Combinations - p.e.p pills and SSRI's?

[retired-raver]

I'm considering trying p.e.p pills which contain piperazines, it says piperazine blend on the packaging but I'm pretty sure it's some combination of BZP and TFMPP.

I'm on an SSRI (Prozac), very low dose, 10mg/day and the packaging states you shouldn't take p.e.p's if you take SSRI's or MAOI's. I can understand MAOI's but I'm not convinced that it would be dangerous to combine an SSRI with piperazines. Could it just be the manufacturers covering their backs?

I have taken MDMA quite a few times while I've been on an SSRI and while their was a slightly diminished effect (maybe 20% or so) I was otherwise ok. In fact many people recommend taking an SSRI after MDMA to reduce the possible nuerotoxic effects of E. I understand that piperazines act in much the same way as MDMA which is why I'm somewhat sceptical about the manufacturers warning.

Does anyone have any experience of mixing piperazines with SSRI's?

Any other advice welcome.

[Abrad]

I wouldn't take the chance. They aren't worth the side effects anyway IMO.

[Thirdedge]

I,ve taken large combinations of Kanna (suspected SSRI) before, during and after Piperazines (bzp, tfmpp, possibly others). No negative effects noticed but I would urge you to seek professional advice on this.

[Nagognog2]

Piperazines have little to no research done regards there exact interactive effects with most other drugs. This is why they are regarded as Research Chemicals. Unless you care to be a guinea pig, I'd advise not to combine these. SSRI's are currently undergoing more and more scrutiny as stands. The learning-curve is getting very steep. To be safe, which you obviously want to be by asking, my only answer is to wait.

[Jatelka]

SWIJ has been doing some neuropharmacological rummaging (sounds painful? It was).

After searching Embase, MedLine and Cochrane and a couple of other databases: As far as she can work out no-one has actually determined BZP's mechanism of action yet (other than vague comments about it acting "on the serotonergic system") and the data for other piperazines is equally vague.

As for interactions with anything (let alone SSRI's): SWIY is into completely uncharted territory, a true guinea pig.

As for BZP/TFMPP combos there is some evidence out there that suggests a synergistic effect, and more likelihood of adverse effects (including seizures and serotonin syndrome).

These truly are "Research Chemicals".

[retired-raver]

Thanks for the replies.

hmmm, now I'm not so sure. Having said that these things are legal in many parts of the world and apparently there has only been one reported fatality and that was due to excessive water intake. I would presume that at least some of the thousands who have tried BZP have been on SSRI's and I do have anecdotal evidence that the two are safe to combine.

Guess it's up to me really but it would be interesting to hear from anyone who has actually combined the two.

[Abrad]

What is this "anecdotal evidence" you have? You really shouldn't presume that because it is legal that it is safe, let alone safe in combination with SSRI's. It is up to SWIY to decide what to do, but keep in mind this is unknown territory.

[retired-raver]

Originally Posted by abrad84

What is this "anecdotal evidence" you have?

I've read a couple of Internet forum posts from people who have combined the two but how reliable that info is - who knows

I hear what your saying though, basically it's an unknown quantity.

[retired-raver]

For those who may interested.

SWIM who also takes 10mg/day Prozac tried pep pills on Friday evening. Here is SWIM's report.

5.45pm SWIM joins some friends at a pub and drinks one and half pints of lager.

6.45pm SWIM, now feeling slightly merry gets the train home and in his slightly inebriated state concludes that tonight might be a good night to try the p.e.p pills he had recently purchased.

7.15pm SWIM arrives home gets freshened up and changed into more comfortable clothing, at 7.45pm SWIM decides a few tokes on a skunk joint might make the train journey back into town more enjoyable so SWIM has a few tokes and leaves the house to get the train back into town.

8.15pm SWIM meets some friends at a bar, everyone is drinking cocktails so SWIM orders a cocktail.

9.00pm SWIM has now had two cocktails and is feeling very merry and decides to drop one p.e.p pill to test the water and continues to drink more cocktails.

9.30pm The first effects become apparent although it's hard for SWIM to differentiate between the slight anxiety of trying a new substance and the actual effects but effects seem to get stronger over a period of about half an hour.

