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  #1  
Old 23-07-2011, 01:59
jade2010 jade2010 is offline
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What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

I have a friend who became addicted to oxycodone after a car accident. After being hooked for a year, she was cut off by her doctor (in pain management) but after slowly tapering off oxy, she still couldn't stop obsessing about the opiate high. So she switched to heroin.

Or so she thought... Now she is still addicted and trying to get in a suboxone program, but the test keeps coming up negative for opiates?

She is using what looks like heroin, it produces euphoria and drowsiness and intense craving for more. She has spent way too much money on this substance! her life is a train wreck... However, the only drug that comes up on the drug screen is benzos!

Is it possible that the dealer is selling her some sort of benzodiazepine and now she is addicted to that and not heroin? Is this common? I never heard of it before.
  #2  
Old 23-07-2011, 02:41
psyche psyche is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

I remember reading mentions about heroin laced with benzodiazepines, but not as benzos being sold as heroin.

That seems to be the case for you.
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Old 23-07-2011, 02:51
jade2010 jade2010 is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

Is there any other reason the opiate would come up negative in the test? Are there any substances that are similar to opiates but don't show up?
  #4  
Old 23-07-2011, 02:54
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

Perhaps your friend could have the actual substance tested? Anything short of that would just be speculation.
  #5  
Old 23-07-2011, 02:56
psyche psyche is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

There is mitragynine and related alkaloids from Kratom. Is Tramadol chemically an opiate? Opiate RC's tend all to have structure similar to medical opioids, right?
  #6  
Old 23-07-2011, 02:59
jade2010 jade2010 is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

How could my friend have it tested?

jade2010 added 1 Minutes and 59 Seconds later...

I did wonder about Tramadol, or possibly ibogaine. The substance produces a very similar effect to oxycodone. my friend's craving is way beyond the placebo effect, she is spending her food money on this substance.

Last edited by jade2010; 23-07-2011 at 02:59. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #7  
Old 23-07-2011, 03:03
psyche psyche is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

o-desmethyltramadol(to which tramadol is metabolized, and which is the actual active form of tramadol(tramadol by itself has only 1 to thousads activity related to morphine)) is a possibility, as is 7-hydroxy-mitragynine, which seems to be at the new posts: https://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=13242.

It's still all speculation until it is tested by, for example, EZ Drug Test kit(google).
  #8  
Old 23-07-2011, 03:09
jade2010 jade2010 is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

Thanks, she also has a prescription for Valium, but this substance produces an entirely different effect.

Testing is probably the way to go...
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Old 23-07-2011, 03:22
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

Ibogaine causes hallucinations; & is actually quite usualy for treating heroin addiction, although it'd illegal in usa. the countries like mexico, etc use.... so it can't be that.


When does she take the texts? What kind of tests? Is it possible she metabolizes it really quickly, anybody??
  #10  
Old 23-07-2011, 03:22
psyche psyche is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

Testing would be useful. Would you let us know if you do it?

Valium can easily explain the benzo-positive, as it has a very long half-life, 36 hours or something alike. It means that traces of benzodiazepines can be detected well over week, maybe two.

Quote:
Is it possible she metabolizes it really quickly, anybody??
Seems very unlikely. How shortly after use was she tested?

It depends what metabolites are tested. Heroin(diasetylmorphine) metabolises into morphine. If it is the direct metabolite of morphine that is measured in urine and the enzyme metabolizing to that (some isozyme of cytochrome p-450 -enzyme family) is much faster than normal, then she would notice a shorter high than usual.
  #11  
Old 23-07-2011, 03:26
jade2010 jade2010 is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

I did wonder if I metabolized very quickly.

jade2010 added 2 Minutes and 36 Seconds later...

