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  #1  
Old 18-07-2011, 09:57
Nuthatch Nuthatch is offline
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Shooting Dilaudid IM

Nickie, my sis, has been taking Dilaudid orally on and off for the last 3 years for pain. She was introduced to the drug by her hubby who convinced her to crush and snort, and over time, she developed chest pain, so he suggested the IM route and she fell in love with it about 6 mos ago. Her hubby is now in prison and she has questions she can't ask because their convos on the prison phone are being monitored and possibly recorded. Hopefully I'll get some advice and questions answered that I can pass on, because she suffers from panic disorder, and he's always been like a teacher to her, and she feels so lost without him.

Her addiction is getting worse, especially now that he's away. Her upper arms are becoming black and blue, slightly hard and getting painful, and she's wondering if there's a safe area to hit in her legs, or any other areas, and if so, where? She's scared to death that she'll end up hitting a vein, artery, or something that could kill her faster than the drug itself, so any advice on that would be greatly appreciated!

Also, her tolerance is really going up, of course. I don't know if it's in her head or not, but within 4.5 hours, she needs to shoot, or she breaks out in a sweat, becomes shaky, sometimes nauseous to even throwing up. She's currently taking 10mgs every 3-4 hours, and the highest she's gone was 14mgs, and I see going there soon, but I also know she's afraid of that dose. Of course she knows that doing it AT ALL is dangerous, but she seems to think that the more you do, the more you're at risk for death, even if your tolerance is that high (just from too much drug powder going into your system). True? What could happen?

And lastly, does anyone believe or has tried taking an upper such as Adderall or Dexadrine, in fear they've done too much, and it's possibly pulled you out of OD'ing, or the respiratory depression?

If you got this far, I really appreciate it, and thank you for you time!

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thanks for posting this and adding info about your struggles with this very specific addiction situation, could be very valuable to future addicts looking for info similar to your situation
  #2  
Old 18-07-2011, 10:29
Herbs&Hopes Herbs&Hopes is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

First off, welcome to the forums here at DF. I hope you find the information you are looking for and you can find some remedy/assistance to your circumstance.

Do you have legitimate pain to manage apart from the symptoms of withdrawal you say become apparent after only 4.5 hours now? If you continue increasing your dosage without making any attempts to manage your tolerance, you are eventually going to reach a stage where you are withdrawing while you are high, right after your shot. Countless heroin addicts have reached this stage without even realizing that tolerance is completely manageable. If you have real chronic pain from an injury or conidition, you need to get on a multi-modal aproach where you have adjuvant pain relievers to assist the action of the dilaudid. With these other supporting meds one is able to manage their tolerance by initiating breaks from the narcotic medication say, 3 days off every 8-10 days on, or one week off for every three weeks on. See how that works? Enrollment in a chronic pain clinic is a must if you have legitimate pain, otherwise I would recommend some sort of maintenance therapy and arranging some supporting meds to aid you through a period of controlled withdrawal. Keep in mind to adjust for reduction of tolerance after the break.
  #3  
Old 18-07-2011, 11:26
Nuthatch Nuthatch is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

Thanks for the warm welcome, Herbs&Hopes!

She says it's only the symptoms of withdraw that I listed, but I forgot to mention the runny nose as well. It's probably not a big deal, just thought I'd mention it. Now, let's say she runs out of Dilaudid, she has Percocet and Methadone to fall back on. And I now remember her hubby saying your exact words or very close: 3 days off every 8-10 days on, or one week off for every three weeks on. Thanks for the reminder! The legitimate pain is still being taken care of when she feels these withdrawal symptoms, so does that mean it could be in her head? Gahhh!

About 9pm on Friday, all lighters went to sh*t and she didn't even have a match to light a candle, so she couldn't shoot. She couldn't leave the house to buy a lighter (long story) until the afternoon of the next day, so she took the Percocet (10mgs). She also wanted to try a little break, even though it angered her. Well, she only took two at a time, but found herself popping two every two hours because she kept waking up. I'm guessing she's taking too much or too little and that's why she can't sleep?

