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  #1  
Old 20-01-2012, 05:48
Doctor Who Doctor Who is offline
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the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

the Spearhead of Opposition to Doctors who treat Chronic Pain is the DEA. They place severe restrictions upon the medical profession and also on the sale of certain pain medicines thru pharmacy's, which has created a whole army of officials who are limiting prescribing of Opiate Pain Medication!
I think it is High Time to return to the days when it was completly discretionary within the medical profession ( Chronic Pain Doctors, Family doctors, GP's etc. )
to prescribe Opiate drugs to those who suffer Chronic Pain!
Every Person is entitled to assessment as an individual and to be offered the Best treatment in the light of their condition, situation & needs. NO Legislator, No Judge, No District Attorney, No Police Official & NO Narcotics Agent is qualified to make such an assessment! If as the result of such an assessment and continued experience in treating the individual suffering from a medical condition involving Chronic Pain, it should be decided that the best treatment is to continue them on Narcotics... then they are entitled to this treatment! PEACE!

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Old 20-01-2012, 09:23
inazone inazone is offline
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

I totally agree with your post Dr.Who. I was suffering from 3 herniated discs in my neck a lacerated liver and my intestines were ripped also. After spending three months under a medically induced coma in a Kentucky Hospital I was discharged with a bottle of Percocet and told to follow up with my primary care provider. The Pain Management Dr. undertreated my pain, so when I confronted him on this, his response was that he was being audited by the D.E.A. and couldnt help me. I transferred to another Pain Management. Clinic, great Dr. but barely gave me enough pain meds. After a year he was in trouble so I went to another P.M.C. they shutdown before my 2nd visit. Finaly the 2nd P.M.C. Dr. recommened going to a methadone clinic. Well KY., Methadone Clinics didnt allow benzodiazipines which Ive been rx`ed for yrs. and only gave patients 2 to 3 days off max. So I started driving to Indiana which was had good clinics but I had to drive 3 1/2 hrs. one way to get there. I finaly moved and am really hoping one day to go to Pain Magement if I can find one that will actually work with me and then there is always the risk that even if I do they will eventually get shut down by some Government Agency.

Last edited by inazone; 20-01-2012 at 09:28. Reason: typo
  #3  
Old 23-01-2012, 06:01
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

After my sister lost her doctor ( DEA Sting ) she had to quit a great job upgrading computers for one of the top US companies & go on disability! she can't even get out of bed without her pain meds and the pain clinic she ended up at won't give enough to let her function normally, then of course they got raided and all records taken as "evidence" so now she has No medical care at all & with 2 cat scans showing her internal damage gone missing, it will be hard for her to find another doctor! It's not a "War on Drugs", it's a War on Doctors & Sick People!!!
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Old 28-01-2012, 07:03
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

Here is the transcript of a recent U.S. National Public Radio (NPR) program describing recent Florida actions to deal with illicit pain clinics, and how these actions ultimately make it harder for legitimate pain patients to get treatment.

Prescription drugs from pain centers here in Florida cause seven deaths a day from overdoses in the state, and nobody knows how many more across the country. Interstate traffickers, local dealers and addicts take advantage of loose regulations that allow doctors to establish so-called pill mills. Of course, there are many legitimate doctors and legitimate patients as well.


NEAL CONAN, HOST:

Amy Pavuk is a crime and courts reporter for the Orlando Sentinel, and she joins us here at member station WMFE in Orlando. Pleasure to have you with us.

AMY PAVUK: Thank you for having me.

CONAN: Also with us is Tom Parkinson, MORNING EDITION host here at WMFE and a reporter at member station covering this issue. Nice to have you with us, Tom.

TOM PARKINSON, BYLINE: Nice to be here.

CONAN: And, Amy, I have to ask, one of the questions that thought my regulate this was a registry that recorded every prescription and every sale. Thirty-five other states have it. Florida's supposed to take effect last October.

PAVUK: Florida now has a prescription drug monitoring program. That was something that drew sharp criticism from leaders across the country, including from the White House because it is touted as a tool that is one of the most effective in combating the state and the nation's prescription drug epidemic.

CONAN: And how effective has it been in the months since it's taken effect?

PAVUK: It is a little bit too soon to tell. It hasn't been in effect that long, but law enforcement who I've spoken to have started using it. They use it to track what doctors are prescribing and what citizens are receiving in prescription.

CONAN: Meanwhile, there are hundreds of these so-called pill mills that says, you know, pain center, pain medication. The purposes are quite legitimate.

PAVUK: There are. This is one of the things that law enforcement and legislators made clear, which - our state has plenty of legit pain clinics. It is just this small number of so-called pill mills that are causing the problem.

CONAN: And these are individual places run by individual doctors who issue a lot of scripts.

PAVUK: They do. They are accused of just prescribing a plethora of pills without any true legitimate need.

CONAN: And so these end up in the hands of, well, either local dealers or, in fact, sometimes interstate dealers.

PAVUK: They do. There's a term that law enforcement has coined here called the pillbilly. That is referred to as citizens in - from Kentucky, Ohio, you name it, who travel here specifically to get pills. They can get them, and then they return to their home state and fill them.

CONAN: And the markup, as I gather, if you buy an OxyContin pill, for example, from a prescription, it's about $1, maybe $10 then on the street here in Florida, maybe $40 a pill if you're selling that in, just to pick a place, Kentucky.

PAVUK: That's true. And we're hearing that the amount is actually going up now that the supply is dwindling.

CONAN: And, Tom Parkinson, what kind of an effect is all this having on this community?

