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Downers and sleeping pills Anxiety Meds, Sleeping Pills and Skeletal Muscle Relaxants

 
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  #1  
Old 18-01-2012, 05:32
AZ8990 AZ8990 is offline
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Baclofen usage for sleep problems

Perhaps some of you have seen my other threads. Long story short: long time insomniac, using mirtazapine for years and years, was using SH*TTY Mylan mirtazapine for about a year and experiencing minimal relief from insomnia. Recently discovered and got my old Teva brand mirtazapine and have gotten a good deal of relief from insomnia. I am also on 0.5 mg clonazepam per day taken along with mirtazapine before bed.

Problem is I still wake up exactly 4.5 hours after I fall asleep and take 0.5-1 mg lorazepam to fall back asleep. Or else I go through strange alternations of sleep with half-awake, half-dreaming states for the next 2-4 hours and wake up feeling like shit. I hope to at least get a better second half of sleep if not eliminate my other medications by using baclofen (lioresal). I would like to get rid of mirtazapine even if for no other reason than being unable to stop eating.

I have been reading about baclofen and its ability to increase delta-sleep and stop nighttime awakenings. Apparently in the right dose it is the closest legal thing to GHB due to its interactions with GABAb receptors. It was even somewhat successfully used to treat narcolepsy (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19520267). I talked to my psychiatrist today and even brought in multiple articles showing its effects on sleep. He absolutely refuses to prescribe it on any condition. Since I cannot get the drug, a friend of mine on the same medications with the same problem would obtain the drug from a reliable foreign pharmacy and experiment on himself.

I've read the articles on this site about baclofen and realize that: 1) It can be dangerous in combination with other CNS depressants like mirtazapine and clonazepam, 2) Benzos and Baclofen work differently and withrawal from one might not be relieved by the other and 3) In certain doses (not sure if too much or not enough) it causes insomnia and perhaps some euphoria like GHB at lower doses. I have relayed this to my friend. He will eliminate mirtazapine and lorazepam while experimenting, at least at first.

Here is my specific question to the board: what dose is best for inducing sleep? Does anyone here have any experience using it, especially using it once or twice a night rather than continual dosing? My friend would really like to know, since his plan is to start at 20mg once per night.

AZ8990 added 2 Minutes and 23 Seconds later...

This study is useful as well: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6721446

Last edited by AZ8990; 18-01-2012 at 05:32. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #2  
Old 19-01-2012, 22:51
Shleep On A Goat's Nipple Shleep On A Goat's Nipple is offline
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Re: Baclofen usage for sleep problems

Baclofen As A Sleep Aid
the primary goal is to achieve 8-hours sleep (subjet to personal preferecence)

Daytime : Should anxiolytic relief be needed during the day, before sleep, then a 5mg dose in tablet form should be given 3 times daily of baclofen : in the morning, noon and evening.
Total : Baclofen, 15mg
To avoid : ibuprofen, strong opioids, TCAs, alcohol
The patient should be monitorred with particular regard to heart rate, respiratory levels, muscle co-ordination. If all seems fruitless, abandon the baclofen try-outs. If the patient is well, then proceed to next phase -
Night-timeClonazepam 0.5mg , on a empty stomach. Some strong feelings of sedation can be expeted to be present, and deep sleep should be attainable in very little time.

Night extension: If daytime anxiety relief is not necessary, then it is quite unnecessary to divide out 5mg doses of baclofen morning to night. Therefore, an anxiety-free patient may simply take 15mg baclofen at night with 0.5mg clonazepam. Be prepared for utterly diminished motor control.

Is the mitrazapine helping with your depression or is most helpful to you as a sleep-aid? If mitrazapine is helping your mood then keep it. but if your depression is mild or bassically triggered by insomnia, then the mitrazapine could theoretically be eschewed in favour of clonazepam and hydroxyzine, both effective sleep-inducing anxiolytis .

One problem this would make is the discontinuation syndrome from the mitrazapine, which can be very strange and unpleasant. However, the baclofen greatly soothes this unfortunate syndrome as does pregabalin, an interesting anxiolytic.
For you, starting at 20mg's a fine idea. In my personal escapades I don't rank it very high on the lists of good sleep-aids; flurazepam is my choice o' the bunch. Give the baclofen at 20mg a try, sure, but in the meantime let me know what you think about my ideas above, mainly, getting your system of mitrazapine.
Good luck, pal, from Shleep x

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  #3  
Old 21-01-2012, 16:47
AZ8990 AZ8990 is offline
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Re: Baclofen usage for sleep problems

Wow. Awesome post. Mirtazapine has made my depression much worse due to intense weight gain and mental fog. I take it for sleep only. I ordered phenibut instead. It differs from baclofen only by one Chlorine atom, which I understand makes a big difference for dosing. How much Phenibut should I take to achieve the same results as baclofen?

AZ8990 added 0 Minutes and 55 Seconds later...

I tried to give a high rating for your last post but I messed up.

Last edited by AZ8990; 21-01-2012 at 16:47. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #4  
Old 24-01-2012, 20:46
Shleep On A Goat's Nipple Shleep On A Goat's Nipple is offline
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Re: Baclofen usage for sleep problems

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, pal. I have no experience with phenibut, it seems very interesting but isn't manufactured in Ireland. I'm sure other swimmers could help you out, sorry that I can't.

As I said the baclofen certainly can help with sleep but isn't desperately effective. Have you had any experience with Z-drugs like zolpidem or zolpiclone (Ambien etc.)? As I understand it in the US they make Ambien CR, which releases 2 doses of zolpidem about four hours apart or so. This would certainly help with your problem of falling asleep but waking up prematurely. Taking lorazepam to get back to sleep will definitely lead to dependence issues (possibly already has?) In my opinion lorazepam's too short-acting to be a good sleep-aid, while clonazepam on its own isn't really sedating enough - both are used largely for anxiety, not sleep - while zolpidem's the opposite. An empty stomach is pretty essential for good insomnia relief with zolpidem.

I've had awful insomnia for years, was on sertraline (an SSRI) as mirtazapine, stopped them, and have tried almost every prescribed and illegal sleep aid. What I do nowadays is have the mildly-addictive zolpidem to knock me out when necessary, smoke weed and often try to simply "fix" a bad sleeping trend by staying up all night, then all the next day, going to sleep around 10pm and waking up a 8am. I take codeine once a week for bad depression and smoke weed for anxiety and sleep. That's how I cope, and everyone's differrent .. Have you been trying baclofen since your first post? Any luck?
Hope you're doing ok, from Shleepie x

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ambien, baclofen, baclofen combinations, clonazepam, clonazepam combinations, clonazepam dose, hydroxyzine, lorazepam, lorazepam effects, mirtazapine, mirtazapine combinations, mirtazipine, mylan, narcolepsy, phenibut, stop smoking

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