I seldom see this mentioned and feel that it should be a general guideline/warning, that I have learned the hard way.
When drinking alcohol and bdo at the same time, the bdo will convert into ghb AFTER the alcohol is completely out of the system. This means that if you drink four beer the bdo will kick after about two hours (individual value). The real danger in this is when you re-dose the bdo because you don't feel it kicking - it will just float around in your system "waiting" for the alcohol to be metabolized and then convert into ghb all at the same time. This ISN'T the case with gbl and ghb, which will mix fine with alcohol. Please KEEP this in mind when mixing bdo and alcohol. Else you WILL overdose with what else seems like a normal dose+redose.
Woah, I'd say this is some pretty important info... especially since everyone says NOT to drink with GLB/GHB. Everyone knows that this advice will only spawn certain people to actually TRY mixing them with alcohol.
I'm guessing that the supposed delay you are referring to could take place because they are both alcohols--EtOH and BDO. And both broken down by alcohol dehydrogenase.
Anyone else have this same experience? or am I the last member to know about this strange, delayed effect? Sounds like something pretty important. and it couldn't be good for your liver.
redosing is a danger with any substance, but this intriguing information makes swim never want to attempt 1,4 with or without alcohol. calculating the proper dosage seems to be too risky, and anything that will keep a strong GABAergic effect going long after one thinks it would wear off could prove disasterious physically, socially, etc. this is excellent advice to have, awesome first post, vongamma.
seems that recreationally IS VERY DANGEROUS.......but it seems that in moderation doesnt have any effect. (Meaning a glass of wine or beer with dinner then at bed time GHB has no side effects) Does anyone have any input into the same time span with GHB and short acting benzos like xanax?
Swim would like to note swim never condones mixing alcohol with butanediol. Swim's starfish friend passed out like a light after mixing just two shots of vodka with a small dose of 1.4 (appx. 1 ml) after not being able to get up off the couch for roughly 45 minutes or so. Swim and swim's starfish friends have however taken xanax in combination with 1.4, swim did on a 6 ml dose once (swim weighs about 320 lbs. and always is able to handle larger doses of any drug, but wouldn't recommend more than 10 ml at the most every 6 hours) and felt extremely euphoric and relaxed. It helped swim to pass out fairly nicely after about an hour or so. When taken with a smaller dose of about 4ml, swim was able to stay awake, and had a lot of energy from the butanediol, and was super relaxed and stress free from the xanax. Swim's head was still clear, and so was the starfish's. Btw, swim took 3 dillies each time (.5 mg) with it, and it seemed to compliment 1.4's effects rather nicely without overpowering it.
Here are some good papers to check out about it.
"1,4-Butanediol and ethanol compete for degradation in rat brain and liver in vitro." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3814347
Quote:
1,4-Butanediol and ethanol compete for degradation in rat brain and liver in vitro.
Poldrugo F, Snead OC 3rd.
We examined the enzymatic reaction responsible for the conversion of 1,4 butanediol to gamma-hydroxybutyric acid and the interaction of ethanol with this conversion in brain and liver. The enzyme responsible for this reaction in liver appears to be alcohol dehydrogenase. However, in both tissues, there was a competitive inhibition by ethanol of the conversion of 1,4 butanediol to gamma-hydroxybutyric acid with an apparent Ki of 6.5 X 10(-3) M in brain and 2.7 X 10(-3) M in liver. These findings may explain the potentiation of the behavioral effects of ethanol by 1,4 butanediol.
1,4 Butanediol, gamma-hydroxybutyric acid and ethanol: relationships and interactions.
Poldrugo F, Snead OC 3rd.
We have investigated the interaction of 1,4 butanediol (1,4 BD) with ethanol and the involvement of the major metabolite of 1,4 BD, gamma-hydroxybutyric acid (GHB) in the ability of 1,4 BD to produce behavioral and EEG changes in rat as well as the toxic side effects of 1,4 BD. Behavioral, electrical, and biochemical studies in rats suggest that the effects of 1,4 BD are indeed mediated by GHB. Further, ethanol appears to block conversion of 1,4 BD to GHB. 1,4 BD however potentiates some of the behavioral effects of ethanol perhaps by a mechanism of action similar to that of other alcohols. Thus 1,4 BD appears to have two types of pharmacologic actions, one attributable to its conversion to GHB and the other an inherent property of the diol itself.
On a sidenote, swim can speak from experience as well. Multiple times swim has tested how long it takes for a dose of BDO to be metabolized into GHB. Swim often doses 2-2.5ml of BDO. This is normally felt within 2min, peaking at around 30-40min. His first 2 experiments had been after a single drink , which he was able to get effect from a normal dose 3 hours later without any delay. and after 3 drinks over the course of an hour. , which delayed his effects after consuming a dose 3 hours later.
Last experiment was after having 9 drinks over the course of 6 hours. Swim had insomnia but was exhasted and started to get desperate for sleep. +6 hours after he had stopped drinking booze, he attempted to dose 2ml of BDO. An hour later after no effect, he dosed 1.5 ml of bdo, an hour later, still after no effect. He dosed 1 more ml. 30 minutes later(9+ hours after last alcohol 3.5+ hours after inital BDO dose) swim felt a very strong effect come on, as well as some nausea. He woke 3 hours later, slightly inebriated, with a slight upset stomach and horny( nothing new there) , After having sex with his hunny, he felt very nauseous for the next few hours. Not sure if the sex sped up his system or if he would have walked around the nauseas would had hit him anyways, but thats the way it happened to swim.
Overall swim would say if you had one drink , you would be fine doing a dose of BDO three or more hours later, any more alcohol then that and it will be less effective, may not work at all for hours, and possible give stronger nausea due to it stacking up effect, and of it cycling unprocessed through your body.
14-04-2006, 05:47
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