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  #1  
Old 27-08-2011, 10:11
Drey Drey is offline
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Answered: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

Hi all!
This is my first post, besides my introduction post. I have a question about drug testing for anyone who thinks they might have any worthwhile information for me. I've search this and many other forums and websites in the past 3 days searching for answers about false positives and there is surprisingly little information beyond the usual suspects of a false positive result for cocaine in a urine analysis.

For example, most websites quote the same 4 or 5 possible suspects; Kidney/liver disease/infection; Diabetes; Tonic water(?); antibiotics (2 in particular; Amoxicillin and Ampicillin). It's a very short list, as opposed to THC for example, so I'm led to believe in a lab mix-up, a fault in the testing system(I've read there can be as high as a 10% chance of a false result in some of the cheaper testing systems used by some labs, especially those used by clinics who test thousands of patients weekly. Some of this info was posted on not so reputable websites though.).


Some might say I'm crying over spilt milk here as I'm not facing criminal charges or the loss of a job, as I'm only dealing with punishment from a methadone clinic. Regardless, this false positive test result that I received has greatly disturbed me and has made me very paranoid of what might happen in the future might it happen again.


I credit the methadone program I'm on with practically saving my life and would not do anything to jeopardize it, so I don't take kindly to anything out of my control that jeopardizes it for me. I have been on the program for a little over a year and this was the first dirty test result on me. The punishment I received was losing 3 out of 5 home carries, which means I have to cross town on the bus an extra 3 days a week. What I was told by the pharmacy owner/head pharmacist was that while I WAS being punished, even though I knew of many other methadone patients this happened to that had gotten the benefit of a doubt by their recovery doctors at least once, that this specific privately owned pharmacy was under the microscope and could not let anyone who was guilty on paper go unpunished anymore. She then proceed to tell me that because she, my doctor, and everyone else who works though I was innocent and that their had to be a mistake, that is why they weren't punishing me as harshly as they could have. In other words, I would get my carries back in 2 weeks tops as opposed to 6 to 8 weeks with clean urine test. This is good, and I told her I appreciated that, but that's not the main issue I have with this.

Just having this on my file is mostly what's bothering me as it could end up biting me in the ass in the future if ever this happens again, or god forbid, I do make a mistake later on, et cetera. Understand? If I end up with a new doctor, is he going to know that my last doctor didn't believe I was guilty? No. He's just gonna see that I did cocaine in the past and judge me accordingly, and so on...


So, my question is how do I go about possibly vindicating myself? I suppose I'm asking for the impossible as I'm sure there've been those who have faced worse circumstances than I who weren't able to vindicate themselves, but I have to at least try.


I keep wondering about hair test and fingernail test. If it was truly a false positive, and not accidental ingestion, which I absolutely don't believe is a possibility because I was told it would have to have been enough that I would have felt it a little for it to show up in a urine analysis, wouldn't a hair follicle or fingernail test vindicate me? and how does someone go about getting one of these test done? do I have to request it from them? Or is it possible to get it done privately?

This is what I read on the Drug Testing Guide here:
"Any false positive can be cleared up with a confirmation test. Confirmation tests (GC/MS) are highly sophisticated and are not prone to false positives."
This is all good but how do I get one of these test done when they told me I tested positive almost 3 weeks ago, on aug 8th?


Thanks you for your time. If I left anything out, just ask.


Drey
Best Answer - Posted by Mr. Jiki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drey View Post
You might be surprised to read on it about the 2 week specimen shelf life and the fact it adds results are "presumtive only"! This shocked me in particular because of the fact I was punished kind of harshly for a first offence, imo and in comparison to other clinics as I was told by other that at their clinics, policy is for one offence, only one carry was lost and so on, wheas I lost 3 for one offence. Also, the offense was only brought up 2 weeks after the sample! How is a comfirmation test requested when the specimen is only kept for 2 week?? Frustrating!


Thanks for posting the report. If they only keep samples positive or negative for 2 weeks, and the test was run on 10 Aug 11, that'd put you over a few days and the sample may have already been destroyed. As I'd thought the result there was from a screen, EIA/EMIT/CEDIA/etc. So like toxin and yourself have seen it's presumptive only, there could be cocaine (more like benzoylecgonine) in the urine, there could be "asparagus juice", without the GC/MS results the subject shouldn't be punished.

The lab report also says that it is for the drug treatment counselor or doctor, so I'm sure they'd have to initiate the confirmation test "if needed." Again, if this is really bothering you and you believe 100% it was a mistake, you should get legal counsel with a lawyer that deals with these types of things. Most, if not all labs, have policies where they don't deal with subject's about their samples. And even if they still have the presumptive positive sample, you'd probably need a court order for them to relinquish an aliquot of the sample to be sent out for confirmation testing. This would, of course, be on your dime 99% of the time, but if you feel it is in error perhaps the price won't be a factor.

However, I work in a forensics lab, so I'm not sure how the dealings work with methadone clinics or the policies of the lab that performed the screen. But, there was no quantitation done for the screen, it's a purely qualitative test, it's either positive or it's negative. The GC/MS tets will be able to tell the exact level of cocaine, metabolite or nothing that was in the urine sample. If the confirmation cutoff was say 100 ng/ml and the sample was say 35 ng/ml, to me and to my lab that is negative and we report it as such. As you can see other labs might have the option of reporting it as positive-below cutoff. That is why it'd be wise to lawyer up if your state has it on the books that these doctors and clinics can treat a positive-below cutoff result as a positive and deny services. In my state that'd be illegal, or at least wouldn't hold up in court. But every place seems to be different with these sorts of things, so best to check it out.

As toxin already stated it's best not to worry about the diseases, energy drinks, antibiotics causing the false positive on the screen. And as I said on my first post, the cocaine assay is pretty specific. I'll post a little screenshot from the Cocaine CEDIA Assay specificity that is probably somewhat similar, if not the same, as what the lab that tested your sample is using. You'll notice they test other drugs and endogenous substances to see if that would cause a false positive on the screen.

  #2  
Old 27-08-2011, 14:44
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Re: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

Normally, all samples that have been tested and show a positive "hit" for any substance are kept in storage for anywhere from 3 months to a year, depending on the testing facility policy. This is done for exactly the reason you detail here.

