Bringing guests along on the path of poisons

[Potter]

A friend of nobodyrecently came across a large supply of DMT and has been trying to share it with a number of friends.

Got into debate over the sharing of such powerful substances. Nobody has given a few people experiences with Our Divine Lady of the Sage, and the results well they weren't so good. Terror, paralyzation, violent impulses, falling, fear of geometries (so bad the subject could not glance toward the offending corner for even a moment, this would drive him from our chapel for good). Afterward, most of them were rather angry at nobody for letting them do this. Mind you nobody often (after the first time) did their best to dissuade them from the stuff, they insist on getting to try it anyways. Nobody is patient, but when a fool wants to be foolish, and nothing else, might as well indulge his foolish ideas in a safe and controlled setting. Nobody no longer offer it to any but the most experienced psychonauts, those who are fluent in the language and techniques of mind altering chemistry.

Despite a desire to break other people's realities, nobody no longer feels that chemistry is the proper path. While the chemicals, especially the strong ones, can permanently alter a person's world view, without the discipline to ride them out, there is a lack of insight, there is a lack of any sort of expanded outcome. The person fears the change, shuns it and retreats deeper into their own reality tunnel, or maybe they just add another layer of bricks.

On the other hand, (the person with whom this conversation occured with), he has a list of people he wants to ride the dragon. A number of these people have no idea what DMT is, how it works, its effects... not a clue as to what they are in for. True no amount of preperation can really make a new experiance 'comfortable' or easier to get through, but breakthrough experiances are nothing to be tempted blindly. These aren't nubies, but they aren't psychonauts, shrooms and low quality LSD are mere candles to the raging inferno of DMT or Our Divine Lady of the Sage. Nobody worries what sort of long term psychological damage can be inflicted. Same as one doesn't get shot into space without years of training and education, doing so to the brain or soul seems just as dangerous. But then again, nobody wonders if (said person), takes these possible consequences to his own body/soul into account with his own explorations.

The path of the Poisoner is one fraught with dangers, excitements and many distractions. Those that fall from grace have far to plunge, the casualties are appalling and nobody sees no reason to tempt the fates. Only the truly gifted can remain on the path and keep their sanity, or maybe only the truly insane can walk the path to reach the gifts it beholds. The path, like any True Path, is designed to mold and shape you, so that when you finally do break (as that is the intention all along) you do it in a way that is manageable. As the old Mad Arab once wrote, "Do not merely scan these pages, for you will end up a babbling fool; read every word and footnote, examine every picture, so you will, at least be understood by the other babbling fools."

Nobody will walk this path as long as it goes, as long as nobody remains aloft. Looking forward to encountering other upon the path, and will do my best to keep pace, but nobody has traveled far already, and feels it is folly to carry others over the ground that has passed. For without the ordeals, one is unable to face what may lie ahead.

It would be dreadful to get the the land of the dead, knowing all the passwords, yet being unable to courtesly address those who ask for such proofs

[Pinkavvy]

make sure you explain the traditional uses of the substance, and why it is/was used. Explain it's not a recreational experience.

[Alfa]

Joints can be passed to friends not knowing what it is. Some trow XTC in one others mouth, with the comment eat this, it's fun. SWIM can understand this and sees little harm in it. (when one knows the quality ofcourse)
But as said DMT is a whole other league. Not recreation. Imensely powerfull. Only for those prepared and that have a notion of what's coming.
SWIM once attended a pretty large psychedelics conference where the spice was flowing royally. The event was held in a spacious bungalo parc somewhere in central america. One unprepared attendee decided to try this new(for him) goodie. At that time SWIM was located at the other end of the parc. A looong way from him. SWIM has never heard such a scream. It was inhuman. A scream of pure terror. The experience could not be described by the attendee and had deep impact. It clearly potrayed to SWIM that DMT is not to be messed with. It is only for those who come with the utmost respect and care.

Those that have this deep respect for DMT have the tendency to overly state the positive effects of it. SWIM would rather confront those new to it with the tuff aspects and then see wether they are still interested.

[Mr Man]

[QUOTE=Alfa] Some trow XTC in one others mouth, with the comment eat this, it's fun. SWIM can understand this and sees little harm in it. (when one knows the quality ofcourse)
QUOTE]

Unfortunately SWIM did just this and it turned out to be one of his worst drug experiences. As SWIM found out some people can react rather heavily to doses that others, including himself, would consider fairly small. SWIM gave an XTC tablet to his friend who had had enough alchohol to start wanting to broaden his chemical imbibing/injesting/inhaling experiences, note his friend wasnt drunk by any measure probably at the same state of mind that SWIM was when he had his first pill. SWIM thought that his friend would heartily enjoy his next coming hours and thank SWIM immensely after the fact, this proved not to be entirely correct.