PARKINSON: It's just been devastating, Neal. It's - as one of Amy's sources actually said recently, if there were seven people a day dying from any other disease, authorities would be all over it. This was allowed to continue for far too long. And that's one of the reasons why it became so severe here in Florida because for at least a decade, there was lax to no regulation on these clinics. No pill mill - or pill monitoring database, so doctor shopping was relatively easy to do. And I wanted to go back to your point about the pill mills.

I recently interviewed Sheriff Jerry Demings, Orange County Sheriff Jerry Demings about this and asked the sheriff, you know, how can you tell? What's - how can you tell the difference between a legitimate pain management clinic and a so-called pill mill? These places, you have to understand, Neal, they were - look like just storefronts. They would be wedged between a laundromat and a pawnshop or something. A patient would basically show up with any kind of vague complaint of back or neck pain or whatever, receive a perfunctory, if any, physical examination and then be written a scrip for hundreds of doses of these highly addictive pills on a cash-only basis. They're open 24 hours a day, till 3:00 a.m. or something, armed guards, sign saying you're not allowed to sell your drugs to other patients.

This doesn't describe the picture of when I go to my physician. It's not like that. There are no armed guards there. So clearly, if you have a line of people outside a building at 3:00 a.m. paying cash, something is not right there.

CONAN: Amy Pavuk, is that accurate? These are places that dispense as well as prescribe?

PAVUK: Well, technically they can't dispense themselves anymore. That was part of the legislation that was recently enacted. But yes, I've been to these pill mills myself. It is not uncommon to see lines of people standing outside. As Tom mentions, armed security. It's just - it's not routine. It's not standard, what people would consider general care.

CONAN: Yet when law enforcement tries to intervene, the person says here's my prescription and here are my pills. It's perfectly legal.

PAVUK: Right. And that's one of the defenses that the patients and the doctors have, particularly the doctors who say, you know, I prescribed this to this patient. I told them to take one pill a day. I did not tell them to take 30 pills at one time, and I certainly didn't tell them to sell them either.

CONAN: And the - and they have a legitimate complaint. This my business and why are you messing with me?

PAVUK: Right. And that's what makes these criminal investigations so difficult, is because law enforcement essentially has to hire or get doctors involved to assess these and look at these and say, OK, if this person came in with a back pain, what would you ordinarily do? Would you do this? Would you do that? Would you send them to a specialty doctor? And they really have to assess this on a case-by-case basis, which makes building these cases so tedious and time consuming.

CONAN: Tom Parkinson, you think a pattern would indicate - well, a pattern - if you're dispensing large numbers of pills to large numbers of people, maybe people should get suspicious.

PARKINSON: Yes. And to their credit, law enforcement is cracking down, and it apparently is having a tremendous impact. They're just getting started on it, but the latest figures I've had is more than 400 clinics have been closed down in the last year. Prosecutors have indicted dozens of pill mill operators. Eighty doctors have lost their licenses. A number of doctors have gone to prison, and we're talking, you know, five, 10, 15-year sentences. So they really are cracking down. It seems to be having an effect. One telling number, I think, is the doctor purchases of oxycodone dropped from 35 million doses in period of 2010 to less than a million, 925,000.

CONAN: Wow.

PARKINSON: So it obviously is having an effect. But there are a number of unintended consequences, Neal, because these are highly addictive medications, and you don't just wake up - if you're addicted to one of these pills, you don't just wake up one morning and say, oh, it's illegal now or my pill mill is closed, I'm going to quit. These people are going elsewhere, and those are some of the unintended consequences that I talked to Jerry Demings, the sheriff, about. They're seeing a huge spike in illegal street drug sales and also a huge spike in armed robberies of pharmacies, drug cargo heists, all kinds of...

CONAN: Ancillary...

PARKINSON: Ancillary, yeah, unintended consequences.

CONAN: We'll get to the calls in just a minute. But, Amy Pavuk, where do these places get their pills from?

PAVUK: Well, it used to be the doctors in Florida could buy their pills directly from the manufacturers, hence why we saw the numbers that we were seeing for years, such as in 2010, 90 of the top 100 oxycodone-dispensing doctors in the nation were from Florida. It's a huge number. It's obviously decreasing now. And so now drug addicts and abusers, when they can get their pills from doctors, or if they don't buy them on the street, they are going to have to turn to pharmacies. But with that said, at least one pharmacy chain is implementing some changes. CVS recently sent a letter to what it deemed high-dispensing doctors, telling them that it was no longer going to fill their prescriptions for pain killers and other scheduled substances.

CONAN: I assume doctors are saying, wait a minute, how do you get to decide which doctor's prescriptions to fill and which you don't?

PAVUK: Exactly. They're calling it discriminatory. One, you know, several people are referring to it as a black list and saying that, you know, look, you're pegging us as criminals when we haven't been arrested. We're not under investigation. But a story that I investigated that ran recently showed that quite a few people on that list actually either have been arrested or under investigation, so there is some correlation between CVS's list and what law enforcement and health department officials are doing.

PARKINSON: That should be pointed out, Neal. These people - we're not talking Dr. Kildare here. People - you uncovered some of the people in your - on that list in your piece, excellent piece that ran on Saturday in the Sentinel. Could you tell us a little, Amy, about who some of these doctors were? I mean, pretty shady characters.

PAVUK: Sure. Sure. I looked at the doctors from Central Florida. There is one doctor who was arrested for not just allegedly - again, he hasn't gone to trial, hasn't been convicted - not just for allegedly running a pill mill, but also hosting wild sex and drug parties at his home. He invited...

