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  #1  
Old 14-09-2011, 16:49
MrAsia MrAsia is offline
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why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

Alot of people SWIM talks to and even users say that meth and ice are the same thing when its not. SWIM is no expert but SWIM is pretty sure that ice and meth are different. SWIM doesn't know what its like around parts of the world but SWIM is from Australia and where SWIM lives meth is this wet crystal looking stuff with a very strong chemical odor and ice is odorless transparent glass shards.

From SWIM's personal experiences meth is weak and SWIM gets no rush from it, but with ice SWIM gets a very fat intense rush and blurry vision.
  #2  
Old 14-09-2011, 21:32
OrgoSynth OrgoSynth is offline
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

Was always told to SWIM that ice is what one uses when meth is not available. That is to say that supposedly ice is a less powerful high/rush/good feeling, but with longer duration. SWIM isn't the most experienced in terms of use, but he says that meth has been better than the ice.

The chemist part of SWIM points out that ice is actually 4-methylaminorex while methamphetamine is actually chemically something else. Similar effects. SWIM has seen both, but can't distinguish them based on appearance alone *most* of the time. Looks like a crystal you can kind of see through and maybe a little powder form.
  #3  
Old 14-09-2011, 22:36
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

"Ice" or 4-mar (4-methyaminorex) and "Meth" (methamphetamine) are definitely not the same thing! Ice is considerably stronger in both effects and duration.

Most of the time, the confusion between the two comes down to simple ignorance. Meth is also known as Crystal-Crystal looks like Ice-thus, Meth = Ice.

Also, there is the element of salesmanship. If you market your product as something that looks the same as a stronger substance, people will feel the need to try it. After all, everyone wants more bang for their buck!
  #4  
Old 15-09-2011, 00:00
Addie Daddy Addie Daddy is offline
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

At least in swims area, "ice" applies to any kind of meth. Around here there is no naming distinction between kinds of meth (and never mentioned is if it is 4-methylaminorex). The names and terms have blended. Theres "good shit" "bad shit" and "OK shit". Sometimes I get powdery crystals, sometimes I get clear shards. Always called meth and/or ice colloquially.

Addie Daddy added 1 Minutes and 6 Seconds later...

But in swims area (post pseudo bans) any kind of meth is nice to see that isn't cut to shit Mexican crap.

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i agree, meth and ice are synonyms in most of the US, its always good to find clean dope

Last edited by Addie Daddy; 15-09-2011 at 00:00. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #5  
Old 17-09-2011, 12:29
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Addie Daddy View Post
At least in swims area, "ice" applies to any kind of meth. Around here there is no naming distinction between kinds of meth (and never mentioned is if it is 4-methylaminorex). The names and terms have blended. Theres "good shit" "bad shit" and "OK shit". Sometimes I get powdery crystals, sometimes I get clear shards. Always called meth and/or ice colloquially.

Addie Daddy added 1 Minutes and 6 Seconds later...

But in swims area (post pseudo bans) any kind of meth is nice to see that isn't cut to shit Mexican crap.
This is the exact case, in SWIMs 'hood. She can guess that its similar to people referring to things differently than others, based on "how they are brought up" in other words, you are a product of your environment. ???
  #6  
Old 10-10-2011, 03:37
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

Meth is called Ya-Ice (or simply 'ice' - Ya means medicine...) in Thailand. Getting your hands on some cold pills is peanuts.

So people say that Meth and Ice are the same 1) they think it is 2) Easy marketing 3) It actually is.

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Please don't be so insulting. There are many smart Americans. Do not stereotype the individual, it is the system which causes mass ignorance

Last edited by Skäggbiff; 28-08-2012 at 19:33. Reason: Bad attitude
  #7  
Old 10-10-2011, 04:01
salgoud salgoud is offline
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

To be precise, we need to add some chemistry to the picture.

Ice was first referred to 4-methylaminorex. However, ice is not just meth, it is a specific isomer of meth. To be exact, it is the dextro isomer of methamphetamine. Methamphetamine has three forms, the levo form, the racemic form, and the dextro form. The racemic form is difficult to crystallize and usually comes in a powder form. However the levo form (Vick Inhalers) and the dextro form (Ice) crytallizes into shards. If you ever let the meth evaporate in a spoon, you will notice that racemic meth looks like small circles, with spokes radiating from the center to the circle. Dextro meth crystals are not round, they radiate to the right and look like a fan, fanning to the right. The levo crystals fan to the left. Because of this, meth made from l-ephedrine or pseudoephedrine (both the same) produces the dextro isomer of methamphetamine and the crystalline form either looks like grains of clear salt or shards, due to the fanning of the crystals.