Also, my sis has been down the pain clinic route, and she'd much rather see her PCP who gives her the Percs. All Dilaudid is her hubby's. She has suffered over 25 years, and has gotten so tired of talking about her disabling illnesses, that all she wants to do is medicate. There's no cure and its gotten worse, and that would mean leaving the house several times a week to go to the clinic. She wouldn't do it. It would be too much on her.
  #4  
Old 30-07-2011, 03:37
Spoonbender420 Spoonbender420 is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

For IM most any muscle mass in the thigh will work just aim for the middle of a large muscle and you should be fine not to worry

Tell her not to worry about hitting a vein that will give her a MUCH better effect the rush from IVing hydromorphone is one of the strongest of any opiate how ever an artery would be bad to hit though it will produce un pleasure able side effects like swelling, burning and hot tingleing sensations and can clog your circulatory system the same as IV use

I would also agree that for pain adding a longer acting opiate should be done as hydromorphone has a very short half life around 4-6 hours

Amphetamines can be used to counter the effects of taking a little to much like with over nodding or if breathing rate becomes to slow but for an over dose where the person is unconcious and not breathing amphetamines will NOT work at that point naloxone or another opiate antagonist is needed

Last edited by Spoonbender420; 30-07-2011 at 03:44.
  #5  
Old 19-09-2011, 22:47
theSWPK theSWPK is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

I agree with spoonbender, top of the thigh is the best location.
I once read that IM'ing in that spot, about four inches from the knee, causes the least discomfort because its an area of muscle the doesn't get used as much as other sites.
Another thing, DO NOT heat dilaudid, just use luke warm water. Heat destroys dilaudid - better to taste it than to waste it.

For the sake of harm reduction, your sister should look into buying some .20 or .22µm wheel filters and a 2mL luer lock syringe. This would greatly reduce her chances of infection and/or abscess. There are many posts around with more info on wheel filters.

Btw, does anyone know the bioavailability of hydromorphone IM? I've search across this forum and many like it as well as medical sources, but I cant find a figure for the life of me. My neighbor's ex father in law does not normally choose this route, but earlier today he ended up missing and IM'd on accident. He was curious about it.
  #6  
Old 19-09-2011, 23:33
coolhandluke coolhandluke is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

give this note to your sister.

if the dilaudid is your husbands and he's locked up how are you getting it still? just thought that seemed strange.

anyway i agree with the person who recommended wheel filters, pills contain binders and are not sterile and using them im is pretty bad for your muscles since it leaves behind some binders. you said your arms are becoming hard? that does not sound good at all. i would STRONGLY urge you to go and have this looked at by a doctor, to make sure they are not infected. it could just be scarring from constantly having needles poke them, but i would worry about an infection a lot, and think you should go to the doctor.

if you feel you are overdosing adding a stimulant into the mix is absolutely not good to do at all. this is just going to make things worse. having some naloxone around is the best thing to do. this is available at needle exchanges and is the same thing the hospital uses to reverse an overdose. it is used as am IM and in the event if you have to dose yourself or another with naloxone you should still call the paramedics because the naloxone only lasts so long.

i will link you to a thread with the dangers of shooting pills, even though your now shooting them IV using them IM will still have many of the same dangers.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28148

and also tips for dealing with overdoses

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84311

that thread is tips for dealing with heroin overdoses but it is exactly the same as overdosing on any other opiate.

continuing to use the dilaudid pills IM is going to be very rough on your body as you have all ready seen. most addicts use them IV so im not all that familiar with the specific dangers of IM use but i do know that it is not good for you at all.

also those symptoms you described which were wondering if they are from withdrawal are all classic withdrawal symptoms. shakes, sweats, and having your nose and eyes start to drain (runny nose) also if you pay attention your pupils probably dilate (get very big) and you will yawn a lot. so yea this means every 4 hours you start to begin to withdrawal. it doesn't sound like your really thinking about quitting or getting help but if you are there is a lot of resources on this site about that as well. be safe. if you want anymore info about anything ill be glad to help as much as i can. i would highly suggest getting some naloxone so if you do start to overdose or think you are, you can save you life. all the best and be safe.