PARKINSON: With his patients.

PAVUK: With his patients. You have people who range from him to simply doctors who have a lot of fatal overdoses associated with their patients, and law enforcement looks in and says, why is this person having four and five overdoses of their patient base in a year or two?

CONAN: Let's get a caller in on the conversation. 800-989-8255. Email: talk@npr.org. Sam's with us from Merritt Island here in Florida.

SAM: Yeah, how are you doing?

CONAN: Good, thanks.

SAM: Yeah, I don't know how relevant it is, but I have a sister-in-law who was recently arrested for selling OxyContin, and she would use several people to purchase pills for her, from Miami to Orlando. They would pick doctors from Miami or Orlando that they could get their pills from. And she was arrested, and none of the doctors were prosecuted, as far as I know. But she is back out, and she is doing the same thing again and using the same people. And I was just wondering, you know, if they couldn't possibly put certain people on a list that, I mean these people don't need and shouldn't be prescribed these drugs, you know? I mean, they're using the same mules each time.

CONAN: Amy Pavuk, any prospect of such a list?

PAVUK: Well, two things come to mind: One, what you're referring to about your sister, those are actually what law enforcement in Florida refers to as sponsors. There's a lead person who quote-unquote "sponsors" other people to get drugs for them. That's one thing. The other aspect is this database that Florida now has will track that.

So if your sister has four people going and getting drugs for her, law enforcement and pharmacists can now track who those people are and what they're buying. They don't have free access to that database. Law enforcement has to prove that they're already investigating the person, but that is what Florida's new database, which really has only been unveiled actually just a matter of weeks, if not just a few months - that's what it's intended to do.

CONAN: Sam, we hope your sister gets out of the trap.

SAM: Sorry?

CONAN: Thanks very much for the - we hope your sister gets out of the trap she's in.

SAM: Yeah, my sister-in-law, and I sure hope so too. And I was just upset that they had all the prescriptions with the names on them and none of the other people were sought either.

CONAN: All right. Thanks very much. We're talking about prescription drugs and so-called pill mills here in Florida. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News.

This email from Ashley: I'm pharmacist, newly graduated in May. I currently work for Walgreens, and I have found that I am more of babysitter against pain and stimulant drug abusers than a health care professional. People abuse these drugs at a ridiculous rate and get angry when I tell them the risks they're putting themselves to by taking too many. In regards to prescribers, I see legitimate and potentially illegitimate prescribing practices. However, I can't prove any illegitimacy, so I'm stuck with dispensing hundreds of pain and stimulant meds to one person at a time. It's extremely frustrating. She's writing from Davenport, Iowa. And I assume, Tom, that's the situation a lot of pharmacists here find themselves in.

PARKINSON: Yeah, it seems to be that way. And as Amy and I have both said, law - there are new laws in place, state laws and county and municipal laws, and they seem to be working. They seem to be taking effect, but it's probably going to take a long time to know if that's really going to work. And Neil,, I think it needs to be said, as this caller pointed out, that many of these people, you know, they didn't set out to become junkies. They were injured in a car accident or some other way and some legitimate physician prescribed these drugs to them, and then they became addicted.

And there's many others, it should be said, that have a legitimate need for these medications and use them responsibly, as prescribed and do not abuse them, just as there are many doctors who legitimately prescribe the drugs. But these new laws, including the prescription drug database, are just riddled with loopholes, all kinds of loopholes.

CONAN: Let's see if we can go next to - this is Fred. Fred with us from Ocala, Florida.

FRED: Yeah, I had to laugh when you said about legitimate doctors. My son was in an auto accident and he went and saw a, quote, "legitimate doctor," who due to the pain of the injury gave him prescription for 180 OcyContins. Well, that was about $40,000 out of my bank book ago, and it - we've been fighting(ph) it for three years. He gives him a script for the OcyContins without even a return visit. So - and this was a respected doctor in the community, supposedly.

But my son, I constantly try to get him off. I get him clean. I even put him in jail for nine months. I get him clean. He goes fine for months, falls back off the wagon. It's a horrible, horrible disease, if you want to call it a disease or an addiction. But his sources - when he goes straight and we talk a lot, trying to get him straight - his main sources - and he tells me they're going for 20 to 40 dollars a pill on the street - are the - he tells me a lot of senior citizens are getting prescriptions.

They're supporting themselves off it because people you would never expect to be drug dealers are, you know, 60, 50, 60 years old getting prescriptions because they don't have a good pension, and they're supporting themselves by reselling their pills. Also, a great deal of the pills he was purchasing were coming from guys who were getting them from the VA. You know...

CONAN: Fred.

FRED: ...it's a horrible, horrible thing. Like I say, I fight every day, you know, trying to get my son so he's going to stay alive.

CONAN: Fred, you must be...

FRED: And the doctors are just - oh, the doctors, I - they are the ones who should be thrown in jail. And...

CONAN: Well, Fred...

FRED: ... pass out scrips without any follow up or without any recourse to them, you know?

CONAN: Fred, I know you must be worried sick, and we hope your son deals - well, finds a way out of the addiction. But he raises a good point, and I wanted to read it - raise it again in the context of this email from Christopher in Orlando. My mother was a regular visitor of a local Central Florida pill mill. She overdosed Christmas Eve, 2011. These doctors should be made responsible for their dangerous actions. Well, they're talking about actually charging some doctors, aren't they, Amy?