Because the isomers are not mixed in a 50/50 ratio and is completely dextro, the crystals are a clear rocks or shards resembling ICE. So people started calling it Ice. However, 4-methylaminorex has the distinct honor of being the first chemical to be called Ice. It also depends on how one adds the HCl to his/her oil. If it is gassed, it will form crystals resembling ice. If it is dried when scraped up with a widget, or similar device it will be in the shard form, clear and glistening. Some just add dilute HCl until it's neutral. Every different way forms a different type of final product. The best being rocks, that are clear or shards because of their haphazard shape. Another name for 4-methylaminorex is U4Euh. Euphoria. Yes, Vicks Inhalers still have l-metamfetamine in them. In the beginning, the ingredients read l-desoxyephedrine. Don't do them, the high sucks ass. It's very physical and grimy, no mental alertness. IMO

salgoud

Last edited by salgoud; 10-10-2011 at 04:16.
  #8  
Old 01-02-2012, 09:10
emsdadbr emsdadbr is offline
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

My neighbor has been paying close attention to the bottom of his glass pipe...The ice he had over the weekend came back with straight spokes possibly fanning to the right....But todays has been circles...Very intersting...We will see what its like till its gone
  #9  
Old 01-02-2012, 16:10
salgoud salgoud is offline
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

Yes, the crystals fanning to the right is d-methamphetamine and the round dried crystals that are round and radiate spokes from the center is dl-methamphetamine. It is interesting isn't it. However, the former is Ice. The isomer d-methamphetamine has taken the name of Ice over. 4-methylaminorex is hardly ever seen these days.

salgoud
  #10  
Old 02-02-2012, 04:57
alaskan alaskan is offline
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

Swim's usually heard powder and shards called meth, called the low quality powder shit crank and the shards ice or crystal
only seen crank once up here tho lol more shards goin around
  #11  
Old 02-02-2012, 16:40
salgoud salgoud is offline
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

That's not surprising, since the precursor chemicals used today create d-meth (ice, shards). Hardly anyone produces dl-meth (crank) these days. I'm sure in Alaska they would only want to import the best, even though I feel the dl form balances out the experience.

To know what one has is very easy. Just put a couple of drops of water on the powder or shards and place it in a spoon to dry. Round, overlapping crystals with striations coming from the middle is dl-meth, and crystals fanning to the right is d-meth. I don't think anyone is really messing with Vicks Inhalers, which contains l-meth. I have to admit, however, I use Vicks Inhalers as directed to keep my nose nicely open and breathable. They really dilate the nose well. Just a note: if one takes the cotton out of the plastic delivery system, and the police find it on one, a person would be charged with "Possession of a Scheduled II Controlled Substance" even though they are available OTC.

salgoud
  #12  
Old 03-02-2012, 05:03
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

In our area there is meth and ice but they are different. I am not a chemist just seen it. meth is the breakdown of the pills and cooked called "R & B" Ice is made in a cooler or fish tank with no pills no cooking but is buried for 30 days and becomes a fungus and comes out as crystal shards. From doing some research regarding Ice they sometimes call it easter bunny dope aka ice or string dope. Supposely created in Hawaii to be used as a cut for meth but found out you could get a simular high from it. Ice is suppose to have more rush and less leg.

