curiosity...is it killing you?

[dimple_diva]

im curious to know...and would just love enlightened answers other than my own, which i will post after work.... why, when we all KNOW that meth is the devil...and you almost NEVER hear people say how happy they are to be addicted to meth...how they NEVER thought it would happen to them...
WHY DO PEOPLE STILL TRY IT? WHY DO THEY TEMPT FATE LIKE THAT?
any REALLY good insights?

[bewilderment]

I think you're right in your subject line...curiosity. Also, one would usually hope that their previous knowledge of how bad addiction to the drug is would kick in and prevent the impending addiction if one is such a person inclined to becoming addicted to this substance. Some people can overestimate their own willpower. Either that, or they underestimate the addictive potential of the substance.

"It really can't be THAT addictive, can it?? I should try it out and see..."

Swim has tried meth three times simply because the group swim was out with was using it so it was free. Swim couldn't really distinguish what the effects were because of another drug she was on at the time which was very stimulating in itself. All she could tell was that it made her stay up all night...Swim really has no desire to do it again unless it's free and put in her face when not much else is available. But, this clearly isn't the case with the group swim was with...they were very, very into this substance and swim was curious as to 'why'.

[jduba]

who knows...wish i could tell you, im a recovering meth addict and after having my hearty restarted for the secon time at 21 i decided it time to quite. i think the "im young and nothing can harm me" attitude that many of us kids carry with us is one big reason for it also prob the reason why the draft for a war is done at 18 cause you think your shit dont stink and you cant be touched. As for the devil...if there is such a think meth is def. it.

[old hippie 56]

As swim mentioned before in another post, swim goes down that road three times a year. Swim knows that this shit is bad for him and it has a way of grabbing swim by the balls and not letting go. So swim does a little and forgets about it. But to answer your question dimple, swim likes the feeling that it gives and the way swim can get shit done.

[Richard_smoker]

yeah... SWIM knows about this and the notorious opiates, like for example hydrocodone. I'm not quite sure people do stupid shit like this, but I'm CONVINCED it has something to do with the mid-brain/reptilian brain that is all BENEATH the cortex (consciousness, etc.).

Also, boredom comes into play as well... Shit, I even remember sitting in my drug-ed class in 6th grade, thinking, "Holy SHIT, I've gotta try some of that stuff!" and then I continued to struggle with an addiction to heroin when i hadn't even tried any drugs at all! You can't ever discredit the powers of suggestion either. When you hear about how 'wonderful' something makes you feel, nobody cares that the heading of your discussion is "THIS IS SOMETHING TERRIBLE FOR YOU". all they hear is the part about how it makes you feel... and for most people, when they hear about something that makes you feel so great that it causes habituation, then it must be REALLY good! ha... fuck that. don't try the meth. it ain't worth it. trust me. If you've gotta do something, then just go get evaluated for ADHD. At least that way, you know what you're getting. and it hasn't been cooked up in some random addict's bathtub... and it isn't some fucked-up pH, mainly ephedrine bullshit, either.

[dimple_diva]

i wasn't curious about trying meth...to start with. i have been down that road, and its lonely, sad, and hard to find a turn in. i was just wondering to myself this morning...when someone i know decided that they wanted to possibly experiment and try something new. it seemed i could give him a thousand reasons not to... i could give him a few reasons it can be fun. all of our friends just watched someone dear to us overcome a serious addiction to almost any drug he could get his hands on, until he overdosed and changed his life. i have old friends that couldn't kick the habit, who are walking stick figures... whose only goal is getting their next fix. friends living in cars, or even worse cars of friends. watching countless people go to jail, or be hunted by bondsman. people we used to know who have lost EVERYTHING... including any morals they once had and are now stealing anything they can get their hands on...to pawn it or trade it, in hopes of getting high.
AND STILL...there is someone we all know who decided to try it this morning. i was heart broken watching my friend say... don't worry, it won't happen to me. and when i said to this friend, believe me, thats what we all said. everyone starts out doing other peoples stuff...not buying their own, only having some here or there when offered... and all of those once upstanding citizens, with wives, husbands, children, jobs, homes, food to eat, and loving families... become addicts. i hope, that anyone considering trying meth, would think hard about doing it first. is the fun really going to be worth the loss you are going to surely encounter in the future?
i know it wasn't for me. it wasn't for my bf. it isn't for the old friends i had. it wasn't for the friend who overdosed. and it won't be for you. dont fool yourself into believing you wont get addicted. thats what we all did. thats what we all said.

