Syrian Rue, first time

[Djvr16]

Ok so SWIM bought 4oz of Syrian Rue seeds. He has done LSD, Ketamine, Salvia, and DXM. He has read about Rue and is still confused on the proper dosage with rue alone. SWIM wants to stay safe, but enjoy a trip. Some places say 3g and other places say 10g to start. He would extract the seeds and drink the liquid and smoke weed after feeling the MAOI. SWIM thanks you )

[Nagognog2]

One critter I knew did 7gm of Syrian Rue seeds. He ground them up as best he could and swallowed them. He reported his amazement at being able to projectile vomit clear across his living-room and watching his expectorated fluids be filtered through the screen door leading to his porch. He then spent the rest of his night curled up in his bathroom next to the toilet - having mild visons of large snakes. Though he wasn't sure if this was from the rue or from his feeling sick as a dog and having snakes annoying him seemed about right for how he was feeling.

[sands of time]

If your looking for a good recreational drug, this is the wrong stuff. While it has some psychoactive effect, it's very limited and is not worth the taste or the nausea. If your going to take it, make sure you know the foods that should not be eaten during that day. Several sites list this, and the list includes many meats and cheeses. Google MAOI food interactions.

This stuff is mostly used to potentiate magic mushrooms, or to activate oral doses of DMT. It is very rarely used by itself, but it seems to be slightly psychoactive. At best, one might achieve the ability to see tracers and very limited CEVs. One can sometimes sense mild visual changes, but nothing comparable to other, more notible substances.

A dose of 7 grams might be good to start with, boiled into a tea. This is an incredibly foul tasting concoction, and the effects are not worth this agony. Expect to vomit, but laying down can prevent this. The seeds could be eaten if ground, but even that is death like in taste. Washing it down with water might be the best way to do this. The effects seem to be less noticable if consumed this way, and less so when eaten uncrushed. Some sources report syrian rue seeds are slightly toxic, but I don't know how reliable the information is.

Most people do not repeat use of this stuff, and it's not hard to see why.

[Nagognog2]

The toxicity of Syrian Rue, and extracts thereof, is generally attributed to their containing harmol and harmalol - as well as harmine and harmaline. Harmol and harmalol are phenols that are found to cause progressive paralysis of the CNS in large doses, so caution is advised.

As Sands points out, these molecules have a limited effect as a psychedelic at best. So this is not something where, even if you could without becoming deathly sick to your stomach, taking more would give a person a pleasant trip. That and the phenols should be enough information to know better than to indulge in large quantities of this.

As an aside: A friend of Bongo's did his organic chemistry final at his university by extracting the harmine and harmaline from P. Harmala and crystallizing them into there hydrochlorides. As Bongo recalls he simply extracted using iso-propanol. Then ammonia and hydrogen chloride gas. Very simple. He then brought his science experiment over to Bongo's house and ate his homework assignment himself. His nickname was "The Dog." He spent the night sitting in the forest trying to talk with the resident Raccoons. He got an A.

[Djvr16]

I'm sure this person would fast to be more safe ) Are there permanant effects of this? Would you recommend not taking them at all? Would marijuana be enhanced with these? Are the trip reports in erowid false? Of just rue seeds? Thank you for the help )

[sands of time]

Originally Posted by Djvr16

Are there permanant effects of this?

I have never read anything suggesting the potential for long term or permenant problems. If enough of the stuff is taken to achieve toxic levels, I'm sure all sorts of problems could result, but a respectable dose has not be reported to cause problems.

Originally Posted by Djvr16

Would you recommend not taking them at all?

I could care less one way or the other. At best, you could learn a bit more about the realm of psychoactive substances, perhaps gain a deeper understanding. At worst, you could reduce yourself to a puking wreck for a few hours and have a bad evening. If I were to guess, I would lean more to the latter of the two... The choice is completely up to you, swim does not regret his few experiences with the garbage, but swim would not repeat it.

Originally Posted by Djvr16

Would marijuana be enhanced with these?

Perhaps... While MAOIs don't enhance the effects of THC by themselves, it seems reasonable to assume that the pseudo-psychedelic effects of syrian rue could be enhanced by marijuana. Both can alter visual perception to an extent, causing things to appear different. Though these changes are very small with the two substances alone, it seems likely that they could have a synergenic effect.

I know you asked about marijuana being enhanced by syrian rue, but I explained it kinda backwards. The syrian rue will not enhance the marijuana in the way that syrian rue enhances mushrooms or DMT. Syrian rue will not alter the breakdown of THC.

Originally Posted by Djvr16

Are the trip reports in erowid false? Of just rue seeds?

Take everything you read with a grain of salt. Everything you read should be questioned respectfully. Having said that, I have no reason to think that any one specifically is false, but I have not read syrian rue seed experiences is awhile.

I will now direct your attention to one specific report, notice the authors name...

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=29552

Yep... Thats yours truely, 3 years ago. Pretty young, but swim sure has matured in those long 3 years. Swim looks back and finds it a bit comical that this stuff seemed so amazing, because it's anything but that. The experience was vastly enhanced by closing the eyes and listening to music. Swim placed his Johnny Cash tracks on repeat and had a very relaxing night. That was the first time swim ever saw tracers, so swim was a bit overwhelmed with wonder. All in all, it's not a great substance at all, but it was swims first experience with psychedelics.