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please don't spread rumor misinformation
Absolutely nonsensical & thoroughly untrue. Please do some actual research before posting such information as fact!
  #13  
Old 03-02-2012, 05:31
ImWithTheDJ ImWithTheDJ is offline
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

ice is the most popular form of meth.
  #14  
Old 03-02-2012, 06:05
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

When my cat used to do it...he'd heard people call it meth, ice, crank, tina, the bitch. maybe those names used to represent different quality, but lately the names got mixed up. In my area, the gay community calls it "tina" or "the bitch". The preppy college students call it "ice" cuz according to them 'ice' is the clear looking glass, higher quality meth. My cat referred it with whatever name suits whomever he was hanging out with at that time.
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Old 03-02-2012, 23:35
salgoud salgoud is offline
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

Quote:
Originally Posted by sasha1023 View Post
In our area there is meth and ice but they are different. I am not a chemist just seen it. meth is the breakdown of the pills and cooked called "R & B" Ice is made in a cooler or fish tank with no pills no cooking but is buried for 30 days and becomes a fungus and comes out as crystal shards. From doing some research regarding Ice they sometimes call it easter bunny dope aka ice or string dope. Supposely created in Hawaii to be used as a cut for meth but found out you could get a simular high from it. Ice is suppose to have more rush and less leg.
This is one I never heard of. I also though they just dried the neutralize solution in a microwave. I have never heard that meth become a fungus and comes out crystal shards. Ice is d-meth or a form of aminorex. Currently, d-meth is called Ice. Crystals can be formed in various ways. Whether it is in shards or crystals, the way to find out if one has Ice, is to let a small solution dry in a spoon, if the crystalline form left over after it dries looks like a fan fanning to the right, it is d-meth (or possibly some other chemical that acts the same way in this fanning type pattern - perhaps Benzylamine.)

Where did you hear this from, friends, a periodical, a book or on the internet. I would like to review this. Yes crystals can be formed on strings in a supersaturated solution of d-meth.

Burying it might not let it dry and keep too much humidity in the aquarium. Super labs can't wait 30 days to get their product out. It is a daily regimen that must be kept up because of the demand in the U.S. You might be thinking of the cut benzylamine, that is cut with d-meth and is a slight stimulant in itself. I am a Chemist, and I never heard of meth turned into a fungus then one harvest shards. I just want people to get solid information, not hear say.

salgoud

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Thoughtful and kind response explaining the facts and chemistry behind meth & ice without dismissing the quoted posters points.
very informative and great response!

Last edited by salgoud; 04-02-2012 at 22:19.
  #16  
Old 04-02-2012, 18:36
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

Like I said I am not a chemist. Brother Llama made this stuff from a recipe from an old head. Look on internet for Hawaii Ice. Also look at Gideons Guide however I think this forum is closed but still there a bit confusing tho. Also zone 68 web site. This stuff has no ephedrine in it. They use, well guess I can say but have ingredients and they are legal to buy. The trick is to find and tweak the recipe. Also search string dope and aka Easter bunny dope. In our neck of the woods, and I hate to say it, but we seem to be the state with a very high usage and creation. Since the pills are hard to get, this is the next thing. But it is true in Hawaii they did make this stuff for cut until they figured out you got a buzz off it. Much easier to make and less expensive. More easily to hide. It is a fungus growing on the strings. Which has to be cleaned with acetone. But once the living fungus hits air it is not living that's why short shelf life. They are dipping gun bluing on the strings that's why you you have to clean it. Also muriatic acid, activated charcoal and industrial strength ammonia or ammonia nitrate (I believe) You cannot do blue ice. It has to be crystal clear shards. Now there are several ways to make it but what I understand you can do the strings or bury a cooler with empty dark brown beer bottles in it and the shards will also grow up the beer bottles and you don't need the strings. It must be completely sealed no air can get in. And really no sense in digging it up but after 27 to 30 days. It has a shelf life first 3 days after hitting oxygen is great but after 14 days and sometimes can last to 30 but not likely. it is still good but not as potent. And when I say potent I mean it does not have that heavy intense speedy feeling. It comes out as crystal shards as clear as can be and the clearer the better, no cut. I think why I like it is because it is not so hard on your body. Good rush easy comedown. Where meth has so many stimulants in it, it stays in your body longer and makes it to me more tense. However you would think it would be cheaper but it cost the same. Everyone getting on band wagon. I imagine the cooks bury a batch a week to keep up with demand. The more I find out the more I find people here prefer it. The rush is much better and can last longer. It is not a myth. It is real. I tried the other and it really does have a better rush but much better or mellower come down. Maybe with this info as a chemist you can figure it out.. Definitely not trying to steer anyone wrong. But it would be quite hard for people to figure the recipe out, unless you are a chemist.