PAVUK: They are, and law enforcement and prosecutors are doing what they can. Locally, the numbers are skyrocketing of prosecutions, of drug trafficking charges, and they are going after these doctors. It's just a very difficult and slow process.

CONAN: Amy Pavuk of the Orlando Sentinel, thanks very much. Our thanks also to Tom Parkinson of the WMFE here in Orlando. We have to thank Mark Simpson, Mac Dula, Melissa David, Vierka Kleinova and everybody here at WMFE for their hospitality as they hosted us here today. Tomorrow, Jennifer Ludden will host with a conversation about the growing number of multi-generation household. This is TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. I'm Neal Conan.

Talk of the Nation
National Public Radio
January 25, 2012

NPR.org
_________________________________________
talltom added 598 Minutes and 39 Seconds later...

Here is an article saying the concern over use of painkillers is overblown. (This was supposed to be a separate artcle, but it got automerged with the transcript I posted earlier.)

The media is creating a dangerous panic over painkillers. While the use of prescription opioids for cancer and other end-of-life pain is increasingly accepted, if you are going to suffer in agony for years, rather than months, mercy is harder to find. Indeed, it seems a given by the media that because addicts sometimes fake pain to get drugs, doctors should treat allpatients as likely liars—and if a physician is conned by an addict, the doctor has only herself to blame.

But do we really want our doctors to treat us as if we were guilty until proven innocent? Do we really want the routine use of invasive procedures—ranging from nerve conduction tests to repeated scans and surgeries—to “prove” we’re really hurting? And do we actually want physicians to be held responsible for the actions of a patient who dissembles and does not take drugs as prescribed?

The answers to these questions are at the heart of the bizarre way we view synthetic opioid medications and the suffering of the 116 million Americans who have moderate to severe chronic pain, according to Institute of Medicine estimates.

In recent weeks, for example, New York Sen. Charles Schumer, anti-drug abuse advocates and reporters have inveighed against the potential FDA approval of an experimental opioid painkiller called Zohydro—professing to be horrified by the introduction of a new class of “100% pure” hydrocodone "superdrugs" that they have already dubbed "the next OxyContins." And many states are weighing laws like one now in place in Washington state, which limits the doses of opioids that can be used by chronic pain patients.

When people consider the use of these medications in chronic pain, addiction fears are typically the first thing that comes up. Moreover, media coverage rarely includes the perspective of pain patients— or does so only to knock those who advocate for access to opioids as pawns of the pharmaceutical industry.

If the press—often quoting leading public health officials like Dr. Thomas Frieden, the director of the CDC—is to be believed, the US is in the throes of an “epidemic” of prescription painkiller abuse. Frieden even claimed at a recent press conference on opioid-related deaths that doctors are now more responsible than drug dealers for America's addiction problems. "The burden of dangerous drugs is being created more by a few irresponsible doctors than drug pushers on street corners," Friedman said.

However, the opioid issue looks very different when you examine the numbers closely. For one, the rates of Americans addicted to OxyContin, Vicodin, percocet, fentanyl and other products in our synthetic narcotic medicine cabinet are not rising. In fact, they have been steady at 0.8% since 2002, according to the government's own statistics.

Moreover, fewer than 1% of people over 30 (without a prior history of serious drug problems) become an addict while taking opioids; for chronic pain patients who are not screened for a history of previous drug problems, the addiction rate is 3.27%. That means, of course, that more than 96% do not become addicted.

Yet these statistics usually go unmentioned in media accounts because they do not confirm the preferred panic narrative. Also left out is the fact that around 80% of Oxy addicts (a) did not obtain the drug via legitimate prescription for pain and/or (b) had a prior experience of rehab. Their contact with the medical system—if any—was not what caused their addictions.

So, the first thing the public really needs to know about what doctors call “iatrogenic addiction” is that it is extremely rare. If you’ve made it out of your 20s without becoming an addict, the chances that you will get hooked on pain treatment are miniscule—and even young people are not at high risk in most medical settings.

Nonetheless, the media continue to love them some “innocent victims”—and the real story of not-so-blameless drug users who move from heavy drinking, cocaine use and marijuana smoking to prescription drug abuse is just not as compelling. This, sadly, only contributes to the delusion that anyone who is treated for chronic pain with opioids is at risk for drowning in the—gasp!—ubiquitous riptide of addiction.

The panic leads to policies that require pain patients to be urine-tested, to be called in to their doctors’ offices for random “pill counts” and to make frequent visits—all of which is not only humiliating but expensive and time-consuming. There’s little evidence that such policing prevents addiction or does anything else beyond inconveniencing and stigmatizing pain patients.

And indeed, the stigma of addiction is what’s behind the curtain here. Imagine suffering from incurable daily pain so severe that it feels like your legs are being dipped in molten iron or your spine is being scraped out by sharp talons. Even if you did, in a worst-case scenario, join the tiny percentage of patients who develop a new addiction and became obsessed with using opioids, would this really be worse, especially if you had safe and legal access to them?

Most of the physical and psychological horrors of addiction come with loss of control and with being unable to be present for family, work and friends. But pain can produce even greater dysfunction and emotional distance, and its ability to destroy relationships is at least as monstrous. Moreover, maintenance on opioids can typically stabilize people with addictions, without numbing or incapacitating them. So why do we panic?

In the absence of true pharmaceutical innovation (Zohydro and other "superdrugs" are mere purer versions of VIcodin without the acetaminophen ), opioids remain the only medications that can even begin to touch severe pain, though they are far from perfect. But since they rarely lead to addiction—and since addiction (or opioid maintenance treatment) may actually sometimes be the lesser of evils—does it really make sense to restrict and even deny their benefits to pain patients?