Well, yes, the Valium script would cause the benzo positive, though she usually takes Valium for 1 or 2 weeks and then goes off for a couple of weeks. The prescription is 5 mg a day, 30 a month... Is this high enough to obtain a positive for benzodiazepines, given that she wouldn't have had any for a couple of weeks prior to the test? I know it has a long half life and can be detected for 6 weeks, but thought that was primarily when given in higher doses.

Last edited by jade2010; 23-07-2011 at 03:26. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #12  
Old 23-07-2011, 03:30
psyche psyche is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

^^ The blood concentration cumulates easily with low dosages too, as long as the use is constant. Remember, if you keep using, your body can't metabolise as fast, and you gain more and more diazepam in blood.
  #13  
Old 23-07-2011, 03:32
jade2010 jade2010 is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

Quote:
Seems very unlikely. How shortly after use was she tested?
12 hours after last use.

Quote:
If it is the direct metabolite of morphine that is measured in urine and the enzyme metabolizing to that (some isozyme of cytochrome p-450 -enzyme family) is much faster than normal, then she would notice a shorter high than usual.
Her highs in general were shorter than average, especially on oxycodone. She would take Valium to fall asleep because the oxy would wear off at around the 4 hour mark.

jade2010 added 0 Minutes and 55 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by psyche View Post
^^ The blood concentration cumulates easily with low dosages too, as long as the use is constant. Remember, if you keep using, your body can't metabolise as fast, and you gain more and more diazepam in blood.
That's true.

Last edited by jade2010; 23-07-2011 at 03:32. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #14  
Old 23-07-2011, 03:34
psyche psyche is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

Quote:
Her highs in general were shorter than average, especially on oxycodone. She would take Valium to fall asleep because the oxy would wear off at around the 4 hour mark.
That's about normal duration for oxycodone. 12 hours seems like a pretty sure positive if it was actually heroin.
  #15  
Old 23-07-2011, 03:42
jade2010 jade2010 is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

Quote:
Originally Posted by psyche View Post
That's about normal duration for oxycodone. 12 hours seems like a pretty sure positive if it was actually heroin.
I know, I thought it would surely test positive at 12 hours.

Subjective feelings on the drug were very similar to oxycodone or hydrocodone.
  #16  
Old 23-07-2011, 14:16
urkuh urkuh is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

What kind of test? Urine, blood, hair?
  #17  
Old 23-07-2011, 14:20
jade2010 jade2010 is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

Urine and blood.

It's worth mentioning that this was after using the stuff that she picked up at the middle man's house, after he supposedly saw his supplier the night before.

So yeah, the guy who picks up for her is an addict and probably stole some of it or tampered with it.

But that still doesn't explain what was in the stuff, if it wasn't heroin, since she was high for hours.
  #18  
Old 23-07-2011, 17:03
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

1, try another dealer if possible.

2. what color is it? is it being snorted? injected? if injected, what color does it turn when the water is added?

3. how intense is the rush? how long does the high last, and how long until she starts getting serious symptoms of withdrawal?

So, it's possible there test being done is just for 'opiates', which tends to be a test for morphine (codeine & heroin show up in this as well, since it metabolises into morphine). There's a specific test for Heroin as well (it looks for 6-MAM), but that only works for 6-12 hours; after that the 6-MAM metabolite is gone & just the morphine is left.

There's a chance it's Fentanyl being sold as Heroin; if this were the case, it probably wouldn't show up on a typical opiate test and the dose needed is so small it might very well not show up on most standard urine tests. It could be something like hydromorphone or oxymorphone, but that doesn't really make sense, since the dealer could surely make more money selling the hydromorphone (Dilaudid) or oxymorphone (Opana) as is, instead of fronting it as Heroin. Suboxone/Subutex wouldn't show up on a test unless specifically looked for, but she would have gotten pretty sick when she first took it if she were still addicted/dependent upon oxycodone at the time...

Those would be my best guesses, & I won't take that any further since speculation of a substance one can't even see doesn't really go anywhere. Getting it tested really is the only way she'll know.