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stop posting this misinformation.
  #17  
Old 04-02-2012, 20:17
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

Here's a thread on 'string dope' for you Salgoud. I'm not sure if all members will have access, it's in the methamphetamine forum but concerns drug production.

I found this on Urban Dictionary, probably not the most robust source but it's all I can find for now:

"a flash dope from of methamphetamine that requires little skill to cook. String Dope is generally cooked using activated charcoal, gun bluing, and sudsless ammonia in an airtight cooler, where the methamphetamines will grow on unwaxed strings like stalactites over a period of 14-31 days. String Dope generally has a half-life of 5-7 days after being exposed to UV light. "

I doubt this is a living fungus, but would cheerfully admit to being wrong if someone knows better. A fungus is a living organism that requires oxygen, although in some cases very little. I'm not sure that sealed containers would contain sufficient oxygen.
  #18  
Old 04-02-2012, 20:44
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

Quote:
Originally Posted by salgoud View Post
To be precise, we need to add some chemistry to the picture.

Ice was first referred to 4-methylaminorex. However, ice is not just meth, it is a specific isomer of meth. To be exact, it is the dextro isomer of methamphetamine. Methamphetamine has three forms, the levo form, the racemic form, and the dextro form. The racemic form is difficult to crystallize and usually comes in a powder form. However the levo form (Vick Inhalers) and the dextro form (Ice) crytallizes into shards. If you ever let the meth evaporate in a spoon, you will notice that racemic meth looks like small circles, with spokes radiating from the center to the circle. Dextro meth crystals are not round, they radiate to the right and look like a fan, fanning to the right. The levo crystals fan to the left. Because of this, meth made from l-ephedrine or pseudoephedrine (both the same) produces the dextro isomer of methamphetamine and the crystalline form either looks like grains of clear salt or shards, due to the fanning of the crystals.

Because the isomers are not mixed in a 50/50 ratio and is completely dextro, the crystals are a clear rocks or shards resembling ICE. So people started calling it Ice. However, 4-methylaminorex has the distinct honor of being the first chemical to be called Ice. It also depends on how one adds the HCl to his/her oil. If it is gassed, it will form crystals resembling ice. If it is dried when scraped up with a widget, or similar device it will be in the shard form, clear and glistening. Some just add dilute HCl until it's neutral. Every different way forms a different type of final product. The best being rocks, that are clear or shards because of their haphazard shape. Another name for 4-methylaminorex is U4Euh. Euphoria. Yes, Vicks Inhalers still have l-metamfetamine in them. In the beginning, the ingredients read l-desoxyephedrine. Don't do them, the high sucks ass. It's very physical and grimy, no mental alertness. IMO

salgoud
Now, my chemistry isn't up to the level that it used to be back in the day when I was still actively "in the game", but I have to disagree here. There may be similarities in the manufacturing process, but the precursors are different, with meth being ephedrine or pseudoephedrine, and 4-methylaminorex being based on PPA, if I'm not mistaken.


In no way do I see how you can consider this as D-Meth! I was involved for quite a time in the manufacture of meth in both d- and racemic, and even with the conversion of l- to d- on the odd occasion, and I have never heard any of my contemporaries or peers refer to 4-mar as d-meth. This is not self incrimination, by the way, as I have already done prison time for my "errors in thinking" (as the judge so quaintly put it), so don't go crazy on me y'all!

I would truly like to hear your take on this matter, as I am somewhat familiar with your background (from reading your posts) and I believe your chemistry knowledge to be sound, but I feel you may have made an error here. Please enlighten me!

P.S. bit of history-4-mar came from Southeast Asia by way of Hawaii and percolated there for a time before it crossed over to the mainland. It is still a huge problem there as well. I do not mean to imply that 4-mar was created there, but that is where it was commercialized and introduced to the western world.

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as always, a great response, informative and polite
  #19  
Old 04-02-2012, 20:55
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindless
I doubt this is a living fungus, but would cheerfully admit to being wrong if someone knows better. A fungus is a living organism that requires oxygen, although in some cases very little. I'm not sure that sealed containers would contain sufficient oxygen.
Methamphetamine is not a fungus, nor are there naturally occurring fungi that will synthesize it (though in theory such a fungus could be created in the lab). What is described is a very slow crystallization process and doesn't mean anything is living.