You should immediately request a confirmation test on the suspect sample, regardless of the amount of time that has passed. This will be done via GC/MS and not by providing a new sample. If the clinic tells you that they did not keep the sample (which is usually a violation of company policy and maybe even law), then you can request that the "positive" be eliminated from your record as being non-confirmable and a new test be done to take its place.

This is when you request a hair or fingernail test! That will cover the time period in question and will vindicate you.

Remember, the flip side of this is that if the new/secondary test does come back positive, you have just royally screwed yourself! It comes down to knowing you are right vs. being able to positively prove you are right. It might be better, if any doubt at all exists, to take what you got and run with it, rather than roll the dice again.

Tough decision on your part, and I wish you good luck with it! Keep us informed of what happens, if you wouldn't mind.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Good advice, particularly suggesting requesting a GC/MS confirmatory analysis
  #3  
Old 27-08-2011, 17:03
Mr. Jiki Mr. Jiki is offline
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Re: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drey View Post
For example, most websites quote the same 4 or 5 possible suspects; Kidney/liver disease/infection; Diabetes; Tonic water(?); antibiotics (2 in particular; Amoxicillin and Ampicillin). It's a very short list, as opposed to THC for example, so I'm led to believe in a lab mix-up, a fault in the testing system(I've read there can be as high as a 10% chance of a false result in some of the cheaper testing systems used by some labs, especially those used by clinics who test thousands of patients weekly. Some of this info was posted on not so reputable websites though.).
While there are screens that are prone to have false positives that could be as high as 10%, that isn't the norm. Screens like amphetamine screens will sometimes screen false positives if the person is on enough sudafed or vicks inhalers. Cocaine assays are pretty specific and aren't prone to a 1 in 10 samples having a false positive due to other than using cocaine factors. A person with level of amoxicillin in their urine > 1,000,000 ng/ml to would screen negative in a cocaine screen. The companies that make the screens are in the business of making money, and constantly having false positives is going to lead to them losing business with those labs.

That isn't to say that it doesn't happen. Happens here and there, mostly with amphetamine, benzodiazapine and PCP screens. When we see cocaine false positives it is generally because the positive confirmation via GC/MS was below cutoff, not because there was absolutely no cocaine or cocaine metabolites in the sample. But, my state doesn't have a really high cocaine user population, so that doesn't mean a lab that has a larger amount of positive cocaine screens doesn't see those type of results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drey View Post
So, my question is how do I go about possibly vindicating myself? I suppose I'm asking for the impossible as I'm sure there've been those who have faced worse circumstances than I who weren't able to vindicate themselves, but I have to at least try.
Were you able to look at the lab report? There should be a column listing all the drug classes they screened for and your creatine level, some labs test for specific gravity as well. I'm guessing that there would be a "positive" result next to the Cocaine test column. And perhaps under that or besides it should be something like "Cocaine results confirmed by GC/MS........" and there would be a negative or positive result by that. Since you say it was a false positive I'll assume that that result was negative.

If the confirmation was negative, the subject needs to be treated as such. Whether it was a flat negative confirmation (e.g. some disease or medication tripped the positive screen), or a below cutoff negative confirmation, there shouldn't have been any punishment for a negative confirmation. Your best bet in cases like these is to seek legal counsel. A person should NEVER be punished for a positive screen, especially when it is confirmed as a negative result. A lawyer that deals with HIPPA or medical type records should be able to let you know what your rights are if a new doctor does try to give you a hard time for having 1 positive screen in your record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drey View Post
If it was truly a false positive, and not accidental ingestion, which I absolutely don't believe is a possibility because I was told it would have to have been enough that I would have felt it a little for it to show up in a urine analysis, wouldn't a hair follicle or fingernail test vindicate me?
Depending on how soon before the test cocaine was "accidentally ingested" no matter the amount, that would cause the positive screen. Because the screen isn't really looking for cocaine, rather the cocaine metabolite Benzoylecgonine (BE), which can screen positive with as little as 30 ng/mL in urine. BE can stay in the body in delectable levels for 48-72 hours. Most labs will have BE, cocaine, and other cocaine metabolites at a 100 ng/mL cutoff, so say the sample had 45 ng/mL of BE, a confirmation showing 45 ng/mL of BE would count as a negative confirmation result.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Useful additional information for scrutinizing the test results with a healthy dose of realism added
  #4  
Old 28-08-2011, 12:05
Drey Drey is offline
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Re: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

Thanks VERY much for the replies guys. unfortunately I'll only be able to read them thoroughly tomorow. Have a good night!

Drey added 441 Minutes and 36 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post
Normally, all samples that have been tested and show a positive "hit" for any substance are kept in storage for anywhere from 3 months to a year, depending on the testing facility policy. This is done for exactly the reason you detail here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post


Excellent to know!


Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post
You should immediately request a confirmation test on the suspect sample, regardless of the amount of time that has passed. This will be done via GC/MS and not by providing a new sample. If the clinic tells you that they did not keep the sample (which is usually a violation of company policy and maybe even law), then you can request that the "positive" be eliminated from your record as being non-confirmable and a new test be done to take its place. This is when you request a hair or fingernail test! That will cover the time period in question and will vindicate you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post


Very good advice and information, and a good process to follow, thanks! You've given somewhere to start at least and points to argue!



Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post
Remember, the flip side of this is that if the new/secondary test does come back positive, you have just royally screwed yourself! It comes down to knowing you are right vs. being able to positively prove you are right. It might be better, if any doubt at all exists, to take what you got and run with it, rather than roll the dice again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post


Yes, I realize this and I believe I am prepared to take that chance as I cannot believe there was actually cocaine in my system when this happened.


Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post
Tough decision on your part, and I wish you good luck with it! Keep us informed of what happens, if you wouldn't mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post


I don't really feel it's that hard a decision in my case. I don't think there will be harsher circumstances in the odd chance I would test positive again. So I believe I'm only going to clear myself. I'll find out either way what the consequences are going to be, if any different.