EDIT:

this thread is two months old and the op has not posted since, theswpk, its a little pointless to bump it but oh well.

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Very helpful and thoughtful advice, not only by answering the OP, but also by linking info on the site to make it easier for the "newbie" user.

Last edited by coolhandluke; 19-09-2011 at 23:48.
  #7  
Old 20-09-2011, 05:03
Nuthatch Nuthatch is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolhandluke View Post
give this note to your sister.

if the dilaudid is your husbands and he's locked up how are you getting it still? just thought that seemed strange.
An easy phone call to the several doctors he goes to, she picks up the scripts, goes to different pharmacies and pays for them. Simple for her. The docs, nurses and pharmacies know her well.

No infections. Yet. Sigh.

Good recommendations about the needles exchanges and overdosing, thanks. I'll pass all this on to her and probably print out the links below. Much appreciated.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28148


http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84311


Quote:
Originally Posted by coolhandluke View Post
EDIT: this thread is two months old and the op has not posted since, theswpk, its a little pointless to bump it but oh well.
Nah, I'm always peeking in. I wanted to comment when there was more to comment on (trying to get all my answers as well, which I thought I added more to my original post and now realize I didn't. Argh!). Either way, I appreciate the responses, all. Thank you!
  #8  
Old 20-09-2011, 05:39
coolhandluke coolhandluke is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

glad to see your sister is still seeking more info, while using drugs being as healthy as possible is very much an ongoing process. anyway im very pleased to see she is still seeking information.

im very sorry to hear about her husband, i cant imagine how hard that would be to deal with.

has she looked into info about wheel filters at all? i also saw you said she was getting percocet, tell her to never inject those because of the acetaminophen (tylenol) contained in them, just something i though id add.

also was she able to switch injection sites? have her arms heeled up well if so. what is that situation. this thread can help her, but can also help many other people in her situation which is why i am asking for a little more info. as much info as she can give can and will help many other people in the future. its what this site is about, your sister has gotten information and she could help others by giving more info about her situation.

anyway i am glad to hear she is still around and doing well, hope she still sticks around and gives us some info about her switching IM sites and if her arms healed after. valuable info!

coolhandluke added 4 Minutes and 0 Seconds later...

also let her know if her situation changes and she cant get the dilaudid anymore, many people here can suggest how she can continue from there. including a detox, or a maintenance program like soboxone or methadone. just a thought. all the best.

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Very caring response - you clearly want to help others and that's what this forum is about !

Last edited by coolhandluke; 20-09-2011 at 05:39. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #9  
Old 03-10-2011, 07:13
Nuthatch Nuthatch is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

16mgs every 3-4 hours now. Wants life back. Bad ticker. Been in the hospital three times in 4 weeks for the heart condition and believes it's getting worse due to the high doses. No more Methadone because it interacts with another drug she takes for her heart, and if she ignores it and takes it anyway, she could get torsade de pointes. I don't know what I can link here, but I highly suggest those concerned about heart health, to look up "torsade de pointes". Or it could cause Sudden death. (in her case)

Hubby is out of jail after going to rehab as well, and he really thought he was gonna stick it out, but failed the very first night of coming home. This isn't good. They need to be a team, and he seems to think that she'll be able to stay straight with him in the house doing it. He says, "If you can't stay straight, that's because you're giving power to the drug." *eyeroll* Uh, wha??? The f'n cravings are like a hunger. Being starved for food! He knows this! Nothing like watching someone else get off when trying to stay clean. Yeah, sure, right. And separate? Impossible.

Coolhandluke or anyone who's reading this, have any suggestions on how to wean off this high of dose? I guess doing it orally (with Dillies) is out of the question? We already know Methadone is....but what about Suboxone (sp?)? I heard it puts you immediately into withdrawals, true? Doesn't make sense. I thought the purpose of weaning and taking the Dones was to make it as painless as possible, so I was thinking that these Subby's would be the same? Percocet is gone and she wont be getting any until after the 15th. About 30-40 Dillies left.