10pm Full effects have kicked in, SWIM notices that it's very much like speed, dilated pupils, nice face and back rushes, energy and lots of chatty confidence. On the whole very pleasurable and almost indistinguishable from the effects of speed. A friend of SWIM's tries the other p.e.p pill that he has with him as SWIM concludes that one would be enough for tonight.

10pm - 2.30am SWIM consumes more cocktails which seem to have little effect much like drinking on speed or cocaine. The buzz is still strong and only at 2.30am-ish does SWIM start to feel any noticable drop in the buzz.

2.30am - 4.30am SWIM and his friend who has also taken a p.e.p pill get the bus to his friends house, listen to music and chat lots very much like of they were on speed.

4.30am SWIM notices the buzz has dropped considerably and is now feeling quite tired and decides to call it a night, swim gets a taxi home.

5am - 9am SWIM's pupil dilation starts to recede but swim can't sleep and now has a mild comedown along with quite a stinking hangover but overall doesn't feel too bad. SWIM takes his usual 10mg dose of Prozac.

9am - 2pm SWIM feels a bit rough but thinks this is more to do with the amount of alcohol consumed than the p.e.p pills. The buzz has long since gone and although SWIM cannot feel any noticeable residual stimulation SWIM just cannot get to sleep. SWIM manages to eat some breakfast, reads a book and then watches some tv.

2pm - 3pm SWIM is starting to feel sleepy and at about 3pm falls asleep.

3pm - 7pm SWIM is asleep.

7pm - 2am SWIM awakes at 7pm and is very hungry, eats some dinner, continues reading and then watches some tv however considering how little sleep SWIM has had he does not feel that tired.

2.30am SWIM eventually gets to sleep and awakes at 10.30am

10.30am - SWIM feels generally a bit weird and a little bit tired as if he has done speed or e's but other than that nothing unusual.

SWIM concludes that -

a: P.E.P pills are very enjoyable and the effects are very much like speed.

b: There is no contraindication with SSRI's and SWIM feels rather more confident about taking P.E.P's in the future.

However please note, little is known about Piperazines and SWIM recognises that there was considerable risk in taking P.E.P's in combination with an SSRI. This is just SWIM's experience and should by no means be taken as gospel.

[Nagognog2]

Thank you for your report. Now let's just hope you don't end up with pancreatic cancer in five years - or something else amusing.

[retired-raver]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Thank you for your report. Now let's just hope you don't end up with pancreatic cancer in five years - or something else amusing.

Of course, after all you have to look the bright side don't you.

[Allex]

Lets also hope you one day learn not to take excessive alcohol in combination with stimulants (or others), and research drugs more before you try or combine them, rather than being a crazy n00b who has a stroke at 36 and only then learns not to combine stimulants with alcohol - by which time its too risky to continue using much of either. Why the hell do you need to drink anyway - it takes away from the buzz. Unless your some football crazy bloke who spends all their time in the pub. I would say the alcohol you drank with the PEP pills far outweighed the risks of just combining with an SSRI. Take my advice and dont use yourself as a drug testing guinea pig when other people already know the results. Use the Erowid vaults.

I give you some credit for asking on here first about the SSRI though..

[Paroxetine 4 life]

Yo .....

im currently in the middle of my first roll with p.e.p pills.

ive been on daily 20mg dosage of seroxat / paroxetine for 9 years now.

started the evening with a few pints of cider and half a G of whizz.

i was completely levelled on my amphetamine hit , so decided to try just 1 pep ...

dear god these things are nuts .. how they can be legal is beyond me ...


anyways , enough rambling , as a taker of paroxetine i have no bad vibes to report concerning the mixture of these with my seratonin replacement medication ... and as long as i keep myself hydrated i cant see any problems with the come down ...


just my 2 cents , but everyones brain is wired differently , and ive been a recreationalist for about 16 years now , so i can only vouch for my own roll .....


be safe .....


Darren

[Jatelka]

Paroxetine 4 Life: Please read the rules of drugs forum. They can be found here...

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/ann...t.php?f=43&a=1

Do NOT incriminate yourself. Use SWIM (Someone Who Isn't Me) or something similar when talking about extracurricular activities.