However it's also worth noting that the general consensus is that the method described in the thread you link to that involves black oxide is complete bullshit. Reminds me of the equally dubious 'fish tank' method.
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Old 04-02-2012, 21:01
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

This thread makes My head hurt. So much misinformation out there. I thought we were done with threads like this years ago?
  #21  
Old 04-02-2012, 22:38
salgoud salgoud is offline
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

Take some aspirin, it might help. Also, we are trying to clear up the misinformation. Ice or glass is a slang given to d-meth. In the past "glass" was used more frequently that "ice" for d-methamphetamine. Desoxyn is d-methamphetamine and is still prescribed today for narcolepsy and other physical problems. Only the 5mg tablet is available these days, the other ones have been taken off the market.

The whole purpose of this thread is a slang name called "Ice". Aminorex and 4-methylaminorex were the first two chemicals to be called Ice. Also a name they called it was U4EUH. My cat says it is synthesized by PPA (phenylpropanolamine, Dexatrim in the mid to late 80's). The prescription drug most closely related to 4-methylaminorex is Pemoline.

Thus 4-methylaminorex was called Ice before Ice was even a national problem.

Then people made dl-meth out of dl-ephedrine, so the cat says. This is not Ice. It is dl-meth, but cannot be made into shards because of the 50/50 ratio of levo-meth and dextro-meth.

Asia never screwed around with 4-methylaminorex much, however in the eastern half of the U.S. they did. And they called it Ice.

Now, the cat say d-meth can be made with l-ephedrine of pseudoephedrine, which is the same thing by various synthesis all of us know about or can easily find out. But knowing how and practical application creates the dividing line.

Only d-methamphetamine is call Ice, because only it will form shards, dl-meth will not.

d-methamphetamine is the strongest mind fuck with speed that there is. It is called Ice in Hawaii, in New York and in Colorado. We just call it crystal, speed or glass. But if these shards are present it is called "Ice" or "Glass" by some.

salgoud out, I have never been approached with 4-methylaminorex. The name Ice has given way to dextro-methamphetamine. dl-meth is not called Ice it is called Crank or just plain speed. Both are called that. I really do not know why this is so hard to understand. Really this is basic chemistry and anyone knowing anything about isomers should know this. Otherwise, get a chemistry book and get edjumacated.

salgoud

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another great infromative response

Last edited by salgoud; 05-02-2012 at 17:15. Reason: Adding some information
  #22  
Old 04-02-2012, 22:56
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

"Ice" is slang. It can mean whatever you want it to mean, which is why slang terms are tremendously unhelpful and also why the forum rules here actually state to avoid the use of such terms. It doesn't really matter which drug was called ice first because there is no such thing as "right" or "wrong".

If we're getting technical with nomenclature then "ice" is neither methamphetamine nor 4-methylaminorex.. it's water.
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:29
salgoud salgoud is offline
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

True, Ice is slang, X is slang, Acid is slang, Pot is slang, Scag is slang, Smack is slang, Horse is slang, Molly's are slang, Z's are slang, Temmies are slang, etc., etc.

ICE can also stand for Immigration Control Enforcement or In Case of Emergency. So I understand your point, but on this thread we are talking about what a slang, i.e., "Ice" refers to as a "drug".

Just because someone want's to know what Ice mainly refers to, and it does (At least in the U.S.) refer to a certain drug, does not mean the topic is neither boring or should not be answered.

Slang's are created so others, who are not invited to the party (so to speak) do not know what you are talking about, such as on the phone (could be tapped), who knows.

However, Ice has used up it's effectiveness in covering up what it really refers to: d-meth. Go fast, is another slang I can think of. Another, yellow drop - referring to meth made from 1-phenyl-2-propanone.

If one is in the scene, or has been in the scene - slang's are important to avoid the radar. Once the radar has discovered one, a long term in prison term can be in one's horizon.

People will continue using slang's till the end of the World. It goes with the territory.

"Honey, can you put some "ice" in my water as well". Or one might say "So, son, your eyes are dilated and you are talking a mile a minute, I think you've been smoking "ice"."