When the situation is considered rationally, our outsized fear of addiction has little to do with the reality of chronic pain. Instead, it’s about the way we see addicts: gun-toting robbers of Oxy from pharmacies and other scummy, lying, sociopathic criminals—people we don’t want to be around or become.

Even though most readers know that drugs don’t somehow “make” ordinary people into such demonic figures—and that addicts can also be as kind, compassionate and hard-working as anyone else— the stigma runs deep.

Much of it, I think, comes from the same evasion of responsibility that allows us to blame doctors for addictions. After all, it’s not doctors who tell their patients to inject or snort their oral painkillers, to drink while taking opioids, to take more than prescribed or to lie, cheat and steal to obtain them.

These actions are deliberately taken by drug seekers. Doctors don’t “make” anyone make the ongoing choices that lead to impaired self-control. While trauma histories, psychiatric disorders like depression and/or genetics do make some of us more vulnerable to taking this path, no one can force us to do it. And if we see doctors—or, for that matter, dealers—as having “caused” our addictions, we open ourselves up to be dehumanized and stigmatized.

That is because if we are seen as incapable of making good choices, how can we expect respect for our desires and preferences? If we can’t control ourselves, why shouldn’t we be incarcerated to protect others from our actions? After all, when the public sees us as mindless zombies, their response is not sympathy for our supposed powerlessness but fear and disgust at our imagined violence.

Even the overdose issue is mismanaged due to our hatred of addicts. Overdoses have now overtaken car accidents as a leading cause of accidental death, but it's unclear how much of this increase is due to the actual rise in the use of opioids and how much to medical examiners simply attributing more deaths to these drugs since they are now found in more dead people. What is clear is that most of these deaths occur in the context of drug abuse—95%, according to one study of one of the hardest-hit states. A large number of these deaths could be prevented by providing the antidote to opioid poisoning, naloxone, with prescriptions for the drugs. But because we want the wages of sin to be death, however, drug warriors have largely prevented funding for programs to broadly distribute that lifesaving medication.

The opioid problem is really the stigma of addiction writ large. Consequently, if we want to stop getting in the way of access to painkillers for people who genuinely need them, we need to take responsibility for our own actions and help fight this stigma. No one but you can make yourself into an addict. But chronic pain can happen to anyone.

Maia Szalavitz,
The Fix
January 27, 2012

Maia Szalavitz is a columnist at The Fix. She is also a health reporter at Time magazine online, and co-author, with Bruce Perry, of Born for Love: Why Empathy Is Essential—and Endangered (Morrow, 2010), and author of Help at Any Cost: How the Troubled-Teen Industry Cons Parents and Hurts Kids (Riverhead, 2006).


http://www.alternet.org/story/153910

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Interesting interview, thx for adding the the thread
excellent contribution
Nice work!

Last edited by talltom; 29-01-2012 at 02:15. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #5  
Old 03-02-2012, 06:32
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

One look at the leading causes of death in America should alert any thinking being to the idea that something truly is amiss with our government and the information they are feeding us. Corporations have become so huge that it's virtually impossible for the average citizen to make a difference, but there is always hope. Before you believe the propaganda, at least arm yourself with the truth.

Tobacco 430,700
Alcohol 110,640
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000
Suicide 30,575
Homicide 18,272
All Licit & Illicit Drug-Induced Deaths 16,926
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs 7,600
Marijuana/Entheogens 0
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Old 11-02-2012, 14:08
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

I live in Indiana, and I am a chronic pain patient with the best Doctor in the state. He isn't involved with a "pain clinic". He's a physical medicine consultant(whatever that translates to).

He is very compassionate, and has upped my dosage, and shuffled my scripts according to how well my pain is being managed at any given time.
As all lifer's know; pain fluctuates for many reasons. He keeps me comfortable.

One very disturbing thing that he told me is that I'm required to submit a urinalysis at least once a year? Or at his discretion. He made it clear that this is not his personal policy, but a DEA intrusion into his practice.
He knows I'm a mj user, and his response was;

"I know alot of people use mj for anxiety and to relax,(he was smiling with a knowing smile on his face) but I'm gonna test you again in a few months, and if you test positive again, I will no longer be able to prescribe your med's. This is your friendly reminder."

My state has no medical mj law, and some of the strictest penalties for pot in the land.

I am dumbfounded that I could be left bed ridden with my life destroyed over a drug so harmless.

To me this is a crisis, mj is the most helpful drug I use, it synergises flawlessly with my other med's making them work with less side effects, and for a longer duration. I take less opioids, less benzo's, and have an over all better life.

The government doesn't have any business getting between me and my doctor.

Everyone needs to hobble, roll, limp, crawl, or walk to the polls this fall and vote for Ron Paul...he has the answers, and the real life compassion that we daily sufferers need. PEACE

Thanks for the topic, OP
TooDarkPark

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  #7  
Old 11-02-2012, 22:40
Doctor Who Doctor Who is offline
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

My Sis's Doc ( before losing license in sting operation) would ask patient's to be honest about other drug use ( when forced drug testing began ) & would sometimes prescribe Marinol if they smoked! Unfortunately too few doc's are that understanding!!! Maybe your's will at least give you a month's notice so you can clear-out your system, too many of those being tested are using the synthetic stuff, It's nowhere near as safe as the natural plant and not as effective for many illnesses ( neither is marinol, but is is about the only legal drug testing positive for thc ). PEACE!