I will absolutely keep you informed of what happens with this. I hope I don't get lazy on this, as has happened with me in the past. I really want to get this cleared up more than anything right now. Having to go to the pharmacy every dam day is a good start and will at least force me to face them everyday to get the process underway and sit there and bug them with questions all day if I have too, lol.


************************************************** *******************


[QUOTE=Mr. Jiki;1022364]While there are screens that are prone to have false positives that could be as high as 10%, that isn't the norm. Screens like

Drey added 8 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

I'm not sure what the heck happened to the rest of my post? Most of what I had answered to Mr.Jiki wasn't included, and it was ALOT!! I understand that this forum Automerges doublepost, but why did it cut it off? Is there a limit to automerges? I see no way to edit a post either. Is there a way? I'm hoping I can include the last part of my message somehow.

And I have no idea why the foramting screwed up when trying to quote the other post also? It seems to be adding quotes automatically for some reason?


Any help would be appreciated! Sorry for screwing up this thread it seems...

Drey added 0 Minutes and 37 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post
Normally, all samples that have been tested and show a positive "hit" for any substance are kept in storage for anywhere from 3 months to a year, depending on the testing facility policy. This is done for exactly the reason you detail here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post




Excellent to know!





Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post
You should immediately request a confirmation test on the suspect sample, regardless of the amount of time that has passed. This will be done via GC/MS and not by providing a new sample. If the clinic tells you that they did not keep the sample (which is usually a violation of company policy and maybe even law), then you can request that the "positive" be eliminated from your record as being non-confirmable and a new test be done to take its place. This is when you request a hair or fingernail test! That will cover the time period in question and will vindicate you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post




Very good advice and information, and a good process to follow, thanks! You've given somewhere to start at least and points to argue!







Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post
Remember, the flip side of this is that if the new/secondary test does come back positive, you have just royally screwed yourself! It comes down to knowing you are right vs. being able to positively prove you are right. It might be better, if any doubt at all exists, to take what you got and run with it, rather than roll the dice again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post




Yes, I realize this and I believe I am prepared to take that chance as I cannot believe there was actually cocaine in my system when this happened.





Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post
Tough decision on your part, and I wish you good luck with it! Keep us informed of what happens, if you wouldn't mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post




I don't really feel it's that hard a decision in my case. I don't think there will be harsher circumstances in the odd chance I would test positive again. So I believe I'm only going to clear myself. I'll find out either way what the consequences are going to be, if any different.



I will absolutely keep you informed of what happens with this. I hope I don't get lazy on this, as has happened with me in the past. I really want to get this cleared up more than anything right now. Having to go to the pharmacy every dam day is a good start and will at least force me to face them everyday to get the process underway and sit there and bug them with questions all day if I have too, lol.





************************************************** *******************




[QUOTE=Mr. Jiki;1022364]While there are screens that are prone to have false positives that could be as high as 10%, that isn't the norm. Screens like

Drey added 5 Minutes and 13 Seconds later...

I'm REALLY SORRY for the double posting!! I do not understand why my reply is being cut off where it is. There is about 80% of my message being cut off. Pretty upsetting considering I just spent about an hour and a half typing up a thoughfull thorough response to these peoples helpfull replies to my OP.

Please help! I still have the message I just typed saved, but I have no idea why it won't post in it's entirety. Grrr

PS: Is there somewhere I can read how the formating on this forum works? It seems to be much different to all the other forums I've belonged to. Thanks again!
Drey

Last edited by Drey; 28-08-2011 at 12:05. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #5  
Old 28-08-2011, 16:09
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Re: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

Don't know why its doing this, either, but it is confusing as hell to read! If you don't get it figured out, try putting in a bug report. Access the "help" button (underneith the flags at the top of your screen, but all the way to the left) and you will get a drop-down menu. I'm pretty sure that's it anyway!
  #6  
Old 29-08-2011, 12:04
Drey Drey is offline
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Re: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

OK! Hopefully I figured out how to post this correctly. Changing editor types seems to be working so here goes.....(Thanks for your patience!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post
Normally, all samples that have been tested and show a positive "hit" for any substance are kept in storage for anywhere from 3 months to a year, depending on the testing facility policy. This is done for exactly the reason you detail here.


Excellent to know!





Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post
You should immediately request a confirmation test on the suspect sample, regardless of the amount of time that has passed. This will be done via GC/MS and not by providing a new sample. If the clinic tells you that they did not keep the sample (which is usually a violation of company policy and maybe even law), then you can request that the "positive" be eliminated from your record as being non-confirmable and a new test be done to take its place. This is when you request a hair or fingernail test! That will cover the time period in question and will vindicate you.


Very good advice and information, and a good process to follow, thanks! You've given somewhere to start at least and points to argue!







Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post
Remember, the flip side of this is that if the new/secondary test does come back positive, you have just royally screwed yourself! It comes down to knowing you are right vs. being able to positively prove you are right. It might be better, if any doubt at all exists, to take what you got and run with it, rather than roll the dice again.


Yes, I realize this and I believe I am prepared to take that chance as I cannot believe there was actually cocaine in my system when this happened.





Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post
Tough decision on your part, and I wish you good luck with it! Keep us informed of what happens, if you wouldn't mind.


I don't really feel it's that hard a decision in my case. I don't think there will be harsher circumstances in the odd chance I would test positive again. So I believe I'm only going to clear myself. I'll find out either way what the consequences are going to be, if any different.



I will absolutely keep you informed of what happens with this. I hope I don't get lazy on this, as has happened with me in the past. I really want to get this cleared up more than anything right now. Having to go to the pharmacy every dam day is a good start and will at least force me to face them everyday to get the process underway and sit there and bug them with questions all day if I have too, lol.





************************************************** *******************



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jiki View Post
While there are screens that are prone to have false positives that could be as high as 10%, that isn't the norm. Screens like amphetamine screens will sometimes screen false positives if the person is on enough sudafed or vicks inhalers. Cocaine assays are pretty specific and aren't prone to a 1 in 10 samples having a false positive due to other than using cocaine factors. A person with level of amoxicillin in their urine > 1,000,000 ng/ml to would screen negative in a cocaine screen. The companies that make the screens are in the business of making money, and constantly having false positives is going to lead to them losing business with those labs.