I'll be back to answer those questions, Coolhandluke. Promise. I just had to get this emergency off my chest, and I'm hoping for some quick help/advice/ideas. Gotta get some Zzz's. Thanks for reading if you got this far. Much love to all!
  #10  
Old 03-10-2011, 07:54
coolhandluke coolhandluke is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

soboxone will put you into withdrawals if you take it while you have opaites in your system/brains receptors. so you need to wait until you are in mild to mid withdrawal until beginning to take soboxone. you are in a good situation because dilaudid is extremely short acting and will get out of your opiate receptors quickly. what medicine are you on that methadone interacts with, and why does it not interact with dilaudid or soboxone, but does with methadone? unless its a specific reaction aside from respiratory depression, i wouldn't see why any other opiate would interact less than methadone, but im no doctor so maybe you could seek a second opinion from another doctor. soboxone would be a good option. you will not go into withdrawal if you take it after you have started to go into withdrawal, big pupils, draining nose/eyes, yawning, shakes is enough to know your good to take it for most opiates, especially short acting ones like dilaudid.

so happy to hear your husband is free and going to rehab. you need to get yourself in order as well so you two can start over and have a healthy relationship together.

will be sure too check in on this thread.

all the best, cool hand luke.

coolhandluke added 13 Minutes and 31 Seconds later...

im not very familiar with dilaudid withdrawal but from the symptoms you describe, id say waiting about 18-24 hours would be enough for you to take soboxone safely. the doctor you get the soboxone from may be more educated or someone on this forum may chime in. most addicts do not have the access to a big supply of dilaudid like you do so you specific addiction is not all that common. all opiate addiction is pretty much the same beast, but from substance to substance the withdrawal times and symptoms vary.

Last edited by coolhandluke; 03-10-2011 at 07:54. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #11  
Old 03-10-2011, 13:23
southern girl southern girl is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

Please send this note to your sister from my friend Peaches:

Wow honey. I dont have much advice to give as Ive never used hydromorphone and have never injected, but I am a chronic pain patient who is prescribed oxycodone and who has had/still has addiction and abuse problems. So although I cannot give you advice, coolhandluke seems to be taking very good care of you on that front; I can offer you my support aswell.

Without a kicking a man when he's down and to be negative, but your husband needs to try taking his own "advice". If it was so easy he wouldnt have relapsed his first night back out of rehab. And no, its not easy or fair for someone, especially a lover, to use infront of you when you are trying to stay clean. I would say its damn near impossible to stay clean during those circumstances and unfortunately thats the really tough part about being a part of a using couple. How do you think he would fare trying to get/stay clean while you were using infront of him? Or do you think he would say that he was just weak? Maybe just "giving into the power of the drug"? And I really love your analogy about cravings being like a hunger. Unfortunately its a hunger that you will never be able to satisfy; an insatiable hunger that will only keep your appetite growing.

I should really say something positive about your relationship. I guess it could work both ways and you both could support each other if both of you are determined to get and stay clean. You both would understand exactly what each other was/is going through during withdrawal and PAWS. Im sorry, I guess since I was a part of a cocaine using couple many years ago, that experience has jaded me. When one wanted to use, the other wanted to be clean. When the time came and there was an "incident" that forced one to say "enough is enough either we BOTH quit or Im gone" the other started using behind the other one's back so I had no choice but to leave. I found out I was pregnant and the next day I we got evicted from our apart because someone spent $800 that was suppose to be for our rent on cocaine. Bad times. I chose my daughter. Best decision I ever made. I didnt even have to think about it. It was automatic. Sorry, that was very off topic. Our situations are very different. Honestly I didnt love that man and its very obvious you are very much in love. Not only that...but in my opinion anyway, opiate/opioid addiction is a whole other beast. Im not saying cocaine/stimulant addiction is a walk in the park, because it aint. But in my opinion and experience, cocaine addiction is like a tropical storm where as opiate addiction is like a hurricane- Hurricane Katrina infact.