Last edited by Doctor Who; 11-02-2012 at 22:48. Reason: typo's
  #8  
Old 12-02-2012, 08:05
war209 war209 is offline
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

When did the US government started to pass these laws ? Is it the media hype that there are Americans that are getting addicted to pain killers and some even getting high of pain killers that is casusing this media sensation.

I thought the pharmacal companies like the tobacco companies where so big and powerful that they had so much control .It seems like the government is starting to turn on them now.
  #9  
Old 12-02-2012, 21:47
Doctor Who Doctor Who is offline
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

It seems to be the DEA & Medical Boards who are after anyone who dares to treat Chronic Pain! It got so bad in my state, they passed a special law a few years ago to protect Doctors. Still... they are going after them Worse than ever, I set up program for my computer to monitor how many lose license's & 3 more got put out of business this week. the Chronic Pain Network was shut down by DEA over court case in Washington last month ( Purdue Pharma had helped finance the network ). This is just another part of the War-On-drugs. Many pharmacies will-not carry Oxycontin, Soma now a controlled substance! Codeine cough syurp can-not be bought OTC with signature here anymore! Cold Pills will be prescription only soon. Seems to be No End in Sight!

PEACE!

Last edited by Doctor Who; 12-02-2012 at 21:48. Reason: typo's
  #10  
Old 17-02-2012, 10:33
war209 war209 is offline
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Who View Post
It seems to be the DEA & Medical Boards who are after anyone who dares to treat Chronic Pain! It got so bad in my state, they passed a special law a few years ago to protect Doctors. Still... they are going after them Worse than ever, I set up program for my computer to monitor how many lose license's & 3 more got put out of business this week. the Chronic Pain Network was shut down by DEA over court case in Washington last month ( Purdue Pharma had helped finance the network ). This is just another part of the War-On-drugs. Many pharmacies will-not carry Oxycontin, Soma now a controlled substance! Codeine cough syurp can-not be bought OTC with signature here anymore! Cold Pills will be prescription only soon. Seems to be No End in Sight!

PEACE!
So you are saying the DEA & Medical Boards are more powerful and have more control than the pharmacal companies ??

They give more money or lobbying to the government than the pharmacal companies ?

Who is part of the DEA & Medical Boards now ? A much of hardcore christians or Nixon buddies ?? Or is this media pressure that people are getting hooked on pain killers and some even getting high of pain killers that getting the DEA & Medical Boards all worked up even the government?
  #11  
Old 17-02-2012, 12:02
Mindless Mindless is offline
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

That is an relevant question: who or what has the most influence? Public pressure groups such as christian organisations (although not all christians are advocates of prohibition), politicians and lobbyists, the media, the government, law enforcement agencies, the medical establishment, or public opinion?

The pharmaceutical companies do have a lot of clout, and are highly influential in medical practice. They have managed an increase in demand for many of their products that make drug cartels look like hapless amateurs. They are not completely free to sell whatever products they wish however. The prevalent model since Nixon, and possibly before then, has been one of war on drugs. Pharmaceutical companies are not the only influence on medical practice. The biggest factors here seem to me to be the mindset of legislators, their perception of public opinion, and the manipulation of the same by the media.

I don't think Doctor Who is saying that the DEA and Medical Boards have the most influence, he is just pointing out their active role in this terrible situation.
  #12  
Old 27-02-2012, 18:52
war209 war209 is offline
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindless View Post
That is an relevant question: who or what has the most influence? Public pressure groups such as christian organisations (although not all christians are advocates of prohibition), politicians and lobbyists, the media, the government, law enforcement agencies, the medical establishment, or public opinion?

The pharmaceutical companies do have a lot of clout, and are highly influential in medical practice. They have managed an increase in demand for many of their products that make drug cartels look like hapless amateurs. They are not completely free to sell whatever products they wish however. The prevalent model since Nixon, and possibly before then, has been one of war on drugs. Pharmaceutical companies are not the only influence on medical practice. The biggest factors here seem to me to be the mindset of legislators, their perception of public opinion, and the manipulation of the same by the media.

I don't think Doctor Who is saying that the DEA and Medical Boards have the most influence, he is just pointing out their active role in this terrible situation.
So by looking at this war now on pain killers do you think it is the DEA and Medical Boards that causing this or the media that saying people are getting hooked on pain killers and abusing them to get high.
  #13  
Old 28-02-2012, 12:17
wishing2go wishing2go is offline
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

I hear you fellow pain sufferers.

My doc wrote me my 2nd oxyxodone RX this year last week. 1st one for 60 tabs I filled 4/2011.

I don't think that qualifies as misuse? I save for when I really need them but saw the doc last week because ive been taking 360/ 200mg ibuprofen pills every 5 weeks.
I was afraid of liver damage and asked for blood tests for my liver and kidneys and she said "I'll give you a new rx for some pain medicine since it's been 10 months. I said thank you, I only have about 2-3 left.

Then got home and realized she forgot to hand me the RX. So I called the next morning and explained what happened. The nurse said she had to speak to my doc and would call back.
Later that day the nurse called and said the doc was sorry and was leaving the rx at the front desk for me to pick up which I did around 4:00 pm that day.

Took the rx to Target while I still had a ride and they said "give us 20 minutes to fill this".

15 min later I was called to the pharmacy and was told they called the doctor to verify the script (I suppose like all controlled meds) and was told "the doctor said she must see you back to give you this rx".