That isn't to say that it doesn't happen. Happens here and there, mostly with amphetamine, benzodiazapine and PCP screens. When we see cocaine false positives it is generally because the positive confirmation via GC/MS was below cut off, not because there was absolutely no cocaine or cocaine metabolites in the sample. But, my state doesn't have a really high cocaine user population, so that doesn't mean a lab that has a larger amount of positive cocaine screens doesn't see those type of results.
Like I said, some of that info(the 10% in particular) appeared on less than reputable websites (but more than 1), but sounded very possible, especially if you consider a inexpensive testing kit that a private clinic would probably use for testing many many MANY methadone patients daily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jiki View Post
Were you able to look at the lab report?
No I was NOT able to look at it nor was it offered or even suggested. It was all very unprofessional, especially after reading both of your posts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jiki View Post
There should be a column listing all the drug classes they screened for and your creatine level, some labs test for specific gravity as well. I'm guessing that there would be a "positive" result next to the Cocaine test column. And perhaps under that or besides it should be something like "Cocaine results confirmed by GC/MS........" and there would be a negative or positive result by that. Since you say it was a false positive I'll assume that that result was negative.


So you're saying that a GC/MS test should have been done automatically after the initial positive result? I was in the belief that this automatic process would only be in more serious of circumstances like a military, or criminal issue, or someone's job on the line maybe. Not for a methadone patient who is just someone off the street to these people. I'm sure they don't expect any of their patients to be able to fight them on any issue. And I would say they are right in most cases.

I'm not sure I follow with the negative/positive results you were talking about specifically. The only reason I'm using the term "false positive" is because I believe there was a mistake other than accidental ingestion or anything else on my side. I realize that term only really applies to a faulty testing system result, or something else in my system that caused the positive for cocaine metabolite, like diabetes for example. This is what the term false positive is used for right? I apologize if I'm using it improperly or in a presumptuous manner. Thanks for the help correcting me if so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jiki View Post
If the confirmation was negative, the subject needs to be treated as such. Whether it was a flat negative confirmation (e.g. some disease or medication tripped the positive screen), or a below cutoff negative confirmation, there shouldn't have been any punishment for a negative confirmation. Your best bet in cases like these is to seek legal counsel. A person should NEVER be punished for a positive screen, especially when it is confirmed as a negative result. A lawyer that deals with HIPPA or medical type records should be able to let you know what your rights are if a new doctor does try to give you a hard time for having 1 positive screen in your record.
Well, if it can come out somehow that it was tripped by something else, then I'm sure the necessary corrections will be made and that will be the end of it, or the start of a different process for myself in particular because of whatever caused the false result. We'll see...and let's hope for the best!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jiki View Post
Depending on how soon before the test cocaine was "accidentally ingested" no matter the amount, that would cause the positive screen. Because the screen isn't really looking for cocaine, rather the cocaine metabolite Benzoylecgonine (BE), which can screen positive with as little as 30 ng/mL in urine. BE can stay in the body in delectable levels for 48-72 hours. Most labs will have BE, cocaine, and other cocaine metabolites at a 100 ng/mL cutoff, so say the sample had 45 ng/mL of BE, a confirmation showing 45 ng/mL of BE would count as a negative confirmation result.
That is pretty interesting and not how I understood the way it was. Even the head pharmacist confirmed to me that an accidental ingestion would have had to have been enough that I would have HAD to have felt it, for it to show up in my test. Regardless, let me tell you how this came up in the thought process and how I, and a few others including the head pharmacist, came to this conclusion;


My girlfriend and I have been together for 4 years on the 23rd. We consider ourselves the lucky ones in love I guess because both of our lives were in the gutter before we met and we both turned our lives around and have been doing better and better all the time since. I myself had kicked heavy duty pain killers a few months before meeting her, but I was still taking a massive amount of acetaminophen with codeine tablets daily, to fight the withdrawals, but became very dependant on those and kept taking them for years afterwards, in the process damaging my liver immensely I'm sure. This is why I credit the methadone program with saving my life, because just I know using those pills at the rate I was, was going to kill me before the age of 45. It's something you can just feel inside you when you're killing yourself slowly with something.

Before my GF and I met, she had been doing cocaine, crack mostly, going on 20 years! She knew cocaine inside out ,and upside down! It was and still is her demon. So when we met, she was still dabbling with cocaine a little, but because she knew I was just starting to rehabilitate myself off of opiates, she made an effort to kick her own cocaine habit. She slipped a couple times but within 2-3 months of dating, she had kicked it completely, and only then did we start going steady as they say. We consider ourselves married now. We both can't see ourselves with anyone else and this is why I say we're one of the lucky ones because we still love each other very much, even more than at first, the more we got to know each other the more we wanted to be together. Because of this, we developed a very VERY honest relationship and don't keep anything from each other. It hasn't been hard at all really because neither on of us live the kind of life where we do anything to want to hide from the other. In other words, our lives are very boring! We don't do anything, but that's the way we both like it, thankfully!

My point to all this is that she is my cocaine expert in this situation. Since she kicked her cocaine habit, she has gone to weed fulltime. She always did love her weed before, but now it's what she calls her drug of choice. She's unlike me in every way when it comes to weed also! She can function very very well when she smokes weed, I can't. I smoke about 5% the amount of wed she does, but it hits me much harder than her. So I'll take usually one or 2 puffs off a joint when it goes around. This is one of the reasons I don't believe it could have been accidently ingested through weed, which is the ONLY substance I have ever ever touched off of the streets in the past 12 months or more.

So you say the amount doesn't necessarily have to be enough that I would have felt it for it to show up in my UA? Let's say it was through weed laced with cocaine a little. Don't you think with her history with cocaine, and the fact she smokes about 95% more than I do that she would have felt the cocaine buzz? Of course this only applies to something that she was ingesting also, I understand, but I can't even think of anything that I would have ingested that she didn't over the past long while? You know?

Regardless, I'm gonna keep in mind everything you mentioned about the levels in testing and look into that subject a little more when I can. In the meanwhile, you've both given me quite a bit of ammo let's say to start fighting this somehow, and I thank you both very much! You have no idea how much it's appreciated! If I could both give you 1000 reputation points, I would lol! (PS: this is the first forum that uses rep points like this so I'm not sure how they work completely but have credited the both of you with what I could!)