Anyway. I apologize, my post morphed into something very off-topic and that was not my intention. My intention was to offer you some support and I hoped that came through on some level. I think you and your husband should perhaps sit down and have a conversation and decide if you both *want* to be/get clean together or not. Whatever you decide, I think it needs to be a joint decision. As a couple who use together, you either have to decide to continue to use together or be clean together. If you both decide to continue to use than I think you should go with the advice at the beginning of yor thread about stabilizing your habits. You've already said your tolerance and growing and your dose has already crept up from 10mg at the beginning of the thread to 16mgs now.

Anyway, good luck and please continue to keep us updated. I hope some of this may have helped somewhat.

SG.xxx
  #12  
Old 03-10-2011, 21:13
Nuthatch Nuthatch is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

There's some misunderstandings that I'd like to clear up. First, to coolhandluke, this "torsade de pointes" with the Methadone must sound crazy as it did to me because I was told that I can take Percocet and not Methadone. I had the same questions as you did because they're both opiates, so what's the big deal, right? When I popped on early morn and posted, I forgot to say that taking Methadone alone can do the same to you, so it's not just taking the two drugs together, but when you do, it increases the risks bigtime.

Taken from thefreedictionary online: tor·sade de pointes (tôr-säd d pwt) n. Paroxysms of ventricular tachycardia in which the electrocardiogram shows a steady undulation in the QRS axis in runs of 5 to 20 beats and with progressive changes in direction. torsade de pointes French, torsade–twist, Cardiology A form of polymorphic ventricular tachycardia with prolonged Q-T intervals initiated by a premature ventricular depolarization striking near the apex of a delayed T wave; torsades have irregular rates of 200-250/min with marked variability in amplitude and direction of a QRS wave that seems to twist around an isoelectric baseline; torsades may spontaneously resolve or evolve to ventricular tachyarrhythmia and may be nonspecific or due to drugs–eg, adrenergics, antihistamine, phenothiazine, procainamide, quinines, sotalol, and tricyclic antidepressants, electrolyte imbalance–eg, hypokalemia, hypomagnesemia, CNS hemorrhage or trauma, long Q-T wave syndrome, liquid diet, and underlying heart disease Management Isoproterenol.

With that being said, having these arrhythmia's can cause you to have a stroke, heart attack, or they can instantly kill you, but having torsade de points alone, I believe is worse than having just any arrhythmia (I'm guessing on that one). Now, put them both together and you're in double trouble. This information was originally found on the web when making sure all meds didn't interact once the Methadone was prescribed. Pharmacies screw up and don't always check to see if an interaction is gonna happen, and THIS pharmacy really screwed up! Nickie already has a heart condition, so again, double trouble. She could have died from taking the Dones, and my apologies, but I can't remember why she can take the Percs and Dillies and not the Dones. I've been looking all over the web for the answer and I'm unable to find it, but I do believe it has something to do with the QT interval with the Dones when it doesn't happen with the Percs and Dillies. As far as getting a second opinion, there were a lot more opinions than that. LOL! This is scary stuff! Many phone calls were made and much bitchin' was done, believe me! All the above wasn't easy to explain, but I hope I helped out somewhat.

About the hubby, he's ALREADY home which leads me to say HI SG! and thanks so much for popping in with your advice as well. I want you to know that amazingly so, for over 20 years, Nickie has been trying to save this man from addiction, but you all know how that works. What happened was the fact that Nickie's illness got the best of her, and after all those years of HIS addiction, and him always pushing drugs on her to take away the pain, she finally tried Dillies (orally). She was always against it because she was afraid of getting addicted as well because she already had that type of personality. Well, it didn't take long....and now she feels SO incredibly stuck. Today, she feels torn. The hubby, the drugs, her pain level, the confusion, the pressure...almost peer pressure.

SG, she didn't use in front of him. Nickie wanted this life for him for so long, and was really under the impression that he wanted to stay straight (as he was when they first got married for a brief period), and boy was Nickie wrong. He kept pounding on the bathroom door each time she went in, and he wasn't convinced that she was just going to the bathroom. Nickie was going as fast as she could to get her fix and get out of there, but he kept at it, and she eventually opened the door and said, "Ya happy now?" Sigh. "Yup, now give me some." The Dillies that she was doing were his anyway, so as much as she wanted to say "NO!", she couldn't. And he can sometimes get abusive, so she gave in. He went from 2mgs to 4mgs in a matter of hours, and he's starting to get frustrated with that dose, so I'm sure it's gonna get worse real soon. The guilt.

