - one to the balcony, the other leading to the corridor. But now the corridor door disappeared and there suddenly appeared another one, where there used to bee a wall. The door itself was black but its corners were lit as if with a luminiscent light. I was close to fainting. That bluish-white light was pulsing in unison with the rhythm of my insanely racing heart. I would have screamed but my body ceased to obey me. The only thought circulating through my head was: "What if i don't return now, never return". Don't know - maybee beecause of the overwhelming fear, or something else, but i suddenly beegan to feel my body again. And i crawled along my bed - that was a purely instinctive action. I didn't even think what i was doing and why - it was only later that i realized that i'd turned myself on the stomach and crawled - but that was the salvation. The light's pulsations disappeared, darkness went away, the wallpaper stopped flowing. Colors came back. Consciousness began to reinstall itself.

And some time after that i came upon a psychiatric site dedicated to the borderline states of consciousness and - you can imagine my feelings - discovered a description of a temporal epileptic seizure syndrome that was almost identical to what i'd experienced on PCDE! The only xception was that i didn't feel any weird smells like burnt rubber, sulfur etc. - and of course, no mention of any doors and such. But the whole picture - flickering lights, sharp unpleasant sounds, paralizing fear - all fit in very well.

Half a year ago i decided to undertake one more trip into that dimension. Only this time i was prepared for everything and could manage my fear. And came almost all the way till the very end. Why 'almost'? I'll tell you.

When the room was immersed completely in the darkness and its corners and the doors beecame lit with that unearthly light, the chainsaw's screaming started to gradually soften. I couldn't move again, but strangely could see almost 270 degrees around myself. Possibly, it'd been like that the previous time, only then i could see just some limited space and all the rest was enveloped in grey striped fog.

Light's pulsations gradually ceased. And the silence came. There was nothing else - just the darkness and the horrible shining around the doors and the room's corners. And then i realized that the silence was absolute, even my heart wasn't beating! I lay on the bed, enchanted by this silence. It wasn't a 'ringing' silence - it was the ABSOLUTE silence.

And then thoughts started coming inside my head out of the air, of nowhere. I understood that where i was it was the 'space in between'. I stared at these doors and was frightened to approach any of them. I didn't know what was beehind them. But i realized very clearly my insignificance and smallness. Alone in this horrendous room. Alone - face to face with who-knows-what. I suddenly understood that the universe doesn't give a shit for any of us. That there exist worlds in it which are totally alien to the human world. Frightening in their incomprehensibility and their unintelligible laws. And what if i step into one of these worlds. And meet there something that will destroy me faster then i beecome conscious of myself. Something DIFFERENT. Not beecause it is evil, but simply beecause it won't even suspect any consciousness in me and smash me on the floor just like we smash cockroaches in our kitchens. We don't ever think cockroaches are capable of loving or writing poetry, do we? Funny, isn't it? We here in this world of ours are so fond of 'Love', cherish it, make a cult of it, sing the beaty and power of human mind - but someone else will not even suspect a sparkle of consciousness in us. Will run us over and won't notice it.

And so i was there, lost in contemplating the meaninglessness of our lives, all the goals that seemed important and noble bee4 turned out to bee a fiction, imposed on us by social stereotypes and something else - i don't know what and whom. And in THERE i understood Ecclesiast's words: "...human life and animal life is one, and the breath for the both is one, and there is no advantage for a man to a cattle, for all is meaningless". It was horrible to realize this ABSOLUTE MEANINGLESSNESS OF LIFE. Horrible to realize the absolute freedom and unshelteredness. i never thought that freedom can bee so frightening and unwanted.

I didn't enter any of the doors.

And upon passage of some time i bought a CD w/an underground techo music - usually i never buy techno, always 'dance' or 'techno-dance', but this time decided to take a look. And in one of the tracks i recognized that unmistakable howling of the chainsaw. The composition's name is 'Die Offenbarung.mp3' by Johannes Heil.(this composition, found in the web by Hellowin of HyperLab, can bee downloaded at http://mp3.sakha.net/?file=5460 (10,6 Mb)). If someone happens to find this record, he'll know approximately what i heard then. Since that time i call such music 'the music of temporal epileptics'. I often wonder what made Johanness Heil create this rhythm and instrumentals.

[Misanthropy]

Could someone please provide CAS#'s for all of these compounds.

Specifically of interest to me is the CAS# for the 4-meo variant.

Please & thank you. )

[honourableone]

CAS numbers:

TCP - 21500-98-1
PCE - 2201-15-2
PCPy - 2201-39-0

CAS #'s for 4-MeO-PCP:

4-MeO-PCP freebase is 2201-35-6
4-MeO-PCP HCl is 2185-93-5
4-MeO-PCP picrate is 23036-17-1

I struggled to find the numbers for 4-meO-PCP, but then found them elsewhere in the forums (courtesy of Mictihtoya) in response to you asking the exact same thing a week ago. Pay attention

[Desertfox]

Originally Posted by fastandbulbous

Well the most potent of the group (while still retaining a benzene ring as the aryl group) is 2-phenyl-2-(N-ethylamino)cyclohexanone which is aprox 4x the potency of ketamine; the one you mention above (the N-methylamino derivative) will be about 2x the potency of ketamine. The 2-chloro group actually increases the analgesic effect of ketamine (mu agonist activity), so if that group proved important to the subjective experience you could always aim for 2-(2-chlorophenyl)-2-(N-ethylamino)cyclohexanone (a.k.a. N-ethyl norketamine). This would retain the analgesic activity, but by replacing the methyl group of ketamine with an ethyl group this would double the potency of the resulting compound w.r.t. ketamine.

Ketamine is not inactivated by any action at the 2-chloro group, so had chance to only have a slight effect of the kinetics of ketamine metabolism

I think this poster was really on to something. is He/She a still active member? I wonder if they got a chance to explore this hypothesis in the lab or got his info from someone who had successfully tested this hypothesis?