If your gonna pursue this, have a nice, relaxing setting. Close your eyes and drift for the first hour or so to avoid nausea. The body load is quite noticable, but going verticle can help alot. If your really relaxed, you may expereince a nice body buzz, but nothing to write home about.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Answered all of my questions

[Djvr16]

Thank you very much for that information....SWIM will take precautions and update )

[freemynd]

SWIM was told that 3g of syrian rue crushed and eaten...followed by 150mg of DMT ingested orally will produce amazing results? can anyone confirm?

[genaro]

3g is enough to achieve MAO inhibition

3g, as a tea, gave some nausea, my friend even vomited twice during the first hour and a half...then we both experimented some very nice relaxation and contentment so we stayed in the forest for the all afternoon, starring at the trees. No visuals or psychedelic state of mind but some very enjoyable peacefulness and tranquility, a nice journey in nature.
Another friend said that 3g taken as a tea 1h before eating shrooms is very enjoyable as the shrooms effect was affected in a very positive way, it felt more warm, more peaceful, more relaxed and more colorful. Good combo.

Therefore I think 3 to 5g of seeds is a good starting dose, but one should expect nausea and possibly vomiting (use it on empty stomach ! that means 4 hours at least after last meal)

I think next time I would probably make a crude extraction (finely powdered seeds soaked in drinkable alcohol for 3 days, shake often, solution filtered and evaporated to get a sticky gum).

Now seeds are said to be hallucinogenic from 10 to 30g (30g beeing the heavy maximum dose, probably extremely uncomfortable trip with lots of vomiting, better not attempt such a heavy dose!)
So I think that someday I might wanna try 10-20g (after one full day of fasting) just to find out how hallucinogenic this can be (but I'm pretty sure the trip will be very unpleasant, with bad nausea, bad vomiting and bad loss of motor coordination for quite some time)

[Marsofold]

SWIM would be extremely hesitant to recommend such high doses as anywhere near an ounce of Rue seeds. A typical dose, depending on body weight, is 3grams to 7grams, with most people content with 3.5grams. SWIM certainly agrees that an extraction is much preferred over consuming the seeds merely ground. And it really isn't that difficult to isolate the harmine/harmaline to crystals, which would minimize any nausea. The crystals may also be smoked with DMT to extend the trip beyond the usual 5 minute duration, a very desirable advantage...

[freemynd]

Originally Posted by Marsofold

And it really isn't that difficult to isolate the harmine/harmaline to crystals, which would minimize any nausea.

Is it possible ingest harmaline (about 150mg) and then ingest some D (maybe 50-150mg)? SWIM has heard something about this...

[Beeker]

SWIM likes to keep things simple. Grind up Rue to powder. put in 00gelcaps and take 3.5 grams total but one pill every 10 minutes to keep nausia from being a problem. Alone SWIM notices a carrier wave and a shimmering on surfaces but nothing else. SWIM added the DMT brewed days before to the mix and.. well, you know the rest..

[freemynd]

Originally Posted by Raedon

SWIM likes to keep things simple. Grind up Rue to powder. put in 00gelcaps and take 3.5 grams total but one pill every 10 minutes to keep nausia from being a problem. Alone SWIM notices a carrier wave and a shimmering on surfaces but nothing else. SWIM added the DMT brewed days before to the mix and.. well, you know the rest..

How much D did you take? Was it powdered form also in gel caps? How long did you wait after taking the rue?

[QGdoxl]

A foaf recently was given some rue seeds and was wondering what would be a good dose for potentiating mushies and 4aco-det both of which he has a large tollerance for the mushies where 7g+ is needed to start seeing objects breath. THe 4aco-det was tested at 10mg and 15mg with no resluts.
pls help

[Nagognog2]

Bongo advises that Peganum Harmala be crushed into a powder (sticky) and then extracted with iso-propyl alcohol: Just mix and shake every day for a week or so. Then pour it through a coffee filter. Pour into a glass pan and allow to evaporate. Then place under a strong lightbulb to drive off residual iso-propyl with some mixing to help this. Voila! Harmala-Sludge. 200mg of this mixed-alkaloidial goo (harmaline, harmine, harmol, harmalol - harmala alkaloids are mutually potentiating) can then be placed into a capsule and swallowed - on an absolutely empty stomach. Given 30 minutes, it will then act to potentiate a 1/2 dosage of dialkyl tryptamines. No more than 1/2. This is not a horse-race. Follow protocol for MAOI's with your monkey. Start monkey low before advancing to a higher level. Bongo saw one monkey who turned into a dog on a version of pharmahuasca - chasing people and barking. He had complete amnesia of this event.

This will greatly lessen the nausea that the straight seeds almost always cause. The goo is quite stable and will keep for a long time.

It is odd that 10 - 15mg of this 4-acet-n,n-diethyltryptamine had no effect on your chimp. Tolerance? Not an empty stomach? Other medications on board?

[QGdoxl]

tollerance is known more about mushrooms where the monkey needs 7+g to achieve "breathing" objects and some giddieness. I was hopeing the monkey would respond better to the 4-ace-det because it is not the same thing but close.

The reason I mentioned the rue seeds for my monkey is I was "told" that the monkey could eat 1-3 seeds to assist in research (not to mention there were some seeds donated to the research dept). Not 1-3g just 1-3 seeds. I hear other ppl talking about multi gram doses that is why I asked, thinking 1-3 seeds may have done the trick. Besides my ethno source doesn't carry Peganum Harmala, is there any other suggestion for the maoi (that is what we are looking for right?)


thoughts?

[Nagognog2]

Passionflower contains a low dose of harmaline/harmine. Extracts of this are commonly available in natural food-type stores in the US. It's sold as a mild sedative for insomnia and relaxation.