So toxinreleased and Mr. Jiki, I thank you again for taking the time to answer and try to help me out! I hope I can be as helpful in the future, for sure! In the meanwhile, I will be looking into the process you've told me about and asking the right questions about how this was handled by all the channels and people that are supposed to handle it. We will see what they have to say to some of these questions. I am very eager to hear how they might reply to some of those questions and requests.

I don't believe they've tried punishing someone like myself in the past at this clinic since it opened. If this is how they operate, I find it hard to believe that anyone has ever challenged them at all. Beyond the common drug addict taking a fit or two at the initial stage of the punishment, but eventually cooling off and taking it up the wazoo. I am going to try to be the worse opponent they have ever had regarding this subject. I have some knowledge and resources to at least be able to research this as much as possible like I'm doing currently with both of your help thankfully! I am an IT professional so I am going to use every skill at my disposal to bring this issue to justice and maybe help some others along the way who come across this same injustice but who aren't prepared to fight it like I was but do not have any resources or help! That would be awesome to be able to help vindicate someone like that.

If I can ever vindicate myself, you both will have had very much to do with it and may god bless you both either way, and whomever else decides to throw in their 2 cents with helpful info in the future maybe! Not trying to get all mushy but it is very appreciated, even though it's not a life/death issue as I've stated, but it could become much worse for me in the future if I just let it slide you know? Screw that I say! Fight the power!! Haha!

No but seriously now, I don't believe in anything sinister going on at this pharmacy. I've actually been very satisfied with my treatment as a patient and a human being since I started going there, I've just NEVER imagined something like this happening to me! I've never looked into this subject and just assumed that as long as I was good, it would show on my UA, and they would know the truth. Alas, the truth is much harder to discover for all as usual!

No, as opposed to something sinister, I just see a group of professionals, recovery Doctors, pharmacists, technicians et cetera, who have started a private drug recovery clinic out of a need in this city, a supposed sympathy by the owner who started it towards addicts, and of course, a way for them to make money. I just see them having become lazy, and afraid maybe of whoever these "opponents of the clinic" are which the owner has mentioned to me who are trying to shut her down for some reason, and who are watching everything they do under a microscope. Afraid they might lose their clinic and their jobs and livelihoods, which is understandable, but shouldn't take a life of even one of the "addicts" for a joke and use him as a scapegoat for doing the right thing as far as following procedure in punishing a drug offender. I'm not saying I am being used as a scapegoat by the doctor who might be under pressure to punish someone, anyone. But after looking back at how it was all handled and how quick I was expected to accept the consequences and "move on", it feels like I might just be used as a scapegoat for this.

Well I'll leave it at that for now. Sorry to rant a little, and to go on and on maybe unnecessarily on certain subjects. I apologize for any TL-DNR's.

Thanks again and again!

Sincerely,

Drey
  #7  
Old 29-08-2011, 14:15
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Re: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

Several things here. First of all, I am glad we could have been of some small service to you in regards to your situation and I hope it works out in your favor.

I just briefly skimmed through your last post and I would like to point out a few things for your further information. Please, thoroughly read the rules! As you have said, you are new here. We would hope that you decide to stay after your situation is resolved, but I am obligated to point out some things.

First of all, while I highly appreciate the positive rep, never tell anyone that you have awarded them rep points, either positive or negative! This is skirting the edge of reputation trading and can get both of us in serious trouble. You have mentioned that you have never used such a system before, so it might fly this time, but please, don't make this mistake again. I'll take the rep, just don't tell me about it! As I mentioned, thoroughly re-read the rules, and you will see why this procedure is in place.

If you really want to "pay me back", become a productive, long-term member of this forum! To me (and to a great many of us here!), D-F is a family, and strengthening the family is the best reward that I could ever ask for.

I have been the subject of a very large number of drug tests, but I can only speak to my personal experience. When a sample comes in under the cut-off level, it is not automatically reflected as a negative sample. In my case, it was always listed as "positive, under threshold level". Also, the threshold level is not an arbitrary number, it can be whatever the testing company (in your case, the clinic) requires it to be. For instance, in Arizona, the cut-off for marijuana is 50 nanograms-for employment purposes. For parole/probation, it is set at 25! The military/border patrol/national guard has zero tolerance.

The point is that just because you came in under the cut-off, doesn't mean that it was automatically read as a negative. In addition, a positive hit does not automatically generate a confirmation test by GC/MS. Again, that is up to the testing company. Those tests are very expensive, and your clinic may choose not to auto test positive hits. You will have to ask!

I'm sure that there is more that I want to say, but I am out of time, so I will get back to this in a little while. Hopefully, this will give you some more to think about!

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  #8  
Old 29-08-2011, 17:20
Drey Drey is offline
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Re: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

Quote:
First of all, while I highly appreciate the positive rep, never tell anyone that you have awarded them rep points, either positive or negative! This is skirting the edge of reputation trading and can get both of us in serious trouble. You have mentioned that you have never used such a system before, so it might fly this time, but please, don't make this mistake again. I'll take the rep, just don't tell me about it! As I mentioned, thoroughly re-read the rules, and you will see why this procedure is in place.
Yeah, I received a prv msg about that and I'm real sorry about that. Won't happen again! I did remember reading about rep points tradin in the rules but I just didn't know about the not mentioning it rule! It makes sense and it's understood! Sorry again for screwin that up!

Quote:
If you really want to "pay me back", become a productive, long-term member of this forum! To me (and to a great many of us here!), D-F is a family, and strengthening the family is the best reward that I could ever ask for.
Well, drugs have been part of my entire life and has touched the lives of pretty much everyone I know and my family in one way or another. I'm surprised I didn't find this forum years ago! So I'm pretty confident I'll be coming here for many issues that are sure to come up in the future. This place seems to be a pretty busy AND helpful forum which says volumes about wether or not people return. I'm sure to be one of them!

Quote:
I have been the subject of a very large number of drug tests, but I can only speak to my personal experience. When a sample comes in under the cut-off level, it is not automatically reflected as a negative sample. In my case, it was always listed as "positive, under threshold level".