And yes, you did a great job in giving me support, and I very much appreciate it! Nickie's already been at 14mgs so 16mgs is really nothing, but it's getting a bit scary for her. Now that the hubby's home and she wants to wean, the drugs are going fast, and she doesn't know where to turn, where to get more, or even if she CAN do it. Coolhandluke or SG, how does Nickie go about getting Suboxone? Does she have to admit to her doctor that she's an addict? Does it help with pain? I'll also check out the other forums and do some research and reading on the web about it as well.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhandluke
has she looked into info about wheel filters at all? i also saw you said she was getting percocet, tell her to never inject those because of the acetaminophen (tylenol) contained in them, just something i though id add.
Nah, she'd never inject the Percs. Hell, she probably does more damage by popping over 20 a day when she gets her script. The difference in pain management....from Dillies to Percs, what a struggle! The wheel filters were never heard of, but she did check them out on Google. Weird looking things. She probably won't use them, in fear of breaking the needle. Good advice, though. She just wants to keep things simple and change isn't easy for her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhandluke
also was she able to switch injection sites? have her arms heeled up well if so. what is that situation. this thread can help her, but can also help many other people in her situation which is why i am asking for a little more info. as much info as she can give can and will help many other people in the future. its what this site is about, your sister has gotten information and she could help others by giving more info about her situation.
She didn't switch injection sites, although she should have. Again, change isn't easy, but she really wanted to, but fear got in the way. What if this happens? What if that happens? You know? Her arms did heal (some) as she took a two week break, and she believes it all happened because she was using the same syringe for days or longer and it was most likely barbed. Nickie was too afraid to buy syringes at the Pharmacy but finally got the guts, and boy, what a HUGE difference!








Last edited by Nuthatch; 05-10-2011 at 04:15.
  #13  
Old 10-10-2011, 05:19
theSWPK theSWPK is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

Depending on what state you live on, you may be able to buy several packs of syringes at one time. If they ask, its because youre going on a trip and need to stock up. Buying in bulk reduces times between buying which would reduce anxiety. Having a good supply of new syringes makes it alot easier to throw them away after each use rather than worrying about running out. You may want to look into ordering them online. You can find 100 ct bags for under $20
  #14  
Old 10-10-2011, 05:35
coolhandluke coolhandluke is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

in some cases soboxone is prescribed for pain, but its not very common. you would have to go to a specialist psychiatrist who has the right licensees to keep an addict on soboxone. from there you would go through counseling and things like that.
  #15  
Old 10-10-2011, 08:30
catseye Gold member catseye is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

Hi there,

I just wanted to encourage you to try the wheel filter if injecting tablets is on the cards - the risks of shooting tablets are high, and those filters really do make a difference. Also, as theSWPK said, perhaps looking into ordering your supplies online might be an option? Re-using needles is a Bad Idea as you obviously know...it will only end in an ugly mess of abscesses/scar tissue/etc.

As Luke has said, the likelihood of being scripted suboxone for pain is pretty low - however, your might want to ask your doctor about switching you to temgesic, which is the marketing name of buprenorphine prescribed for chronic pain. It may be sensible to suggest this as the half-life of buprenorphine is much longer, therefore keeping the pain at bay for greater periods of time. However, I'd only suggest this if your condition is one that requires long-term pain management (which it sounds to be) as the addiction and withdrawal potential of buprenorphine (like methadone) is serious stuff

Best wishes, and stay safe!
  #16  
Old 11-10-2011, 01:56
Nuthatch Nuthatch is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolhandluke View Post
in some cases soboxone is prescribed for pain, but its not very common. you would have to go to a specialist psychiatrist who has the right licensees to keep an addict on soboxone. from there you would go through counseling and things like that.
Nickie's screwed with taking any drugs that help get off the opiates due to her heart problem, but she goes back and forth with The Thomas Recipe, to wanting to find another doctor (instead of relying on the hubby) to get more Dillies. Like any addiction, it's one controlling son of a bitch!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catseye

