Drug info - new perspectives on coca "chewing", alternative coca administration methods

[novo]

Yes, that was the method. The extract was nearly dry when it was mixed, and once it was, no drying was needed, though freezing hardened it. I don't know that 10 g is optimum, because there was still a good amount of coca in the second soaking of alcohol. So it is actualy less than 10 g per candy.

[Heliosphan]

From an Erowid Post:

I used with toothpaste with bicarbonate of soda in the ingredients to aid absorption. The tooth paste is actually better than regular baking powder as I discovered later. There is a very noticeable difference in effectiveness when toothpaste containing bicarbonate of soda is used in preference to baking soda alone.

Hmm. Thoughts?

[Benga]

odd...one would think that paste of any kind would rather mechanically hinder the oromuccosal absorption of the alkaloid rich saliva...
the kookabura has never tried, and doesn't have any handy.
better to buy food grade sodium bicarbonate than "baking powder", some brands contain other things.

[electrum_io]

This seems to be the main thread on chewing. The big question, it appears to me, is what kind of basifying agent should be used to help to extract the alkaloids in coca leaves.

Swim is interested in learning more about Llipta (or llicta or llupta), a supplement for use with coca leaves. It is formed by a mixture of lime and/or vegetal ash normally of kiwicha or quinua cereals.

This seems to be the traditional supplement; would it not be the best? They are quite inexpensive and can be ordered at same time as one's leaves.

Another question: swim also heard about "macerated leaves" and is intrigued.

Coca leaves macerated during 2 months in pisco (traditional peruvian spirit obtained from distillation of fresh juices of grapes).

What value, if any, does this form have? Given that the leaves are kept in an acidic medium appears to contradict the use of a basic medium.

Apparently one can order plain coca leaves on-line, although it is pricey to do so.

SWIM would like to try chewing the plain unadulterated leaf with the traditional llipta; will this eventuate in an irritated mouth? Would baking soda be better?

SWIM thanks you for your input.

[Benga]

prices are not allowed and copy and this is quite close to source discussion, be careful.
swiyou should make his own pisco, works much better with red wine.

this llipta is burnt ashes, rock hard charcoal. It can burn the mouth, give it a charcoal color and is not convienient to use, really. same goes for ground leaves over whole leaves.
sodium bicarbonate, baking soda, is really the safest and easiest way to go. it is also used in urban areas in south america, know as "bico".
traditional is not better in this case, trust swim.

[electrum_io]

[quote=Benga;380601]prices are not allowed and copy and this is quite close to source discussion, be careful. swiyou should make his own pisco, works much better with red wine.

Sorry, I did not see my question that way. Do you know anything about a thick, black, soft, tarry substance called lejia dulce? This lejia is made from an alkali (ashes obtained by burning the grain quinoa) which is mixed with cane sugar and anise.

Re: pisco, one would assume then, for hypothetical purposes only, that some sort of ingredient in coca leaves is soluble in alcohol?

Gracias, e!

[electrum_io]

Would Benga's distant cousin know anything about the macerated coca leaves offered by some shops? The leaves are purported to be "macerated" for 2 months in pisco, a traditional spirit made from fresh grape juice. Sounds pretty exotic. But what, SWIM wonders, would be any advantage to steeping the leaves in some such fruit juice? Of course, macerated does not mean "steep" but rather beaten.

[Benga]

lejia dulce in an acquired taste from what swim's heard. there's also one made with dulce di lecce. haven't tried. think it's quite popular in Bolivian towns more than Peru or Colombia.
for the pisco, yes, but don't expect anything like cocaine. coca and alcohol mixes can be quite euphoric, but without the stimulation of cocaine. Historical coca wines like Mariani's almost certainly contained additional cocaine HCl.
posted a recipe for a tonic wine here in the coca section

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14691

there's info on the alkalis used in the wiki coca article

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/nuw....view&bookid=8

[Benga]

none apart from taste. macerating leaves in alcohol would be detrimental to alkaloid content. But the leaves would have a nice pisco taste.
maceration means to let sit a plant in a liquid for a while in order to extract active principles / taste or to preserve the plant material.

b

[electrum_io]

maceration means to let sit a plant in a liquid for a while in order to extract active principles

You are correct! Thank you for filling in a hole in my vocabulary! or, rather a misconception.

[Benga]

Originally Posted by electrum_io

maceration means to let sit a plant in a liquid for a while in order to extract active principles

You are correct! Thank you for filling in a hole in my vocabulary! or, rather a misconception.

more info on the subject in this thread, with detailed explaination of herbalist extraction techniques :
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29439

and some good ideas on simple coca extracts ( not cocaine extraction, the full coca spectrum ) here
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18297

[electrum_io]

Some most interesting links provided, esp. w/ re: to extraction techniques used pre-WW II. Somewhere someone I know ran across a very brief mention of using the over-the-counter antacid "TUMS" as the base for a simple "chewing" technique using plain old leaves. Has any person heard of this? The active "basic" ingredients in TUMS is calcium carbonate. Baking soda is, so I have heard, called bico and has been used by natives in the Andes. It is sodium bicarbonate I believe. So the TUMS idea would be substituting calcium for sodium?

[electrum_io]

OK. Someone who isn't me finally obtained some coca leaves. Nice, dried coca leaves. SWIM wonders now how to go about adding the "bico" (sodium bicarbonate) to the leaves once the leaves are in the mouth. Does one take a "pinch" of bico between thumb and forefinger and carefully insert same into the mouth next to the leaves? or ?

So SWIM wants to know (1) how many leaves for a quid, and (2) how much bico and how to get it into the mouth to work with the leaves.

SWIM's next door neighbor used 20 leaves to start with and maybe some bico about the weight of a couple of aspirin tablets. SWIM's cousin took the same number of leaves, wetted them in water, and then coated them with bico and put same into the mouth. He reports that was very salty tasting.

Thanks, e_i

electrum_io added 890 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

However, my friend in Cochabamba, Jose, says, "Por supuesto, once your mouth and tongue are numb, the taste of the bico isn't much of a worry!".

[Benga]

ohoh, found the following reference in a random post while searching for info, about some "Coca-Chews", which are described as a "natural-green colored ecstacy-shaped soft chewable tablets with a coca leaf stamp and are a combination of 60% ground coca leaf, 20% extracted ground coca paste, 10% powdered lime, and 10% citric acid, theyre effervescing transmucousal coca chews."

never heard of the thing before, and couldn't trace it. does anyone have any info on this ? or is this the fruit of someone's imagination ?
found a weird link to a windsor product caled "hansa" talbets, but that's about it.