Do you know if they sent either the urine or blood screens out for a GC/MS test? Basically, the follow-up test? Usually that can tell you what *IS* in the system; any chemicals/whatevers that are in the urine/blood will show up as a spike on the graph, and each spike happens at a particular time, a time that's different for every chemical substance. So knowing what time this spike occurs tells the technician what the active substance is. She could find out what she's been ingesting in that manner; getting the substance itself tested might be expensive (money junkies don't normally have. )

Very tricky, very tricky.

Heh, my ex-boyfriend went to detox on a Monday; we got high on Heroin once on Friday, twice on Saturday & once on Sunday. We were drinking stupid amounts of beer during the weekend as well. When tested @ the detox Monday morning, he showed no opioids in his system at all! Thankfully, he was going to detox for both Heroin & alcohol and was looking to do a clonidine & Librium detox for the dope anyway - which is basically the same protocol they give for alcohol. So even though they couldn't treat his Heroin addiction, by treating the alcohol addiction he was still reasonably comfortable. Heh.

Anyway, it does happen. But to have multiple tests (& multiple kinds of tests) show negative...THAT'S unusual.

~Kailey

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For someone finally asking what it looked like and how it was taken. Thankfully you were around to ask the right questions.
Great post, the whole time im thinking Fentanyl as well.
  #19  
Old 23-07-2011, 17:33
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

She's definitely looking for another dealer, yeah... Well, actually, she is trying to go on suboxone, but the negative opiate screen has thrown a kink in the plan.

Substance is a tan powder, snorted.

When she started using with these people, she was still sick from oxy withdrawal and the drug did take away the sickness. The high would last a few hours.

She got in a pattern where she was using three days, then would be sick for three days, then start again.

The withdrawal at first looked like the typical opiate withdrawal - chills, constant yawning, intestinal distress. This went on for about 6 weeks.

It is possible that she started out using heroin, then detoxed physically due to the days of abstinence, and at some point the dealer started selling her something else, possibly benzos or tramadol?

I know the guy she buys from does have a script for tramadol, since he is always trying to sell those as well as a package deal.

At a certain point, around the time she began using mostly on weekends, the withdrawal symptoms also changed - not so much a physical withdrawal, but intense anxiety, panic attacks, and intense almost suicidal depression. Somehow, craving for this drug (whatever it is) actually increased after using it only on the weekend.

Because of trying to get into the suboxone program, the doctors have ordered it sent out for further testing, along with tests of liver and thyroid function.

Her doctor feels this is not placebo effect - that she is actually addicted to this drug, but apparently no one knows what it is.

Fentanyl is a possibility, as the supplier has been known for having unusually strong stuff that wasn't cut at all. tIt provided a more intense high for people with a high tolerance. Though there are also suspicions lately that the driver has been altering or stealing it.
  #20  
Old 23-07-2011, 17:51
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

Interesting. Tan powder sounds correct for Heroin in most of the USA (West Coast Black Tar Heroin being the exception, of course). Hmm.

Very curious. I'm very interested in knowing what the test results are; please make sure to come back & let us know!!

All the best, and I hope your friend can get on Suboxone soon!!

~Kailey
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Old 23-07-2011, 17:58
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

Yeah, it looks like the same tan/light brown powder that she has used, though the taste and potency have differed the past few months. But it has that bitter taste.

(well, the most recent batch seems to be something completely different - a benzo? a sedative? it just knocked her out cold the first night - but that is another story for another day )

I will definitely report the results... I hope she can get on suboxone. Of course, this makes the medical profession think she is not really an opiate addict, and has also made them pay more attention to the benzo addiction, so who knows what the future may hold in terms of suboxone.

Of course, who would compulsively be buying what they think is heroin if not an opiate addict, am I right? I feel that going back to the dealer who is robbing you only serves to prove the addiction... But you know, the medical community...
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Old 25-07-2011, 06:12
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

Update: the most recent test was also negative for opiates but positive for benzodiazepines. Suboxone program may not be an option at this point, though she has an appointment with the doctor in 2 weeks.