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean here. When you say: "positive, under threshold level", do you mean that as a GOOD result for you? In other words you passed? I assume you do. Because when I use the term "false positive", I mean positive for presence of cocaine, as I'm sure you knew. I'm just not sure what you getting at with that.

Quote:
Also, the threshold level is not an arbitrary number, it can be whatever the testing company (in your case, the clinic) requires it to be. For instance, in Arizona, the cut-off for marijuana is 50 nanograms-for employment purposes. For parole/probation, it is set at 25! The military/border patrol/national guard has zero tolerance.
I've found out today it's 300ng/mL (for Cocaine) in this case.

Quote:
The point is that just because you came in under the cut-off, doesn't mean that it was automatically read as a negative. In addition, a positive hit does not automatically generate a confirmation test by GC/MS. Again, that is up to the testing company. Those tests are very expensive, and your clinic may choose not to auto test positive hits. You will have to ask!

So you're saying that in the past, even though I passed all my tests, I could have had some presence of cocaine biproduct, just not above the cut-off? If so, then I'm starting to worry a little about what could possibly be making me have this in my system. Could I be in early stages of Kidney/Liver disease? Or diabetes maybe? Or am I ingesting something on a regular basis that might be causing this and I, or anyone else for that matter, has no idea this is a trigger? Like something new on the market maybe, like these cheap energy drinks, just for example, that I drink almost everyday?

Quote:
I'm sure that there is more that I want to say, but I am out of time, so I will get back to this in a little while. Hopefully, this will give you some more to think about!
I thank you again for your time! Anything else you want to add in the future is much appreciated also!
I am going to try to add the image of my lab report from Aug 8th. You might be surprised to read on it about the 2 week specimen shelf life and the fact it adds results are "presumtive only"! This shocked me in particular because of the fact I was punished kind of harshly for a first offence, imo and in comparison to other clinics as I was told by other that at their clinics, policy is for one offence, only one carry was lost and so on, wheas I lost 3 for one offence. Also, the offense was only brought up 2 weeks after the sample! How is a comfirmation test requested when the specimen is only kept for 2 week?? Frustrating!

Here is a copy of that report;
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/pic...ictureid=14595
(Hopefully that link works, it said awaiting mod aproval after I uploaded it)

Sincerely and appreciatively,
Drey
  #9  
Old 29-08-2011, 18:05
St Dismas Novitiate St Dismas Novitiate is offline
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Re: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

No need to apologize. I contacted a moderator to get this dealt with before it got out of hand and you started racking up neg rep or got an infraction by Administration. I (we!) hope you stay and become a valued member! This is a high-level, world class harm reduction forum and (as I mentioned before) a family to many of us. It has, quite literally, saved my life! So, welcome to the family!

What I meant by "positive, under threshold level" was that the test detected the presence of something, but that it was under the level specified by the testing organization as being a "confirmed" positive. For instance, say the results came back as positive for cocaine, but it was 200 ng/ml. That is "positive, under threshold level". Does that make sense? This is exactly the scenario in which a confirmation test would by run. So, it could be good or bad, depending on the actions of the testing company. They might just say that it is under the cut-off and leave it at that, or they might do further testing and confirm that there was in fact a dirty U.A.

As far as passing all of your tests in the past, just review your test results! They will tell you what the results were (pos, pos-under cut-off, or neg) as well as the actual numbers, if any exist.

I would not worry about kidney/liver disease, diabetes, passive contamination, energy drinks, or anything like that. That's getting yourself worked up over nothing! If you are truly worried, go to your doctor (or the clinic!) and request a blood test. It's simple, fast, and inexpensive! Tell them you want a CBC/Metabolic panel to check for kidney/liver function, chloresterol (sp?), diabetes, HIV/AIDS, etc. They will take like three tubes of blood and you will have to piss in a cup (for the kidney function), and you will have to fast (nothing but clear liquids for 12 hours prior to the test), but it is a full work-up and it will put your mind at ease.

I see on your test that it shows positive, but gives no numbers. I would ask for that information. I would also ask that, since it is "presumptive only", a confirmation test be done. If they give you any hassle about this, try telling them that you want to file a formal complaint disputing the results of the test and that you want the positive hit to be completely removed from your record. Sometimes, just the threat of a filing will get you what you want! Either way, you will get results. You might have to work on it and put in some effort, it just depends on how badly you want vindicated.
  #10  
Old 29-08-2011, 18:30
Phenoxide Phenoxide is offline
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Re: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased View Post
I would not worry about kidney/liver disease, diabetes, passive contamination, energy drinks, or anything like that. That's getting yourself worked up over nothing! If you are truly worried, go to your doctor (or the clinic!) and request a blood test. It's simple, fast, and inexpensive! Tell them you want a CBC/Metabolic panel to check for kidney/liver function, chloresterol (sp?), diabetes, HIV/AIDS, etc. They will take like three tubes of blood and you will have to piss in a cup (for the kidney function), and you will have to fast (nothing but clear liquids for 12 hours prior to the test), but it is a full work-up and it will put your mind at ease.
Indeed it never hurts to get these things checked out but it's extremely unlikely to be related to the positive test. Impaired liver or kidney function can make drugs persist in the system longer than is typically expected, but if there's no reason to believe that cocaine was consumed at all then this doesn't hold up. Impaired organ function isn't going to miraculously make cocaine appear in blood or excreta.

Quote:
I would also ask that, since it is "presumptive only", a confirmation test be done. If they give you any hassle about this, try telling them that you want to file a formal complaint disputing the results of the test and that you want the positive hit to be completely removed from your record. Sometimes, just the threat of a filing will get you what you want! Either way, you will get results.
Absolutely. The test results state that the immunoassay test result is presumptive and therefore not conclusive. If you contest the positive result then they should initiate the confirmatory test procedure as it states. If they refuse to do so then it is totally unreasonable for the positive test result to stand as the immunoassay tests do occasionally get things wrong for no particular reason. If you're adamant that the result is false then you could even offer to have the confirmatory test performed at your own expense (though bear in mind this is not cheap). This would give a clear indication that you're not wasting their time and money by asking for frivolous re-tests but that you genuinely believe the result to be unreliable.