SWIM has never had much experience with mdma acting as a hallucinogen but this was and is basically the effect witnessed on this occasion and has been witnessed on subsequent occasions with his friend and another. What SWIM witnessed was the usual build up of an xtc pill on his friend, the fluttery feeling in the stomach building into uncontrollable rushes of exhilaration. This continued until it seemed his friend was as 'high' or 'peaking' as much as he had seen in others at their 'highest'. However it seemed SWIM friend was continuing to go up until he was basically losing grip with reality, ie seeing things, others, not knowing who he was speaking with or where he was, carrying on conversations with people not there, dreaming but physically acting out situations connected to his current life. Basically he was off the planet, a state SWIM thought could only be achieved by chomping on 5 or so of these pills at a time when the tolerance of the person taking these '5' pills would be fairly low.

This came off just one xtc tablet. It turns out SWIM friend only has to have a third to half a pill to be totally gone, while SWIM will injest 8 times this amount and not be close to attaining or has ever been close (even on his first try) to attaining the level that his friend gets to.

So after this SWIM has severly curbed introducing others to drugs unless he is in a fairly safe environment, and always starts at fairly minimal doses.


On a side note, could others explain the reasons or possible reasons as to why xtc had this effect on SWIM friend. This situation described above has happened (to a lesser extent as lower dosage amounts used) on a number of occasions to this friend and only one other that SWIM has encountered. The xtc used or unknown substances in the 'pill' are not a contributing factor as a number of differerent 'pills' have been used and the same effect experienced.

Thanks

[Nature Boy]

The thing about salvia and DMT is that the effects are instant and very much "in your face" in regards to visualisations. No other drugs that I know of have such an instant or profound impact (can't relate personally to DMT as SWIM has never tried it but having read many trip reports it sounds very much like the salvia experience, intensity-wise). Some, if not most people can't handle that. A friend of SWIM's was petrified when he first tried what was a massive hit of salvia and vows never to do it again. SWIM himself smoked a smaller bowl first time and although it was quite amazing, it didn't pack the same shock value as it did for others. Truth is, ignorant, unprepared or under-educated people in general are unable to use psychedelic drugs without panicking. This goes for non-recreational psychedelics like Sally and Dmitri even moreso. Many use them thinking the effects might be a little like alcohol or marijuana and are absolutely stunned when the effects hit them. Some people lose it completely. Examples include that guy who virtually single-handedly banned mushrooms in Ireland by falling to his death less than an hour after consumption and a story SWIM recently heard about some scumbag moron who ate shrooms on the open street, didn't like the effects, wanted it to end and randomly decided to start smashing car windscreens.

Stupid people can't be trusted. That's the #1 reason why governments keep psychedelic drugs illegal.

[Mr Man]

Ok so I couldnt work out how to quote!

[geezaman]

SWIM spent literally months on the Internet researching salvia before he decided it was safe enough and somewhere SWIM wanted to go, (at this point SWIM had only occasionally experienced weed and done nothing else except occasionally get drunk.) So SWIM prepared himself and experienced salvia and had his ass blown out of the water by the experience, It was good and interesting but broke a good number of boundaries SWIM previously conceived to exist.
After this experience SWIM mentioned it to a few of his friends at a suitable time and they all showed great interest, so SWIM wrote some CDs of the info he had found and referred them to a number of websites to research the drug them selfs. All but one of them read through the info on the CDs and did their own research, and all but one of them had eyeopening but manageable trips, the one who Tripped badly later admitted he had read nothing about salvia in his life but just assumed if it was OK for us it was OK for him. Admittedly the extent of the research mentioned was due to the first tentative steps into drug taking and now for new drugs is less extensive but with little or no understanding of what to expect something like salvia and from what i have read DMT is more intense is going to hurt SWIY.
ISHO introducing others to drugs is not a problem as long as they are aware of what it could do to them, are aware they don't have to do it, and SWIY can live with what happens to them because of the experience SWIY enables them to have.
SWIMs friend who tripped badly on salvia proceeded to get his own and smoke it on a daily basis for a month, then moved onto less legal drugs in the same way and has now been kicked out of his home and is in counciling. If SWIM had made sure his friend was prepared somehow or had not introduced him he most likely would not be where he is today.