Google "Ice", it all refers to d-meth, except maybe in some areas of the U.S. Are slang's important, you bet your ass they are, it is like an underground code for drug users, so the straight population doesn't know what one is referring to. When the FBI or DEA intercept drug calls, it is harder to prosecute if one used slang's, not the word: "methamphetamine" or "4-methylaminorex". Ice is rarely used where I live, however in Hawaii it is used very much, and in Hawaii it refers to d-meth. Shards, Ice, Go fast, speed, M, crystal, yellow drop, peanut butter, all refer to speed. And shards and ice, mainly refers to d-meth, because they way it can be manipulated into different crystalline structures.

I understand why the forum rules states abbreviations should be avoided, for example "Molly's", I have no idea what that means. But I just read the rules, and says nothing about using slang's, just abbreviations, like P2P, MDA, TMA, PSE, PA, E, etc. I understand why this is so, because abbreviations can refer to something completely different to one person than to another. I believe "slang's" should be added in the rules not to be used, however it does not state "To define what an abbreviation or slang refers to is not allowed." This site is about education, harm reduction, drug creation, chemistry, research chemicals, drug use, drug abuse and much more useful information. To define what a "slang" refers to can save a persons life. To just use a slang in a thread should not be allowed. "I noticed this thread has been moved."

This thread is titled: "Why do people say that Ice and Meth are the same", well I believe the OP has his/her answer now. There is nothing wrong with asking a question such as this and what the wet crystal looking stuff is, I have no idea. But good d-methamphetamine processed by a good cat will not be wet crystals with a strong chemical odor (stay away from this at all costs).

Mindless: That recipe has been in the "Anarchist Cookbook" for decades. I've never known anyone who ever tried or was successful in following the instructions. The "Anarchist Cookbook" can be hazardous to ones health.

salgoud

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Excellemnt rhetorical analysis that answers the initial question.

Last edited by salgoud; 05-02-2012 at 16:13.
  #24  
Old 05-02-2012, 07:54
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

swims friends and everyone else hes met has called meth crystal ,ice,tina etc.. ..and ive never heard the other but dont mean its not around .
but slang in swims area is usually that they call crystals and or crunched bit: Crystal ,The usually refer to ice as the good shit with the best formed crystals and usually the block thats left if u remove the crystals is sometimes cut with tile razors to make like cubes of ice.

it seems that in reality it is two substances,but soon itll be dif with reseach chems like "sparkle " as their nicknames mimick real stuff even though u only should use as slow release fertilizer anodor bath salt with others .
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Old 05-02-2012, 15:13
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Re: why do people say that meth and ice are the same??

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post
Now, my chemistry isn't up to the level that it used to be back in the day when I was still actively "in the game", but I have to disagree here. There may be similarities in the manufacturing process, but the precursors are different, with meth being ephedrine or pseudoephedrine, and 4-methylaminorex being based on PPA, if I'm not mistaken.


In no way do I see how you can consider this as D-Meth! I was involved for quite a time in the manufacture of meth in both d- and racemic, and even with the conversion of l- to d- on the odd occasion, and I have never heard any of my contemporaries or peers refer to 4-mar as d-meth. This is not self incrimination, by the way, as I have already done prison time for my "errors in thinking" (as the judge so quaintly put it), so don't go crazy on me y'all!

I would truly like to hear your take on this matter, as I am somewhat familiar with your background (from reading your posts) and I believe your chemistry knowledge to be sound, but I feel you may have made an error here. Please enlighten me!

P.S. bit of history-4-mar came from Southeast Asia by way of Hawaii and percolated there for a time before it crossed over to the mainland. It is still a huge problem there as well. I do not mean to imply that 4-mar was created there, but that is where it was commercialized and introduced to the western world.
You want me to enlighten you, well here goes:(Note: I refer to d-meth as "Ice" not 4-methylaminorex, you refer to 4-MAR as "Ice", this is perhaps where our misunderstanding rests.)