As previously stated in this thread the flipside of this coin is that confirmatory testing by GC/MS is pretty much bulletproof evidence. If the confirmatory test comes up positive for cocaine then you've removed almost all doubt that cocaine was truly present in the sample. In such a case they'll likely assume that you knew you'd consumed cocaine and were just being difficult, which may affect their attitude towards you going forward or possibly their course of action regarding the positive result.

Depending on the protocols used for GC/MS testing it's also possible that other controlled substances that were not screened for by immunoassay (or that were present below the limits of detection of these tests) will also become detectable. I note that you mention smoking weed, but the immunoassay panels don't seem to be looking for that. A GC/MS test might therefore also identify THC metabolites. Depending on the terms and conditions of the methadone programme you're enrolled in this may also prove problematic.

So think carefully before proceeding. If there's really nothing to hide then by all means request the confirmatory test. If there's a reasonable chance of it turning up more evidence of illicit drug use then it's probably not worth taking the risk of persuing unless your place on the methadone programme is already in immediate jeopardy.

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  #11  
Old 29-08-2011, 18:55
Mr. Jiki Mr. Jiki is offline
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Re: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drey View Post
You might be surprised to read on it about the 2 week specimen shelf life and the fact it adds results are "presumtive only"! This shocked me in particular because of the fact I was punished kind of harshly for a first offence, imo and in comparison to other clinics as I was told by other that at their clinics, policy is for one offence, only one carry was lost and so on, wheas I lost 3 for one offence. Also, the offense was only brought up 2 weeks after the sample! How is a comfirmation test requested when the specimen is only kept for 2 week?? Frustrating!


Thanks for posting the report. If they only keep samples positive or negative for 2 weeks, and the test was run on 10 Aug 11, that'd put you over a few days and the sample may have already been destroyed. As I'd thought the result there was from a screen, EIA/EMIT/CEDIA/etc. So like toxin and yourself have seen it's presumptive only, there could be cocaine (more like benzoylecgonine) in the urine, there could be "asparagus juice", without the GC/MS results the subject shouldn't be punished.

The lab report also says that it is for the drug treatment counselor or doctor, so I'm sure they'd have to initiate the confirmation test "if needed." Again, if this is really bothering you and you believe 100% it was a mistake, you should get legal counsel with a lawyer that deals with these types of things. Most, if not all labs, have policies where they don't deal with subject's about their samples. And even if they still have the presumptive positive sample, you'd probably need a court order for them to relinquish an aliquot of the sample to be sent out for confirmation testing. This would, of course, be on your dime 99% of the time, but if you feel it is in error perhaps the price won't be a factor.

However, I work in a forensics lab, so I'm not sure how the dealings work with methadone clinics or the policies of the lab that performed the screen. But, there was no quantitation done for the screen, it's a purely qualitative test, it's either positive or it's negative. The GC/MS tets will be able to tell the exact level of cocaine, metabolite or nothing that was in the urine sample. If the confirmation cutoff was say 100 ng/ml and the sample was say 35 ng/ml, to me and to my lab that is negative and we report it as such. As you can see other labs might have the option of reporting it as positive-below cutoff. That is why it'd be wise to lawyer up if your state has it on the books that these doctors and clinics can treat a positive-below cutoff result as a positive and deny services. In my state that'd be illegal, or at least wouldn't hold up in court. But every place seems to be different with these sorts of things, so best to check it out.

As toxin already stated it's best not to worry about the diseases, energy drinks, antibiotics causing the false positive on the screen. And as I said on my first post, the cocaine assay is pretty specific. I'll post a little screenshot from the Cocaine CEDIA Assay specificity that is probably somewhat similar, if not the same, as what the lab that tested your sample is using. You'll notice they test other drugs and endogenous substances to see if that would cause a false positive on the screen.



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  #12  
Old 30-08-2011, 10:08
Drey Drey is offline
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Re: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased
It has, quite literally, saved my life! So, welcome to the family!
That is amazing! And thanks very much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased
What I meant by "positive, under threshold level" was that the test detected the presence of something, but that it was under the level specified by the testing organization as being a "confirmed" positive.
NOW I understand what that means! Thanks for explaining that. Positive for something, but still under the punishable amount, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased
They will tell you what the results were (pos, pos-under cut-off, or neg) as well as the actual numbers, if any exist.
As you've seen from the copy of my lab report, but there are NO numbers except the CUT-OFF level. It's looks like a pretty basic report only to be used for speculation I guess. But in my clinics case, they use it a determinative!

Quote:
Originally Posted by toxinreleased
I would also ask that, since it is "presumptive only", a confirmation test be done. If they give you any hassle about this, try telling them that you want to file a formal complaint disputing the results of the test and that you want the positive hit to be completely removed from your record. Sometimes, just the threat of a filing will get you what you want!
It also mentions on the report that specimens are only kept for 2 weeks, which would have made a confirmation impossible the day of my appointment! They waited that long to tell me of the infraction. You would almost believe they wanted to pigeonhole me into this for some reason. I just always though I had a very good report with everyone there, my Dr included. Another thing about making demands, I've been kept up at night since this wondering if I make too much of a stink, if they'll start making my life more difficult somehow, they really have all the cards right now. I'm in no position in my life right now to lawyer-up as I'm pretty poor from being on disability for the past 10 years, which got me into pain meds in the 1st place. So I feel pretty alone in the fight, you know? I will fight this though, to an extent. I can't help it!