Hi there,

I just wanted to encourage you to try the wheel filter if injecting tablets is on the cards - the risks of shooting tablets are high, and those filters really do make a difference. Also, as theSWPK said, perhaps looking into ordering your supplies online might be an option? Re-using needles is a Bad Idea as you obviously know...it will only end in an ugly mess of abscesses/scar tissue/etc.

As Luke has said, the likelihood of being scripted suboxone for pain is pretty low - however, your might want to ask your doctor about switching you to temgesic, which is the marketing name of buprenorphine prescribed for chronic pain. It may be sensible to suggest this as the half-life of buprenorphine is much longer, therefore keeping the pain at bay for greater periods of time. However, I'd only suggest this if your condition is one that requires long-term pain management (which it sounds to be) as the addiction and withdrawal potential of buprenorphine (like methadone) is serious stuff

Best wishes, and stay safe!
Hi, Catseye, and thanks for stopping by with your advice!

Shortly after I started this thread, Nickie started buying her syringes at the local pharmacy. She called up and asked if it was legal, and if so, she wanted to know if they needed any personal information from her. They said all they needed was a photo ID to prove that she was over 18. Nickie was concerned that they were gonna photo copy it, but when she got there, all she did was ask for them, and they were handed to her without asking for ID. Her looking 18 and being carded days are long over.
  #17  
Old 11-10-2011, 03:09
coolhandluke coolhandluke is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

what heart condition do you have where its not harmful to im hydromorphone but using something like methadone or soboxone is? doesn't make a lot of sense to me but i am no doctor. another option would be going to detox and trying to get clean with your husband. trust me doing drugs leads no where good. getting clean, especially with the support and understanding of you life long lover, would be a very good option. have you thought about what if he gets clean and you cant? how long will he put up with your addiction before its too much for him and he gives you the its drugs or me ultimatum?

just a few things to think about, really glad youve stuck around this site!
  #18  
Old 12-10-2011, 06:24
Nuthatch Nuthatch is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

Nickie has atrial fibrillation and takes Sotalol for it. I read somewhere that you're a fan of drugsdotcom as well, so if you're curious about it, it fully explains the interactions with the two drugs together. Not to be a smartass or anything, but they're all so very different and that's why they have different names to them (the opiate drugs, that is). Also, check the web for the difference in the way the molecules look (wiki is good).

Methadone is obviously different, and of course that's known because not many people can get high on it (more so a sleepiness), but it's an awesome pain reliever. It's a shame, too, because Nickie swore it was the best pain reliever she ever had. She'll soon be getting an ablation to fix her heart problem, so hopefully she'll be able to take it again.

As far as getting straight is concerned, this is something Nickie's been trying to get him to do for over 15 years when she never touched the stuff, and she gave him an ultimatum as well. It doesn't do any good, and when you truly love someone, you never leave them, unless of course, they're truly hurting you. Is he truly hurting her? Intentionally? No. Naturally, both of them don't wanna see the other in pain, physically.

Taking a break from each other, sure. It's been done for other reasons, but to detox? I can't say that's ever gonna happen, but there's always hope. Nobody wants to be an addict or plans to be, as I'm sure you already know, and amazingly so, this is what she was afraid of the whole time he said, "I can help your pain. Take some medicine. I hate to see you suffer like this. Please, PLEASE take some ________." "Nickie refused, in fear she'd become an addict like him.

She actually started using a few years ago in her mid 30's while he's been doing it since he was 15 years old, now in his early 50's. That's almost 40 years addicted to opiates. It's very sad, knowing that she's been trying to save him all these years, but you know how that goes, and now she's stuck in the same rut he is. Ups and downs with one day wanting to stop, to just saying fuck it the next.