In the meantime, she will be looking for another dealer...
  #23  
Old 25-07-2011, 20:25
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

Well...if there's no opiates in her system, she may very well NOT be dependent upon opiates. Not to state the obvious or anything.

Has she tried just *not* picking up? Maybe taking some extra benzos to try to relax?

I wonder how much *IS* psychological; I know when I have the EXACT same medications they'd give me in a detox, in the EXACT same amount & on the same schedule, I still feel sick if I'm trying to detox at home. When I'm in a facility and have no reasonably easy way to get the Heroin, I'm pretty damn comfortable. Maybe the anticipation of being sick is causing her to generate sick symptoms?

This isn't to say "you're making it up" or "it's all in your head", but our minds have a great capacity to heal or hinder ourselves.

I'm dying to know exactly what is being ingested!! It's so fucked up that the tests keep coming back negative!!! Did they mention which benzos were showing up? I know they send my ex-husband's urine screens out for further testing, and they tell him not only that he came up positive for benzos (he has a Xanax 'script, so he's supposed to), they'll tell him they found Xanax, Valium & Klonopin. So, they obviously have the ability to distinguish which are which...just curious if the benzo(s) coming up are the ones being prescribed, or is another one showing up, which might be able to tell her if they've been slipped into her bags...

~Kailey

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Old 25-07-2011, 20:51
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

Buy the eztest. It tests for opiates
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Old 25-07-2011, 23:21
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Re: What do you mean, the test was negative for opiates??

Quote:
Originally Posted by kailey_elise View Post
Well...if there's no opiates in her system, she may very well NOT be dependent upon opiates. Not to state the obvious or anything.
Well, yes, at this point I don't think she is. She was before and had the intake for the suboxone program back in April. She had been in withdrawal for maybe 4 days? And the test was negative then, but that is because she ran out of the oxy script early and didn't go out and buy oxy illegally in the few days before the intake.

She probably should have just gone on suboxone at that time, but it involved taking a leave of absence from work and it just seemed too overwhelming to deal with.

But finally she was so desperate, feeling sick and crazy and spending all this money on drugs that she changed her mind and decided to go to this suboxone program. Only to find out, like just last week, that all the tests are negative for opiates.

At this point, I think the withdrawal symptoms are from the benzos.

Yes, she has tried several times to take extra benzos to relax, which has lead to the script repeatedly running out early. And now to her buying Valium on the street... If she is somehow buying benzos instead of heroin (which would be weird anyway, but who knows) this would mean that at this point she is actually dependent on benzodiazepines.

Quote:
Maybe the anticipation of being sick is causing her to generate sick symptoms?
I do think that is a big part of it, that she went straight from oxy to using heroin with these people. I think it was heroin at first, since it stopped the oxy withdrawal symptoms and she got sick for a few days when she ran out.

It's possible that the dealer, or whoever, did at at certain point substitute whatever, and she was just so accustomed to the fear of running out and being sick that she just assumed it would happen.

She actually would get sick, but at a certain point, the symptoms did seem more like a benzo withdrawal, with intense anxiety, heart racing etc.

I know, I am dying to know what is actually being ingested! She emailed the doctor to ask if the test could distinguish between benzos. She has a script for Valium, but it is possible they are selling some other intense benzodiazepine drug, e.g. Halcion, and that is what is leading to the agitation, anxiety, general feeling of insanity.

She actually asked the drug middleman if it was cut with Fentanyl. He had to ask his gf, who used to be a vet, and she said, yes, so far as she knows, it is cut with raw Fentanyl but they do not know what else.

Also asked the doctor if Fentanyl was tested for, but haven't heard back yet.

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benzodiazepine addiction, heroin, heroin addiction, heroin purity, oxycodone addiction, tar heroin

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