I would like to see your reference about 4-methylaminorex coming from Southeast Asia and I'm not sure what you mean when you say that I am saying 4-mar is d-meth. I never said that. Please don't misquote me, Toxin, you are correct in some aspects, but off base in others. I am very aware how both are synthesized and this is neither the platform or time to discuss that. The confusion here is the slang name: "Ice". Look up d-methamphetamine anywhere on the web, and they will 9 times out of 10 be talking about "Ice = d-meth". Sure in 1987 4-MAR was called ice, but in 1987 I didn't know anyone who smoked their speed either. What is the main drug epidemic that the DEA is trying to get under control: smokable, shootable, snortable, pluggable d-methamphetamine. You don't hear about 4-methylaminorex labs being busted, you hear about "speed" labs being busted. 4-methylaminorex just never took off. If you think when people in Hawaii are talking about "Ice" as being 4-MAR, you are mistaken, they are talking about d-methamphetamine. (Note: 4-MAR = 4-methylaminorex).

4-MAR is an Eastern American product, that never made it to the West. At least the cat has never come across it. It was mainly made and used on the eastern States, especially in Florida and north from there. I do not contest that it has been made in Southeast Asia also, however, in Asia, like America, they have a very bad meth problem, not a 4-MAR epidemic.

The timeline for 4-methylaminorex can be found in the Erowid Vault:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/4_me...x_timeline.php

It was discovered in the U.S., made in the U.S. and faded into history when phenylpropanolamine was made a watched chemical and Dexatrim taken off the shelves containing PPA. Also with Cyanogen Bromide being such a toxic and deadly chemical, only educated chemists synthesized this stuff. If not manufactured correctly, it can kill a person from the cyanide. 4-methylaminorex has many cis, trans stereoisomers, where methamphetamine has only three: the levo, dextro and racemic isomers. Just by letting meth dry, you can tell by the residue left whether it is levo, dextro or racemic. (This is a Chemistry Forum isn't it?) So it is easy to tell what one has. Plus the smell before smoked and the smell after smoked is very distinguishable. Also one can tell by passing polarized light through the crystal.

Toxin, I never said 4-methylaminorex was d-methamphetamine. Also, one cannot convert an l isomer to a d isomer. Or else everyone would be converting Dextromethorphan into Levomethorphan (a highly addictive narcotic related to levorphanol). One can separate the isomers from the racemate (containing both isomers) into the d and the l, but the levo cannot be processed into the dextro isomer.

What I am really saying is "Ice" (a slang) is mainly used to refer to d-methamphetamine (which produces shards, crystals, or powder form). 4-methylaminorex is not an epidemic in the U.S. at this time, it is mainly in history. Ice mainly refers to d-methamphetamine in this day and age (2012). Have you ever looked at the synthesis for 4-methylaminorex? They mainly refer to it as U4EuH these days, because d-meth took it's name away because of it's inactivity in the drug world.

When you watch "Dog the Bounty Hunter" and he refers to someone using "Ice" he is referring to d-methamphetamine. It is what came from Southeast Asia to Hawaii, not 4-methylaminorex.

This is not my opinion, this is a fact. I have placed one reference on so people know the timeline of 4-methylaminorex. The cat says it is much more dangerous and hard to synthesize than d-methamphetamine, thus obtaining the chemicals and precursors is practically impossible these days.

I respect your opinion, Toxin, however, have you ever encountered 4-methylaminorex on the street. I've been here for 34 years, and never have come across this drug. In my honest opinion, I believe that when the Australian OP comes across a wet crystalline substance, with a strong chemical odor, it is either Aminorex or 4-methylaminorex or some poorly synthesized stimulant, since it is usually found in the illicit arena as a freebase hydrate, with a fairly low melting point. Most anywhere you Google, they refer to these substances as "U4EuH" or "euphoria" for the aminorex compounds and analogs, and "Ice" for specifically d-methamphetamine.

The main question should be, "How does one know if one has d-methamphetamine or 4-methylaminorex". It can be answered, all one needs to do is start a thread. Personally, I don't care what people think the slang term "Ice" means, I call it speed, d-meth or "glass". However, I feel it is important for safety concerns that one knows what one it putting in their body.

salgoud (Just an article to expound on the popularity of 4-MAR: http://www.maps.org/media/view/eupho...aided_at_home/). I was particularly surprised when I read this excerpt: "Pallen said the DEA hasn't seen the drug in their labs in more than a decade." Pallen works for the DEA.

"The above is a theoretical discussion about a slang name "Ice". Nothing more and nothing less. This is not a discussion on the synthesis of either 4-methylaminorex or d-methamphetamine"

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Last edited by salgoud; 05-02-2012 at 17:29. Reason: correcting spelling

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