************************************************** *************************************
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenoxide
If they refuse to do so then it is totally unreasonable for the positive test result to stand as the immunoassay tests do occasionally get things wrong for no particular reason. If you're adamant that the result is false then you could even offer to have the confirmatory test performed at your own expense (though bear in mind this is not cheap). This would give a clear indication that you're not wasting their time and money by asking for frivolous re-tests but that you genuinely believe the result to be unreliable.
As I've stated to Toxin, I'm a little worried about going in there making demands, but I will. as for paying for anything, that's out of my hands. If I had it, I would absolutely!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenoxide
As previously stated in this thread the flipside of this coin is that confirmatory testing by GC/MS is pretty much bulletproof evidence. If the confirmatory test comes up positive for cocaine then you've removed almost all doubt that cocaine was truly present in the sample. In such a case they'll likely assume that you knew you'd consumed cocaine and were just being difficult, which may affect their attitude towards you going forward or possibly their course of action regarding the positive result.
I'm not too worried about the flip-side of the bullet proof. What could make cocaine show up in the system if I didn't do any? Unintentional ingestion? Liver/Kidney Disease or Diabetes as stated before? If the confirmatory test were to come up positive, it would just tell me that there's something causing it, other that I'm doing coke, because I'm not! I hate the crap, my GF hates it! Period! I know you guys believe it, why would I come on here and bullshit like this right? So, I think a confirmed positive would just narrow down whatever the problem is. I feel I have to figure it out either way because I never felt so helpless towards something and I'm worried like hell about it happening again out of my control! (Sorry about all the exclamation marks! lol)

I'm just going to stay adamant about my innocence and just hope they believe me either way, I want to salvage whatever's left of my reputation. As for the THC, they're not strict about it. My Dr always asked me about it and I always admitted to him about my consumption, which is very very little. This is part of the reason I felt it's impossible I'd smoked weed laced with coke, as I thought I'd feel it, and especially my GF who is a 15 year coke addict, except for the past 4 years and who smokes a lot! I only smoke her weed and I'm SURE she would have felt weed laced with coke, however minute the amount.

Thanks very much for the input though. Much much appreciated!

************************************************** ***********************************

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jiki
So like toxin and yourself have seen it's presumptive only, there could be cocaine (more like benzoylecgonine) in the urine, there could be "asparagus juice", without the GC/MS results the subject shouldn't be punished.
I know right? I don't understand why he was so quick to punish someone who has obviously been good since starting the program over a year ago? What's in it for them for punishing a presumptive result? It doesn't make much sense. I understand they're under the microscope from their opponents, but that's not exactly following policy towards their patients is it? The head pharmacist told me they HAD to punish me or they might get in trouble for not. That goes both ways though right? They COULD get in trouble for punishing me without due process if I could lawyer up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Jiki
The GC/MS test will be able to tell the exact level of cocaine, metabolite or nothing that was in the urine sample. If the confirmation cutoff was say 100 ng/ml and the sample was say 35 ng/ml, to me and to my lab that is negative and we report it as such. As you can see other labs might have the option of reporting it as positive-below cutoff.
From what I understand, you're telling me this test result could be a positive result, but still below the cut off level, and a confirmation test would have to have been done to find out if it was above cutoff? If this was the case wouldn't the know this was the case? If not then he REALLY need to review the whole process I think. If this is the case and the Dr knows this and still decided to punish me, then I would think it's even more absurd than before! That would make me believe he really really wanted to punish someone, or me specifically for some reason, and just decided to go with it and hope I'd just buckle I guess. I don't think I'll ever find out what their intention were though.

Thanks again for the input Jiki. Appreciated!

Sincerely,
Drey
  #13  
Old 27-10-2011, 00:00
z A H A s z A H A s is offline
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Re: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

How long ago did you have the false positive? What should have happened as soon as you said that it was wrong was to have it sent to a lab and then there could be no question of your innocence.
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Old 27-10-2011, 23:36
6Sh00t3r 6Sh00t3r is offline
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Re: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by z A H A s View Post
How long ago did you have the false positive? What should have happened as soon as you said that it was wrong was to have it sent to a lab and then there could be no question of your innocence.

Like to add to the quote :

As soon as anyone has a false positive they should have a doctor order a complete drug screen.
The bad thing about a cocaine false positive is it only stays in the system a very short while,( around 3-4 days with little use used on a Friday for example after ' classes ' hoping it clears out by Sunday or Monday morning to midday at the latest any way used very sparing ).

I once got a false positive for hydrophone ,( Dilaudid) because I was prescribed morphine & hydrocodone.The combination of the two gave the false. I was upset because the doctor was going to discharge me and the test was done that day.So I immediately left ,then went to my doctor across the street and told him what happened and ask for a total blood screening of all drugs.I showed up for only the drugs I was prescribed and in levels I should have in me.I didn`t get the results back for three days but it was enough for me when I took it back to the doctor that discharged me to apologize to me and ASK if I would consider coming back.It was the closest pain clinic for miles and miles so I had no choice really.

That is what worked for me.
If it happens again do what I did and make them not only clear your record but sue them for defamation of character if they do not because they will know you were clean of the cocaine so the case would win for you.

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Last edited by 6Sh00t3r; 27-10-2011 at 23:37. Reason: misspelled a word
  #15  
Old 29-05-2014, 18:13
stryder09 stryder09 is offline
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Re: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

This is why a confirmatory test is needed for any presumptive positive from a screening analysis. The typical immunoassay is ripe with the potential for cross-reacting substances and false positives. A properly validated chromatographic/mass spectrometric method is not.
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Old 30-05-2014, 19:47
t-girl t-girl is offline
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Re: False Positive for Cocaine!? Is Vindication Possible?

"And "cocaine is cocaine -- you don’t get many false positives or false negatives," says Petros Levounis, MD, director of the Addiction Institute of New York at St. Luke's and Roosevelt Hospital in New York City."- WebMD (pretty damn reliable source, according to the FDA)
First off, hopefully someone can explain accidental ingestion" to me. I am a gram a day user and I know where every flake is at any given time. How would some random coke, which someone just happens to be missing, which happened to be accidentally ingested into one's stomach right before the test. I'm saturated with coke and passed after 72 hours clean so the ingestion would have taken place very close to testing time.
Bottom line is they will either grant you a new test or they won't. I think leniency will be less, as it a clinic and they probably see a lot of "false" positives. Unfortunately they hold the power (companies can dance around rules and find loopholes all day long). If they don't grant you another and it's worth it to you, get a lawyer.

t-girl added 1 Minutes and 30 Seconds later...

Not at ALL being snotty or disrespectful just trying to understand something which doesn't seem possible. NOT calling you a liar, just don't get the laws of physics on this one

Last edited by t-girl; 30-05-2014 at 19:47. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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