I would also like to proudly add...that I am currently 2 months sober, and I got lucky, and never lost anything that i can see at this moment. I am sure I lost time with my kids, and memories i can never replace. My bf is 2 months sober, and my two best friends are as well. we all thought life would be boring, and we wouldnt be able to find something to entertain ourselves. we found eachother. and we found, there are so many things in life that look different through the eyes of sobriety.
thank you for listening to my insanely long rant, however, this was on my mind all day. i didn't want to share or discuss it with my now sober friends, because talking about it seems to make everyone uncomfortable.
GOD BLESS

[jduba]

All i have to say is congrats Dimple Diva! Im now a year and half clean frpm that shit and applaud you for doing what your doing... i know it aint easy but it such an improvement on your daily life

[Richard_smoker]

Yeah--I kinda went on a rant there too diva...

Congratulations. Everyone in the world does stupid things. It's not how bad you fucked up, but how you jump back that determines your character and fortitude.

I couldn't help but notice that it looks like all of you quit at the same time. You've GOT to remember something very important about this... I know it's already been 2 months, but you've GOT to start getting some new friends as well. PLEASE do this. WHY? because when people quit together, sometimes 1 or more of the quitters will go back. If they do this, then fine. You don't have to go back with them. That's why I think it's very important to have some great sober friends; maybe even some who have never ever done the drugs you were addicted to, but they're cool enough for you to tell them what you've been through and what you're going thru now. Also, as you've already done, please use this board as a support group. There are HUNDREDS of people around here who would love nothing more than to talk you out of relapsing and to help you with life's bullshit. I would recommend saving the link to THIS thread. Re-read your posts about everything you have to live for... these replies, and think about your kids, like you said.

On a different note, I've known a good many people who are able to stay 'clean' from speed by getting a script for welbutrin from their doc... just a suggestion. i don't know your specific story, but if you get tempted ever, you might want to talk to your doc about depression and welbutrin... or tell him you're depressed AND want to quit smoking. that way, he'll come up with the 'welbutrin' idea on his own--that is, if he has a brain. Good luck and don't be hesitant to lean on any of us when you need someone!

We're all rooting for you!

I know that you already know everything I just said. I know that. and it makes me feel kinda stupid telling you this stuff. it's just that I care enough that I want to make SURE that you know these things... not that i have to tell you, b/c after all it HAS been 2 months! and I'm sure you've had your ups-and-downs. Please don't look at this and roll your eyes because it all comes from the heart. every word. that's all i got for the moment, but give me a few minutes and i'm sure i'll be 100% full of new bullshit, ready to spread... Post here anytime, and feel free to PM me when you're down. I've had others tell me that I was a good cheerleader when they were in a similar situation, so take advantage of what you have here. It would be an honor to help. -RS

[Blake]

Originally Posted by dimple_diva

im curious to know...and would just love enlightened answers other than my own, which i will post after work.... why, when we all KNOW that meth is the devil...and you almost NEVER hear people say how happy they are to be addicted to meth...how they NEVER thought it would happen to them...
WHY DO PEOPLE STILL TRY IT? WHY DO THEY TEMPT FATE LIKE THAT?
any REALLY good insights?

As a psych student one of the first things discussed was the fact that almost all creatures in the animal kingdom 1. have ways of getting high and 2. actually get high/drugged up throughout the course of their lives. Everything from monkeys to elephants, to koala bears, to bumble bees. It's something animals do. It has nothing to do with how many times we hear about the negative outcomes of things. The greater question is "why do we get high in general?" Not "we" as human beings either. "We" as in the bevy of mamals, reptiles, and insects that do.

Moreover in the original question you specifically mentioned addiction. Who said that everyone who tries out a drug is looking to become addicted? Moreover statistically most drug users AREN'T addicts and ON TOP OF THAT are working/schooling, decently paid to very well paid, productive members of society. Most people aren't junkies nor do most people die from drug use of any kind. Maybe the next time I see an alcoholic who's ruined his life stumble out of a bar I'll ask myself "why do people ever try alcohol?" Then I'll remember that most people aren't alcoholics and haven't had their lives ruined by having a drink now and then. So much of it all is fundamentally the same, whether it's prescribed drugs or not. Drugs of all kinds have been in use since the beginning and surprise surprise the world hasn't exploded. Drug use is serious, but not nearly as serious as some might like us to think. Anyway in attempts to answer the question with regards to addiction and use I'll reference a psychological experiment that was done a while back (circa 1950's).