For better or for worse. He feels stronger about it than Nickie does, so I can never imagine him saying those words to her, regarding the ultimatum. He's very dedicated and loyal through his addiction. And I know that line could be picked apart in many ways due to the drugs, but I look at it differently.

Also, thank you for the kind words!
  #19  
Old 12-10-2011, 06:46
coolhandluke coolhandluke is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

i am aware of the differences of different opiate medications, be it poppy based drugs, or synthetic opiates. your taking both and i still dont get how something like methadone or soboxone would interfere with your heart condition more than dilaudid or the percocet (oxycodone with tylenol).

i think you should talk with your doctor about all the different options. i would really think methadone would be absolutely fantastic in the terms of addiction and helping with pain as well, but if it will be bad for you heart than obviously thats not an option.

another thing that comes to mind is a fentanyl patch. it lasts 3 days and is quite effective for pain relief.

it sounds like to me in addition to pain problems you also have an addiction issue. thats hard because you legitimately need to have pain killer, yet you are abusing them. so going to NA meetings could be a good idea, or seeking professional help. if you see a counselor for drug addiction they cant tell anyone else, including doctors, unless you sign a release of information form, which you would not do in this case.
  #20  
Old 12-10-2011, 08:26
catseye Gold member catseye is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

^^ I think what Nuthatch is referring to is explained in her fifth or so post - it's down to the fact that Methadone is known to interact with Sotalol, resulting in a major risk for disruption of the QT interval, which has to do with the heart's electric cycle. Buprenorphine poses some of the same risks, but at a more moderate level.

On the other hand, hydromorphone, oxycodone and fentanyl are hypotensives, which lowers blood pressure. In the general scheme of things it makes sense that given a choice between lower blood pressure and the possibility of QT interval disruption Nuthatch would be safer taking the hypotensives. It's a "lesser of two evils" kinda thing.

It will be very difficult indeed for Nickie to quit whilst her husband is bang at it, and the circumstances surrounding her use are tricky in that she requires physical pain relief that is likely to only come from opiates/oids.

I do agree with Peaches and Luke when they suggest a separation so that each person can work on their issues without the lure of the other person's use to tempt them. Two addicts in a relationship together can be each others worst enemy when it comes to quitting, as we know.
However, if separation isn't gonna happen then Nickie has to be very very strong and get to grips with her use whilst understanding the stakes are much higher for her with her health condition. Perhaps Nickie will be the catalyst for her husband to quit.

Best wishes
  #21  
Old 13-10-2011, 15:53
Nuthatch Nuthatch is offline
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

Exactly, Catseye. Thanks for helping me out here. These heart problems and the different kinds of opiates can be very difficult to explain, just as much as it is to understand them. It took me a while to understand myself. Nickie's blood pressure has always been low (90/60 is the norm for her), so imagine what it's like when she does 16-18mgs of hydromorphone. At one point, it got down to 65/55 and because the numbers are so close, its never been forgotten. So, if anyone reads this post and has low b/p as well, know that increasing your salt intake does wonders.

Nickie keeps saltines or pretzels (with salt, of course) by her bedside at all times because when people lay flat, the b/p lowers even more and it won't take long for the salt to raise your b/p. Another thing that helps is to keep your head elevated at night. Nickie uses 3 pillows underneath her head. Even if you don't think your b/p is low when laying in bed, and just assume you're sleepy because it's been a long day, I wouldn't take any chances. And especially if you dose right before bed like Nickie does, you wanna eat those salted crackers or pretzels. It just may save your life.

Luke, regarding the Fentanyl patch, Nickie got her hands on some of that back in March, and her hubby suggested to eat it. They ran out of medication and that's all they were able to get. Although it kept her from being dope sick, it wasn't a pleasant experience for her, so I don't think she'll be taking it again. Then again, if she was dope sick...probably. She's not interested in recovery. Nickie waited too many years to be able to walk again without pain, and even get out of bed to stand on her feet the same way. Yes, she abuses it, but she's learned to hide it very well.
  #22  
Old 02-11-2011, 04:18
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Re: Shooting Dilaudid IM

how have things been with you? any new developments with your medication or condition. hope all is well with you and your husband.

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