I was just there?? I called the doc while at the pharmacy desk and said "why do I need to pay for another visit when the doc forgot to hand me the rx"? They were rude and said "she needs to see you, take the prescription back and bring it with you". It now has big red sharpie marker written on the rx DO NOT FILL?
and says per the doc who wrote it, now why would that possibly happen??

Now the pharmacist said "maybe it interacts with another pain med your on", I said what pain med would that be, the Advil I buy at Costco in "stock up size packages"?

I'm not on any other medication besides estrogen, and 1mg clonazepam at night for tremors for a 30 day trial period because I don't want to take that every day. Its prescribeby the same doc, I only have one doc and am on Medicaid.

My question is would this be a way for doc to get more state Medicaid $$ by making me come back or is this one of those "pharmacist allowed decisions" because of these SEA diversion programs??

I think it's scary that any doctor,pharmacy, or government agency can allow me to OD on ibuprofen (not intentionally ) but will deny me the right to have a few pain free days now and then.

Where can I learn more about who has the power to do what and if my name is on a list somewhere? If so, how do I appeal to remove it?

I'm not an addict or even drug dependent, if I'm being monitored, I want to know and know why!
  #14  
Old 25-03-2012, 10:43
inazone inazone is offline
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

The Drug Enforcement Agency is behind the laws that deal with Prescription Drugs and they are a Big and Powerful Organization with a World Wide Reach. Pharmaceutical Companies are not immune from Lawsuits or Government Prosecution either, look back at mess Purdue Pharma got into over Oxycontyn. 1st they took the white 120 or 180 mg pill off the market, then they were charged with aggressive marketing tactics followed by Media Headlines calling the legitimate Pain-Med "Hillbilly-Heroin." That opened the door to Prescription Monitoring Programs and aggressive Federal Prosecutions of many Physicians who were trying to legitimately treat Chronic Pain. Florida did have a unique situation with so-called "Pill-Mills" but I believe that has been eliminated. What is left for Chronic Pain Patients ? A community of Physicians wary of prescribing Opiate Pain Medications. Today it is not uncommon to walk into a Pain Management Clinic and see a sign which reads "We do not write Prescriptions for Opiate Medications." The real catch-22 is a Chronic Pain Sufferer usually knows what works, so if their Clinic or Dr. has received a warning or has been shut down how do they go to another Dr. and not come off as a "Drug-Seeker" My Problem was from being under-prescribed. I was in a situation where I could not deal with my Pain Level and suicide was an everyday thought. Forget about the "normal friends" I once had because they could not understand what I was experiencing. My new friends were now disabled or in Chronic Pain like me. I eventually found that for enough money someone would be willing to suffer through a week without all their pain pills. They were never all that easy for me to find, it was more like a full time job keeping up with my supply. I went through my life saving, almost everything. I eventually found by seeking out the less expensive opiates I could get by on somewhere between $500 to $800 a week. Every so often I`d catch a break but I was covering a three state area selling agricultural equipment and supplies, going 24/7 with 3 damaged disc`s in my neck and mid ways down a previously broken back. No Prior Surgeries meant small scripts so by this time Id given up trying. I was taking my 40 mgs. of methadone a day plus another 160mgs. just to get through the day. Some weeks it might be a daily dose of 350mgs.of Morphine or Duragesic Patches or even combinations of whatever was at hand. To keep from O.D.ing I had learned opiate conversion charts to figure out how many milligrams of X = Y with Fentynal it was trickier with those micrograms released at time released rate.
The sad fact is this, if I had been given say 80 milligrams of Methadone daily or its equivalent from a Doctor and 2 or 3mgs. of Klonopin with a muscle relaxer every once in awhile, I could have lived a normal life. Thank God I was able to walk and make the money that I needed otherwise I would have took my own life back then. On the other hand there are people who like to experiment with opiates, curiosity is part of human nature, and that doesnt bother me. However when somebodies loved one gets addicted or O.D.s that is when the problems begin and a tug of war between people who suffer with Chronic Pain and those who suffer from the pain of "Mental Anguish" or everyday life gets played out. Since we live in a society where no one really wants to take the blame for their behavior anymore, we stop blaming people and start blaming the things people get in trouble with. When the way a person drinks their whiskey is no longer that persons fault we blame the liquor and make the sweeping generalization that no one can handle the responsibility of hard drink. This is far from true but it is a lie we all buy into ... until the day comes when you want a drink or with Opiates until the day your body gets busted up and your still alive enough to feel the pain, especially when that pain matches the beating of your heart and keeps you from having the ability to think of any other thought but how to make it stop.

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Old 27-03-2012, 03:53
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

Quote:
The Drug Enforcement Agency is behind the laws that deal with Prescription Drugs and they are a Big and Powerful Organization with a World Wide Reach.
The DEA is government Agency that works for the government .
Quote:
Pharmaceutical Companies are not immune from Lawsuits or Government Prosecution either,
You would think with all the Pharmaceutical Companies giving money to the Government and many of them working in government this would not be problem.


Quote:
look back at mess Purdue Pharma got into over Oxycontyn. 1st they took the white 120 or 180 mg pill off the market, then they were charged with aggressive marketing tactics followed by Media Headlines calling the legitimate Pain-Med "Hillbilly-Heroin."
Can you elaborate on this



Quote:
That opened the door to Prescription Monitoring Programs and aggressive Federal Prosecutions of many Physicians who were trying to legitimately treat Chronic Pain.
What did ? What lead to Prescription Monitoring Programs and aggressive Federal Prosecutions ?