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Many researchers attribute our desire for highs to the most primative parts of the brain, very close to the brain stem. In experiments which were conducted, scientists found a way to connect electrodes to lab rats brains in a way that would allow them to stimmulate their pleasure center. They placed the rat in a confined space with a button or lever of some sort. When the button was pressed, the electrodes stimmulated the rats brain giving it an incredible pleasure and high. Once the rat understood the connection between the button and the high, it continued to repeatedly press the button and achieve the high until it starved to death.

They began trying the experiment with larger animals; monkeys, cats, dogs, all the same ... they would continue activating the electrodes until they starved to death or died of exhaustion.

Scientists eventually tested the experiment out on dolphins. The dolphins would press the button to achieve the high repeatedly for hours and hours and then when it's strength seemed to have withered down to almost nothing it would stop pressing the button, go get food, and then come back to the button.

They ran the same test on humans; prisoners serving very long sentances. I don't know what the results were but one can guess what happened. ;-)

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good, relevant info on the nature of addiction.

[jduba]

thats cute and all that thats what they teach you in psych class but can teel you (though it may only be an example) meth and alch are two diff worlds. The psychological effects on your brain that meth has turns you into a paranoid schizophrenic who has no idea they are hooked until its too late. meth is the one drug that swim can say that he has never seen someone use for a min of a weekend bender and just simply walk away. Most all of swims friends and family has died or will be in jail the rest of his life. most 20/20 (or like shows) stories blow shit outta proportion, ex. myspace, but when they say meth CRISIS I believe that! Ive never seen someone walk away from meth. Ive only seen them 6 feet under or in jail and still using. I think if you did a study of the number of people that try and use meth regularly and then look at hpw many of the are addicts you will be hard pressed to find many occasional users and if you do find em they wont be for long.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good point and so damn true

[bewilderment]

Good, relevant info Blake. Also as an aside, there is a not so well known follow up experiment regarding addiction (specifically with rats). It was an experiment called "Rat Park" Here's a bit of info

Rat Park was a 200-square-foot (18.6 m2) housing colony built for a group of white Wistar laboratory rats in 1981 by American psychologist Bruce K. Alexander at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia, Canada.

The colony was built to examine Alexander's hypothesis that drug addiction is a myth and that continued drug use, particularly the use of heroin, is largely the product of unhappiness, not neurophysiological compulsion. Alexander hypothesized that the addiction to morphine commonly observed in laboratory rats exposed to it is attributable to the conditions in which they are normally kept, and not to any addictive property of the drug itself. Laboratory rats are "gregarious, curious and active creatures," Alexander told the Canadian Senate in 2001, but are isolated in cramped metal cages, then "subjected to surgical implantations in the hands of an eager (but seldom skillful) graduate student, followed by being tethered in a self-injection apparatus." Such experiments show only that "severely distressed animals, like severely distressed people, will relieve their distress pharmacologically if they can," he said. [1]

Better surroundings, Alexander believed, would reduce or eliminate the apparent dependence. To test his hypothesis, he built Rat Park. It was 200 times the square footage of a standard laboratory cage. There was companionship, with 16–20 rats of both sexes in residence, an abundance of food, empty tins for burrowing, balls and wheels for play, a special space for mating, shavings for nesting, and a private place for giving birth (Slater 2004). The results of the experiment appeared to support Alexander's hypothesis. The control group housed in the usual laboratory conditions consumed up to 20 times more morphine than the rats in Rat Park, and even those already addicted weaned themselves off the drug once moved there. They wanted to play, eat, and mate, Alexander concluded, not be anesthetized. "Nothing that we tried," he wrote, "instilled a strong appetite for morphine or produced anything that looked like addiction in rats that were housed in a reasonably normal environment." [2]

Alexander's research was part of the wider debate about how society should react to drug use, his hypothesis supporting the argument that social solutions, rather than medical or legal responses, are the best way to curb addictive behavior. However, his study was not well received by the mainstream scientific community. The two major biology journals Science and Nature rejected his paper, which eventually appeared in Pharmacology, Biochemistry and Behavior, a respectable but much smaller publication. Because of the paper's lukewarm reception, Simon Fraser University withdrew Rat Park's funding, and the experiment is now largely forgotten.

That's a snippet of an article found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park

I think it certainly sheds a lot of light on the nature of addiction.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good info on addiction

[old hippie 56]

Swim remembers reading about this, wondered what happen to the study.
Sounds like the medical and legal people didn't want to hear this. No patent on medicines to bring in money, and no more inmates for the multi-million dollar prisons.