Quote:
Florida did have a unique situation with so-called "Pill-Mills" but I believe that has been eliminated. What is left for Chronic Pain Patients ? A community of Physicians wary of prescribing Opiate Pain Medications. Today it is not uncommon to walk into a Pain Management Clinic and see a sign which reads "We do not write Prescriptions for Opiate Medications." The real catch-22 is a Chronic Pain Sufferer usually knows what works, so if their Clinic or Dr. has received a warning or has been shut down how do they go to another Dr. and not come off as a "Drug-Seeker"
I think this is a new problem in past 2 or 3 years do to the media saying there is pain med problem in the US where people are getting hooked on it or using it to get high.


Quote:
My Problem was from being under-prescribed. I was in a situation where I could not deal with my Pain Level and suicide was an everyday thought. Forget about the "normal friends" I once had because they could not understand what I was experiencing.
I think there is too much sigma now with pain killers .

Quote:
My new friends were now disabled or in Chronic Pain like me. I eventually found that for enough money someone would be willing to suffer through a week without all their pain pills. They were never all that easy for me to find, it was more like a full time job keeping up with my supply. I went through my life saving, almost everything. I eventually found by seeking out the less expensive opiates I could get by on somewhere between $500 to $800 a week. Every so often I`d catch a break but I was covering a three state area selling agricultural equipment and supplies, going 24/7 with 3 damaged disc`s in my neck and mid ways down a previously broken back.
Thant is why most people will turn to street drugs if this is the case.

Quote:
No Prior Surgeries meant small scripts so by this time Id given up trying. I was taking my 40 mgs. of methadone a day plus another 160mgs. just to get through the day. Some weeks it might be a daily dose of 350mgs.of Morphine or Duragesic Patches or even combinations of whatever was at hand. To keep from O.D.ing I had learned opiate conversion charts to figure out how many milligrams of X = Y with Fentynal it was trickier with those micrograms released at time released rate.

You mean if you had no prior surgeries the doctor will give you smaller prescription of fear people may be trying to get high?

Why did you have to take two drugs not one? Did the doctor wanted you to take two drugs not one?


Quote:
The sad fact is this, if I had been given say 80 milligrams of Methadone daily or its equivalent from a Doctor and 2 or 3mgs. of Klonopin with a muscle relaxer every once in awhile, I could have lived a normal life. Thank God I was able to walk and make the money that I needed otherwise I would have took my own life back then.

On the other hand there are people who like to experiment with opiates, curiosity is part of human nature, and that doesnt bother me. However when somebodies loved one gets addicted or O.D.s that is when the problems begin and a tug of war between people who suffer with Chronic Pain and those who suffer from the pain of "Mental Anguish" or everyday life gets played out. Since we live in a society where no one really wants to take the blame for their behavior anymore, we stop blaming people and start blaming the things people get in trouble with.
Quote:
When the way a person drinks their whiskey is no longer that persons fault we blame the liquor and make the sweeping generalization that no one can handle the responsibility of hard drink. This is far from true but it is a lie we all buy into ... until the day comes when you want a drink or with Opiates until the day your body gets busted up and your still alive enough to feel the pain, especially when that pain matches the beating of your heart and keeps you from having the ability to think of any other thought but how to make it stop.
Do to the FDR that give the government powers it can run or control things !!

Before that people did not want the government to have power to run or control things .Now that the government has power to run or control things they think they are you mom or dad and you are kids and need big government to step in to make the US addict free society and to clean out human vice be it sex ,porn ,drugs ,smoking and drinking .

The problem is with the FDR that gives the government that pwoer.
  #16  
Old 27-03-2012, 04:21
beentheredonethatagain beentheredonethatagain is offline
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Who View Post
After my sister lost her doctor ( DEA Sting ) she had to quit a great job upgrading computers for one of the top US companies & go on disability! she can't even get out of bed without her pain meds and the pain clinic she ended up at won't give enough to let her function normally, then of course they got raided and all records taken as "evidence" so now she has No medical care at all & with 2 cat scans showing her internal damage gone missing, it will be hard for her to find another doctor! It's not a "War on Drugs", it's a War on Doctors & Sick People!!!
I truly feel for your sister, I recommed calling or writing and making a formal complaint with the AMA american medical assoiaction (time for bed cant spell nothing) and they have to make certain that her new physician provides the proper treatments for her condition. its the law, just because there are those doctors that write scripts to anyone for money , I forget what you call them, that doesnt give anyone the authority to bypass the law.

stand up for your rights and be heard. their are things that can be done.. trust me I have beenthere with pain managment doctors, a family doctor may not write for morphine sulfate or oxycodone, but they sure have to write a script for hydrocodone. and then they have to give you a refferal to a pain managment doc if the hydrocodone is not enough.
  #17  
Old 24-07-2012, 11:40
war209 war209 is offline
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Re: the Crisis in Chronic Pain Treatment!

beentheredonethatagain I don't have time to go into big post now so I will do it in 2 or 3 days when I get some time.

But what has happan in the US the US has always been very conservative and drug use hard or soft , porn ,sex , drinking or partying does not sit well with most people in the US .The US from 60's to now is becoming more conservative on drugs .

And in past 10 years the US has become even more conservative on tobacco use and alcohol use.In the past 5 years or more the US has become very and I mean very conservative on pain killers and other pain meds do the media and government.

Again most people in the US drug use hard or soft , porn ,sex , drinking or partying does not sit well with them at all. And the government , schools ,media and church even more.

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